Managing Diabetes and UTI - Male Persian

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Astha

Astha

Member Since 2021
Hello everyone,
I am new here and this is my first post. I am struggling with the multiple skin conditions, diabetes, and UTI in my cat. His name is Mau and he is a 5 year old Persian cat. He is recently diagnosed with diabetes and I am giving him 2 units of insulin shots daily since 3 days, but there is no improvement. For UTI, I am giving him 2.5ml/Twice daily antibiotics.

Symptoms:
1. Excessive weight loss
2. Voracious Apatite (Eating 5 times more than regular)
3. Excessive thirst.
4. Weakness and Inactivity
5. Small black spots in skin (noticed this today morning - Not Sure what it is!)
6. Urinating small amounts multiple times.
7. Fever (Thought this might be due to UTI?)

Prior conditions: He had been on some or the other kind of medication since a year. It all started when he had a fight with some street cat and had a Eye wound. He had black spot on eyes which got cured after around 10 months (Jan 2021). Around the same time he developed some ear infection and skin itching. Both these conditions were not cured properly when he suddenly started loosing weight and became lethargic. The black spot on his eyes came out one day but he still gets tears and the Vet says he has developed traumatic entropion.

Diet : I live in India and only whiskas and Royal canin wet food are available here. He had been eating a lot of dry and wet food since few months but I have stopped those now and keeping him on natural diet. I give him boiled fish. Please let me know what else can I prepare for him.

It has been about half a month since he has started loosing weight, and is still eating a lot. How much time does it takes for UTI to get cured? I feel like Insulin is not working and I feel helpless. I thought to give it some time before taking him to Vet. I just want to know how long does it takes for his glucose levels to become normal after starting insulin. I see no difference in 3 days. I am monitoring him at home and most of the times, his levels are HI (Outside the range of my glucometer). Yesterday afternoon it was 467. Today morning I noticed small black dots in his skin and hair loss in that area.
 
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Hi and welcome to the forum.
Can you tell us what type of insulin you are using and what type of meter.
Are you giving the insulin one or twice a day?
It will take a lot more than 3 days to get the blood glucose levels under control.
I am going to tag @Bandit's Mom for you as she also lives in India and may be able to help you with lots of things.

Are you able to get some Ketostix from a pharmacy and test his urine for ketones? It’s a simple test but important.
Until he is regulated he will be very hungry. This is normal. don’t feed too much fish, it is not suitable for cats. Let him eat as much as he wants at the moment.

Do you have a hypo kit ready in case of low numbers? Make sure you have some honey at all times.
 
I am using a human glucometer (Dr. Morepen).

The insulin is "Insulin Glargine Injection I.P (Monocomponent Insulin Glargine r-DNA Origin) (Lantus) (Solostar) 100 IU/ml". Sorry I have no idea about the types of Insulin. The Vet said this one is fine.

We did the whole body checkup last week and the Vet said that everything looks fine except Diabetes and Urinary tract Infection (And anemia which he said is due to diabetes).

I am giving him 2 units of Insulin twice a day along with Augmentin (2.5ml/twice a day for UTI). His glucose levels are always high (Even after Insulin dose). Please advice me if there is any specific diet I can follow. And how many days does it takes for the glucose levels to start dropping?
 
Astha said:
I am using a human glucometer (Dr. Morepen).

The insulin is "Insulin Glargine Injection I.P (Monocomponent Insulin Glargine r-DNA Origin) (Lantus) (Solostar) 100 IU/ml". Sorry I have no idea about the types of Insulin. The Vet said this one is fine.

We did the whole body checkup last week and the Vet said that everything looks fine except Diabetes and Urinary tract Infection (And anemia which he said is due to diabetes).

I am giving him 2 units of Insulin twice a day along with Augmentin (2.5ml/twice a day for UTI). His glucose levels are always high (Even after Insulin dose). Please advice me if there is any specific diet I can follow. And how many days does it takes for the glucose levels to start dropping?
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Yes, Glargine is a good insulin.it’s also called Lantus. You would be better swapping over to insulin syringes than using a solostar pen as you can increase in smaller increments. Maybe @Bandit's Mom can help you with that in India.
I’m really glad you are home testing the BG levels.
It would be really helpful you could set up a spreadsheet with the data you have already collected.
Here is a link to how to do it. I will tag @Bandit's Mom as well as she is a whizz at helping people set up the SS
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

Here is link to suitable food. Look for food which is 10% or lower carb content. There is no need to buy prescription food.
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

However if you have not been feeding a low carb diet, do not swap over to one until you have the SS set up and are testing frequently and we are giving you some guidance, as the BGs can drop up to 100 points or more when swapping to a low carb diet.

