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Nicole - Toe's mom

Nicole - Toe's mom

Member Since 2021
Hello everyone! I am a new member to this community, but not really new to FD. My sugar baby was diagnosed awhile ago and was initially started on 0.5u Prozinc BID. He was gradually increased to 4.5u BID, which he is currently on right now. I honestly just went by the recommendations from my vet until recently a friend told me about a FD group on FB and I was advised to join FDMB. I know my baby is on a high dose of insulin that is not being weaned by the vet with his curve days (now only done every 6mo). It has been conncernig to me for awhile now. I decided to buy a glucometer and this evening was the first time I tested at home. So this morning at 8am (EST) I fed Toes when I got home from work, gave him 4u of his Prozinc after he ate some. I tested him +9 with him not eating for 2-3hours before testing. Glocose was 111 at 530pm. I fed him this evening at 630pm and did not give him any insulin.. I am so overwhelmed now and I don't know where to begin with making a spreadsheet, how often do I test his levels, ect.... I feel like a horrible cat mom and I should have began testing earlier than I have.. I am thankful he never had any serious negative reactions to "blind shooting" his insulin for this long. He is due for an all day curve with the vet next week and I plan on telling them I WILL be testing at home from now on, regardless of the vets reaction. I want to keep my baby safe and to hopefully get him weaned from such a high dose. So, so sorry for such a long post. I just want to do the right thing.
 
Hi Nicole and Toe and welcome to the forum.
Sorry no one has responded sooner.
FD can be overwhelming but you have come to the best possible place.
I am going to tag @Bandit's Mom to help you with the spreadsheet.
I am out at the moment and on my iPhone but will answer your questions when I get home.
Just wanted to let you know we have seen your post. Toe is a cutie!
Bron
 
Hi Nicole

Welcome to FDMB! You are not a horrible cat mom at all. You are doing your best! FD is indeed overwhelming and that's compounded by vets not recommending home testing and increasing doses by too much.

I will send you a PM with the details I need to set up your spreadsheet and signature.

Bhooma
 
Hi Nicole,
Can you tell us what food you are feeding Toe and how often you feed him?
Do you feed him before the shot and give him snacks during the first half of the cycle? I know you work but an automatic feeder is a great idea to feed cats snacks when you are not there.

Can you tell us what type of meter you are using? Is it a human meter or a pet meter?
You don’t need the vets permission to home test the blood glucose levels.

I am not a Prozinc user so I will tag @Deb & Wink to help you with that.

now that you have a meter, we recommend, testing before every shot to see it is safe to give the dose of insulin
We also recommend testing during the cycle to see how low the dose is taking Toe.
So test at maybe +3 and +5 You can change the times around to suit your schedule but testing during the first half of the cycle will give you the best information and keep Toe safe. If the BGs are low during the first half of the cycle you will need to keep testing unit
He is in goood numbers.

Do you have a hypo kit
Here is a link to useful information which has info about a hypo kit within it.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

don’t feed foe the 2 hours before the shot as we need the preshot number to be not food influenced.

krep asking questions. You are not a bad cat mom, you are a good one!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Nicole,
Can you tell us what food you are feeding Toe and how often you feed him?
Do you feed him before the shot and give him snacks during the first half of the cycle? I know you work but an automatic feeder is a great idea to feed cats snacks when you are not there.

Can you tell us what type of meter you are using? Is it a human meter or a pet meter?
You don’t need the vets permission to home test the blood glucose levels.

I am not a Prozinc user so I will tag @Deb & Wink to help you with that.

now that you have a meter, we recommend, testing before every shot to see it is safe to give the dose of insulin
We also recommend testing during the cycle to see how low the dose is taking Toe.
So test at maybe +3 and +5 You can change the times around to suit your schedule but testing during the first half of the cycle will give you the best information and keep Toe safe. If the BGs are low during the first half of the cycle you will need to keep testing unit
He is in goood numbers.

Do you have a hypo kit
Here is a link to useful information which has info about a hypo kit within it.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

don’t feed foe the 2 hours before the shot as we need the preshot number to be not food influenced.

krep asking questions. You are not a bad cat mom, you are a good one!
Click to expand...


