*resolved*HELP PMPS 138 w/ PANCREATITIS

Status
Not open for further replies.
I thought that on a human meter 80-120 is the normal BG range btw?
Hundreds of kitties have gone officially off the juice on this forum over the course of its existence. What was found is that if you can get a cat into the 50-80 range, the greater chance that remission will stay strong and the kitty won’t relapse. This is of course if all other things remain constant. Pancreatitis can exacerbate BG levels as can steroids or a dental problem. This is why testing regularly even when the cat is in remission is advised. 50-80 seems to be the range that works. Some kitties who go off the juice have normal BGs in the 40s.
 
We will need to convince my fiance of the need of insulin still. He's now thinking tuna had pancreatitis when he was diagnosed with diabetes because they didn't do a pancreatitis test. He now thinks that the pancreatitis is getting better so he doesn't need insulin anymore. I don't know what to think, tuna's numbers have always confused me he seemed to go towards a hypo no matter what dose I did. I'm not going to lie I'm afraid of the 50s. When he's in the 60s I start to panic. I thought that on a human meter 80-120 is the normal BG range btw?
Pancreatitis flares can cause BG to go up. How was the pancreatitis DXed without a test?

Give it a couple of days. See how his numbers are. His pre-shots are coming down. The kibble ruined his numbers yesterday.
We can then take a call on whether he needs insulin or not.

If you are not inclined to look at raw feeding at the moment, this list is not exhaustive but gives you low carb options across brands.
https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
 
Pancreatitis flares can cause BG to go up. How was the pancreatitis DXed without a test?

The Pancreatitis was DXd with a FPL test a few days ago, but tunas diabetes DX was only routine bloodwork weeks ago, that vet didn't even mention looking for a cause of the the diabetes! That's why I fired him, 4u of vetsulin and gave me a high carb dry food and no instructions on how to even inject the insulin! A quack! I wish we knew to ask for an FPL test when he was first diagnosed :(

I'm interested in raw feeding, but I am actually a vegan that will on occasion eat my chickens extra eggs. I'm not big on mass meat manufacturing and I would really hate to contribute to it, I would be more interested in finding a local meat farm but I know it can be a bit more pricey. I've been a vegan for over 15 years and haven't touched beef or chicken since but I will do it if it's better for my cats!
 
Hundreds of kitties have gone officially off the juice on this forum over the course of its existence. What was found is that if you can get a cat into the 50-80 range, the greater chance that remission will stay strong and the kitty won’t relapse. This is of course if all other things remain constant. Pancreatitis can exacerbate BG levels as can steroids or a dental problem. This is why testing regularly even when the cat is in remission is advised. 50-80 seems to be the range that works. Some kitties who go off the juice have normal BGs in the 40s.

Got it! 50-80 then after a while otj it will even out to 80-100 numbers right? I will follow the advice on this forum without a shadow of a doubt, it is my fiance who pushes the insulin that may be a bit hesitant to do so while tuna is in "normal numbers"
 
Got it! 50-80 then after a while otj it will even out to 80-100 numbers right? I will follow the advice on this forum without a shadow of a doubt, it is my fiance who pushes the insulin that may be a bit hesitant to do so while tuna is in "normal numbers"
Right. Another thing to think about - if he wasn't diabetic (regardless of reason), that kibble wouldn't have raised him up and kept him up in those "higher" blues. But some cats do decide they just dont want any more insulin! Like everyone said, my vote is drop dose as long as you can to see if you can get rid of the blues...even if that means propping him up with food in lower numbers
 
Right. Another thing to think about - if he wasn't diabetic (regardless of reason), that kibble wouldn't have raised him up and kept him up in those "higher" blues. But some cats do decide they just dont want any more insulin! Like everyone said, my vote is drop dose as long as you can to see if you can get rid of the blues...even if that means propping him up with food in lower numbers
I think I'm just fearful of hypo decision making. I've shown that I will feed if he's in the 60s out of fear. I am so scared of a hypo and right now I don't have the money for a vet if he does go south quick. Every ounce of savings I've had has gone into my cats so much so that I missed my mortgage payment. And I don't have a problem with that I'll make it back when he's better, but my ER vets here require payment before treatment and I don't have it. I'm leaving today for the first time to go to my nephew's birthday. I won't be home to monitor if we do a drop dose, I'd have to start tomorrow if he doesn't clear the blues on his own today but I am genuinely so scared.
 
I'm leaving today for the first time to go to my nephew's birthday. I won't be home to monitor if we do a drop dose, I'd have to start tomorrow if he doesn't clear the blues on his own today but I am genuinely so scared.
Give it another day and start day after tomorrow (if needed). It will give you another day's data.
Measure a drop dose like explained in post #36 above. That's the absolute minimum amount of insulin.
 