Do you have a hypo kit set up yet? Most important
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
 
Hi Astha!

I'm in Mumbai, India and I have a diabetic cat as well. There is no dry food available in India that is low carb. There are a few options for low carb wet food, but it looks like you have switched Mau to cooked fish? There is a company called BARF (https://barfindia.com/barf-for-cats/) which supplies commercial raw food for cats in India. That's an option you can try since cooked fish may not be nutritionally complete.

https://www.foodfurlife.com/raw-or-cooked-which-should-i-feed-and-why.html#/
https://catinfo.org/#Home-Prepared_Diets

How long has he had the UTI? One of my cats had a UTI and was okay after 3 days on Augmetin Duo.

I think @Bron and Sheba (GA) has covered everything else.
 
Thanks a lot @Bandit's Mom and @Bron and Sheba (GA) for all the suggestions. Unfortunately BARF doesn't delivers in my area, I will try to give him a nutritious home made meal.
He started these symptoms around a month back and was diagnosed a week back. He was given different medication earlier and we are giving him Augmentin since 4 days (Since we changed the Vet and did all the tests).
I am updating the Spreadsheet with his results.
 
Astha said:
I will try to give him a nutritious home made meal.
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When did you switch him from dry food to home made meals?

Astha said:
He was given different medication earlier and we are giving him Augmentin since 4 days
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If the UTI hasn't resolved yet, then I'm wondering it it's something else.

It takes a week for the Lantus depot to build. Let's see if his numbers improve at the end of the week :-)

Where in India are you located?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
When did you switch him from dry food to home made meals?


If the UTI hasn't resolved yet, then I'm wondering it it's something else.

It takes a week for the Lantus depot to build. Let's see if his numbers improve at the end of the week :)

Where in India are you located?
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He always had a combination of Home made(Dinner) + Dry Food(Snacks)+ Wet Food(Lunch). It's been a week since we have reduced dry food and wet food. We stopped them both around 4-5 days back. So now he is only on Home made meal.

He gets occasional fever and is not active. I will again talk to the Vet when his antibiotics dose is done. I am not sure how to make sure that his UTI is fixed because the symptoms are similar to Diabetes.

I am located in Raipur(C.G).
 
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Whiskas in Jelly is low carb wet food. You can feed him that. Whiskas in Gravy is high carb. All dry food is high carb.

It's possible that he doesn't have UTI. Was a urine test done? With diabetes, there is frequent urination and a lot of urination (much larger pee clumps). It's possible that is being mistaken for UTI.
 
Astha said:
He loves gravy and was eating a lot of it since past few months.
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Will he eat Whiskas in Jelly?

Astha said:
I saw this skin condition yesterday, It's spreading from his legs to the neck area and he is loosing hairs in the affected area. Is this related to Diabetes?
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I don't think it is related to diabetes. With diabetes you get dandruff and the coat becomes dull. @Bron and Sheba (GA)

Did the vet say whether it could be anything else like a fungal infection or scabies or fleas? My other cat had both scabies followed by fungal infection last year and had crusty patches and hair loss.
Is it possible that Mau is allergic to something? That could also cause skin issues.

All of these can also raise blood sugar levels.
 
Just had a talk with the Vet. He asked to increase the Insulin dose to 4 units. Will visit him today.
 
Astha said:
Yes, he eats that too. We used to give him Whiskas Tuna in Jelly.
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He can continue to eat that in addition to any home cooked meat.

Astha said:
Just had a talk with the Vet. He asked to increase the Insulin dose to 4 units. Will visit him today.
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I would increase to 3U first and that too from tomorrow morning. But do check with the vet on the skin issues. Either fleas/scabies/allergic dermatitis/fungal infections.
 
You need to be getting more tests in before increasing. He could be bouncing.
Are you using a pen or syringes for the insulin?
He has only just been diagnosed. If you started the insulin on 10 March , you need to hold the dose for 5 to 7 days for the depot to stabilise.
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You need to be getting more tests in before increasing. He could be bouncing.
Are you using a pen or syringes for the insulin?
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Bron, she would be using the Lantus Solostar pen. The only syringes you get in India are BD 1 ml (100 unit) syringes. With 2 unit markings (not even 1 unit). Dosing even whole units is quite an effort with them. So fractional units is an impossibility. I have tried and failed.
 