So I feed him all wet food. I changed to strictly that when he was first diagnosed. I feed either Friskies or Fancy Feast (many different varieties but pate is included) I honestly didn't know the gravy brands were higher carb, which is probably why he is on such a high dose of Prozinc and probably hasn't had major hypo issues. He does like only certain kinds better (I have purchased soooooo many different flavors, etc. He can be picky)

I do feed him before his shots. He will usually eat a good amount and probably a half hour later I will give him his shot. My boyfriend and I have, in the past, given him his shot while he was eating though. He also grazes on his food for a few hours. But at times, he will eat all of the food. I do not give him snacks usually (sometimes he will get treats, but not many) He seems to be constantly hungry ALL THE TIME!

I bought the ReliOn Premier (human) meter.
And currently I do not have a hypo kit :(

Thank you for the response too, I greatly appreciate it!
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
I just need some guidance if possible. Last night I held my sugar baby's insulin due to his PMPS being 111. He was fed. Was begging for food a few hours after his dinner so a small can of FF beef pate was given between him and his brother for a night time snack. This morning his AMPS was 178 (at 0700 EST). Now I don't know whether or not to hold off on a dose of insulin. If I were to give it, I'd give 0.25-0.5u (Prozinc). I fed him at 0800, 2 cans FF turkey/giblets feast pate.
Click to expand...

It is difficult to give dosing advice without a spreadsheet and data. If I understand right he has been on 4U of Prozinc and last night's shot was skipped?

Are you also switching from HC (FF gravy) to LC (FF pate)? Or has that change been made a few days back?
 
Last edited:
Bandit's Mom said:
It is difficult to give dosing advice without a spreadsheet and data. If I understand right he has been on 4U of Prozinc and last night's shot was skipped?

Are you also switching from HC (FF gravy) to LC (FF pate)? Or has that change been made a few days back?
Click to expand...


Well his dose for over a year now has been 4.5u BID and he did mostly get fed the HC FF/Friskies gravy wet food. I just gave him 0.5u less yesterday morning and then tested for the first time that evening. Idk why I didn't test in the morning though... He does get some FF pate but he prefers the gravy. And yes I did skip last night's dose bc his sugar was 111.

I'm surprised I haven't killed my cat for not testing like I should have. I feel so stupid because we've been blind shooting him for so long now... I work as a respiratory therapist so I should know better.. I'm just upset at myself
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
Well his dose for over a year now has been 4.5u BID and he did mostly get fed the HC FF/Friskies gravy wet food. I just gave him 0.5u less yesterday morning and then tested for the first time that evening. Idk why I didn't test in the morning though... He does get some FF pate but he prefers the gravy. And yes I did skip last night's dose bc his sugar was 111.
Click to expand...

If you switch from the gravy to pate/LC, his insulin needs will come down dramatically. I would make the switch even though he likes gravy!

I see from your post on FB that you have given him 1U this AM? Is he still eating FF gravy or have you been able to switch him to FF classics/pate?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
If you switch from the gravy to pate/LC, his insulin needs will come down dramatically. I would make the switch even though he likes gravy!

I see from your post on FB that you have given him 1U this AM? Is he still eating FF gravy or have you been able to switch him to FF classics/pate?
Click to expand...


Last night (630pm) he was given Friskies turkey shreds. He always seems hungry between feeds day/night so last night I did give 1 small can of FF beef pate between him and his brother as a snack. Then when I tested this morning at 0700, his glucose was 178. I fed him 2 small cans FF turkey/giblets pate (a small amount is given to his brother, as he prefers dry food that I keep out of Toes reach) Toes is a grazer so he doesn't eat the full amount but he did eat a decent amount this morning. About 40mins after he ate some, I administered 1u. I plan to test him before I leave for my dentist appointment. So probably around 1030-1045.
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
I've told my vet numerous times about this and her response was to feed him if he was hungry. I have given minimal amounts of dry food before. I won't be doing that anymore though. Just maybe some pate and I plan to boil chicken to cut up as a snack as well in between feedings.
Click to expand...

Yes. A food change is definitely in order. Makes no sense to carb him up and give him a high dose of insulin.

