? My Vet can’t regulate my cat's debetes

[Ms Leslie]

Hello,
My name is Annette and I am writing about my male cat Jackson who is 9 years old and vets are unable to get his sugars down. He is presently at the Vet Clinic and has been there since early Sat morning. Today being Monday evening (now). They’ve ruled out everything that could possibly have an impact on why he is not utilizing the insulin and have found nothing. So far this time around we are out almost 1500.00. Our cat is very sensitive and I told them that may be why his sugars are still high. He’s only ever around us and friends and he’s in a setting he’s not used too.
The you g vet we had first who diagnosed him put his insulin up to now she’s suggesting 6 units and he’s only been diagnosed since mid Feb! From what I’m reading on here, his body has not had chance to adjust to the right dosage because it was upped so many times and each time by a full unit not .25 as I’m reading on here. I’m beginning to think they’ve missed the perfect dose. I don’t understand why they can’t get his sugars down unless is it possible he is on too high a dose. He’s lost about 3 pounds now altogether. He did have ketones but they have been flushed out as he’s been on IV now for three days. Didn’t surprise me that the vet said his potassium and electrolytes are now off. Also told me today that he has fatty deposits in his blood serum/ platelets. His liver had repaired itself as seen from repeat blood work between now and in Feb when he was diagnosed. So the senior vet told me today his numbers re his liver could be off again dye to the fatty deposits in his blood. He’s 9 years old and otherwise very healthy. I have a notion to ask him if he could be overdosing him on insulin. He weights 16 pounds at last weigh in.
Can any of you give me any insight or gave any of you experienced anything like this before. They did an ultrasound on his pancreas looking for possibility of tomours, but it was clear. He said just a bit of darkened area which could be mild pancreatitis. We miss him so much and want him home. He must be so stressed in there thus long with all strangers around him.
Please if anyone has any ideas please reply to my post.
Thank you

 

[THH & Snowcrash (GA)]

What insulin is your vet giving him? What diet?

 

[Ms Leslie]

He has been on Glargine Lantus. Since he’s been there they were giving him what the Vet called “regular” fast acting only used in clinic settings because the cat has to be monitored on it. His foods are vet foods low carb diet dry and low carb diet wet. I requested a senior Vet today that I had in the past who is very knowledgeable and he is starting him today on a brand that started with H, I couldn’t make him out he said it too fast. Hope this helps!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Annette and Jackson and welcome.
I’m sorry he has been unwell.
You say the vet is starting him on a brand named H .....are you talking about the insulin or the food?
Lantus is a good insulin so I would hesitate to change him to another.
I would be looking at the food he is eating.
Do you know how many carbs are on the “low carb “ prescription food?

Are you home testing the blood glucose?
I would strongly suggest you think about doing it if you are not already doing so.
6 units for a newly diagnosed cat is a LOT of insulin to be giving. And it is a lot to be giving if you are not home testing.
If he has had ketones, you are going to have to be careful that he eats plenty of food to combat them.
I would also go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones every day once he gets home

If you start home testing and set up a spreadsheet we will be able to help you.
Keep asking lots of questions....I am sure we can help him get sorted.
Bron

 

[Christie & Maverick]

I agree with Bron. I saw low carb dry and thought...hmmm. I suspect that'd be Humulin R at the vet's to try and being down high BG levels. Any chance you can get a copy of some of the bloodwork they've run recently?

 

[Ms Leslie]

Hi Annette and Jackson and welcome.
I’m sorry he has been unwell.
You say the vet is starting him on a brand named H .....are you talking about the insulin or the food?
Lantus is a good insulin so I would hesitate to change him to another.
I would be looking at the food he is eating.
Do you know how many carbs are on the “low carb “ prescription food?

