can anyone take a look at my spreadsheet?

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Katsallday

Katsallday

Member Since 2021
Ive had tuna on a 1u dose 2x a day for a few days now. i feel like he should have cleared any bouncing out of his system. judging by his numbers do you think its time to start trying a higher dose? its been 8 cycles since the hypo scare, and one of those cycles was 0.5u because his BG was barely 200 at preshot. any advice would be appreciated <3
 
I love Tuna's name!!

It does look like he's ready for a dose increase. Have you read the Prozinc dosing method stickies? There are two methods, Start Low, Go Slow, and Modified Prozinc Method. SLGS has increases done after 7 days and MPM has increases done after 3 days if nadirs are not consistently under 150. I would increase to 1.25u :)
 
Panic said:
I love Tuna's name!!

It does look like he's ready for a dose increase. Have you read the Prozinc dosing method stickies? There are two methods, Start Low, Go Slow, and Modified Prozinc Method. SLGS has increases done after 7 days and MPM has increases done after 3 days if nadirs are not consistently under 150. I would increase to 1.25u :)
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thank you so much! ill keep with the slgs and finish up these next two days
 
Hi Katrina, I was looking at your remarks in your spreadsheet when you put for your example +2 was actually 2.5

When you do half hours you would put in that cell or square what ever his BG is
Example
320 @+2.5. (half hour)
If you were to check 15 minutes later it would be 320 @+2.25
If 45 minutes. 320 @+2.75

Then you have to manually color the cells in
Hope you have a peaceful day :cat:
 
Something weird happened, last night's cycle was different than the rest of the days? I guess tuna heard me looking into increasing his dose and decided not to let that happen
 
Katsallday said:
Something weird happened, last night's cycle was different than the rest of the days? I guess tuna heard me looking into increasing his dose and decided not to let that happen
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Yes, our kitties often read the posts here, otherwise how would they know how to be contrary :rolleyes:?
 
:)

Stall; don't feed, test again in 30mins. If he's over 200, great, you can shoot. You might be able to shoot even if he's not over 200 on the second test, if the number is clearly rising, and he's close enough that you feel comfortable shooting. You also have the option to stall a second 30mins to be sure it's safe to shoot.

That said... I think based on his current numbers, it seems unlikely that he's going to get anywhere near 200 this time, but we'll see!
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
:)

Stall; don't feed, test again in 30mins. If he's over 200, great, you can shoot. You might be able to shoot even if he's not over 200 on the second test, if the number is clearly rising, and he's close enough that you feel comfortable shooting. You also have the option to stall a second 30mins to be sure it's safe to shoot.

That said... I think based on his current numbers, it seems unlikely that he's going to get anywhere near 200 this time, but we'll see!
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I just did a pre preshot and it read 261... What is going on inside tuna right now? I'll get the real preshot in 10 minutes. I've started pushing his eating time back so that he gets done eating right when it's time to shoot. But does that seem like a wild jump? All the way up to 261?
 
It happens, but that sure is a big change in a short time! I'm glad you're going to get another test soon; whenever you get an out-of-place number like that, it's a good idea to re-test (sometimes you get a bad strip and a wonky number).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
It happens, but that sure is a big change in a short time! I'm glad you're going to get another test soon; whenever you get an out-of-place number like that, it's a good idea to re-test (sometimes you get a bad strip and a wonky number).
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I have been crazy about testing. I think it's my panic disorder making me obsess over his BG. i feel so bad for his little ears :( it was a big raise but its definitely going up!
 
Hey guys, this is Katrina's fiance. Not sure if anyone is up, but we pushed the one unit at his normal time, 3:00 AM EDT, and his blood sugar dropped way low. He was in the 300's pretty much all day wish is somewhat high for him to not really drop at all, but than after his last shot, his numbers dropped drastically even with the same one unit of insulin. I went ahead and gave him some Karo syrup only because I know his nadir isn't until 9 and it got to 65 at 7:25AM, all EDT. Does anyone have any idea's as to why his blood sugar isn't constant with the one unit? Why does it seem to be okay, than not drop, than drop a crazy amount? Thank you for any and all responses.
 
