12/5 Mauer AMPS 322, +1.5 295, +3 338, +5 302, +7 229

Sorry to hear about the vomit. It sounds like Mauer is not feeling good and that could be causing the higher numbers. I hope his stomach settles down soon. Sending prayers. :bighug:
 
SashaV said:
The 20 calorie pr pound. In kilo and grams :oops:
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Not quite sure I understand...but:
1 kilo = 1000 grams
1 kilo = 2.2 pounds
1 pound = 454 grams

So if 20 calories per pound, then it is 44 calories per kilo (or per 1000 grams). Does this help? Do you want to give me Mauer's weight and I can figure it out?
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Not quite sure I understand...but:
1 kilo = 1000 grams
1 kilo = 2.2 pounds
1 pound = 454 grams

So if 20 calories per pound, then it is 44 calories per kilo (or per 1000 grams). Does this help? Do you want to give me Mauer's weight and I can figure it out?
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7770. 7 kilos and 770 grams.
 
I'd talk to your vet about how much weight Mauer needs to lose, and get them to give you what they think her ideal weight should be.
You need to figure out how many calories you are currently feeding Mauer in a day.

https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/#Safe_Rate_of_Weight_Loss
This webpage has great info on what a safe rate of weight loss is, as well as helping you figure out how many calories to feed in order to get to an ideal weight. I can help you with any of the mathematical calculations. But I can't say how much Mauer should weigh ideally. I'd also recommend getting a baby scale so you can weigh Mauer regularly. You don't want her to lose weight too rapidly as this can cause hepatic lipidosis.
 
this is a very unusual cycle so far... Could it be a new lot of dodge strips? or did you eat a lot of nutella with your fingers right before testing? :p

Now seriously, the yellow at +1.5 is the weird one...

Hope thedays get better! :bighug:
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I'd talk to your vet about how much weight Mauer needs to lose, and get them to give you what they think her ideal weight should be.
You need to figure out how many calories you are currently feeding Mauer in a day.

https://catinfo.org/feline-obesity-an-epidemic-of-fat-cats/#Safe_Rate_of_Weight_Loss
This webpage has great info on what a safe rate of weight loss is, as well as helping you figure out how many calories to feed in order to get to an ideal weight. I can help you with any of the mathematical calculations. But I can't say how much Mauer should weigh ideally. I'd also recommend getting a baby scale so you can weigh Mauer regularly. You don't want her to lose weight too rapidly as this can cause hepatic lipidosis.
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Her ideal weight is 5.5kg. Vets word. Vet also said she really needs to lose weight so she said that normally 100g would be too much, but it's okay for Mauer.
And I do have a baby scale. I've been working on her weight since September. She only lost 300 grams.
 
So how many kilos does she need to loose?

If you have been weighing her, and with the amount you are feeding she only lost 300g for 6 months, I think we can conclude you need to give her a bit less...:)
 
ok, see if this is correct:

Mauer is curently 7.7 kg, and vet thinks she should be 5.5 kg. So she needs to loose 2.2kg?

Lyla says you should feed 44 calories per kilo. So IF she was at the right weight, she would need 44*7.7kg = 339 calories per day. However, because she needs to loose weight, you need to give her less than this. Perhaps 10% less to be a slow and safe reduction? that would be about 300 calories per day.

How many calories per gram does her food have?
 
Hercule's mum said:
So how many kilos does she need to loose?

If you have been weighing her, and with the amount you are feeding she only lost 300g for 6 months, I think we can conclude you need to give her a bit less...:)
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Very unusual cycle for her!!!
I've been trying everything, different brands, foods raw and canned. She needs to loose 3 kilos..
 
SashaV said:
Her ideal weight is 5.5kg. Vets word. Vet also said she really needs to lose weight so she said that normally 100g would be too much, but it's okay for Mauer.
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Yes, 100 grams / week is a safe rate of weight loss for Mauer. Safe rate is 1% - 2% of the cat's current body weight per week, so the amount will change. Currently Mauer, at 7700 grams, could lose up to 154 grams per week safely.

How many calories are you currently feeding Mauer? The link I gave you for Dr. Lisa Pierson's webpage suggests starting by feeding 80% of the current amount of calories that kitty is currently getting.