Astha,

Here a few more things you can do:

(a) On the testing front, can you get 1 test before the shot (AMPS & PMPS) and 1 mid-cycle test (any time between +2 and +6) for each cycle? That is 4 tests a day?
(b) Does Mau have hind leg neuropathy? I started giving Bandit methyl B12 for it. You can buy it on Amazon. I gave her 3 capsules a day (3mg) mixed in wet food.
(c) Please also check every week for ketones with ketostix that you can buy on Amazon again.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...and-diabetic-cats-a-primer-on-ketones.239971/

Astha said:
Yes, a urine test was done
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Do you have the results of the urine test with you? Does it say ketones are absent?
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Please DO NOT RAISE THE DOSE FROM 2 units to 4 units. That is far too much of an increase and is not safe.
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Should I increase it by 1 unit for now? The Vet called me today evening and said he will examine him and keep him in observation for a few hours. Let me talk to him and ask him to increase in small increments.

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Are you using a pen or syringes for the insulin?
Click to expand...

I am using Lantus Solostar pen. I saw some skin condition today and panicked. I thought maybe high BG is causing some other issues.

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
He has only just been diagnosed. If you started the insulin on 10 March , you need to hold the dose for 5 to 7 days for the depot to stabilise.
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I didn't knew this. So Maybe I can continue the current dose for this week? I started the Insulin on 8th March.

Bandit's Mom said:
Astha,

Here a few more things you can do:

(a) On the testing front, can you get 1 test before the shot (AMPS & PMPS) and 1 mid-cycle test (any time between +2 and +6) for each cycle? That is 4 tests a day?
(b) Does Mau have hind leg neuropathy? I started giving Bandit methyl B12 for it. You can buy it on Amazon. I gave her 3 capsules a day (3mg) mixed in wet food.
(c) Please also check every week for ketones with ketostix that you can buy on Amazon again.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...and-diabetic-cats-a-primer-on-ketones.239971/


Do you have the results of the urine test with you? Does it say ketones are absent?
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a. I will try to follow this test routine. I just get scared of poking his ears. He already has some marks in his ears since we started testing and I feel sad for him.
b. I am not aware of it but his legs looks fine to me. Anyways, I will get it confirmed with the Vet today.
c. Yes, the Urine test says Ketones are nill. I can share the report if that helps.

He is drinking a lot less water today but is always hungry.
 
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Astha said:
The Vet called me today evening and said he will examine him and keep him in observation for a few hours. Let me talk to him and ask him to increase in small increments.
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Astha said:
I saw some skin condition today and panicked. I thought maybe high BG is causing some other issues.
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What did the vet say?
I don't think the skin issues have to do with diabetes. But any kind of infection/illness/inflammation does cause the BG to go up. Btw, was Mau put on steroids for treatment of any of his skin and other issues in the last year? That could also have led to the diabetes.

Astha said:
I didn't knew this. So Maybe I can continue the current dose for this week? I started the Insulin on 8th March.
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It takes a week for the Lantus depot to build. So you started Lantus on March 8th but started home testing his BG on March 10th? If so ca, you please add 2 more rows at the top for March 8th and 9th in your SS and just fill in the units. So one knows that you have finished 5 days of Lantus. Thanks! :)

Astha said:
I will try to follow this test routine. I just get scared of poking his ears. He already has some marks in his ears since we started testing and I feel sad for him.
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There are some testing tips in the link below. I alternate both ears with Bandit. Testing gets easier with time. The ear also "learns" to bleed.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Astha said:
I am not aware of it but his legs looks fine to me. Anyways, I will get it confirmed with the Vet today.
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The signs of neuropathy usually are that (a) they cannot walk for very long without sitting down (b) their legs slip out from beneath them (c) they stop jumping on to surfaces they could earlier (d) start standing/walking on their hocks in advanced stages of neuropathy.

Astha said:
Yes, the Urine test says Ketones are nill.
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This is a BIG relief. Nevertheless, please buy the ketostix and test for ketones ever now and then.

On the dosing front, since you've completed 5 days, you might as well wait another 2 days (1 week on this dose) to increase to 2U. Till then could you get those tests (one at pre-shot) and one after (between +2 and +6). Especially at night. Some cats go lower at night and bounce during the day.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
What did the vet say?
I don't think the skin issues have to do with diabetes. But any kind of infection/illness/inflammation does cause the BG to go up. Btw, was Mau put on steroids for treatment of any of his skin and other issues in the last year? That could also have led to the diabetes.