Katsallday said:
Hey guys, this is Katrina's fiance. Not sure if anyone is up, but we pushed the one unit at his normal time, 3:00 AM EDT, and his blood sugar dropped way low. He was in the 300's pretty much all day wish is somewhat high for him to not really drop at all, but than after his last shot, his numbers dropped drastically even with the same one unit of insulin. I went ahead and gave him some Karo syrup only because I know his nadir isn't until 9 and it got to 65 at 7:25AM, all EDT. Does anyone have any idea's as to why his blood sugar isn't constant with the one unit? Why does it seem to be okay, than not drop, than drop a crazy amount? Thank you for any and all responses.
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It looks to me like he's been bouncing (blood sugar drops faster/lower than the cats body "likes", so the liver dumps sugar into the blood). So when he hit those blues yesterday, he bounced and went high. When a cat is getting regulated on insulin, it's very hard to predict and they often react differently each time to the same dose.

BUT he cleared it fast. I expect he's going to shoot sky high on you now, but keep a close eye because he'll probably break it later today/tonight. Many times the cycles where bounces "break" drop a cat even lower than they're used to...and often triggers another bounce. Over time their body gets more used to it and they stop bouncing as high/often.

I would reduce the next shot to 0.75U, provided all other safety measures are met (preshot is high enough, etc).
 
FrostD said:
It looks to me like he's been bouncing (blood sugar drops faster/lower than the cats body "likes", so the liver dumps sugar into the blood). So when he hit those blues yesterday, he bounced and went high. When a cat is getting regulated on insulin, it's very hard to predict and they often react differently each time to the same dose.

BUT he cleared it fast. I expect he's going to shoot sky high on you now, but keep a close eye because he'll probably break it later today/tonight. Many times the cycles where bounces "break" drop a cat even lower than they're used to...and often triggers another bounce. Over time their body gets more used to it and they stop bouncing as high/often.

I would reduce the next shot to 0.75U, provided all other safety measures are met (preshot is high enough, etc).
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Thank you for responding, I also gave him a little snack at 10 because it went a few points lower still after nadir and after some syrup, but we'll keep an eye on him as we always do. We're still getting used to the idea of bouncing too, so it's good to be aware he might skyrocket after this one. I guess it sucks cause periods of good blood glucose numbers kind of gives a false hope, as soon after it raises to unexpected levels.
 
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/


@JanetNJ[/USER

@Deb & Wink

@Panic

@Bandit's Mom

Since Tuna dropped to 65 twice and 63 last night shouldn't they reduce ?
They shoot at 3PM and 3AM
[B]

Hold the dose for at least a week:[/B]
[LIST]
[*]Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
[*]Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit [I]immediately.[/I]
[/LIST]
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
[LIST]
[*]If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
[*]If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
[*]If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
[/LIST]
 
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I see Tuna eats wet DM, isn't that expensive?
Most if us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pate, they are 2 or 3 % carbs
It's fine if you want to stay with the DM, just trying to save you some money:cat:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Here is the food chart.
It's also a good idea having some med and high carb food in the house instead of just giving syrup
For your hypo kit you can get the following and also look at the food chart


med and high carb food on hand in case he drops too low and you need to bring his BG up to safe numbers

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs




Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I see Tuna eats wet DM, isn't that expensive?
Most if us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pate, they are 2 or 3 % carbs
It's fine if you want to stay with the DM, just trying to save you some money:cat:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Here is the food chart.
It's also a good idea having some med and high carb food in the house instead of just giving syrup
For your hypo kit you can get the following and also look at the food chart


med and high carb food on hand in case he drops too low and you need to bring his BG up to safe numbers

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs




Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
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Hi Diane it's Katrina now! My poor fiance had to deal with all this alone, I'm so proud of him coming here for advice, thank you and frost for replying so quickly! I just got off the phone with my vet. They were very condescending with me, and told me if I keep changing things up they won't work with me, and they told me to stop BG monitoring AND TO SKIP HIS INSULIN. Guess whose looking for a new vet again!

