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Norma Fraiser

Member Since 2021
Hi I have a Sugar baby Gracie who was diagnosed Dec 31, 2020 and the Vet put her on Vetsulin. 5 days ago I saw a new Vet and we switched to Prozinc. It seems like her numbers are higher on Prozinc and am wondering what am doing wrong. I have a spreadsheet but, do not know how to post it here.
 
Great job!!

Glad to see you over here from the Facebook group too!

As we discussed in the group, it's important for you to get at least a "before bed" test on the PM cycle too. Most cats go lower at night so it's important to know if Gracie is one of them.

The switch to ProZinc is very recent too so give it some time. Here's some "New to the group" information for you and some more in depth ProZinc dosing methods

There's a LOT of information so don't try to understand it all at once!
 
Welcome! I wouldn't necessarily say that, it looks like she's doing about the same. Keep in mind ProZinc works a bit differently than Vetsulin, so it'll take some time to adjust the dose safely and bring her numbers down.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Great job!!

Glad to see you over here from the Facebook group too!

As we discussed in the group, it's important for you to get at least a "before bed" test on the PM cycle too. Most cats go lower at night so it's important to know if Gracie is one of them.

The switch to ProZinc is very recent too so give it some time. Here's some "New to the group" information for you and some more in depth ProZinc dosing methods

There's a LOT of information so don't try to understand it all at once!
Click to expand...
Thanks Chris for everything. Much appreciated.
 
FrostD said:
Welcome! I wouldn't necessarily say that, it looks like she's doing about the same. Keep in mind ProZinc works a bit differently than Vetsulin, so it'll take some time to adjust the dose safely and bring her numbers down.
Click to expand...
I got my highest number this afternoon that she has had in awhile. Scared me.
 
Dropping from 345 to 229 in 2 hours is a pretty quick drop. I'll be interested to see the +4.

Dropping too low, too fast or into numbers that the cat's body isn't used to anymore can cause "bouncing". The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring it back up fast. In cases where they drop too low (under 50 on a human meter), those sugars and hormones are good things....they can save a cat's life....but when it's due to the liver perceiving an emergency (without any real emergency), it can be very frustrating.

All you can really do is keep getting her down into normal numbers as much as possible and hope the liver re-learns that it's OK to be there again and stops over-reacting
 
The high numbers aren't necessarily something to be scared about, they'll come down over time. The main thing we worry about with high numbers is ketones, but to get ketones you also need inappetence and an infection/inflammation.

High numbers just make them feel like crap, and usually drink and pee a lot.

It's the low (hypo) numbers that are scary.
 
Yes, I've read it several times and keep it up on a tab on my computer. Gracie's numbers are coming down. I got a 191 reading +2 last night and a 191 at +3 this morning. She seems sleepy.
 
FrostD said:
The high numbers aren't necessarily something to be scared about, they'll come down over time. The main thing we worry about with high numbers is ketones, but to get ketones you also need inappetence and an infection/inflammation.

High numbers just make them feel like crap, and usually drink and pee a lot.

It's the low (hypo) numbers that are scary.
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She has had a couple of numbers under 200 just in the last 12 hours and she seems sleepy for sure. Must be the lower numbers doing this.
 
Ah, I see...so there's another forum here at FDMB for folks who are using Prozinc...

and here's the info that's posted there about how to determine which dosing method would work best for you:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

You may want to take a look at the other posts on the Prozinc forum and then jump right in :) At least you'll be with lots of other people who are in the same boat as you are - it's nice to have people who understand what you're going thru and the issues you're dealing with.

I found one of the most helpful things for me in the early days was just to read other people's posts and look at their spreadsheets to see what they did and why...food tips and tricks and general chit chat about diabetic kitties on Prozinc.

:)
 
Sue and Luci said:
Ah, I see...so there's another forum here at FDMB for folks who are using Prozinc...

and here's the info that's posted there about how to determine which dosing method would work best for you:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

You may want to take a look at the other posts on the Prozinc forum and then jump right in :) At least you'll be with lots of other people who are in the same boat as you are - it's nice to have people who understand what you're going thru and the issues you're dealing with.

I found one of the most helpful things for me in the early days was just to read other people's posts and look at their spreadsheets to see what they did and why...food tips and tricks and general chit chat about diabetic kitties on Prozinc.