When you can - later today - could you please input whatever numbers you have - BG numbers from vet curves or home testing and what dose you gave him every day - into the SS I have set-up for you? Data from 01/01/2021 would be good enough. We are handicapped without data here!

And I don't know if you've seen this sticky on the Prozin Dosing Methods? https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Sorry if that is too much info all at once!
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
Hello everyone! I am a new member to this community, but not really new to FD. My sugar baby was diagnosed awhile ago and was initially started on 0.5u Prozinc BID. He was gradually increased to 4.5u BID, which he is currently on right now. I honestly just went by the recommendations from my vet until recently a friend told me about a FD group on FB and I was advised to join FDMB. I know my baby is on a high dose of insulin that is not being weaned by the vet with his curve days (now only done every 6mo). It has been conncernig to me for awhile now. I decided to buy a glucometer and this evening was the first time I tested at home. So this morning at 8am (EST) I fed Toes when I got home from work, gave him 4u of his Prozinc after he ate some. I tested him +9 with him not eating for 2-3hours before testing. Glocose was 111 at 530pm. I fed him this evening at 630pm and did not give him any insulin.. I am so overwhelmed now and I don't know where to begin with making a spreadsheet, how often do I test his levels, ect.... I feel like a horrible cat mom and I should have began testing earlier than I have.. I am thankful he never had any serious negative reactions to "blind shooting" his insulin for this long. He is due for an all day curve with the vet next week and I plan on telling them I WILL be testing at home from now on, regardless of the vets reaction. I want to keep my baby safe and to hopefully get him weaned from such a high dose. So, so sorry for such a long post. I just want to do the right thing.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the group, we are new here too so trust me, we have been nothing but grateful to this group for all the advise and support we received here.

What i would recommend doing is making a blood glucose curve, if your look at Chico's spreadsheet we did it on the 30.01.2021, you measure blood sugar every 2 hours, it helped us understand what nadir is, how to spot it, what is length of action of insulin and for us it was very useful because it helped us understand that the insulin we were on was not appropriate for Chico so we changed it. Having more data in will be much more useful for people with more experience to understand your kitties reaction to insulin.

Measuring in the beginning ca be very challenging, we struggled a lot, very often we had to force him to measure and he was pretty nervous around measuring time. With time it gets much better, giving them treats after each measurement is very helpful. We give Chico boiled chicken breast and he loves it, now 90% of the time he sees the measuring kit he comes to us alone and sits on out lap :D:D (great win for us)

It is not enough for him to be willing to be measured, he won't like it if you have to pinch him 4-5 times to get a blood sample (nobody would). We found the sock with rice warmed in the microwave to do miracles: the ear warms up in a matter or seconds and the blood droplet is of a decent size to take the sample.

Good luck and equip yourself with a lot of patience, sometimes trying to make sense of the numbers is a challenge but i am sure you will manage it:)
 
Hi Nicole, Bron asked me to stop in and look at what is going on with you and your cat Toes.

We all live in different parts of the world, so we express time in a + hour format. Each hour is labeled from the time you gave the insulin shot. Two cycles of 12 hours each in every 24 hour period. So there is the AMPS and the PMPS. 1 hour after the insulin shot would be recorded on the SS (spreadsheet) as +1, 2 hours as +2, etc.

Don't worry right now about not having much test data. Enter on the spreadsheet what you do have from your home testing the last couple of days. Then, if you have any data from your vet, you can go back and add that information to the SS.

Here is a thread that explains the SS (spreadsheet). How to Use the Spreadsheet
Simply click on the blue colored text to open that thread.

Once you have some data entered, I'll take another look and see what is going on.

Thanks. You've found us and we will help when we can.

The best thing you can do for yourself right now? Some mindfulness breathing, since it's a great stress reliever. Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.....
 
Hi Nicole,

While it is recommended to feed feline diabetics a low carb food, for safety please don't make any changes to Toe's diet until you've gathered some BG data in his spreadsheet and understand better how he's currently responding to his insulin. Dropping the carb load may require dose decreases in parallel so very close BG monitoring is needed during the transition period to ensure a kitty doesn't go too low.

