3/12 Ruby AMPS 89/+3 67/+6 77/+10 97/PMPS 121/+2 76/+4.5 56/+5.5 71/+6.5 67

Katherine&Ruby

Katherine&Ruby

Very Active Member
Yesterday on There’s Something about Ruby. :cat:

Ten minutes before my alarm goes off, Ruby is plopped next to my head on the pillow, purring and head butting me. Cat alarm. She is going to love the time change this weekend. Cleaned her bowl of bison this morning, so yays on the eating front.

Healing thoughts for all of the sick kitties and hugs to you beans. It’s Friday, guys! :woot: :bighug::bighug:
 
Love head butt alarms! Marty (my civvie) likes to purr right in my ear and then lick my forehead, while Fortune prefers to lay on my chest/side and purr while headbutting. Do you think they know that they are delaying getting food when they do that? :p

Good job cleaning your bowl, Ruby!
 
RachelG said:
Love head butt alarms! Marty (my civvie) likes to purr right in my ear and then lick my forehead, while Fortune prefers to lay on my chest/side and purr while headbutting. Do you think they know that they are delaying getting food when they do that? :p

Good job cleaning your bowl, Ruby!
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Forehead licks are next level cat alarm!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
What I meant about late feeds and dose is that for cats that are really close to remission but still blue preshots, a small snack late cycle can help bring them down. Butters isn’t there yet.

Another option not listed, and I am not the best at recognizing this, but some cats have an inverted cycle when the dose is too high. In other wards, I would not increase but rather go the other direction. Plus it is cycle 14, time to go down dose.
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Butters & Lyla said:
I have noticed an inverted cycle here and there...but only since being on this dose and without any hint of lower numbers otherwise.
So you're saying decrease tonight? It feels so weird to be doing it when she hasn't had many numbers below 80, but I'll give it a try. Like Katherine was saying, she has been going up dose with Ruby and Robert has been going up dose with Henry. I had Butters in the same boat as them. Although Butters has less blue preshots than they have...that's the only difference I can see.
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Rather than hijack Lyla's thread I thought I'd ask the same question here re: Ruby. Are inverted cycles what is happening to Ruby as well on .5? It surprises me that she has not reacted to a doubling of her dose. I have so much respect for the years of experience represented in the TR protocol as well as what is being done here on a daily basis, but I feel like kitties like Ruby, Robert's Henry and Mariette's Buddy, whose numbers hover in the higher greens with blue preshots, are the weakest link in the protocol. Aside from the dictum of reducing after 7 days of "mostly" green numbers, there is no hard and fast rule for how to deal with this situation aside from steadily increasing the dose again. If Ruby does go down again to a drop, I might consider taking her off insulin like Mariette did and see how she fares.
 
Do you see inverted cycles on Ruby's spreadsheet? If I understand correctly what an inverted cycle is (check butters's AM cycle today for what I think is an example), I don't think I see the same pattern but that doesn't mean it's not there (it just means I can't see it!). I'm very interested to know what the experts have to say about your question, though.
We should get together and jointly purchase a Bison share for Ruby and Butters:joyful:.
 
I wonder if there's some more info about the 'inverted curve' phenomena somewhere? Google hasn't led me anywhere productive.

I find it very counter intuitive. I mean we know cats have hypo episodes from too much insulin. So how can an inverted curve indicate too much? What is the reasoning behind it? Is it that the liver anticipates the insulin excess and then releases glucose to compensate? Seems like if that's the case it could only happen in cats that have been getting a too-high dose for a long time. Long enough for the body to anticipate and try to counter the pattern.

But then I also found it impossible to try and see the curve patterns on Buddy. It was much easier when the pancreas weren't contributing. Because then you know how much insulin is present and when it should be peaking. But when the body is producing insulin you don't really know. And I'm guessing that the lower the dose, the less you're seeing the contribution of the Lantus and more from the pancreas. Then you're also dealing with food bumps. o_O
 
@Butters & Lyla I guess there's no evidence of inverted curves on Ruby's SS. She still has a nadir even if it is very early in each cycle. I was just trying to understand through your example of how perhaps being on higher doses than needed can produce counterproductive effects?

@Mariette I think you have a good point re: insulin vs pancreas. Ruby's internists believe she's reached remission but I don't really have any clear idea of how much her pancreas is contributing because she's been on insulin every day for more than 6 months now.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
@Butters & Lyla I guess there's no evidence of inverted curves on Ruby's SS. She still has a nadir even if it is very early in each cycle. I was just trying to understand through your example of how perhaps being on higher doses than needed can produce counterproductive effects?

@Mariette I think you have a good point re: insulin vs pancreas. Ruby's internists believe she's reached remission but I don't really have any clear idea of how much her pancreas is contributing because she's been on insulin every day for more than 6 months now.
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Well with Buddy I didn't feel like the insulin was doing much after i put him back on Lantus. I still wonder about if I should have been increasing in bigger steps and if maybe there was a dose where we could just flatten those peaks. We see those nice green OTJ spreadsheets and that's what we think we need to achieve.
When testing my own blood sugar I know I am much more forgiving. So why be so strict with Buddy. If he's doing physically well and remaining steady I think I should be happy. I figure I can always put him back on insulin if I need to. I have some unopened pens and they're not going anywhere for a while.
 
Hmm, maybe I'll answer myself here.. I need to be strict with Buddy because he's diabetic, and I'm not. But that's why I'm still testing him several times a day.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
@Butters & Lyla I guess there's no evidence of inverted curves on Ruby's SS. She still has a nadir even if it is very early in each cycle. I was just trying to understand through your example of how perhaps being on higher doses than needed can produce counterproductive effects?

@Mariette I think you have a good point re: insulin vs pancreas. Ruby's internists believe she's reached remission but I don't really have any clear idea of how much her pancreas is contributing because she's been on insulin every day for more than 6 months now.
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Yeah, I don't know. I was only pointing out an inverted curve but not weighing in on whether it meant butters was on too high a dose because I haven't a clue!!!:D
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Yeah, I don't know. I was only pointing out an inverted curve but not weighing in on whether it meant butters was on too high a dose because I haven't a clue!!!:D
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Maybe that 108 was a food bump for Butters? If she ate 90 minutes before then it could be? Whether that counts as inverted curve or not I don't know!
 
An inverted curve can mean many things. Too high and too low a dose too. Some cats with late nadirs have curves that look that way too, by which I mean numbers in the middle of the curve higher that the preshot. A mini bounce/resolve bounce can also do that. With Butters, who can nadir later, the higher numbers were at an uncharacteristic time of cycle for her, so that’s what had me wondering. Ruby is pretty classic higher preshots, lower in the mid cycle.
 
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