It takes a week for the Lantus depot to build. So you started Lantus on March 8th but started home testing his BG on March 10th? If so ca, you please add 2 more rows at the top for March 8th and 9th in your SS and just fill in the units. So one knows that you have finished 5 days of Lantus. Thanks! :)


There are some testing tips in the link below. I alternate both ears with Bandit. Testing gets easier with time. The ear also "learns" to bleed.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/


The signs of neuropathy usually are that (a) they cannot walk for very long without sitting down (b) their legs slip out from beneath them (c) they stop jumping on to surfaces they could earlier (d) start standing/walking on their hocks in advanced stages of neuropathy.


This is a BIG relief. Nevertheless, please buy the ketostix and test for ketones ever now and then.

On the dosing front, since you've completed 5 days, you might as well wait another 2 days (1 week on this dose) to increase to 2U. Till then could you get those tests (one at pre-shot) and one after (between +2 and +6). Especially at night. Some cats go lower at night and bounce during the day.
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The Vet said that Mau has scabies. He did not prescribed any medicine for it, he said he will treat the other issues only once diabetes is under control. Is there any natural remedy(any herbs?) I can try? Please let me know if you have any idea, I just don't want it to spread further.

I don't think he has neuropathy, He is not showing any of these symptoms. He is weak and gets tired fast, but I think that is due to Diabetes and sudden weight loss.

He gave him 2 units of Mixtard 70/30 today. Asked me check if this Insulin works better. He also asked me to not feed Chicken/Fish to Mau, and instead feed him Metabolic dry cat food. I am a bit skeptical about feeding him dry food now. And as he is very hungry these days, not sure if I can stop feeding him Chicken/Fish.
 
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Another vet who doesn't know his arse from his elbow! Great!

Astha said:
Vet said that Mau has scabies. He did not prescribed any medicine for it, he said he will treat the other issues only once diabetes is under control. Is there any natural remedy(any herbs?) I can try? Please let me know if you have any idea, I just don't want it to spread further.
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My cat had scabies almost exactly a year back. Please apply Selamec spot-on once a month for 3 months. The effects of the treatment should be seen within a week. But you will need to apply it once in 4 weeks for 3 months to completely get rid of it. It is very effective. Make sure you get the Selamec for cats and not the one for dogs, since the strength is different.
uuWUhfcUdSWncLhpTiSBZPg7

Astha said:
He gave him 2 units of Mixtard 70/30 today. Asked me check if this Insulin works better.
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Did you give Mau Lantus in addition to this tonight? Please don't. My vet also recommended Mixtard but Lantus is much better for cats. Please stick to it. Please monitor Mau carefully tonight.

Astha said:
He also asked me to not feed Chicken/Fish to Mau, and instead feed him Metabolic dry cat food. I am a bit skeptical about feeding him dry food now. And as he is very hungry these days, not sure if I can stop feeding him Chicken/Fish.
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Metabolic dry food is too high in carbs. Believe me, I was exactly where you are when Bandit was diagnosed. I would stick to a combination of home cooked chicken/fish and Whiskas in Jelly wet food. If you can afford to switch him to Whiskas in Jelly wet food completely, nothing like it. There are other LC wet food options available but they cost 5X what Whiskas does. I can send you a list if you are interested.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Please apply Selamec spot-on once a month for 3 months
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ETA: If you've never applied a spot-on treatment on Mau before, look at videos on YouTube. The method of application is same for flea spot-on as well as scabies spot-on.

Please do not leave the scabies untreated. Please get and apply the spot-on ASAP.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Another vet who doesn't know his arse from his elbow! Great!


My cat had scabies almost exactly a year back. Please apply Selamec spot-on once a month for 3 months. The effects of the treatment should be seen within a week. But you will need to apply it once in 4 weeks for 3 months to completely get rid of it. It is very effective. Make sure you get the Selamec for cats and not the one for dogs, since the strength is different.
uuWUhfcUdSWncLhpTiSBZPg7


Did you give Mau Lantus in addition to this tonight? Please don't. My vet also recommended Mixtard but Lantus is much better for cats. Please stick to it. Please monitor Mau carefully tonight.


Metabolic dry food is too high in carbs. Believe me, I was exactly where you are when Bandit was diagnosed. I would stick to a combination of home cooked chicken/fish and Whiskas in Jelly wet food. If you can afford to switch him to Whiskas in Jelly wet food completely, nothing like it. There are other LC wet food options available but they cost 5X what Whiskas does. I can send you a list if you are interested.
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Thanks for the reply. This clears my doubt. I will stick with homemade food and start whiskas jelly.
His BG is still high after 2 hours even after changing the Insulin. I don't know what else I can try now.
I haven't given him lantus today.
Do I need to apply Selamec only in the effected area? He has long hairs and I am afraid that some portion can get missed and it will spread again.
 