I think I'm just fearful of hypo decision making. I've shown that I will feed if he's in the 60s out of fear. I am so scared of a hypo and right now I don't have the money for a vet if he does go south quick. Every ounce of savings I've had has gone into my cats so much so that I missed my mortgage payment. And I don't have a problem with that I'll make it back when he's better, but my ER vets here require payment before treatment and I don't have it. I'm leaving today for the first time to go to my nephew's birthday. I won't be home to monitor if we do a drop dose, I'd have to start tomorrow if he doesn't clear the blues on his own today but I am genuinely so scared.
I understand!

We just had someone else in a very similar situation (@mosi_yazhi ) switch to Levemir, at these low doses the depot insulins are often better/keep BGs a bit more flat. If the ProZinc seems to be dropping him too much even at a drop dose, it might be worth checking out the supply closet here to see if maybe you can snag a Lantus or Levemir pen/vial. Often times they are free.
 
Give it another day and start day after tomorrow (if needed). It will give you another day's data.
Measure a drop dose like explained in post #36 above. That's the absolute minimum amount of insulin.
Ill do that, thank you so much Bhooma since the first day I got here you have been so wonderful, even setting up my spreadsheet, which I don't think I even thanked you for! Thank you for EVERYTHING <3
 
I understand!

We just had someone else in a very similar situation (@mosi_yazhi ) switch to Levemir, at these low doses the depot insulins are often better/keep BGs a bit more flat. If the ProZinc seems to be dropping him too much even at a drop dose, it might be worth checking out the supply closet here to see if maybe you can snag a Lantus or Levemir pen/vial. Often times they are free.
I'll check around there! I'm hoping it's just my anxiety and it won't be a problem to drop dose the prozinc since it clearly got him this far in such a short amount of time. I'm a big fan now lol! I have been spoiled these past 2 days, a type of calm that only happens when I'm not terrified of a hypo. It's gonna suck to go back to constant fight or flight! Hopefully if I need to do the drops then it'll only be for a very very short time
 
Oooh, I've been loosely following this story!

I'm sure people have mentioned it before, but have you tried applying to Diabetic Cats In Need (DCIN)? They might be able to help you get your hands on some Lantus if funds are tight right now. It might take a while, tho.

Or if you know anyone who is diabetic, they might have some Lantus or Levemir they're not using because of a recent switch in medication. (My mom WAS using Levemir and switched to a different insulin, so I 'lucked out' that way. It's worth a shot?)

I totally get the fear of giving your cat too much insulin and watching them plummet and feeling helpless about it all. The depot insulins do help soften the fall/space it out so it's not as drastic. I was afraid of the Vetsulin, even at a single drop, but the Levemir has calmed me down a bit more.
 
Oooh, I've been loosely following this story!

I'm sure people have mentioned it before, but have you tried applying to Diabetic Cats In Need (DCIN)? They might be able to help you get your hands on some Lantus if funds are tight right now. It might take a while, tho.

Or if you know anyone who is diabetic, they might have some Lantus or Levemir they're not using because of a recent switch in medication. (My mom WAS using Levemir and switched to a different insulin, so I 'lucked out' that way. It's worth a shot?)

I totally get the fear of giving your cat too much insulin and watching them plummet and feeling helpless about it all. The depot insulins do help soften the fall/space it out so it's not as drastic. I was afraid of the Vetsulin, even at a single drop, but the Levemir has calmed me down a bit more.
I applied to the DCIN but if tuna continues at this rate I probably won't need anymore insulin soon! I'd hate to waste their resources if tunas headed into remission. I'm a hover mom, and I test probably way too much, if he starts going hypo I should be able to catch it immediately, I just have super severe anxiety. Everyone here has helped me so much with that I'm indebted! And i like the prozinc I really do, I just think in all honesty that there's a good chance this was transient diabetes from Pancreatitis. He's never reacted in a predictable way to the insulin, I had no idea what was going to happen. He has amps coming up in 7 minutes, and I have 0 idea what to expect :nailbiting:
 
The drop dose was not being measured like we do it here. He was probably getting 0.10U or somewhere between a drop and 0.10U.

Let us all take a breather, revaluate tomorrow or the day after if insulin is needed, try the drop dose if it is and then consider other insulins. :)
If you're not a therapist you should be. Just seeing your text calms me down. I should probably pay you :joyful::joyful:
 
I'm interested in raw feeding, but I am actually a vegan that will on occasion eat my chickens extra eggs. I'm not big on mass meat manufacturing and I would really hate to contribute to it, I would be more interested in finding a local meat farm but I know it can be a bit more pricey. I've been a vegan for over 15 years and haven't touched beef or chicken since but I will do it if it's better for my cats!
If you're a vegan then you will understand even better why it's important to make your own food for your cats. If you think the meat industry is bad, you should dig around in the pet food industry: https://truthaboutpetfood.com/. Aside from the incredible health benefits to my cats, I feel very strongly about not putting any more money into the pockets of these global conglomerates who control what our dogs and cats eat as well as what our veterinarians tell us to feed.