Are you home testing the blood glucose?
I would strongly suggest you think about doing it if you are not already doing so.
6 units for a newly diagnosed cat is a LOT of insulin to be giving. And it is a lot to be giving if you are not home testing.
If he has had ketones, you are going to have to be careful that he eats plenty of food to combat them.
I would also go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones every day once he gets home

If you start home testing and set up a spreadsheet we will be able to help you.
Keep asking lots of questions....I am sure we can help him get sorted.
Bron

 

[Ms Leslie]

Yes we have purchased an alpha trek to monitor his sugar but haven’t brought the strips to check his pee for ketones which we will.
Yes I can get that information from

Hi Annette and Jackson and welcome.
I’m sorry he has been unwell.
You say the vet is starting him on a brand named H .....are you talking about the insulin or the food?
Lantus is a good insulin so I would hesitate to change him to another.
I would be looking at the food he is eating.
Do you know how many carbs are on the “low carb “ prescription food?

Are you home testing the blood glucose?
I would strongly suggest you think about doing it if you are not already doing so.
6 units for a newly diagnosed cat is a LOT of insulin to be giving. And it is a lot to be giving if you are not home testing.
If he has had ketones, you are going to have to be careful that he eats plenty of food to combat them.
I would also go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones every day once he gets home

If you start home testing and set up a spreadsheet we will be able to help you.
Keep asking lots of questions....I am sure we can help him get sorted.
Bron

 

[Ms Leslie]

I can’t tell from packaging vet showed me which ones to get. The dry food is Hills Prescription Diet Multi Benefit W/D. Where can you find carb content. It doesn’t say on the bag? The wet food is

 

[Ms Leslie]

I can’t tell from packaging vet showed me which ones to get. The dry food is Hills Prescription Diet Multi Benefit W/D. Where can you find carb content. It doesn’t say on the bag? The wet food is

The other canned food is this one:

 

[JaxBenji]

I can’t tell from packaging vet showed me which ones to get. The dry food is Hills Prescription Diet Multi Benefit W/D. Where can you find carb content. It doesn’t say on the bag? The wet food is

The food manufactures don't usually post carb content - what you really want to look at is the % of carbs compared to total calories. A lot of us use Dr. Lisa's food list - https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf and there is also a helpful post about calculating carbs from one of the moderators (link here)

On Dr. Lisa's list your Purina OM food is 21% carbs while the Hill's w/d is 25%. Both of these are considered high carb food here. Low carb would be 10% or less. With that said, please don't change food if you are giving insulin until you are home testing as a change in diet has had lowered BG readings drastically in many kitties.

Hope that helps some

 

[Ms Leslie]

The other canned food is this one: View attachment 60372

Can someone tell me what is the best canned food to feed him. I know dry food is not good and guess what they told me at the vet it was okay to feed him dry because heat least will eat the dry. I’m losing my mind not knowing what to do. We pick him up from Vet in an hours time. They decided after all to put him on antibiotics to treat a bladder infection even not knowing if he has one. They are so stumped as to why his insulin is not working. Toils me to up it to 5.5 for three days then up to 6 if his readings are still high. I requested a vet internist call me so I can ask if he needs to just go slowly rather then rush him up to 6 units so quickly. I welcome any responses. So afraid jack is going to get sick again

 

[Ms Leslie]

The food manufactures don't usually post carb content - what you really want to look at is the % of carbs compared to total calories. A lot of us use Dr. Lisa's food list - https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf and there is also a helpful post about calculating carbs from one of the moderators (link here)

On Dr. Lisa's list your Purina OM food is 21% carbs while the Hill's w/d is 25%. Both of these are considered high carb food here. Low carb would be 10% or less. With that said, please don't change food if you are giving insulin until you are home testing as a change in diet has had lowered BG readings drastically in many kitties.

Hope that helps some

 

[Ms Leslie]

Thank you so much for bringing that to our attention. Why do they sell these expensive foods to pet parents when they are doing more harm than good?

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

The only dry foods low enough in carbs are Dr Elsey's Clean Protein and Young Again. If you ask, Young Again will send you a sample.

A bit of reading for you:

• Transitioning your cat from dry to wet food

As mentioned above, Dr. Lisa's food chart is the place to look for wet food. You are looking for under 10% carbs. Quite a few people here feed Fancy Feast and Friskies pates – it has to be the pates.

You can return the expensive Rx food for a refund. The company guarantees it. Wait a bit, then tell your vet clinic that your cat is refusing to eat it.

