Preshot at 10.6/191 after week of pinks

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Oscar and Carrie

Oscar and Carrie

Member Since 2021
Main thread in the ProZinc forum: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/oscars-thread-bouncing-why.243823/

Morning everyone,

Oscar's numbers have been slowly creeping up over the past week. At first I thought some of the high numbers may be due to bounces from a low I might have missed, or in relation to the variety of food he was on but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Please can I have some dosage advice, does it look like he needs an increase from 0.25 to 0.5? He's on ProZinc twice a day.

Thank you
 
In my opinion, you could do some more testing in his PM cycle
25/3 seems to be a furshot perhaps?
But then in the PM cycle he has a significant drop, and you stop testing +4, and have a blue AMPS following day. That would have been very interesting to see how low he went. AMPS is usually the last thing to go down. So I think you're right, he's bouncing due to a missed low at some point.
I'd get some more PM testing in, and see if you're right.
 
SashaV said:
In my opinion, you could do some more testing in his PM cycle
25/3 seems to be a furshot perhaps?
But then in the PM cycle he has a significant drop, and you stop testing +4, and have a blue AMPS following day. That would have been very interesting to see how low he went. AMPS is usually the last thing to go down. So I think you're right, he's bouncing due to a missed low at some point.
I'd get some more PM testing in, and see if you're right.
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Thanks for the input Sasha, I'll set some alarms over the next few evenings to get a few more + 6/7s and see if I can spot what is happening.
 
Thank you for the advice. Oscar had a slightly lower PMPS than he's had recently, so I decided to keep at a dose of 0.25 for a few more days and get some more data during his PM cycle to make an informed decision.

At +5 he's at 8.1/146 which is the lowest reading I've seen in about five days. Will get a +6 and +7 to see if it keeps dropping.

May well be a case of bouncing from a low, and it actually might be a decrease he needs! Fingers crossed
 
SashaV said:
But then in the PM cycle he has a significant drop, and you stop testing +4, and have a blue AMPS following day.
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Just wanted to ask Sasha, what is generally considered a "significant" drop? So I have a better idea what to look for to know whether or not I need to keep testing or if he would be safe to leave for the night?
 
A drop of 100 points mg/dL is a significant drop, especially if it's in the beginning of the cycle.
That would be 5.5 points mmol/L, to put in in perspective for you.

100/18 = 5.5

Anything > 50% drop needs more monitoring.

That +2 (for some cats the +3) is often a good indicator of what direction your cat's BG levels are headed.
 
Deb & Wink said:
A drop of 100 points mg/dL is a significant drop, especially if it's in the beginning of the cycle.
That would be 5.5 points mmol/L, to put in in perspective for you.

100/18 = 5.5

Anything > 50% drop needs more monitoring.

That +2 (for some cats the +3) is often a good indicator of what direction your cat's BG levels are headed.
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Thanks Deb, that's useful to know, I'll keep an eye out in future for drops like that and make sure to follow up with more testing.
 
After another couple of days of high pre-shots, I've upped his dosage back to 0.5 and will monitor closely to see how he gets on with this.

Let's hope there's an improvement soon :)
 
Quick question again.

How long would it take before you would expect to see the impact of a dose increase? We're on the third day of the higher dose and so far there seems to be no improvement :(

How long should I give it before I consider another dose increase?

I know that diabetes isn't necessary easy to treat, but I just feel a bit frustrated that his progress seems to be going backwards . Is this common at the beginning?
 
That's odd......

One thing though. I'd feed less fish. Fish is not an everyday food. And if I were you, I'd feed something else than Sheba :oops:
Have you seen the UK food list?

We say treating diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. And it's true o_O
However it seems Oscar might have some glucose resistance?
With prozinc it should show by now.. You're not building up a depot, prozinc is more in and out compared to the L&L's.

Deb might have an idea about what's going on, just wanted to pop in and say hi :bighug:

Is your bottle of prozinc totally new? Been stored right? You're rolling it, not shaking? And you're not putting it back in the bottle once you've drawn it up?
It seems he got one got day out of the new vial before he just went up..
 
SashaV said:
That's odd......

One thing though. I'd feed less fish. Fish is not an everyday food. And if I were you, I'd feed something else than Sheba :oops:
Have you seen the UK food list?

We say treating diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. And it's true o_O
However it seems Oscar might have some glucose resistance?
With prozinc it should show by now.. You're not building up a depot, prozinc is more in and out compared to the L&L's.

Deb might have an idea about what's going on, just wanted to pop in and say hi :bighug:

Is your bottle of prozinc totally new? Been stored right? You're rolling it, not shaking? And you're not putting it back in the bottle once you've drawn it up?
It seems he got one got day out of the new vial before he just went up..
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Have you got any food recommendations? I picked Sheba because it was on the UK food list and he'd had it before so I knew he liked it.

The fish is just a variety of the Sheba Fine Flakes, though I can feed less of it if it's an issue.