Tuna just hit 75 so I assume he won't get to 200 in 3 hours, but I will try stalling if he's not there before just skipping a dose. We still don't have the half marked u40 syringes. My job closed down so we have like no money. I'm nervous to push that 0.75 u without the half marked syringes but it looks like I'm going to have to :')
 
Katsallday said:
Hi Diane it's Katrina now! My poor fiance had to deal with all this alone, I'm so proud of him coming here for advice, thank you and frost for replying so quickly! I just got off the phone with my vet. They were very condescending with me, and told me if I keep changing things up they won't work with me, and they told me to stop BG monitoring AND TO SKIP HIS INSULIN. Guess whose looking for a new vet again!

Tuna just hit 75 so I assume he won't get to 200 in 3 hours, but I will try stalling if he's not there before just skipping a dose. We still don't have the half marked u40 syringes. My job closed down so we have like no money. I'm nervous to push that 0.75 u without the half marked syringes but it looks like I'm going to have to :')
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Yep time to look for a new vet
 
Katsallday said:
Hi Diane it's Katrina now! My poor fiance had to deal with all this alone, I'm so proud of him coming here for advice, thank you and frost for replying so quickly! I just got off the phone with my vet. They were very condescending with me, and told me if I keep changing things up they won't work with me, and they told me to stop BG monitoring AND TO SKIP HIS INSULIN. Guess whose looking for a new vet again!

Tuna just hit 75 so I assume he won't get to 200 in 3 hours, but I will try stalling if he's not there before just skipping a dose. We still don't have the half marked u40 syringes. My job closed down so we have like no money. I'm nervous to push that 0.75 u without the half marked syringes but it looks like I'm going to have to :')
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Definitely time for a new vet!

It's not too bad to estimate, just be conservative. Even closer to 0.5U would be ok.
 
FrostD said:
Definitely time for a new vet!

It's not too bad to estimate, just be conservative. Even closer to 0.5U would be ok.
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I'll tell my fiance to aim lower than higher! I was reading up on the recent remissions in the prozinc forum. I wish tuna could be one of those cats that was on insulin for only a week or two. I know thats not what is happening here but boy am I wishing it was!
 
Katsallday said:
I'll tell my fiance to aim lower than higher! I was reading up on the recent remissions in the prozinc forum. I wish tuna could be one of those cats that was on insulin for only a week or two. I know thats not what is happening here but boy am I wishing it was!
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I hear you. I had hoped the same...and here I am at 12U!
 
Katsallday said:
I hope Mr kitty feels good! I have 16 cats and Mr kitty looks just like 6 of mine :joyful::joyful::joyful: did you catch Mr kitty's diabetes early?
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I have a soft spot for black cats! Unfortunately no, it took us a few weeks to realize he was going out of the box (dog kept eating it, ew) and the vet insisting it was behavioral or UTI.
 
FrostD said:
I have a soft spot for black cats! Unfortunately no, it took us a few weeks to realize he was going out of the box (dog kept eating it, ew) and the vet insisting it was behavioral or UTI.
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It took me about 3 weeks I think. One of my other cats had pneumonia so I was hyper focused on her and I missed tunas signs. He doesn't have ketones or dka but he is terribly overweight.
 
I'm an hour away from preshot and I'm looking at a 101 BG. Yikes. I suppose tuna won't jump up to 200 in that time, but if he did we all think that shooting 0.75u at a minimum of 200 BG is a good call right?

What if I stall and he still doesn't hit the 200 BG? Do I skip the whole cycle?
 