 

[SashaV]

Where are you located?

 

[Olive & Paula]

Lantus is a depot insulin and takes a few days to become established. Vet will not be able to regulate in a few days.

Do you think you can manage home testing? It is best. Human meter is fine. It will take some of the stress off your kitty, and save you some money to keep him at vet.

Did I read correctly.... The vet has him at 6 units lantus since Saturday?????

Lantus can not be increased that fast. Is this a 24/7 vet? If no one there overnight and they are giving that much, disaster waiting to happen.

@Ms Leslie are you home now? Please post before you give insulin.

 

[Ms Leslie]

Lantus is a depot insulin and takes a few days to become established. Vet will not be able to regulate in a few days.

Do you think you can manage home testing? It is best. Human meter is fine. It will take some of the stress off your kitty, and save you some money to keep him at vet.

Did I read correctly.... The vet has him at 6 units lantus since Saturday?????

Lantus can not be increased that fast. Is this a 24/7 vet? If no one there overnight and they are giving that much, disaster waiting to happen.

@Ms Leslie are you home now? Please post before you give insulin.

Yes got him home last night. He didn’t eat a not because of being on antibiotics. It has deceased his appetite even more. I did not give him 6. I stayed at 5 like he was on before hospitalization.

Where are you located?

Where are you located?

Where are you located?

I am located in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia. A small town one hour from capital Halifax.

 

[Ms Leslie]

Lantus is a depot insulin and takes a few days to become established. Vet will not be able to regulate in a few days.

Do you think you can manage home testing? It is best. Human meter is fine. It will take some of the stress off your kitty, and save you some money to keep him at vet.

Did I read correctly.... The vet has him at 6 units lantus since Saturday?????

Lantus can not be increased that fast. Is this a 24/7 vet? If no one there overnight and they are giving that much, disaster waiting to happen.

@Ms Leslie are you home now? Please post before you give insulin.

 

[Ms Leslie]

Yes we bought same Vet monitor which is alpha trek monitor. We have been testing his levels and so far have done two curves

 

[Christie & Maverick]

Hi there, Annette, waving to you from Alberta! I'm glad Jackson is home with you. If you have some test data now, it would be good to get you going with a spreadsheet, if you are up to it, I know in the beginning it can be super overwhelming, but that will help us help you going forward.

This is a good info section on how to set up a spreadsheet, as well as some details to add in your signature, so that people don't keep asking you questions like what meter are you using and what insulin?

How to create a spreadsheet

Updating your Signature

We also have a great info page as well, that can get you started.

New? How you can help us help you!

Let us know if you need help setting up the SS, there are some people who can give you a hand if you need it.

 

[Ms Leslie]

Thank you so much for the spreadsheet information. PLEASE NOTE EVERYONE THAT I HAVE HEARD FROM... I have not been able to log in for days. Every time I try it says my password needs to be reset, I send an email and then get a temporary password to get in, but there is no place to change to my own password. I have written to the help/contact us page but no one has contacted me as of yet.
WHAT I’VE FOUND OUT SO FAR....when we left the Vet, they wanted me to increase to 6 UNITS. Because Jack was not eating much, I stayed at 5 and thank GOD I did. Vet called me a day and a half after we came home, said she had spoken to a Vet Internist at work, and they decided that maybe Jack was experiencing a “Somogyi” effect of receiving too much insulin and his sugars were dropping way low and then shooting up hours later. Internist advice was to “start over” with low incremental doses which I already read on this forum and discussed with both Vets days earlier. When the Vet called, she instructed us to go back to 3 units, versus 6 and we are to stay there for one to two weeks??? Then they want to bring him back to Vet for more blood work. The antibiotics they sent us home with to continue for 10 days was discontinued due to his using culture indicating there was NO infection. They also sent us home with Potassium supplement and OMG, it is a nightmare to get it in him. He hates the taste and almost vomits, and gets himself so distraught, it is almost barbaric administering this to him. This is 1 cc every 12 hours. I so wish this could be discontinued. She said she will talk more about that on Monday, pm (April 5).

