29/04 Hercules AMPS 338, +4.5: 50, +10:65 Stay with the increased dose or retreat?

@tiffmaxee

The reason why I asked on marina condo how does she know Chico is done going down... is because I spent the whole day needing to go out, but unsure whether Hercs would be safe.... I finally decided to leave at +7, seemed like it would be OK. Came back at +9 and he has dropped again....

He has not been nadiring late, and I guess today can be the result of breaking a 5 cycle long bouncing... but I am more inclined to think it was the change in dose.

I guess my problem is that Hercs is still not regulated, and rarely has a "normal" cycle?
 
Hercule's mum said:
I guess my problem is that Hercs is still not regulated, and rarely has a "normal" cycle?
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I think this is it. I can rarely ever leave the house before Ruby's +6 because if there are shenanigans she gets them over with early in the cycle and I don't worry after that point. I've done enough late cycle spot checks to know this about her. From looking at Herc's SS he's not regulated and so his nadirs are unpredictable. The CGs of Kit, whose SS I shared with you before, have a similar problem with "trust issues." She doesn't have a predictable nadir.

You do need to have a life, though, so if you can't monitor him, leaving him with MC or HC or even skipping a shot is the safest thing you can do.
 
thanks Katherine. I keep telling myself I just need a "zen approach" with Hercs, and give up the notion that things will become predictable.... but anxiety always kicks in...:oops:
 
What do people think? Changed the dose this AM and he went straight down to 50. Seems like we are going right back to where we were last week. Should I reduce to 0.31 units (calipers!) or hold on to the increase?

He's probably going to bounce to the moon this PM, butI am worried about building his depot...
 
Even if it's not visible it's still there
No pattern is also a pattern.

He is so weird really...
Is he stressed? How is your days? Any outside things that could effect him? Maybe his duration is much longer than expected and usually would be?

I've found out Mauer seem to take her time to settle into a new dose, weather it's higher or lower. Sometimes a shot doesn't even have a nadir in the same cycle. I know there's a difference between Lev and lantus, but when there's rules there's exceptions...
Just my thoughts :oops:
 
I just decided to go with something in between 0.25 and 0.375. I was very tempted to see what the dose did, but we were at 0.375 just last week :eek: and he was in lime green 3 out of 8 days requiring a lot of HC, so I decided to be prudent.

The 9% carb didn't seem to do much today. I still needed to give him HC. But I'll see if the 9% and the little bit smaller dose hits the sweet spot? Fingers crossed!

p.s. He is a indoor only cat, and spend 75% of his time on my lap. But his buddy does annoy him sometimes and they chase each other around the house, but nothing to stress him, I don't think besides me poking him non stop....
 
Hercule's mum said:
I just decided to go with something in between 0.25 and 0.375. I was very tempted to see what the dose did, but we were at 0.375 just last week :eek: and he was in lime green 3 out of 8 days requiring a lot of HC, so I decided to be prudent.

The 9% carb didn't seem to do much today. I still needed to give him HC. But I'll see if the 9% and the little bit smaller dose hits the sweet spot? Fingers crossed!

p.s. He is a indoor only cat, and spend 75% of his time on my lap. But his buddy does annoy him sometimes and they chase each other around the house, but nothing to stress him, I don't think besides me poking him non stop....
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An indoor cat can be stressed..
My civvie has idiopathic cystitis, his stress goes straight to his bladder. Some is effected by furniture get moved around, others by birds outside, a new fur friend, new people in the house. I wouldn't rule it out.

What happened in February? He was nice and flat back then.
 
Hercule's mum said:
see
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it's taken awhile to get a picture of kit's pattern(s)
for hercs you could try in addition to looking for the fundamentals of onset, nadir and duration along with food impact(s)
look for a lowest low and its relationship to a highest high.
then see if you can find a pattern in that relationship.
then look for that relationship occurring multiple times.
then look at the details of the context (time on dose, time food fed, carb %, etc)​
 
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Today was overall a very nice cycle for Hercules :) If i was to answer your question about what we did with Chico and if it worked i would explain on Hercs AM cycle: today i would have fed HC food to Hercs already at +2. Maybe you could try MC at +2 but for sure HC at +3. I know it sounds completely counterintuitive but the idea is to recognize that he will drop based on difference between PS and +1 and force him to stay higher just to make sure he wont go under 50.
We are having a lot of discussions with DB abt this pattern in Chico because he wants to let Chico drop low to stay low whereas i believe that letting him drop low would only cause us to reduce again and he is just not ready for it. By “forcing” Chico to stay up he showed that he needs more insulin not less.
 
Hercule's mum said:
He had a few lime greens and per protocol I reduced the dose. I think it caused a too fast of a reduction, and we are still paying the price for it....:(
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You think so? You've seen lime on a lot less. Were everything the same in February? Food, litter, friend and their relationship, you - your mood, appointments, work, new people in your house?
 
I agree with Marina. A big drop in itself can cause a bounce, so preventing a big drop is preferable.
And the point, which Marina also caught is to stay as long as possible on a good dose, as long as it's safe. When he wants a reduction he'll get it, weather you throw honey at him.
I'm more like Marinas DB, I want her ooooooof the juice and be done with it... but it doesn't work like that. Mauer is seeing great numbers, even when I feed HC, she surfs better..
Just my thoughts again...
Onset is supposed to be +2 with lantus, but every cat is different. So I'd probably try feeding if the +1 is lower and the preshot. It wasn't yesterday, awful cycle...
 
Hercule's mum said:
@tiffmaxee

The reason why I asked on marina condo how does she know Chico is done going down... is because I spent the whole day needing to go out, but unsure whether Hercs would be safe.... I finally decided to leave at +7, seemed like it would be OK. Came back at +9 and he has dropped again....

He has not been nadiring late, and I guess today can be the result of breaking a 5 cycle long bouncing... but I am more inclined to think it was the change in dose.

I guess my problem is that Hercs is still not regulated, and rarely has a "normal" cycle?
Click to expand...
Did he go 2 hours without food before you left and remain flat.? Did you feed a little lc to keep him surfing when you left?
 
For what it's worth, he didn't earn a reduction today. Plus he might have been breaking a bounce (sixth cycle after last green), which can add extra downward momentum to the cycle.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Did he go 2 hours without food before you left and remain flat.? Did you feed a little lc to keep him surfing when you left?
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I fed him at +6, meassured at +7 and thought since he went significantl up and was +7 that he would be ok if I fed him again. So I gave him some 9% at +7 and left. So, the +9 was 2 hours after some food, yes; but also quite late in the cycle?
I cannot leave food out as the civvie will hoover it up....
 
Marina & Chico said:
i believe that letting him drop low would only cause us to reduce again and he is just not ready for it.
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I am 100% with you Marina!

SashaV said:
A big drop in itself can cause a bounce, so preventing a big drop is preferable.
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Yes. However I do not know how.... I have started feeding him 9% carbs, and yesterday I did stayed on top of him and fed at +2 and +3, but in the previous 5 days he did not drop much, and his +1 suggested activity, but nothing very dramatic... He just never responds twice the same way to my interferences! :arghh:

Wendy&Neko said:
he didn't earn a reduction today
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Indeed! But I am also not sure he had earn an increase in the AM? I am getting quite confused!
I was trying to follow the suggestion of using higher carb food, so tought that would go with higher dose, but it did still require a lot of interference and I won't be able in the next few days to measure him every hour....

It feels pretty stupid to feed him 9% when he is on the reds,
@tiffmaxee
@Bandit's Mom
@Wendy&Neko

Is that what I am supposed to be doing?
 
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