Hoped and prayed I would never be here again!

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

I’m back after nearly 6 years with a real problem kitty. I’ve been feeding a stray cat for close to a year and he pretty much lives here. He has trust issues but always easy going. The hope was to have him neutered and bring him inside. Last week I saw his paw all swollen and not putting any weight on it. I tricked him into a carrier and went to the vet. He turned totally feral on them! They had to gas him down before they could handle him. Pre op bloodwork showed BG at 315! He stayed there a few days to heal from the neuter and another BG check was 399! The vet recommended I euthanize.

He has always been sweet with me but I could only lightly pet him. At this point giving insulin or home testing is out of the question. I have him inside now in a room by himself and he seems very relaxed. I want to try to work with him and see if he comes around so I can handle him. I just couldn’t give up on him. Maybe the wrong decision for him as there is no telling how long I have before it kills him. I am just heartsick. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

I’m back after nearly 6 years with a real problem kitty. I’ve been feeding a stray cat for close to a year and he pretty much lives here. He has trust issues but always easy going. The hope was to have him neutered and bring him inside. Last week I saw his paw all swollen and not putting any weight on it. I tricked him into a carrier and went to the vet. He turned totally feral on them! They had to gas him down before they could handle him. Pre op bloodwork showed BG at 315! He stayed there a few days to heal from the neuter and another BG check was 399! The vet recommended I euthanize.

He has always been sweet with me but I could only lightly pet him. At this point giving insulin or home testing is out of the question. I have him inside now in a room by himself and he seems very relaxed. I want to try to work with him and see if he comes around so I can handle him. I just couldn’t give up on him. Maybe the wrong decision for him as there is no telling how long I have before it kills him. I am just heartsick. Anyone have any thoughts?

Gail, I do not have the knowledge to advise you as I just signed on to this site in December. Until you hear from those that are experienced I would just recommend a low carb wet food for this kitty. What has he been eating? You need to earn his trust. Sounds like you have been here before so you probably already know that. I don't know where you live but if in the US how about the FF Classic Pate. Maybe all the stress from the vets made his BG soar. Sounds like he is in a much more calm environment now thanks to you. Sounds like he needs time to decompress. Hopefully, you will hear from the experts soon. God bless you for trying to help this kitty. I'll look forward to hearing what the experts say about trying to treat a feral with diabetes. Don't give up on this boy.

 

[Gill & Mac (UK)]

I’m back after nearly 6 years with a real problem kitty. I’ve been feeding a stray cat for close to a year and he pretty much lives here. He has trust issues but always easy going. The hope was to have him neutered and bring him inside. Last week I saw his paw all swollen and not putting any weight on it. I tricked him into a carrier and went to the vet. He turned totally feral on them! They had to gas him down before they could handle him. Pre op bloodwork showed BG at 315! He stayed there a few days to heal from the neuter and another BG check was 399! The vet recommended I euthanize.

He has always been sweet with me but I could only lightly pet him. At this point giving insulin or home testing is out of the question. I have him inside now in a room by himself and he seems very relaxed. I want to try to work with him and see if he comes around so I can handle him. I just couldn’t give up on him. Maybe the wrong decision for him as there is no telling how long I have before it kills him. I am just heartsick. Anyone have any thoughts?

People with more experience than me will no doubt have ideas for you. But I just wanted to say bless you for being willing to try to help this kitty when do many just wouldn't bother.
I know stress badly affects BG so fingers crossed that made it look even higher than usual
I often wonder what would have happened if it had been Lady or Zebbi that became diabetic instead of Mac - Lady is a little wotsit to tablet or flea treat & Zebbi is a ex-stray who is loving but can't be picked up. I like to think we would get there with time so I will keep everything crossed for you.
If nothing else he is getting food, warmth & love for as long as you can

Gill

 

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

Gail, I do not have the knowledge to advise you as I just signed on to this site in December. Until you hear from those that are experienced I would just recommend a low carb wet food for this kitty. What has he been eating? You need to earn his trust. Sounds like you have been here before so you probably already know that. I don't know where you live but if in the US how about the FF Classic Pate. Maybe all the stress from the vets made his BG soar. Sounds like he is in a much more calm environment now thanks to you. Sounds like he needs time to decompress. Hopefully, you will hear from the experts soon. God bless you for trying to help this kitty. I'll look forward to hearing what the experts say about trying to treat a feral with diabetes. Don't give up on this boy.