So in doing the reduction in his insulin, his appetite started to come back am and pm yesterday, but this morning he really ate well....I would say almost normal. We did the urine Ketone test and looks like there are maybe trace amounts, the colour was very light.
MY BIGGEST DILEMMA right now is finding a wet food that he will eat and love! I read that TIKI wet cat food has 0 carbs and wondered if anyone else used this. He HATES the Vet wet food and one dear soul on here told me the wet food they recommended from VET CLINIC was 23 and 25 percent carbs!!!! He’s not crazy over it anyway, so I NEED to find a wet food that he will devour. He is down to a little over 15 pounds so has lose another pound I would say over three weeks. We are to weigh him daily, periodically do spot reading, (our last one was 2 days after we brought him home and he was still on 5 units. April 1. 2021 7:50 am before being fed and insulin, then at 2:15 pm was 22.9 pm. She wants us to do the dreaded curve in about 2 weeks to see where he is at and to keep spot checking him. She also indicated this time around they would only go up .25 or .5 at a time with the insulin. He seems better to me, not sleeping as much, still seems “sad” at some times and not his normal happy self so I know he is not out of the woods yet. We are also monitoring his water intake and the number of times he pees. His water intake and pee has been decreased a lot as well.

If I do hear back from anyone, DON”T BE ALARMED if you don’t hear from me. As I said, I can’t always get on this forum, as my password is constantly messed up with no clear way to correct it.
MY BIGGEST QUESTION NOW is what do I feed him for yummy wet food that he will eat. I have tried high protein low carb food pet store (as well as the all the choices from Vet Clinic) oh and purina pate which he doesn’t like either. He’s crazy about his dry food which has been recommended by the Vet because he ate good for her while he was hospitalized and now he is on that dry food which they all told me to give to him if that is all he’ll eat. It’s called purina pro plan veterinary Diets DM. I can imagine it has carbs in it and I”m wondering if I’m shooting myself in the foot by feeding this to him but I can’t let him starve. HELP
Maybe there is a wet food that a large number of you are feeding (in common) if it is?< can someone please tell me the name. At this point in time, money isn’t important anymore, I have already spent a huge amount of money to try and get Jackson back to being well again. He is our baby and of course we will do whatever it takes! Thank you all and big hugs to you all too!

 

[Olive & Paula]

Thank you so much for the spreadsheet information. PLEASE NOTE EVERYONE THAT I HAVE HEARD FROM... I have not been able to log in for days. Every time I try it says my password needs to be reset, I send an email and then get a temporary password to get in, but there is no place to change to my own password. I have written to the help/contact us page but no one has contacted me as of yet.
WHAT I’VE FOUND OUT SO FAR....when we left the Vet, they wanted me to increase to 6 UNITS. Because Jack was not eating much, I stayed at 5 and thank GOD I did. Vet called me a day and a half after we came home, said she had spoken to a Vet Internist at work, and they decided that maybe Jack was experiencing a “Somogyi” effect of receiving too much insulin and his sugars were dropping way low and then shooting up hours later. Internist advice was to “start over” with low incremental doses which I already read on this forum and discussed with both Vets days earlier. When the Vet called, she instructed us to go back to 3 units, versus 6 and we are to stay there for one to two weeks??? Then they want to bring him back to Vet for more blood work. The antibiotics they sent us home with to continue for 10 days was discontinued due to his using culture indicating there was NO infection. They also sent us home with Potassium supplement and OMG, it is a nightmare to get it in him. He hates the taste and almost vomits, and gets himself so distraught, it is almost barbaric administering this to him. This is 1 cc every 12 hours. I so wish this could be discontinued. She said she will talk more about that on Monday, pm (April 5).