Yes, locally sourced, grass fed and cage free will be more expensive. But if you're willing to forgo that, and go to the supermarket to buy meat, you can probably save yourself money. For example, my Ruby needs about 8 lbs of raw meat a month. I could go to the supermarket and get organic chicken thighs for say $5/lb (I'm guessing here at what it would cost in your area, it might be cheaper) and mince it up with a cleaver or grind it up in a food processor. That's $40 per month. Add in the cost of Alnutrin with egg shell calcium ($15/bag that makes 16 lbs of food), some liver and fish oil, so you can probably feed one cat for less than $50 per month. I would spend that much buying her a month's worth of high-end, good quality commercial food, and I think about how much money I save on vet bills if my cats are healthier as a result. Dr. Lisa Pierson has a whole thing devoted on her site to making your own food including food safety that I learned a lot from: https://catinfo.org/making-cat-food/.

That's my raw feeding speech. :) You have a lot to think about, so take it all in slowly. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Sorry, I wasn't trying to add more to your plate! Was just mentioning if the ProZinc worries you that much (based on prior threads too) there are other options. But like Bhooma said, one thing at a time.
Oh no please don't think you were my stress! My stress is all me! I have a panic disorder and health anxiety, you honestly didn't trigger it I just love the way Bhooma speaks :joyful::joyful::joyful: reminds me of an amazing friend I have that is alot like a therapist for me
 
If you're a vegan then you will understand even better why it's important to make your own food for your cats. If you think the meat industry is bad, you should dig around in the pet food industry: https://truthaboutpetfood.com/. Aside from the incredible health benefits to my cats, I feel very strongly about not putting any more money into the pockets of these global conglomerates who control what our dogs and cats eat as well as what our veterinarians tell us to feed.

Yes, locally sourced, grass fed and cage free will be more expensive. But if you're willing to forgo that, and go to the supermarket to buy meat, you can probably save yourself money. For example, my Ruby needs about 8 lbs of raw meat a month. I could go to the supermarket and get organic chicken thighs for say $5/lb (I'm guessing here at what it would cost in your area, it might be cheaper) and mince it up with a cleaver or grind it up in a food processor. That's $40 per month. Add in the cost of Alnutrin with egg shell calcium ($15/bag that makes 16 lbs of food), some liver and fish oil, so you can probably feed one cat for less than $50 per month. I would spend that much buying her a month's worth of high-end, good quality commercial food, and I think about how much money I save on vet bills if my cats are healthier as a result. Dr. Lisa Pierson has a whole thing devoted on her site to making your own food including food safety that I learned a lot from: https://catinfo.org/making-cat-food/.

That's my raw feeding speech. :) You have a lot to think about, so take it all in slowly. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
I don't know if you've heard, but I have 16 cats :eek:
 
Nice AMBG today! Does he seem to be recovered?
From which illness lol? He's never had symptoms of anything! Not even diabetes really! I took him in for what I thought was a penis infection (sorry lol) because the area was a bit discolored, he just poops weird. His diarrhea is gone he's had perfect poops! His BG seems to be staying around the 80s-100s so I assume everyone is going to want me to drop dose :')
 
From which illness lol? He's never had symptoms of anything! Not even diabetes really! I took him in for what I thought was a penis infection (sorry lol) because the area was a bit discolored, he just poops weird. His diarrhea is gone he's had perfect poops! His BG seems to be staying around the 80s-100s so I assume everyone is going to want me to drop dose :')
Lol true! No more vomiting? Glad his poop is back to normal.

As we say, you hold the syringe. It's your call, we just give advice on what seems to work for most cats. If it's too nerve wracking, let him go without insulin and just do AMBG, PMBG and mid cycle tests for a few more days. His numbers are still good!

Have you been able to check ketones just to be safe?
 
Lol true! No more vomiting? Glad his poop is back to normal.

As we say, you hold the syringe. It's your call, we just give advice on what seems to work for most cats. If it's too nerve wracking, let him go without insulin and just do AMBG, PMBG and mid cycle tests for a few more days. His numbers are still good!

Have you been able to check ketones just to be safe?
I've been checking ketones at least once a day actually and on my other cats too! All negative phew! He hasn't vomited since that one time either. Very strange huh. All the rest of my animals got over the diarrhea as well. I think my house is cursed to be honest
 
All the rest of my animals got over the diarrhea as well.
Really strange! But must be a relief!