:)
Click to expand...
My girl hasnt' been on Prozinc long. We had her on Vetsulin for over two months. I read the dosing methods. I have been feeding the low carb kibble trying to get her eating canned food because I want a chance at remission for her but, honestly after 3 months I have made little progress. I am stumped.
 
Any chance you could get her to eat raw food? I've just recently transitioned my Luci to raw - she's fascinated with the FoodFurLife that I purchase to mix with it...she loves it!
https://www.foodfurlife.com/#/

Also, I've had good luck with sprinkling Forte Flora over her food when she's feeling picky...and lately I've switched to this flavor topper:
https://www.chewy.com/dr-tims-flavor-booster-genuine-freeze/dp/105062

and Sometimes we sprinkle freeze dried salmon or chicken over her wet food...that helped too.

I sprinkle over a variety of low to zero carb canned foods like Friskie's pate, Fancy Feast and a store brand of 0 carb pate. I was so upset about Luci's diagnosis that I actually threw out all her kibble - I didn't realize that she might have been addicted to it...she seemed to realize that there wasn't going to be any more kibble because all she ever found in her dish from that day forward was wet food...it was sink or swim...she ate the wet food ... hate to say it, but there weren't any other options (at least not in the house)...I never bought kibble again until a vet sold me a bag of DM - I was a fool and believed him - and then I read the ingredients with a magnifying glass when I got home and saw all the crap in there - corn and fillers...OMG! What a waste of money...so they got me that time too...I donated that food...
 
Sue and Luci said:
Any chance you could get her to eat raw food? I've just recently transitioned my Luci to raw - she's fascinated with the FoodFurLife that I purchase to mix with it...she loves it!
https://www.foodfurlife.com/#/

Also, I've had good luck with sprinkling Forte Flora over her food when she's feeling picky...and lately I've switched to this flavor topper:
https://www.chewy.com/dr-tims-flavor-booster-genuine-freeze/dp/105062

and Sometimes we sprinkle freeze dried salmon or chicken over her wet food...that helped too.

I sprinkle over a variety of low to zero carb canned foods like Friskie's pate, Fancy Feast and a store brand of 0 carb pate. I was so upset about Luci's diagnosis that I actually threw out all her kibble - I didn't realize that she might have been addicted to it...she seemed to realize that there wasn't going to be any more kibble because all she ever found in her dish from that day forward was wet food...it was sink or swim...she ate the wet food ... hate to say it, but there weren't any other options (at least not in the house)...I never bought kibble again until a vet sold me a bag of DM - I was a fool and believed him - and then I read the ingredients with a magnifying glass when I got home and saw all the crap in there - corn and fillers...OMG! What a waste of money...so they got me that time too...I donated that food...
Click to expand...
I have tried all the toppers.She just licks them off and quits eating it. Since my girl lost so much weight she has to eat something so, at least there are two kibbles this group likes and she is on one of them. I really can t afford raw on disability. I have 6 cats and 1 dog and I would want them all to have the same benefit. Just too expensive. Nice idea though.
 
Norma Fraiser said:
Chris, Do you think Gracie needs more than 1 U of Insulin since her numbers were down in the pm hours?
Click to expand...
Chris, I did a curve yesterday and wondered if I should increase Gracie's Prozinc a bit or leave it where it is I don't know if nadair changes everyday or its just the lowest number. Little confused on nadir. Guess Ill google that.
 
The nadir is the lowest number in the cycle. Where the nadir falls depends on the insulin your using -- it would have been earlier with Vetsulin and later with Prozinc. However, the nadir can and does move around.

If you are following the SLGS method with Prozinc,
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
Based on the above directions, it looks like you will want to increase Gracie's dose.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
The nadir is the lowest number in the cycle. Where the nadir falls depends on the insulin your using -- it would have been earlier with Vetsulin and later with Prozinc. However, the nadir can and does move around.

If you are following the SLGS method with Prozinc,
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
Based on the above directions, it looks like you will want to increase Gracie's dose.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I already did this morning. After no replys I just decided the numbers were still too high although a few weeks back under the same dose there were a few under 200. Seems strange they went up but,I know very little about diabetes so, increased it because nothing in my curve showed very low numbers. Thanks for replying.
 
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