3/23 Pearl PMPS 128, +2 149, +3 143 Pred induced

Margaret and Pearl (GA)

Margaret and Pearl (GA)

Member Since 2020
Good morning! And we are starting the day kissing some sharks, but just little butterfly kisses thankfully. In true Pearl form, just when I had decided we would try the reduction - after 14 cycles in normal numbers according to TR protocol - and right now this would have been cycle 14, she decides to take the wheel and get the reduction her own way.

I hope all your kitties surf, and surf safely, today.

Yesterday's post: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/3-22-pearl-pmps-80-2-66-3-57.245082/#post-2765251
 
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JaxBenji said:
these kitties are always in charge (as if we have ever forgotten :joyful:).

Congrats on the reduction :bighug:

BTW on the probiotic front, I've seen Wendy say she has used Visbiome for her IBD kitties (here's an old post from her - just one I could find quickly) - perhaps you've already considered it (I know nothing about it) but just thought I'd mention it :bighug:
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I am so always on the fence about Visbiome. I have it in my fridge. It is dairy based, so has a sour milk smell. And I never have full confidence in it. But once the girls are more stable I should try it again. I always get worried the dairy base is going to make things worse. Supposed to be fantastic for IBD in cats, but I don't know if that has been the case with my current fur kids.

Whisper (black cat in pic with Pearl, looks like Jax actually) did take Visbiome, and I do believe it helped her at the time. But I was just learning about so many things when she was so sick.

Thanks for the advice Susanne!
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Good morning! And we are starting the day kissing some sharks, but just little butterfly kisses thankfully. In true Pearl form, just when I had decided we would try the reduction - after 14 cycles in normal numbers according to TR protocol - and right now this would have been cycle 14, she decides to take the wheel and get the reduction her own way.

I hope all your kitties surf, and surf safely, today.

Yesterday's post: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/3-22-pearl-pmps-80-2-66-3-57.245082/#post-2765251
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Congratulations on reduction!
When Pearl reached 48, did you do anything at that time to raise level or did you leave it be and just do the following hour test?
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
Congratulations on reduction!
When Pearl reached 48, did you do anything at that time to raise level or did you leave it be and just do the following hour test?
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Oh always need to feed some higher carb food when she gets low like that! Pearl is incredibly carb sensitive so higher carb for her is 13% but I think for most cats it's about 20%! I include in my spreadsheet when I feed so I can keep track of it all. She is very predictable so I knew that 3 tsp of her 13% would be enough to keep her afloat, and I tested about 45 minutes later. But in general, I test at 30 min (I just lost track of time today, and she has been very crabby lately when I prick her). But I have TONS of data on Pearl to know what she is likely to do. I would definitely tell anyone without as much data to test every 30 min for sure for a few hours.
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Oh always need to feed some higher carb food when she gets low like that! Pearl is incredibly carb sensitive so higher carb for her is 13% but I think for most cats it's about 20%! I include in my spreadsheet when I feed so I can keep track of it all. She is very predictable so I knew that 3 tsp of her 13% would be enough to keep her afloat, and I tested about 45 minutes later. But in general, I test at 30 min (I just lost track of time today, and she has been very crabby lately when I prick her). But I have TONS of data on Pearl to know what she is likely to do. I would definitely tell anyone without as much data to test at 30 min for sure for a few hours.
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I am not sure if Mouzer will respond to mc, hc, honey or karo ... this due to that he did not respond in 2017, so I cannot be sure he will this time, even though I do hope if it came to it, he would respond...
So, if I get a low like 48, would I feed the mc and maybe test in 20 minutes? And say the mc did nothing, would I then do hc and test in 20 minutes? And say then the hc did nothing hahaha how much honey or karo do we add to hc to see if it would do something?
I am asking because you seem experienced enough to provide this information and in case I was in a position either not to be able to get here to the board or if nobody is here to help me when I get to the board, maybe I can feel calmer in how to go about this until I did get help :)

P.S. And both kitties are beautiful - which one is Pearl?
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
I am not sure if Mouzer will respond to mc, hc, honey or karo ... this due to that he did not respond in 2017, so I cannot be sure he will this time, even though I do hope if it came to it, he would respond...
So, if I get a low like 48, would I feed the mc and maybe test in 20 minutes? And say the mc did nothing, would I then do hc and test in 20 minutes? And say then the hc did nothing hahaha how much honey or karo do we add to hc to see if it would do something?
I am asking because you seem experienced enough to provide this information and in case I was in a position either not to be able to get here to the board or if nobody is here to help me when I get to the board, maybe I can feel calmer in how to go about this until I did get help :)

P.S. And both kitties are beautiful - which one is Pearl?
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Hi :) First, some questions. What percent carb is Mouzer's usual food? And how do you stop drops in general, do you use a higher carb food to do that? If so, what carb percent? When you say he didn't respond in 2017, do you mean his numbers kept falling despite food intervention? If so, what percent carb were you giving at that time, or how much syrup? Also, in general how often do you feed him? How many mini meals per cycle and when?