Do you think you would be inclined to try a drop dose? Tuna's numbers are good, but a little more insulin support would give him a strong remission. The reason he was diving previously on the drop dose was probably because he was getting more than a drop.

But like @FrostD said, it is totally your decision. You can wait a few days and see if his numbers improve or you can try the drop dose (as explained in post #36 above) and see how he does on it.
Whatever you decide, we are here to support you. No pressure! (Even though we keep going on and on about the drop dose. LOL!) :-)
 
Really strange! But must be a relief!

Do you think you would be inclined to try a drop dose? Tuna's numbers are good, but a little more insulin support would give him a strong remission. The reason he was diving previously on the drop dose was probably because he was getting more than a drop.

But like @FrostD said, it is totally your decision. You can wait a few days and see if his numbers improve or you can try the drop dose (as explained in post #36 above) and see how he does on it.
Whatever you decide, we are here to support you. No pressure! (Even though we keep going on and on about the drop dose. LOL!) :)
You guys know better than I do, and I trust you! I will start the drop dose today and monitor very closely. Btw, I know to pull back on the plunger and check for blood in the syringe, how does that work for a drop?
 
So I should have my fiance stop doing it? I figured it would be close to impossible to do with a drop dose anyways :nailbiting:
My vet said the same thing when showing me, and at some point I said oh this is ridiculous I'm not going anywhere deep enough to hit a vein. So as long as he's not jabbing it straight in there as far as the needle goes you're ok!
 
Good luck with the drop dose! It's the easiest dose to measure! :)
I'm still managing a way to be very nervous about it though haha! What preshot is "safe" with a drop dose? Would you want to see something over 100 but under 150? His last PS was only 95 and since I've started letting him graze on his wet food I worry I'm testing at foodbumps! I have one reference of his "normal" BG from last year. At the vet he rang in at 147 before he was diabetic. I have to assume some of that is stress
 
My vet said the same thing when showing me, and at some point I said oh this is ridiculous I'm not going anywhere deep enough to hit a vein. So as long as he's not jabbing it straight in there as far as the needle goes you're ok!
Good luck with the drop dose! It's the easiest dose to measure! :)

I just got an 85 AMPS!!!! Should I retest?!? That's too good to be true right? He's never been that low even with food grazing??
 
Your call. You test enough imo to catch any potential issues. That said, if it were me I might skip and see how he does today and tonight and maybe try again tomorrow morning (with a maybe higher preshot lol).
Yep that's what I decided too! If he keeps his preshot in the 80s then I'll be happy to stop! I also switched him to fancy feast, a 0 carb option and I have a 1 carb one too with more protein. Maybe it's lower because he's getting less carbs? Either way I'm happy with these numbers!
 
Yep that's what I decided too! If he keeps his preshot in the 80s then I'll be happy to stop! I also switched him to fancy feast, a 0 carb option and I have a 1 carb one too with more protein. Maybe it's lower because he's getting less carbs? Either way I'm happy with these numbers!
That might be enough to do it! Will you be able to keep feeding that long term?
 
Katrina, can you do us a favor and:
- Start a new post if/when needed with a title of "Date Tuna ProZinc AMBG/AMPS <BG>". So if it's today and no shot, it would be "6/10 Tuna ProZinc AMBG 91". If you do give a shot it's AMPS instead of AMBG. If you need help, put HELP in front ("HELP - 6/10..."). Put a link to this thread in the new one so we can easily check the history.
- Change the title of this one to say "Resolved - HELP..."

This will help us figure out which threads are recent and need help first. Thanks!
 
Hi Katrina, I see you started OTJ trial, I wouldn't have known this if I didn't look at your SS

When you start a trial this is how to do it I'll start at when you started the OTJ Trial
6-10 TUNA Prozinc AMBG-87 OTJ TRIAL DAY 1/ PMBG-96
6-11 TUNA Prozinc AMBG-100 OTJ TRIAL DAY 2 /PMBG-96
6-12 TUNA Prozinc AMBG-90 OTJ TRIAL DAY 3/ PMBG- ?
6-13 TUNA Prozinc AMBG-84 OTJ TRIAL DAY 4 /PMBG- ?
6-14 TUNA Prozinc AMBG-80 OTJ TRIAL DAY 5/ PMBG-82
6-15 TUNA Prozinc AMBG-85 OTJ TRIAL DAY 6/ PMBG-

Do a post every day for each date
When you get to Day 14 and his numbers are good then he's in remission
If you do more tests after the morning and night you really don't have to put
them in the everyday posts just record them on your SS
Best of luck!
  • After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!
Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Once she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top