Or, if this is unknown, then she gives a formula to figure the required calories per day to get to the target weight:
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70
Mauer's optimal lean body weight in pounds: 5.5kg x 2.2 = 12.1 pounds
Required calories per day = [13.6 X 12.1] + 70
Required calories per day = 235 calories
 
But a lot of webpages do say cats should be fed 20 calories per pound, which is what I tought you were translating into kilos....
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Yes, 100 grams / week is a safe rate of weight loss for Mauer. Safe rate is 1% - 2% of the cat's current body weight per week, so the amount will change. Currently Mauer, at 7700 grams, could lose up to 154 grams per week safely.

How many calories are you currently feeding Mauer? The link I gave you for Dr. Lisa Pierson's webpage suggests starting by feeding 80% of the current amount of calories that kitty is currently getting.

Or, if this is unknown, then she gives a formula to figure the required calories per day to get to the target weight:
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70
Mauer's optimal lean body weight in pounds: 5.5kg x 2.2 = 12.1 pounds
Required calories per day = [13.6 X 12.1] + 70
Required calories per day = 235 calories
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I don't know how many calories she normally eats, and she doesn't normally get the same food day in and day out..
So it's 235 calories a day?
How the heck do I figure out how many calories there's in her raw food?
 
235 calories per day as a starting point, perhaps, based on using Dr. Lisa's formula.
The thing is, and she says this on her site also, cats' energy needs will vary somewhat. Some cats burn more calories than others. Some are more active. So this is also why it is crucial to regularly weigh kitty when trying to lose weight. If they are losing too quickly, you want to know this right away and increase the number of calories.

Hercule's mum said:
oops, sorry! Misunderstood what you said!
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It's okay. I've heard that, too, and in fact the 235 calories that I calculated for Mauer from the info on Dr. Lisa's site comes relatively close, just slightly below, the 20 calories/lb. :)

SashaV said:
How the heck do I figure out how many calories there's in her raw food?
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Is it homemade raw or a brand? If a brand, it should have calories somewhere on the package or if not, then look on the website and if not there, then try contacting the manufacturer.
If homemade, I figured it out for Butters by looking up the number of calories in the meat I was feeding her per ounce, plus the calories from the supplement I add to the raw meat, and doing the calculations.

What do you feed Mauer, specifically?
 
Each can lists the number of calories so just estimate whether feeding 1/8 or 1/4 at a time. It doesn’t need to be exact. I helped my friend’s cat lose weight. He was close to 20 pounds. He lost slowly. I think at his desired weight he ate 2-3 cans of fancy feast. I had a tortie that needed to lose 2 pounds. It took us a year to get there! That was a little too slow, lol.

My cats get just 3-4 oz of raw a day to stay at just under 9 pounds. That’s 135-150 calories a day.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Each can lists the number of calories so just estimate whether feeding 1/8 or 1/4 at a time. It doesn’t need to be exact. I helped my friend’s cat lose weight. He was close to 20 pounds. He lost slowly. I think at his desired weight he ate 2-3 cans of fancy feast. I had a tortie that needed to lose 2 pounds. It took us a year to get there! That was a little too slow, lol.

My cats get just 3-4 oz of raw a day to stay at just under 9 pounds. That’s 135-150 calories a day.
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Mauer get 25 grams of raw twice a day.
 
tiffmaxee said:
How many calories? Is he active? I couldn’t get Max to play.
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No, she's more lazy than I am. And that's really something!!!! :D:oops::rolleyes:
I don't know how many calories, the package doesn't say. But I have the other components so maybe I can find out?
 
SashaV said:
No, she's more lazy than I am. And that's really something!!!! :D:oops::rolleyes:
I don't know how many calories, the package doesn't say. But I have the other components so maybe I can find out?
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I’d call the company. I’m surprised it’s not listed. It’s impossible to figure out from the ingredients unfortunately.
 