Here is a vet-authored article covering how to safely transition a cat on insulin to a lower carb diet:

catinfo.org - Feline diabetes page


Mogs
.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes. A food change is definitely in order. Makes no sense to carb him up and give him a high dose of insulin.

When you can - later today - could you please input whatever numbers you have - BG numbers from vet curves or home testing and what dose you gave him every day - into the SS I have set-up for you? Data from 01/01/2021 would be good enough. We are handicapped without data here!

And I don't know if you've seen this sticky on the Prozin Dosing Methods? https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Sorry if that is too much info all at once!
Click to expand...

Yes. I will put all my numbers in. I have a vet appointment next week and I will have them give me all of his data as well. I'm not sure where I put everything.
 
Marina & Chico said:
Welcome to the group, we are new here too so trust me, we have been nothing but grateful to this group for all the advise and support we received here.

What i would recommend doing is making a blood glucose curve, if your look at Chico's spreadsheet we did it on the 30.01.2021, you measure blood sugar every 2 hours, it helped us understand what nadir is, how to spot it, what is length of action of insulin and for us it was very useful because it helped us understand that the insulin we were on was not appropriate for Chico so we changed it. Having more data in will be much more useful for people with more experience to understand your kitties reaction to insulin.

Measuring in the beginning ca be very challenging, we struggled a lot, very often we had to force him to measure and he was pretty nervous around measuring time. With time it gets much better, giving them treats after each measurement is very helpful. We give Chico boiled chicken breast and he loves it, now 90% of the time he sees the measuring kit he comes to us alone and sits on out lap :D:D (great win for us)

It is not enough for him to be willing to be measured, he won't like it if you have to pinch him 4-5 times to get a blood sample (nobody would). We found the sock with rice warmed in the microwave to do miracles: the ear warms up in a matter or seconds and the blood droplet is of a decent size to take the sample.

Good luck and equip yourself with a lot of patience, sometimes trying to make sense of the numbers is a challenge but i am sure you will manage it:)
Click to expand...

Thank you! I am definitely going to put my information in the spread sheet. I don't have much at the moment because I just started home testing. He does very well with it though!
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hi Nicole, Bron asked me to stop in and look at what is going on with you and your cat Toes.

We all live in different parts of the world, so we express time in a + hour format. Each hour is labeled from the time you gave the insulin shot. Two cycles of 12 hours each in every 24 hour period. So there is the AMPS and the PMPS. 1 hour after the insulin shot would be recorded on the SS (spreadsheet) as +1, 2 hours as +2, etc.

Don't worry right now about not having much test data. Enter on the spreadsheet what you do have from your home testing the last couple of days. Then, if you have any data from your vet, you can go back and add that information to the SS.

Here is a thread that explains the SS (spreadsheet). How to Use the Spreadsheet
Simply click on the blue colored text to open that thread.

Once you have some data entered, I'll take another look and see what is going on.

Thanks. You've found us and we will help when we can.

The best thing you can do for yourself right now? Some mindfulness breathing, since it's a great stress reliever. Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.....
Click to expand...
Thank you! I added in my numbers so far. I will test Toes again this evening before I feed him tonight. I'm just very overwhelmed again with all of this but I want to do the best for him.
 
You are doing a great job getting Toe sorted out and safe. There is a lot to learn in the beginning.
I would recommend, because you have reduced the dose of insulin, that you test for ketones in the urine. You need to buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy. Collect a urine sample from Toe and dip the test strip into the urine and check it against the colours on the side of the bottle exactly 15 seconds later. Anything above a trace needs vet attention. Record the result on the spreadsheet in the remarks column.
 
Baby steps Nicole. Progress is made in baby steps.

For such a drastic reduction in the dose to only 1U and a skipped dose last night, Toes really did not bounce high at all for the middle of the insulin cycle. That's good!

As you gain experience with testing, and gather more data, that decision point threshold can and will be lowered.

If you are not sure of what to do, please post here on the Feline Health forum for help. Even someone that does not know prozinc well should be able to guide you with a decision on giving the dose or skipping. For now, I'd suggest skipping the dose if Toes BG level is < 178 to 200 mg/dL. With the food change to a lower carb food, it would be safer to stay nearer 200. (or above)

We have a saying here. "Better too high for a day, than too low for a cycle."