I think in general, my specific answers to your question about going under 50 will depend on some answers to my questions above - his normal carb percent diet, and what went wrong in 2017. In general, most cats will need HC food when they go below 50 to turn them around - think 20% or more carb percent. You can try 1-2 tsp, then test in 20 min, then add more of that when you see how his BG is affected. The syrup or honey will also work, you can try a little bit (have some way to measure it, maybe a few drops) on his gums and test in 20 min.

In general you will find your way forward with those 20 min tests. And good for you to be thinking ahead - totally different ballgame from 2017 potentially. I will write more when I get some answers to those questions. I am just a bit of a different situation than most people with Pearl being so carb sensitive. She is the Siamese :)
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Hi :) First, some questions. What percent carb is Mouzer's usual food? And how do you stop drops in general, do you use a higher carb food to do that? If so, what carb percent? When you say he didn't respond in 2017, do you mean his numbers kept falling despite food intervention? If so, what percent carb were you giving at that time, or how much syrup? Also, in general how often do you feed him? How many mini meals per cycle and when?

I think in general, my specific answers to your question about going under 50 will depend on some answers to my questions above - his normal carb percent diet, and what went wrong in 2017. In general, most cats will need HC food when they go below 50 to turn them around - think 20% or more carb percent. You can try 1-2 tsp, then test in 20 min, then add more of that when you see how his BG is affected. The syrup or honey will also work, you can try a little bit (have some way to measure it, maybe a few drops) on his gums and test in 20 min.

In general you will find your way forward with those 20 min tests. And good for you to be thinking ahead - totally different ballgame from 2017 potentially. I will write more when I get some answers to those questions. I am just a bit of a different situation than most people with Pearl being so carb sensitive. She is the Siamese :)
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In 2017 it was decided that perhaps because Mouzer has steroid induced diabetes, is why those things did not impact him...
But it is stated that this does not mean that would happen a next time.
And I am not the pessimist but I am the type who will keep both spectrums in mind - optimist and pessimist -
So, that does not mean it could happen the next time but it also does not mean it wont happen the next time :D
I am just having to forget about it and hope it does not come to having to find out but I guess I will find out if it does come to it again.

What I had on for food was FF lc 3%, FF mc 15% and FF HC 20%.
Mouzer eats small meals throughout the day and I leave out canned food for the night.
I will have to go back to the 2017 SS and gather what was done at that time.

Also, there was a time during that time that I freaked out because Mouzer's numbers were not going up and I irrationally gave him a teaspoon of honey in some HC juice and followed up with rubbing honey all in his mouth And I sat waiting, rather scared that I did the wrong thing and expecting it to show and then I would have to tell Marje and Jill what I irrationally did lol BUT nothing happened at all :D

I was lucky that Mouzer did not go real low and off the top of my head, I dont think he went out of the 40's, I would have to look.
That is the only incident and Mouzer went into remission, so I am starting over as he has come out of remission.

Without digging up what was done then, I was hoping for information on what is generally done, so that I would know how to take action by myself it I had to, treating this as if Mouzer would respond to what is done.
 
Gosh, I didn't realize this morning that Pearl was doing her own dipsy doodle while Ruby was doing hers. These cats keep us on our toes! Congrats on the reducie, sorry she made you work for it though. ;)
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
In 2017 it was decided that perhaps because Mouzer has steroid induced diabetes, is why those things did not impact him...

What I had on for food was FF lc 3%, FF mc 15% and FF HC 20%.
Mouzer eats small meals throughout the day and I leave out canned food for the night.
I will have to go back to the 2017 SS and gather what was done at that time.

Also, there was a time during that time that I freaked out because Mouzer's numbers were not going up and I irrationally gave him a teaspoon of honey in some HC juice and followed up with rubbing honey all in his mouth And I sat waiting, rather scared that I did the wrong thing and expecting it to show and then I would have to tell Marje and Jill what I irrationally did lol BUT nothing happened at all :D

I was lucky that Mouzer did not go real low and off the top of my head, I dont think he went out of the 40's, I would have to look.
That is the only incident and Mouzer went into remission, so I am starting over as he has come out of remission.
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Hi Cherryl! Ok, so when you say Mouzer didn't respond to the HC, you mean he kept getting lower or just didn't rise a lot? I think in your case, when he goes below 50, you need to give 1-2 tsp HC food, and test in 20 min. If no response, another 1-2 tsp, another test in 20 min. After a few of these, you will see how much food is required to get him to start coming up. BUT if he is LOWERING, you need to increase the amounts you are giving each time. You can also add in the honey or syrup I think, if you want to have a plan in place. Hopefully whenever this happens for you, you'll be able to post and get input. I hope Mouzer isn't the kind of cat who bottoms out at super low numbers either.