I did consider the new vial. I'm not putting excess back in ( I squirt excess into tissue), I turn the vial upside down a few times slowly, never shake it, and it's stored inside the fridge, not the door. It did get knocked over twice unfortunately and was left on it's side overnight before I noticed in the morning. Could that have an impact on the effectiveness?
 
Oscar and Carrie said:
Have you got any food recommendations? I picked Sheba because it was on the UK food list and he'd had it before so I knew he liked it.

The fish is just a variety of the Sheba Fine Flakes, though I can feed less of it if it's an issue.

I did consider the new vial. I'm not putting excess back in ( I squirt excess into tissue), I turn the vial upside down a few times slowly, never shake it, and it's stored inside the fridge, not the door. It did get knocked over twice unfortunately and was left on it's side overnight before I noticed in the morning. Could that have an impact on the effectiveness?
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You need to roll it, not turn it upside down. Roll between your hands slowly, or not fast, but just you know, regular speed :smuggrin:

I'll find the food list in the UK for you tomorrow :bighug:

Sheba is horrible quality, some has added sugars, but when they say there's fish in, there's 4% fish... rest is byproducts :nailbiting:
It's waaaay to expensive for something so bad really..
 
SashaV said:
You need to roll it, not turn it upside down. Roll between your hands slowly, or not fast, but just you know, regular speed :smuggrin:

I'll find the food list in the UK for you tomorrow :bighug:

Sheba is horrible quality, some has added sugars, but when they say there's fish in, there's 4% fish... rest is byproducts :nailbiting:
It's waaaay to expensive for something so bad really..
Click to expand...

I've got the list saved already thank you Sasha, I thought it was the case that those foods on the list were recommended ones!

A few people have mentioned Aldi pate? That's easy enough for me to get hold of, or if any other UK members can recommend a high quality low carb food I'm happy to give it a go.
 
Oscar and Carrie said:
I've got the list saved already thank you Sasha, I thought it was the case that those foods on the list were recommended ones!

A few people have mentioned Aldi pate? That's easy enough for me to get hold of, or if any other UK members can recommend a high quality low carb food I'm happy to give it a go.
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Witch kind is your Aldi?
I'm using it myself, but some countries have different kinds.
Do you have Lidl?
Zooplus has a much to choose from, nice quality too. And it will be sent directly to your door :D
 
SashaV said:
Witch kind is your Aldi?
I'm using it myself, but some countries have different kinds.
Do you have Lidl?
Zooplus has a much to choose from, nice quality too. And it will be sent directly to your door :D
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It's called Vitacat Select, it's Aldis own brand. They don't have ingredients on their website so I'd have to nip to the shop to check it out.
Yes we do have Lidl, but it's not as convenient as I'd have to drive and Aldi is only about a 20 min walk for me. I also have a Pets at Home about 5 min walk from my apartment.
 
Hi, please can someone advise.

Oscar's preshot number has finally come down to back in the normal range for the first time in a week, and is at 10.6.

I've previously given him the lower dosages of 0.25 at a number this low before, but I'm a bit cautious of giving the higher dose of 0.5. What do people recommend? A slightly reduced dose of maybe 0.4, or go for the higher one and monitor closely?
 
Prozinc DOES need to be mixed well, as it is a product that needs to have the active part (the insulin component) mixed back into the liquid (the suspension). You don't need to shake it hard like you are making a martini or a milkshake, but you should mix it well enough each time so you don't see any of the white bits clinging to the bottom of the vial. You have to get it back into suspension.

You did fine, on giving Oscar that 0.4U dose. He needed that dose increase. Since you started the new vial, he isn't getting down into the lower blue and green BG numbers, which is where you want to see him.

11.8 times 18 = 212. Certainly high enough to dose Oscar.
 
Thanks Deb. He did okay on the 0.4 dose last night, and we have his first AMPS in the blues in over a week this morning (though I'm not celebrating yet!), so I would probably be comfortable now giving the full dose at that number.

Deb & Wink said:
You did fine, on giving Oscar that 0.4U dose. He needed that dose increase. Since you started the new vial, he isn't getting down into the lower blue and green BG numbers, which is where you want to see him.
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Could the jump in BG numbers this past 10 days be related to the new vial? I'm mixing well, and making sure it is stored and used correctly, so that seems to be the only variable that has changed. Or it is just one of those things? :banghead:
 
Oscar and Carrie said:
Thank you for the advice. Oscar had a slightly lower PMPS than he's had recently, so I decided to keep at a dose of 0.25 for a few more days and get some more data during his PM cycle to make an informed decision.

At +5 he's at 8.1/146 which is the lowest reading I've seen in about five days. Will get a +6 and +7 to see if it keeps dropping.