Unfortunately, I'm usually only able to be here on the message board later in the evenings, east coast US time. But I'll try to check out your thread when I get the chance.

Do please review that Sticky PROZINC DOSING METHODS thread. There are a number of other documents (threads) that are sticky or pinned posts over in the Prozinc ISG group also. Don't try to read all of them at once. You'll REALLY be overwhelmed with all that information. Print out what you would like to review, and read the documents as you have time.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Baby steps Nicole. Progress is made in baby steps.

For such a drastic reduction in the dose to only 1U and a skipped dose last night, Toes really did not bounce high at all for the middle of the insulin cycle. That's good!

As you gain experience with testing, and gather more data, that decision point threshold can and will be lowered.

If you are not sure of what to do, please post here on the Feline Health forum for help. Even someone that does not know prozinc well should be able to guide you with a decision on giving the dose or skipping. For now, I'd suggest skipping the dose if Toes BG level is < 178 to 200 mg/dL. With the food change to a lower carb food, it would be safer to stay nearer 200. (or above)

We have a saying here. "Better too high for a day, than too low for a cycle."

Unfortunately, I'm usually only able to be here on the message board later in the evenings, east coast US time. But I'll try to check out your thread when I get the chance.

Do please review that Sticky PROZINC DOSING METHODS thread. There are a number of other documents (threads) that are sticky or pinned posts over in the Prozinc ISG group also. Don't try to read all of them at once. You'll REALLY be overwhelmed with all that information. Print out what you would like to review, and read the documents as you have time.
Click to expand...
I know, I'm trying not to do anything drastic but it seems like it kind of is already.. So tonight I am giving him his normal gravy wet food, his PMPS glucose was 240. I was told not to switch him completely to just low carb just yet. So do I follow my my vets instructions and give his "normal" 4.5u tonight? This is what I'm confused about. Because I haven't seen his numbers until now, that dose seems way too high to be giving.. I just don't know what to do anymore
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
I know, I'm trying not to do anything drastic but it seems like it kind of is already.. So tonight I am giving him his normal gravy wet food, his PMPS glucose was 240. I was told not to switch him completely to just low carb just yet. So do I follow my my vets instructions and give his "normal" 4.5u tonight? This is what I'm confused about. Because I haven't seen his numbers until now, that dose seems way too high to be giving.. I just don't know what to do anymore
Click to expand...
See if @Deb & Wink answers you re the dose.
If she doesn’t answer, I think I would stick with the 1 unit until you get more data. Test during the cycle as well..try and get a test in during the first half of the cycle at least so we can see how he is doing on the 1 unit.
But make sure you are testing the urine for ketones now that you have dropped the dose.....this is important.
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
So do I follow my my vets instructions and give his "normal" 4.5u tonight?
Click to expand...
In my opinion? Absolutely not. That 4.5U dose is way too high for Toes.

If I were you, I'd stick to the 1U dose you gave this morning. If that amount of insulin is not enough, which we won't know for several days, then you can increase the dose. Slowly.

For now, I think you need to keep that reduced 1U dose for at LEAST 6 cycles, until Toes clears the bounce. Maybe longer.

Get more familiar with testing. Get some experience under your belt. Get Toes comfortable with the home testing routine.
Once the insulin is in, you can't take it back out.
Don't think you want to deal with a hypoglycemic episode right now.
Please, put together your hypo toolkit first. That will be just in case Toes drops really low. But better to be prepared before you need that hypo toolkit. Don't forget to include a treat for yourself. Chocolate is highly recommended!

p.s. Bron and I cross posted. Meaning we posted at the same time.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
See if @Deb & Wink answers you re the dose.
If she doesn’t answer, I think I would stick with the 1 unit until you get more data. Test during the cycle as well..try and get a test in during the first half of the cycle at least so we can see how he is doing on the 1 unit.
But make sure you are testing the urine for ketones now that you have dropped the dose.....this is important.
Click to expand...
So I should test him again tonight? Should I do multiple times or just once more? I will have to pick up some ketone strips tomorrow. I will start checking that. Is that a once a day thing? So many questions... sorry!
 
Deb & Wink said:
In my opinion? Absolutely not. That 4.5U dose is way too high for Toes.