Astha said:
His BG is still high after 2 hours even after changing the Insulin. I don't know what else I can try now.
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We will slowly increase his Lantus dose. It will take a little time, but hopefully you should see good numbers when he gets to his optimal dose.

The scabies will also be increasing his BG to some extent. Can't say how much.

Astha said:
Do I need to apply Selamec only in the effected area? He has long hairs and I am afraid that some portion can get missed and it will spread again
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There is a particular method to apply a spot-on. It is a small tube (0.5ml) of liquid that is applied to the back of the head/scruff where they cannot reach to lick it off. You part the hair there and apply it on the skin. Look at videos on YouTube.
 
Could not find Selamec in the entire city. I am not getting this exact brand in Amazon as well. There are some other brands like this : https://www.amazon.in/Medfly-Parash...63FN/ref=dp_prsubs_3?pd_rd_i=B0742963FN&psc=1. Please let me know if this will work.
I noticed him carefully today and I think he is developing Neuropathy. He is walking slowly(and carefully) and avoiding jumping. Should I start with methyl B12? For many days should I give it him? Do I have to consult the Vet or its safe?
Thanks again for all the help.
 
The other option is Bayer's Advocate spot-on. It's a different drug and much more expensive than Selamec spot-on. It's available on Amazon but you need to check if they will deliver to Raipur.

Do you have someone in another city who can courier Selamec to you?


I'm not a 100% sure of this but there are also shots of Ivermectin that a vet can administer for scabies. But you need to find a vet who will do it without saying something stupid like treat the diabetes before the scabies!

Methyl B-12 is perfectly safe and you can add it to Mau's food everyday. Open the capsule and pour the contents into his food. But the neuropathy may resolve only once his sugar levels come down. Start the methyl B-12 nevertheless.

I think you can look at increasing his dose tomorrow. But after you increase, it's very very important that you get at least 4 tests a day. Before each shot and any time between 2-6 hours after the shot.
 
Got a test in the night cycle. His numbers are above 500. Should I increase the Insulin dose now?
His UTI is better now, but I am still giving him Antibiotics. He is a bit more active than before and is gaining some weight.
I am also giving him Zipvit which was prescribed by the Vet.
 
Astha said:
Got a test in the night cycle. His numbers are above 500. Should I increase the Insulin dose now?
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Yes. I think it's time for an increase. Please do get those 4 tests a day though. :-)

Astha said:
His UTI is better now, but I am still giving him Antibiotics. He is a bit more active than before and is gaining some weight.
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Glad to hear this. Why is he still on antibiotics? Shouldn't need them for more than a week.

Astha said:
I am also giving him Zipvit which was prescribed by the Vet.
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Not sure what this is. Will look it up, but if it's a syrup, you need to check if there is any sugar in it.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes. I think it's time for an increase. Please do get those 4 tests a day though.
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Yes, Will increase to 3 units from tomorrow.
Bandit's Mom said:
Glad to hear this. Why is he still on antibiotics? Shouldn't need them for more than a week.
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I asked the Vet and he said to continue it for now.
Bandit's Mom said:
Not sure what this is. Will look it up, but if it's a syrup, you need to check if there is any sugar in it.
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I couldn't find any sugar in the Ingredients. Also checked with the Vet if it's fine for diabetes.
 
I gave Selamac to Mau yesterday. Towards the evening he started running to open areas and became lethargic. He is breathing very fast and not eating, and drinking a lot of water.

I noticed this late in the evening and could not take him to any Vet, so I tried to remove the selamac by wiping his neck with wet cloth. In the morning I noticed the upper parts of his eyes is blueish. Took him to the vet in the morning and this vet was totally cool about the symptoms. He gave him 2 tablets for two days. He also did nothing for the scabies.

I called the other vet (the one who refused the treatment of scabies and said to treat diabetes first), and he said that spot on treatments are toxic and scolded me badly for giving it to him without his consent. He said Mau is poisoned and has lack of oxygen, and called me immediately. Mau is a bit better now (his breathing is a bit slower, but still fast. He had a walk outside). I have no idea if any of these is the side effects of the treatment or this is how it works. I am planning to first give him a bath.
Not sure even if these things are due to the treatment or not. But there is no change in his routine, he eat the same thing yesterday and stayed at home all the time.

Please let me know if you have any idea about this. @Bandit's Mom
 
I gave him the Selamac for cats (0.5ml), applied the liquid on his skin near the neck.
 
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