Katsallday said:
I'm an hour away from preshot and I'm looking at a 101 BG. Yikes. I suppose tuna won't jump up to 200 in that time, but if he did we all think that shooting 0.75u at a minimum of 200 BG is a good call right?

What if I stall and he still doesn't hit the 200 BG? Do I skip the whole cycle?
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Correct I would not shoot below 200 until there's more data.

150-200 you could try 0.25U if you can stay around t monitor and have hypo kit, but I'd lean towards skipping since you don't have the half unit markings.
 
FrostD said:
Correct I would not shoot below 200 until there's more data.

150-200 you could try 0.25U if you can stay around t monitor and have hypo kit, but I'd lean towards skipping since you don't have the half unit markings.
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FrostD said:
*remember to stall without feeding
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He is definitely only at 141, so we are going to go ahead and stall without feeding. How long do we give him until we have to feed and skip/inject?
 
You can stall up to 2 hrs generally, but that puts you off your shot schedule and you have to work your way back.

141 and 139 are really the same number, remember meters are allowed 20% variance.

I'd stall another 20 mins (that should put you at 1/2 hr I believe?) and make the decision then.
 
I'm currently at half an hour right now, his shot normally gets pushed at 3. I'll do the extra stall thank you so much
 
Katsallday said:
I'm currently at half an hour right now
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Ok is that 1 hr from AMPS? Whenever you're 1 hr from AMPS test again. If he's right around 150 you can try a very small dose and stick around to monitor, or you can skip (and still test when you can...always good to have data!). No harm in skipping, worst case he goes high for a little bit.

I really am surprised he didn't bounce again (...yet?), that's great! I doubt it but he may still bounce a bit, so that combined with a small or skipped dose don't be surprised if he goes a bit high.

Edit: feed him whenever you make the decision to skip or shoot
 
FrostD said:
Ok is that 1 hr from AMPS? Whenever you're 1 hr from AMPS test again. If he's right around 150 you can try a very small dose and stick around to monitor, or you can skip (and still test when you can...always good to have data!). No harm in skipping, worst case he goes high for a little bit.

I really am surprised he didn't bounce again (...yet?), that's great! I doubt it but he may still bounce a bit, so that combined with a small or skipped dose don't be surprised if he goes a bit high.

Edit: feed him whenever you make the decision to skip or shoot
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I'm terrified of a high number, it really freaked me out the last time the meter said "hi". I'm afraid to accurately push a 0.25. I've done a 0.5 but I think that's just easier. In my situation would you try to push a small amount or no shot?
 
FrostD said:
Ok is that 1 hr from AMPS? Whenever you're 1 hr from AMPS test again. If he's right around 150 you can try a very small dose and stick around to monitor, or you can skip (and still test when you can...always good to have data!). No harm in skipping, worst case he goes high for a little bit.

I really am surprised he didn't bounce again (...yet?), that's great! I doubt it but he may still bounce a bit, so that combined with a small or skipped dose don't be surprised if he goes a bit high.

Edit: feed him whenever you make the decision to skip or shoot
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Now it's 146. Hm. It is 1 hr and 15min past amps.
 
Katsallday said:
I'm terrified of a high number, it really freaked me out the last time the meter said "hi". I'm afraid to accurately push a 0.25. I've done a 0.5 but I think that's just easier. In my situation would you try to push a small amount or no shot?
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Remember that dropping too low is potentially much worse than being high til the next shot. No harm in being high, over time yes it would do damage, but he'll be ok til next shot.

If it were me I'd shoot my best estimate at 0.25U and monitor him
 
FrostD said:
Remember that dropping too low is potentially much worse than being high til the next shot. No harm in being high, over time yes it would do damage, but he'll be ok til next shot.

If it were me I'd shoot my best estimate at 0.25U and monitor him
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That's what I'm going to do then, thank you so much
 
Katsallday said:
Now it's 146. Hm. It is 1 hr and 15min past amps.
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He's flat without food which is good!