So in doing the reduction in his insulin, his appetite started to come back am and pm yesterday, but this morning he really ate well....I would say almost normal. We did the urine Ketone test and looks like there are maybe trace amounts, the colour was very light.
MY BIGGEST DILEMMA right now is finding a wet food that he will eat and love! I read that TIKI wet cat food has 0 carbs and wondered if anyone else used this. He HATES the Vet wet food and one dear soul on here told me the wet food they recommended from VET CLINIC was 23 and 25 percent carbs!!!! He’s not crazy over it anyway, so I NEED to find a wet food that he will devour. He is down to a little over 15 pounds so has lose another pound I would say over three weeks. We are to weigh him daily, periodically do spot reading, (our last one was 2 days after we brought him home and he was still on 5 units. April 1. 2021 7:50 am before being fed and insulin, then at 2:15 pm was 22.9 pm. She wants us to do the dreaded curve in about 2 weeks to see where he is at and to keep spot checking him. She also indicated this time around they would only go up .25 or .5 at a time with the insulin. He seems better to me, not sleeping as much, still seems “sad” at some times and not his normal happy self so I know he is not out of the woods yet. We are also monitoring his water intake and the number of times he pees. His water intake and pee has been decreased a lot as well.

If I do hear back from anyone, DON”T BE ALARMED if you don’t hear from me. As I said, I can’t always get on this forum, as my password is constantly messed up with no clear way to correct it.
MY BIGGEST QUESTION NOW is what do I feed him for yummy wet food that he will eat. I have tried high protein low carb food pet store (as well as the all the choices from Vet Clinic) oh and purina pate which he doesn’t like either. He’s crazy about his dry food which has been recommended by the Vet because he ate good for her while he was hospitalized and now he is on that dry food which they all told me to give to him if that is all he’ll eat. It’s called purina pro plan veterinary Diets DM. I can imagine it has carbs in it and I”m wondering if I’m shooting myself in the foot by feeding this to him but I can’t let him starve. HELP
Maybe there is a wet food that a large number of you are feeding (in common) if it is?< can someone please tell me the name. At this point in time, money isn’t important anymore, I have already spent a huge amount of money to try and get Jackson back to being well again. He is our baby and of course we will do whatever it takes! Thank you all and big hugs to you all too!

Fancy Feast Pate. Friskies pate are just fine to use. Most people use them here.

 

[Dyana]

We did the urine Ketone test and looks like there are maybe trace amounts, the colour was very light.

I would keep checking him for ketones twice a day, for a while. Trace is concerning. Try to get as much food and water into him as you can.
It will help us to help you more, when we can see your spreadsheet.
If he was low on potassium, he needs that supplement, and the vet will need to test him to make sure it is helping him. There are more than one brand or type of potassium supplements. My cat hated it too. We started with RenalKare and then switched to Tumil-K. Maybe tell your vet about the struggles and she can help you sort it out.

 

[Ms Leslie]

Hi there, Annette, waving to you from Alberta! I'm glad Jackson is home with you. If you have some test data now, it would be good to get you going with a spreadsheet, if you are up to it, I know in the beginning it can be super overwhelming, but that will help us help you going forward.

This is a good info section on how to set up a spreadsheet, as well as some details to add in your signature, so that people don't keep asking you questions like what meter are you using and what insulin?

How to create a spreadsheet

Updating your Signature

We also have a great info page as well, that can get you started.

New? How you can help us help you!

Let us know if you need help setting up the SS, there are some people who can give you a hand if you need it.

Thank you so much for the spreadsheet information. PLEASE NOTE EVERYONE THAT I HAVE HEARD FROM... I have not been able to log in for days. Every time I try it says my password needs to be reset, I send an email and then get a temporary password to get in, but there is no place to change to my own password. I have written to the help/contact us page but no one has contacted me as of yet.
WHAT I’VE FOUND OUT SO FAR....when we left the Vet, they wanted me to increase to 6 UNITS. Because Jack was not eating much, I stayed at 5 and thank GOD I did. Vet called me a day and a half after we came home, said she had spoken to a Vet Internist at work, and they decided that maybe Jack was experiencing a “Somogyi” effect of receiving too much insulin and his sugars were dropping way low and then shooting up hours later. Internist advice was to “start over” with low incremental doses which I already read on this forum and discussed with both Vets days earlier. When the Vet called, she instructed us to go back to 3 units, versus 6 and we are to stay there for one to two weeks??? Then they want to bring him back to Vet for more blood work. The antibiotics they sent us home with to continue for 10 days was discontinued due to his using culture indicating there was NO infection. They also sent us home with Potassium supplement and OMG, it is a nightmare to get it in him. He hates the taste and almost vomits, and gets himself so distraught, it is almost barbaric administering this to him. This is 1 cc every 12 hours. I so wish this could be discontinued. She said she will talk more about that on Monday, pm (April 5).