Thanks for the well wishes. I already got out the food chart - low carb FF. Who knows what the vet was feeding him. Probably a big bowl of high carb dry food. Good luck with your kitty.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

I wouod try the low-carb canned and see if you can get near him when eating so you could inject him. I wouod leave BG testing until later. There are many diabetic cats successfully treated without at-home BG testing. You have to observe how much he drinks and urinates. Also, maybe you could check his urine for glucose (and ketones too). You always want a little glucose in the urine to help ensure that his BG is not going too low.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Thanks for the well wishes. I already got out the food chart - low carb FF. Who knows what the vet was feeding him. Probably a big bowl of high carb dry food. Good luck with your kitty.

Thanks for your well-wishes for my Susie. I am truly surprised that vets will recommend high carb food - especially dry. I think it is really, really important to do the testing at home but obviously it is not in the cards at this time. If you can't really interact with this cat then just go with the low carb food until you gain his trust. As Larry said, watch the urine output and water intake. Hopefully, this sweet boy will come around so you can get some insulin in him and test.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

@Marje and Gracie, @Panic, @JanetNK, @Mogs - can someone address this woman's comment?

 

[Marje and Gracie]

I’d like to echo everyone’s thanks for doing this for this boy.

I would definitely start on the low carb food but you won’t have any idea of whether that is working for him without testing him or taking him back to the vet. Unfortunately, “some” of that high BG could be the super high amount of stress a feral cat would feel at the vet. Did they, by chance, do a fructosamine which would have give you an idea of whether this had been an ongoing thing? We actually had a kitty here for a while whose caregiver had to occasionally take him with her when she distance-worked, and his BG would shoot up like crazy. In fact, he did go into remission and when she would take him, his BG would go from beautifully normal numbers to the 300s. So, stress can really boost the BG. Here is Leo’s SS that you can look at; thankfully, Lisa marked the days she had to take him with her and you can see the effect on his BG.

I’m not saying to assume that is happening to this kitty but the best thing would be to try and feed him LC for 5-7 days and then try, as Larry suggested, to test his urine glucose. The only downside is that he could be below renal threshold and not spilling glucose but still be in abnormal numbers. I would also urge you to check his urine ketones every day while feeding him LC. Does he act like a diabetic cat? Lethargic? Hungry but very thin?

If you find that he is spilling glucose in his urine, even giving him a very low dose of Lantus like 0.5u could help him. I’m going to tag @Mariette because she had a feral she was caring for. He had some severe mange and other issues and she was able to get him where she could treat him, can handle him, test him, inject him. She might have some very good information and advice. I know we’ve also had members with extremely fractious cats that were able to test and shoot by burritoing them. Here is a great video showing that.

 

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

I wouod try the low-carb canned and see if you can get near him when eating so you could inject him. I wouod leave BG testing until later. There are many diabetic cats successfully treated without at-home BG testing. You have to observe how much he drinks and urinates. Also, maybe you could check his urine for glucose (and ketones too). You always want a little glucose in the urine to help ensure that his BG is not going too low.

Right now I doubt I could get insulin into to him, maybe soon tho. Without knowing what his BG is on low carb food and in a calmer setting I would not even know what dose to start at.

 

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

I’d like to echo everyone’s thanks for doing this for this boy.

I would definitely start on the low carb food but you won’t have any idea of whether that is working for him without testing him or taking him back to the vet. Unfortunately, “some” of that high BG could be the super high amount of stress a feral cat would feel at the vet. Did they, by chance, do a fructosamine which would have give you an idea of whether this had been an ongoing thing? We actually had a kitty here for a while whose caregiver had to occasionally take him with her when she distance-worked, and his BG would shoot up like crazy. In fact, he did go into remission and when she would take him, his BG would go from beautifully normal numbers to the 300s. So, stress can really boost the BG. Here is Leo’s SS that you can look at; thankfully, Lisa marked the days she had to take him with her and you can see the effect on his BG.

I’m not saying to assume that is happening to this kitty but the best thing would be to try and feed him LC for 5-7 days and then try, as Larry suggested, to test his urine glucose. The only downside is that he could be below renal threshold and not spilling glucose but still be in abnormal numbers. I would also urge you to check his urine ketones every day while feeding him LC. Does he act like a diabetic cat? Lethargic? Hungry but very thin?