May well be a case of bouncing from a low, and it actually might be a decrease he needs! Fingers crossed
Click to expand...
I find a new bottle of Prozinc is a little more powerful for the first few days after opening. I think others have a similar experience. I have not used Lidl pate but I do buy food through Zooplus and they are super efficient with deliveries within 48 hours. My non-diabetic kitty gets the food I am trying to get Pabay onto and she loves the Wild Freedom food which according to Elizabeth's chart is good for diabetics too. It is full of chicken heart so as long as he is ok with poultry .........
 
Pabs&Ro said:
I find a new bottle of Prozinc is a little more powerful for the first few days after opening. I think others have a similar experience. I have not used Lidl pate but I do buy food through Zooplus and they are super efficient with deliveries within 48 hours. My non-diabetic kitty gets the food I am trying to get Pabay onto and she loves the Wild Freedom food which according to Elizabeth's chart is good for diabetics too. It is full of chicken heart so as long as he is ok with poultry .........
Click to expand...

I seem to be having the opposite with my new vial! o_O Very frustrating!

I think I've ordered from ZooPlus a long time ago, but they seem to be pretty quick. I only placed my order yesterday morning and it was dispatched last night. So hopefully arriving in the next day or two and I can switch him over to a higher quality food :)
 
I have been through: is the new vial working? I have had an occasions when a new bottle has not worked. I got so desperate going through one bottle then immediately my second and still not working. How did I know? I got a caninsulin cartridge from the vet as an emergency and used that for the next dose and his BG dropped. I would not recommend this though - I was just desperate. Moreover, this occurred in the middle of summer and any deliveries now (save for the last couple of days) should be ok in terms of temperature storage. So it can happen but I think this was a rare event when a whole delivery had got too hot.

If you get it from the vet it will have been kept at the right temperature. When drugs are delivered to the vet they have a card inside which is temperature sensitive so the vet knows if the insulin has been stored at the right temperature throughout the delivery.

Is Oscar a Main Coon or Norwegian Forest cat or??? He is beautiful.
 
Yeh I got the vial from the vets, and it was probably only out of the fridge for about 25 minutes maximum on the way home. I guess I'm just trying to find any reason for the sudden change in numbers ha, though it probably isn't as simple as that.

He's actually just a mixed breed, though I do think he must have some Norwegian Forest cat in him. He's just a lazy ball of fluff ^_^

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Oscar and Carrie said:
Could the jump in BG numbers this past 10 days be related to the new vial?
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Yes, it could be. Think about the source of your vial, and if it was stored under good conditions before you got it. Double check with your vet and tell them the new vial isn't working well at all. It's possible the vet clinic did NOT store the vial properly or there was a problem when it was shipped to them.

The short trip home would not have made a difference. People have forgot and left their vial of insulin out overnight and the insulin is fine in the morning and the BG levels come down.

One of the "Sticky" threads in the Prozinc forum, talks about storage and mixing the vial.
Sticky INSULIN CARE AND SYRINGE INFO Proper Handling and Drawing

There are several other "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc ISG (Insulin Support Group) forum.

I think you may need to increase the insulin dose again soon, to get Oscar into better BG numbers.
 
Debs is right. Do ask your vet. A number of people who should know better have said it is OK to leave prozinc out of the fridge for 24 hours. It is not. This information can be obtained on a google search and that is the wrong source for information about pro zinc. I'm sure your vet will have stored it properly but worth checking for piece of mind.
 
Thanks both,

The vet is due to review his number early next week once I've ran a curve this weekend, so I'll definitely bring that up just to clarify. I'm happy to buy a new vial just to see whether that is the culprit of these high numbers!

I agree Deb that currently, he probably does need a higher dose. Will give it the weekend, get the curve and then will up the dosage from Monday.
 
Carrie. I put Pabay onto a different insulin yesterday. I broached a bottle of pro zinc on 3.3. It is defintely working and has been stored properly. You are welcome to it. If you have a car I can meet you half way.
 
Pabs&Ro said:
Carrie. I put Pabay onto a different insulin yesterday. I broached a bottle of pro zinc on 3.3. It is defintely working and has been stored properly. You are welcome to it. If you have a car I can meet you half way.
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Thank you so much for the kind offer! Whereabouts are you based?
 
Oscar and Carrie said:
Yeh I got the vial from the vets, and it was probably only out of the fridge for about 25 minutes maximum on the way home. I guess I'm just trying to find any reason for the sudden change in numbers ha, though it probably isn't as simple as that.

He's actually just a mixed breed, though I do think he must have some Norwegian Forest cat in him. He's just a lazy ball of fluff ^_^

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Oh my Lord he is so adorable :bighug::bighug:
 
Oscar and Carrie said:
Don't let that face fool you! He's a furniture wrecker and enjoys chasing me around the house! :D
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I don't believe it lol just kidding, Tyler will also scratch on the couch , I had to cover it with a big comforter. If I try and brush him a little bit and then try to brush his sides he will attack me, so I stop and walk past him and he will chase me and bite my ankles. They are something aren't they. I wish you all the best with Oscar ♥:bighug::bighug:
 
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