Is he still on steroids? Prednisolone? How much is his dose and what is he on for? Pearl is also on Pred (for asthma), but I have weaned her down to every few days at this point.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Gosh, I didn't realize this morning that Pearl was doing her own dipsy doodle while Ruby was doing hers. These cats keep us on our toes! Congrats on the reducie, sorry she made you work for it though. ;)
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Oh yes I wasn't expecting this today, not with her diarrhea episodes. I am glad though. WE got up to 3 units at her highest, now we are at 2 and this is reduction #4 I can hardly beleive it. I hope she can keep on going! How is Ruby tonight? Pearl had some Pred so now she is pretty high (for Pearl, still blue) but tooo high for having Pred and I'm still not sure if we have a Pancreatitis episode starting.
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Oh yes I wasn't expecting this today, not with her diarrhea episodes. I am glad though. WE got up to 3 units at her highest, now we are at 2 and this is reduction #4 I can hardly beleive it. I hope she can keep on going! How is Ruby tonight? Pearl had some Pred so now she is pretty high (for Pearl, still blue) but tooo high for having Pred and I'm still not sure if we have a Pancreatitis episode starting.
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I hope Pearl can keep the pancreatitis at bay. Ruby's acting a little weird. We had two blue preshots today so our green streak is over. Tomorrow will be another day. Have a great night, Margaret! :bighug:
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
I hope Pearl can keep the pancreatitis at bay. Ruby's acting a little weird. We had two blue preshots today so our green streak is over. Tomorrow will be another day. Have a great night, Margaret! :bighug:
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Yeah, I know what you mean...weird. Pearl's Pred should have been a blip on the screen for a few hours, and that is NOT what we got today. Maybe Ruby has another poop on the way??
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Yeah, I know what you mean...weird. Pearl's Pred should have been a blip on the screen for a few hours, and that is NOT what we got today. Maybe Ruby has another poop on the way??
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Could be. I started her on Visbiome today. Added ¼ cap to her AM and PM shot meals so she might be feeling it now. We shall find out!
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Hi Cherryl! Ok, so when you say Mouzer didn't respond to the HC, you mean he kept getting lower or just didn't rise a lot? I think in your case, when he goes below 50, you need to give 1-2 tsp HC food, and test in 20 min. If no response, another 1-2 tsp, another test in 20 min. After a few of these, you will see how much food is required to get him to start coming up. BUT if he is LOWERING, you need to increase the amounts you are giving each time. You can also add in the honey or syrup I think, if you want to have a plan in place. Hopefully whenever this happens for you, you'll be able to post and get input. I hope Mouzer isn't the kind of cat who bottoms out at super low numbers either.

Is he still on steroids? Prednisolone? How much is his dose and what is he on for? Pearl is also on Pred (for asthma), but I have weaned her down to every few days at this point.
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Mouzer remained same and did not go lower. I was relieved lol I do not want to see anything very low.
Thank you for that information. I am going to save it to have on hand.
Mouzer does not take any medications.

He had feline stomatitis and the vet gave the steroid shots but then he acquired diabetes.
I had a specialist who has tended to another one of my stomatitis kitties to extract all of Mouzer's teeth.
He has not had any stomatitis flare ups except one in 2017, which because the pet dentist knows that Mouzer cannot have steroids, he gave covenia as what he said was our only other option. Luckily that did the trick and Mouzer has not had any more stomatitis flare ups.

I was just trying to figure out how you all know how much HC to give at a time and if a need for honey, how much to put in the food at a time. Because me over here will go in freak out mode and do stupid stuff like over doing all of it -- I just want my head put together now, so I will know how much of what to give -- If mc or hc or honey too, how to know how much and which one.
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
I was just trying to figure out how you all know how much HC to give at a time and if a need for honey, how much to put in the food at a time. Because me over here will go in freak out mode and do stupid stuff like over doing all of it -- I just want my head put together now, so I will know how much of what to give -- If mc or hc or honey too, how to know how much and which one.
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Hi Cherryl,

In a nutshell:

MC for numbers in the 50s
HC or honey/Karo for numbers below 49
1 tsp at a time to keep the cat hungry until it's in numbers above 60 consistently for two hours. Test every 30 minutes until you know the cat is safe.

Hope this is clear!
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi Cherryl,

In a nutshell:

MC for numbers in the 50s
HC or honey/Karo for numbers below 49
1 tsp at a time to keep the cat hungry until it's in numbers above 60 consistently for two hours. Test every 30 minutes until you know the cat is safe.

Hope this is clear!
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Thank You! That is clear and concise, perfect!
Looks almost like a recipe :D
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
Well thank you for that :D
Over doing sugar liquor lolol is ok :D
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Keep in mind food is always better than sugar or syrup, which does not last very long in the system and shows up in the BG reading as a spike. Only use sugar if you don't have HC available or your cat has a sensitive stomach and can't handle high carb foods. It's a last resort.

Sorry for continuing this condo! Let's move on to today's!
 
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