If he'd have dropped a bit more I'd have said skip. Sometimes you get an occasional late nadir with ProZinc (in which case he might still be dropping), which you generally would not want to shoot. Adding a shot on top of that can take them lower than usual.

You might be seeing a longer duration this cycle, meaning the insulin is still working a bit but he'll be on his way back up fairly soon.
 
No problem! I'll be off until much later. I would check him hourly if you can...he normally onsets around +2/+3, but since you're shooting a flat number it may be sooner this time. If you need help do a new post in the Main Forum and link to this one for history
 
FrostD said:
He's flat without food which is good!

If he'd have dropped a bit more I'd have said skip. Sometimes you get an occasional late nadir with ProZinc (in which case he might still be dropping), which you generally would not want to shoot. Adding a shot on top of that can take them lower than usual.

You might be seeing a longer duration this cycle, meaning the insulin is still working a bit but he'll be on his way back up fairly soon.
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I'm worried about the play time we need to get him back on his 3am and 3pm shots. I can't push the insulin my fiance does but he works late nights. He gets home at 3am and he leaves for work at 3pm. Luckily he randomly took today off! But tomorrow he leaves at 3:15 pm :/ tuna won't finish eating until 3:50 the earliest, that gives us an almost hour late shot. Can I push the shot 15 minutes up each time until I'm back on schedule or is 15 minutes too much?
 
What time did you give the shot?

With ProZinc you feed at the same time you shoot. So if you shot at 330p, it doesn't matter when he finishes eating, next shot is 330a.

Usually I'd say you can move it forward by half an hour, but given that he's doing some funky things right now 15 minutes is safest. If he's above 200 at next preshot, I'd go ahead and do half an hour.

Since your schedule needs to stay pretty set, It may help to get +11 tests if you can, that will help avoid stalling. That way you can see if he's falling, flat, or rising coming into shot time and can make a decision without stalling.
 
FrostD said:
What time did you give the shot?

With ProZinc you feed at the same time you shoot. So if you shot at 330p, it doesn't matter when he finishes eating, next shot is 330a.

Usually I'd say you can move it forward by half an hour, but given that he's doing some funky things right now 15 minutes is safest. If he's above 200 at next preshot, I'd go ahead and do half an hour.

Since your schedule needs to stay pretty set, It may help to get +11 tests if you can, that will help avoid stalling. That way you can see if he's falling, flat, or rising coming into shot time and can make a decision without stalling.
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We had to hold the shot. After eating his BG is only 153. Normally I do take his foodbump BG and it's about 20-50 points higher. Today it wasn't I'm too scared to shoot :(
 
Katsallday said:
We had to hold the shot. After eating his BG is only 153. Normally I do take his foodbump BG and it's about 20-50 points higher. Today it wasn't I'm too scared to shoot :(
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Nothing wrong with that! These lower numbers can be scary to deal with at first.

If you can, test here and there. It'll give us data on how he responds without insulin. Or, call today a break day!
 
FrostD said:
Nothing wrong with that! These lower numbers can be scary to deal with at first.

If you can, test here and there. It'll give us data on how he responds without insulin. Or, call today a break day!
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Im positive I'm going to be even more crazy than usual testing. It'll probably be hourly.
 
You
Katsallday said:
Im positive I'm going to be even more crazy than usual testing. It'll probably be hourly.
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You don't have to! With ProZinc, no shot means no insulin. So even if his numbers drop, they're dropping naturally which is a good thing. Numbers that drop without any insulin (1) mean his pancreas is still working and (2) don't require any food intervention.
 
FrostD said:
You

You don't have to! With ProZinc, no shot means no insulin. So even if his numbers drop, they're dropping naturally which is a good thing. Numbers that drop without any insulin (1) mean his pancreas is still working and (2) don't require any food intervention.
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I really hope the numbers act good today. I'd chop off my right leg if it meant tuna was off the insulin
 
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