If I were you, I'd stick to the 1U dose you gave this morning. If that amount of insulin is not enough, which we won't know for several days, then you can increase the dose. Slowly.

For now, I think you need to keep that reduced 1U dose for at LEAST 6 cycles, until Toes clears the bounce. Maybe longer.

Get more familiar with testing. Get some experience under your belt. Get Toes comfortable with the home testing routine.
Once the insulin is in, you can't take it back out.
Don't think you want to deal with a hypoglycemic episode right now.
Please, put together your hypo toolkit first. That will be just in case Toes drops really low. But better to be prepared before you need that hypo toolkit. Don't forget to include a treat for yourself. Chocolate is highly recommended!

p.s. Bron and I cross posted. Meaning we posted at the same time.
Click to expand...
Ok. I will give him the 1u for tonight
Should I test him before I go to sleep tonight as well? Thank you so much for all the help. I greatly appreciate it!!!!
 
The only bad question is the one you do not ask.

Yes, you test Toe before every insulin shot. Then again later in each cycle.
For the evening, it's good to try for a test after the pre-shot and before you head off to sleep. We call that the "before bed" test.

Once a day ketone test would be fine. Tips for you on catching a urine sample.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub
 
Deb & Wink said:
The only bad question is the one you do not ask.

Yes, you test Toe before every insulin shot. Then again later in each cycle.
For the evening, it's good to try for a test after the pre-shot and before you head off to sleep. We call that the "before bed" test.

Once a day ketone test would be fine. Tips for you on catching a urine sample.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub
Click to expand...
With my work schedule, I won't be able to test him later in the evenings "before bed". My schedule is 645pm-7am with a 40min drive to and from work. My boyfriend is comfortable giving his insulin, but he already said he will not test his glucose. I told him about pulling his food 2 hours before I get home. He does wake up early for work. I can get up midday to get a reading and then go back to sleep. Then get a PMPS before I leave again for work.
 
Deb & Wink said:
The only bad question is the one you do not ask.

Yes, you test Toe before every insulin shot. Then again later in each cycle.
For the evening, it's good to try for a test after the pre-shot and before you head off to sleep. We call that the "before bed" test.

Once a day ketone test would be fine. Tips for you on catching a urine sample.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub
Click to expand...


Haven't had the chance to test for ketones yet, I bought the strips this morning... He was going towards the litter box and I tried to be sneaky but I think he saw me and walked away.. Taking a nap before work tonight, but hopefully I can get a reading before I leave... It is hard to watch him because we have 3 litter boxes in the house.. One tough kitteh!!! I also updated his spreadsheet today. I will be checking him once more before I leave for work tonight. Hope everyone is staying warm and had a great day!
 
Nicole, you do the best you can. From what I can see, you are doing exactly that so kudos to you.

FYI We want to keep all recommendations public, so other people can see what is going on. Violation of the terms of service here to give recommendations privately. I don't think too many people read through all that, and just want help for their cat. No worries here is what I'm saying.

Here is what you asked me:
"So, since yesterday I have just given Toe's 1u BID with his #'s running in the 200's. I just had a question.. Is that too drastic of a drop in the dosage since he was getting 4.5u BID and would it be better to just give half of his "prescribed" dose? I don't want the vet to get upset with what I am doing. I plan on showing her my spreadsheet next Thursday at my appointment. But I don't want her to get mad about me changing his dose by myself.. I am just scared and overwhelmed.... I have been giving him the higher carb food for one of his 2 feedings, but with his numbers in the high 200's, is it better to give the lower pate twice a day? I won't be able to test him as much the next 5 days because I work 7pm-7am with a 40min drive to and from work.. that leaves me at home from 8am-530pm every time I work. My boyfriend knows how to give him his insulin shots, but straight up told me he is not comfortable testing him and won't do it.. I am just at a loss. I am also scared I won't be able to get a ketone test on him once a day with having to work now.

I really do appreaciate all the help and guidance everyone has given me thus far.

Thank you! and hopefully that all makes sense!!"
 
Deb & Wink said:
Nicole, you do the best you can. From what I can see, you are doing exactly that so kudos to you.