From what I understand about raw feeding, you don't go by calories but rather by a percentage of the ideal weight of the cat because most raw food companies don't do nutritional analysis. To maintain a cat's weight on raw food, you feed 2-3% of its ideal weight. So if Mauer's ideal weight is 5.5 kgs, that makes it 12.13 lbs or 194 ounces, which means she should eat 5.85 ounces or 166 grams per day. Less if you want her to lose weight, more to gain.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
From what I understand about raw feeding, you don't go by calories but rather by a percentage of the ideal weight of the cat because most raw food companies don't do nutritional analysis. To maintain a cat's weight on raw food, you feed 2-3% of its ideal weight. So if Mauer's ideal weight is 5.5 kgs, that makes it 12.13 lbs or 194 ounces, which means she should eat 5.85 ounces or 166 grams per day. Less if you want her to lose weight, more to gain.
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That's my understanding too. So she get 25 grams of raw when it's shooting time :cool:
She's not eating that much, I leave out canned food for nighttime. And then she gets teaspoons of LC during the day as noted on her spreadsheet. I don't think she getting too much... but she isn't losing weight o_O
 
SashaV said:
but she isn't losing weight
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I think Sasha, this is your key information. All these recomendations are for an "average cat", so it seems like for Mauer, she needs less. Perhaps you can weight what is left behind to see what she is actually eating and the reduce by 10% and monitor her weight and see if it moves? If it starts moving to fast, increase a bit. I think this is the only way.... since ecid....
 
Hercule's mum said:
I think Sasha, this is your key information. All these recomendations are for an "average cat", so it seems like for Mauer, she needs less. Perhaps you can weight what is left behind to see what she is actually eating and the reduce by 10% and monitor her weight and see if it moves? If it starts moving to fast, increase a bit. I think this is the only way.... since ecid....
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I can't :nailbiting: Miver is eating too.
And the last few day, I've given Mauer food on her own as usual, and then given some to the both of them. Miver is not a fan of eating alone, apparently. The bowl is clean, but it's usually Miver I see eat.

Another option is to feed separately and no food for her PM cycle, and feed when I test anyway. I usually only feed myself when I test Mauer :oops: chocolate!!!!!!!:bighug:
And see what works? I made stairs for her today, so she can go out to the garden from my bedroom window.. maybe when it gets hot she'll want to be outside?
 
My civvie is like that too! But i have managed to put the bowls side by side and I keep an eyey while they are eating. They usually for <5 minutes and I pull the plates away. They come back done in an hour or two depending on BG.... It would be hard to do this at night, but perhaps you can get an idea of what she eats in the day and adjust so?

By the way how is Miver's weight? do you think you reduce a bit the offering, it is mauer that will get less ?
 
Hercule's mum said:
My civvie is like that too! But i have managed to put the bowls side by side and I keep an eyey while they are eating. They usually for <5 minutes and I pull the plates away. They come back done in an hour or two depending on BG.... It would be hard to do this at night, but perhaps you can get an idea of what she eats in the day and adjust so?

By the way how is Miver's weight? do you think you reduce a bit the offering, it is mauer that will get less ?
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Problem is, Miver doesn't eat up. He goes to and from all the time, unless it's served on the cat tree... Miver needs to lose a bit too, but not nearly as much. He's at 6.2 kilos, and he's high and loooong. And he misses his dryfood. But likes the feringa freeze dried food.
Well, Mauer usually gets her meals and then 3 or 4 teaspoons depending on her numbers. Even though she has free access to food during the night, she's still hanging out in the greens... so I don't know if I have the guts or nuts to take the food from her, in her PM cycle.
 
I'm glad you increased. Looks like Mauer was seeing as much green as you held the dose longer - one of the reasons TR says to increase the dose after a period of time.

Interesting discussion of feeding and amounts needed. Neko was in the 6.5-6.7 kg range (part Maine Coon plus acromegaly so bigger). I thought she could lose a little. Her vet didn't want her to go much lower. I fed raw food. When I fed manufactured raw, I got the calories from the pet food manufacturer. They have a calculator on their website - I selected the "lazy/inactive adult" category. :p For Mauer's ideal weight, the number of calories is 224 and weight of raw is 149 grams per their calculator. However, different proteins have different calorie values. And even within meats there is differences. For example chicken thigh is fattier and higher calorie than chicken breast. I usually fed about 125 grams per day, mostly because that's the size package they came in. And modified feeding based on weekly weigh ins.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I'm glad you increased. Looks like Mauer was seeing as much green as you held the dose longer - one of the reasons TR says to increase the dose after a period of time.