So in doing the reduction in his insulin, his appetite started to come back am and pm yesterday, but this morning he really ate well....I would say almost normal. We did the urine Ketone test and looks like there are maybe trace amounts, the colour was very light.
MY BIGGEST DILEMMA right now is finding a wet food that he will eat and love! I read that TIKI wet cat food has 0 carbs and wondered if anyone else used this. He HATES the Vet wet food and one dear soul on here told me the wet food they recommended from VET CLINIC was 23 and 25 percent carbs!!!! He’s not crazy over it anyway, so I NEED to find a wet food that he will devour. He is down to a little over 15 pounds so has lose another pound I would say over three weeks. We are to weigh him daily, periodically do spot reading, (our last one was 2 days after we brought him home and he was still on 5 units. April 1. 2021 7:50 am before being fed and insulin, then at 2:15 pm was 22.9 pm. She wants us to do the dreaded curve in about 2 weeks to see where he is at and to keep spot checking him. She also indicated this time around they would only go up .25 or .5 at a time with the insulin. He seems better to me, not sleeping as much, still seems “sad” at some times and not his normal happy self so I know he is not out of the woods yet. We are also monitoring his water intake and the number of times he pees. His water intake and pee has been decreased a lot as well.

If I do hear back from anyone, DON”T BE ALARMED if you don’t hear from me. As I said, I can’t always get on this forum, as my password is constantly messed up with no clear way to correct it.
MY BIGGEST QUESTION NOW is what do I feed him for yummy wet food that he will eat. I have tried high protein low carb food pet store (as well as the all the choices from Vet Clinic) oh and purina pate which he doesn’t like either. He’s crazy about his dry food which has been recommended by the Vet because he ate good for her while he was hospitalized and now he is on that dry food which they all told me to give to him if that is all he’ll eat. It’s called purina pro plan veterinary Diets DM. I can imagine it has carbs in it and I”m wondering if I’m shooting myself in the foot by feeding this to him but I can’t let him starve. HELP
Maybe there is a wet food that a large number of you are feeding (in common) if it is?< can someone please tell me the name. At this point in time, money isn’t important anymore, I have already spent a huge amount of money to try and get Jackson back to being well again. He is our baby and of course we will do whatever it takes! Thank you all and big hugs to you all too!

I would keep checking him for ketones twice a day, for a while. Trace is concerning. Try to get as much food and water into him as you can.
It will help us to help you more, when we can see your spreadsheet.
If he was low on potassium, he needs that supplement, and the vet will need to test him to make sure it is helping him. There are more than one brand or type of potassium supplements. My cat hated it too. We started with RenalKare and then switched to Tumil-K. Maybe tell your vet about the struggles and she can help you sort it out.

 

[Ms Leslie]

Thank you Dyana. That is good to know. Yes can check him twice a day for ketones. Thank you

 

[Ms Leslie]

Fancy Feast Pate. Friskies pate are just fine to use. Most people use them here.

He won’t eat either of these. Did eat Dr. Elseys salmon wet food today. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Ms Leslie]

The only dry foods low enough in carbs are Dr Elsey's Clean Protein and Young Again. If you ask, Young Again will send you a sample.

A bit of reading for you:

• Transitioning your cat from dry to wet food

As mentioned above, Dr. Lisa's food chart is the place to look for wet food. You are looking for under 10% carbs. Quite a few people here feed Fancy Feast and Friskies pates – it has to be the pates.

You can return the expensive Rx food for a refund. The company guarantees it. Wait a bit, then tell your vet clinic that your cat is refusing to eat it.

Thank you for all the tips and readings. Thank you Annette

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Waving from Ontario.