FYI We want to keep all recommendations public, so other people can see what is going on. Violation of the terms of service here to give recommendations privately. I don't think too many people read through all that, and just want help for their cat. No worries here is what I'm saying.

Here is what you asked me:
"So, since yesterday I have just given Toe's 1u BID with his #'s running in the 200's. I just had a question.. Is that too drastic of a drop in the dosage since he was getting 4.5u BID and would it be better to just give half of his "prescribed" dose? I don't want the vet to get upset with what I am doing. I plan on showing her my spreadsheet next Thursday at my appointment. But I don't want her to get mad about me changing his dose by myself.. I am just scared and overwhelmed.... I have been giving him the higher carb food for one of his 2 feedings, but with his numbers in the high 200's, is it better to give the lower pate twice a day? I won't be able to test him as much the next 5 days because I work 7pm-7am with a 40min drive to and from work.. that leaves me at home from 8am-530pm every time I work. My boyfriend knows how to give him his insulin shots, but straight up told me he is not comfortable testing him and won't do it.. I am just at a loss. I am also scared I won't be able to get a ketone test on him once a day with having to work now.

I really do appreaciate all the help and guidance everyone has given me thus far.

Thank you! and hopefully that all makes sense!!"
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Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize. Thanks for letting me know!
 
No worries Nicole. Here is more of what I wanted to say in response to what you had asked me.

Those are pretty darn good BG numbers for today 2/12/21. Low blues are excellent. I'd let your vet get mad at you if that is what it takes to keep Toes safe.

The pre-shot tests are usually the last BG numbers to come back down. Which is why getting some mid-cycle tests is key. I realize that is going to be very difficult for you to do with your job. So like I said, do the best you can.

You might consider a +11 or a +10 for the AM cycle, on those days you are headed off to work nights. Yes, we understand about significant others not being willing or able to test. So you work around that fact in different ways, whenever you can.

I do NOT think the reduction from 4.5U to 1U was too drastic a drop in the dosage amount for Toes. He may need his dose to be increased later. But we'll come to that bridge when we come to it. No use "counting your chickens before they are hatched."

I'm betting with your job as a respiratory therapist that you are in really high demand these days. Sending hugs to you and hoping you know how essential you are to all those YOU help. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Forgot to answer the question about the food.

I'd continue to give Toes the higher carb food for now, along with the low carb food as snacks. Eventually, if you can move to all low carb food, that is likely to bring Toes BG levels down even more. But let's keep him safe for now, and continue to feed him some of the higher carb food.

p.s. We've thrown an awful lot of information your way. When you have time, going back and reviewing what has been said, and looking at some of those "Sticky" pinned posts from over in the Prozinc ISG would be good.
 
Deb & Wink said:
No worries Nicole. Here is more of what I wanted to say in response to what you had asked me.

Those are pretty darn good BG numbers for today 2/12/21. Low blues are excellent. I'd let your vet get mad at you if that is what it takes to keep Toes safe.

The pre-shot tests are usually the last BG numbers to come back down. Which is why getting some mid-cycle tests is key. I realize that is going to be very difficult for you to do with your job. So like I said, do the best you can.

You might consider a +11 or a +10 for the AM cycle, on those days you are headed off to work nights. Yes, we understand about significant others not being willing or able to test. So you work around that fact in different ways, whenever you can.

I do NOT think the reduction from 4.5U to 1U was too drastic a drop in the dosage amount for Toes. He may need his dose to be increased later. But we'll come to that bridge when we come to it. No use "counting your chickens before they are hatched."

I'm betting with your job as a respiratory therapist that you are in really high demand these days. Sending hugs to you and hoping you know how essential you are to all those YOU help. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thank you! I was happy with those numbers as well! His numbers might be a bit off the next few days because he is a mammas boy lol. And he can be stubborn when my bf tries to feed him sometimes. So hopefully things will go well! Should I consider his last BS before I leave for work at almost 6pm as his PMPS? That would be his last check for the night until I get home at 8am the next morning.

And work is definitely more stressful these days! Thanks so much, I appreciate it!
 