Interesting discussion of feeding and amounts needed. Neko was in the 6.5-6.7 kg range (part Maine Coon plus acromegaly so bigger). I thought she could lose a little. Her vet didn't want her to go much lower. I fed raw food. When I fed manufactured raw, I got the calories from the pet food manufacturer. They have a calculator on their website - I selected the "lazy/inactive adult" category. :p For Mauer's ideal weight, the number of calories is 224 and weight of raw is 149 grams per their calculator. However, different proteins have different calorie values. And even within meats there is differences. For example chicken thigh is fattier and higher calorie than chicken breast. I usually fed about 125 grams per day, mostly because that's the size package they came in. And modified feeding based on weekly weigh ins.
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I knew it was time, but I didn't see this coming. She haven't had a pink amps since February!!!
I hate pink. Never gonna let that happen again!

And I feed 25g twice, 50 grams in total and teaspoons of LC during the cycles. PM free feed, but it's not her who's eating. The vet actually wanted her lower. When diagnosed she was at 5.2, and that was way too little for her, vet wanted her lower. Vets here think their pouch is going to disappear with weight-loss :banghead:
Her spine was almost visible and I could feel all her bones.... the vet finally agreed with me, that 5.2 is too low...
I'd be happy below 6.5... but at 8kg she's huge. I can't justify it, it's not fair to her...
 
Wendy&Neko said:
different proteins have different calorie values. And even within meats there is differences.
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This is why raw feeders are urged to serve a variety of proteins to round out nutrients but also to balance out caloric values. I like to have some low cal, low phos, high taurine turkey thighs in rotation with fattier, vitamin B and iron rich red meats like beef or pork, for example.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
This is why raw feeders are urged to serve a variety of proteins to round out nutrients but also to balance out caloric values. I like to have some low cal, low phos, high taurine turkey thighs in rotation with fattier, vitamin B and iron rich red meats like beef or pork, for example.
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Kinda depends on which route you take. If you use 80/20 one would go around the different kinds of meat.
 
As I mentioned, I feed according to calories. I have always done this regardless of whether I'm feeding canned or raw. I personally find it much more accurate. I have a list of all of the raw meats I feed and the number of calories per ounce of meat, and the number of calories per ounce of prepared food. It's not in her ss because I went old school and wrote it into my notebook.:smuggrin: One day I'll type it into her ss.
Feeding based on number of calories seems to suit Butters because she seems to naturally want to eat less quantity of higher calorie meats and more when I'm feeding a lower calorie meat. I'll also sometimes feed her a little more or a little less depending on what she weighs in at. It's not an exact science.
 
SashaV said:
Kinda depends on which route you take. If you use 80/20 one would go around the different kinds of meat.
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I'm feeding boneless ground meats because of Ruby's CKD and the completers I use with the meats have calcium carbonate or eggshell instead of bone. I still rotate because I think that will give the greatest variety of nutrients.

Butters & Lyla said:
I feed according to calories.
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I get meats from Hare Today who has actual caloric and nutrient data for their meats, and from Raw Feeding Miami, who don't have profiles for their boneless ground. Researching calories for "raw ground turkey" brings up so many different values that I throw up my hands at the whole thing and go by weight for everything.
 
So around 220-230 calories per day to Mauer. Perhaps I should try only canned food for a few weeks? Since I don't know the calorie content of her raw food, and canned food is easier to keep tabs on.

Gosh what a day. Her behavior haven't reflected the numbers today. She's been very happy, talking, awake...
Previously when she was pink she would sleep and sleep and sleep...
If I didn't see the numbers I simply wouldn't believe it :nailbiting:
I don't ever wanna see pinks again, never. Yellow is horrible enough.

220-230 calories and I need to get back on schedule on weighing her! At least once a week.

You guys is amazing. I don't know what I'd do without you.
This morning when I saw her BG, I almost crawled back to bed to cry it out... I hope we're back on track. I'd rather shoot green than pink!
Remind me, when I get tired of shooting green, please :rolleyes::oops::p:D
 
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