Yes, I would consider that last BG test before you head off to work as the equivalent of your PMPS. Not ideal, but it's what you are able to do.
I'd still record that last test in the correct + column on the SS, before the actual PMPS column on the SS. So if that is 9 hours after Toe's morning insulin shot, then record that test in the +9 column on the left most side (the AMPS side) of the SS. If it's more like 10 hours, then please put it in the +10 column.

A note over in the Remarks column, that indicates that is the only test possible would be helpful, to other people looking at the SS and wondering why there are no tests for the PMPS cycle. Just a simple note that you are working in the PM, away for 12-14 hours or so.

Eventually you'll need to transition Toe to all low carb wet food. But I'd wait to do that until you are home for a few days and can test.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Yes, I would consider that last BG test before you head off to work as the equivalent of your PMPS. Not ideal, but it's what you are able to do.
I'd still record that last test in the correct + column on the SS, before the actual PMPS column on the SS. So if that is 9 hours after Toe's morning insulin shot, then record that test in the +9 column on the left most side (the AMPS side) of the SS. If it's more like 10 hours, then please put it in the +10 column.

A note over in the Remarks column, that indicates that is the only test possible would be helpful, to other people looking at the SS and wondering why there are no tests for the PMPS cycle. Just a simple note that you are working in the PM, away for 12-14 hours or so.

Eventually you'll need to transition Toe to all low carb wet food. But I'd wait to do that until you are home for a few days and can test.
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I fixed my spreadsheet to reflect the last test beforeI leave for work. I just put "work 7p-7a" in the PMPS column. He has been getting a mixture of the low carb and high carb. The other night I had him fed half pate/half gravy.
 
Try not to lose heart, Nicole. If it's any small comfort to you, we've seen cats here running much higher. You've got a very tough schedule and the tiredness doesn't do one's mood any favours. :( Hang in there, and have some of these:

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Nicole - Toe's mom said:
I'm tired and just want to cry...
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Then go right ahead sweetie. We've all been there.

Do something fun for yourself, or have a special treat. Do something you love, even if it's vegging out with an old movie on the tv as you fall asleep. Yoga with Adrienne is one of my go to's. Relaxing and decompressing and letting go of the stresses of the day. Here is a nice 7 minute "Bedtime" yoga routine.

"Always find time for the things that make you feel happy to be alive."
 
Deb & Wink said:
Then go right ahead sweetie. We've all been there.

Do something fun for yourself, or have a special treat. Do something you love, even if it's vegging out with an old movie on the tv as you fall asleep. Yoga with Adrienne is one of my go to's. Relaxing and decompressing and letting go of the stresses of the day. Here is a nice 7 minute "Bedtime" yoga routine.

"Always find time for the things that make you feel happy to be alive."
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Thanks Deb! I really appreciate it. I just think it was from his numbers creeping up, having to work this long stretch and lack of sleep.. I just got very exhausted.. I am off for a bunch of days coming up so that should help a bit.. Toes snuggled on my chest today which really comforted me. He usually does this, but the past few days he has been sleeping at the foot of the bed. I think I was just worrying about him. I still haven't had the chance to test his ketones yet.. But I will still try, especially being off a bit.
 
Critter Mom said:
Try not to lose heart, Nicole. If it's any small comfort to you, we've seen cats here running much higher. You've got a very tough schedule and the tiredness doesn't do one's mood any favours. :( Hang in there, and have some of these:

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
.
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Thank you! Lack of sleep and stressing about his numbers really did me in... I am off a bit, so hopefully I can be more at ease with everything! Testing is very stressful when I have to work the hours I do.. I definately need all the hugs! <3
 
Hey Nicole, if you see this in time, could you get a +3 today too please? I'm not seeing a food bump from this mornings LC food and he's dropping a little quick for a +2, nothing alarming but we should still be cautious since we don't have a whole lot of data yet. Want to make sure he doesn't start dropping any faster because the insulin is just starting to kick in.
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Hey Nicole, if you see this in time, could you get a +3 today too please? I'm not seeing a food bump from this mornings LC food and he's dropping a little quick for a +2, nothing alarming but we should still be cautious since we don't have a whole lot of data yet. Want to make sure he doesn't start dropping any faster because the insulin is just starting to kick in.
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I can get one right now..
 
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