If you find that he is spilling glucose in his urine, even giving him a very low dose of Lantus like 0.5u could help him. I’m going to tag @Mariette because she had a feral she was caring for. He had some severe mange and other issues and she was able to get him where she could treat him, can handle him, test him, inject him. She might have some very good information and advice. I know we’ve also had members with extremely fractious cats that were able to test and shoot by burritoing them. Here is a great video showing that.

I know stress can be a big factor in BG levels but the most I saw with Houdini was 100 pts. No fructosamine test. I will try to check his urine for sure but so far I have not been in the room when he goes. He does not act like a diabetic so I was super surprised when the vet told me. Not super hungry but a good appetite, no abnormal water consumption. He is long haired (Main Coon in there somewhere?) and his coat looked good before he went to the vet so it's hard to tell if he is thin but he weighs 12 lbs. He is a little lethargic but he has only been home 24 hours .

 

[Mariette]

Buddy's my diabetic ex-feral. I also finally brought him in after a bad limp. We have coyotes here and I could see that he wasn't going to be able to survive out there. Fortunately when that happened I had already put in a good amount of work with him to the point where I could pet him. But only as long as he didn't see the arm or hand. He enjoyed the sensation but as soon as he saw my hand or arm he would freak out. So for Buddy the way I got him used to being touched was by not letting him see. So I'd approach when he was facing away. I wish I had filmed the initial technique with a broom but I needed two hands for the technique - I'd hold a broom in one hand to keep as a shield when he attacked.

I can't imagine it would have been possible giving insulin or doing tests right after I brought him in. Fortunately we had a good 8 months before he was diagnosed with diabetes.

Initially we also kept him in a confined area... we had the kitchen blocked off. I slept in there with him for the first month or two while he calmed down and got used to the litter boxes. I woke up when I heard him looking for a spot and would put him in a box. Initially he would go anywhere but a littler box. I had four big boxes with all varieties set out in the kitchen. With leaves and ground, with shredded newspaper. He only started using them after I repeatedly put him in a box when he wanted to pee.

I've tried the burrito technique on Buddy and he didn't like it at all. It made him very suspicious and anxious. Just wanted to get free. It actually took us much longer to get the shots down than the tests. Maybe his ears are a bit numb due to the mange. But if he's sleepy everything is much easier. Shots as well. If Buddy's sleeping I can test or give the shot with him barely noticing. It might be worth to try testing while your guy is sleeping?

Also just spending as much time as possible around him without coming at him will help a lot. Just so he can see you're safe to be around. It bonded Buddy and I very quickly after he came in.

I'm glad that your guy's blood sugar was not so high. Buddy was sky high initially and there was no way that a food change alone was going to be enough. Hopefully when your guy's not so stressed and with the food change his numbers will come back in line.

Here are a few clips of last year with Buddy:

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

I agree that the stress from being at the vet and possibly pain from the foot probably contributed to the higher numbers. I would start with the low carb food first while you gain his trust. Was he already neutered or did they neuter him while he was out? That may also help calm his personality.

You can also get the ketone test strips to try to monitor his urine for any ketones. It's not the best way to monitor glucose levels, but at least it may help some.

 

[JL and Chip]

Hi Gail! Nice to see you again and welcome back!

I’m so, so glad you’re helping this kitty out. The world needs more people like you. I absolutely wouldn’t have given up on him either.

I have worked with quite a few feral over the years so I feel for what you’re up against.

First, I wouldn’t trust a diagnosis of diabetes based solely on two tests taken at a clinic, especially in a feral. Without either a fructosamine or home testing after the cat has settled in, it could be a falsely elevated reading based on stress. One of my civvies (a former stray why is still a tad bit skittish) threw me a 386 when I ran her in for blood work one time. The next day at home she was 70 (confirmed on multiple ensuing days). I’ve never seen such a crazy stress reaction, but apparently it can happen.

My other thought is that you could conceivably be seeing at least some elevation based on a possible infection in the foot.

Last year, I had two feral males lurking around whose trust I ultimately earned over a long period of time. I could touch and pet both and even pick them up, but I was the only one who could really handle them. Eventually, each got a turn getting shoved into a cat carrier and hauled to the vet to be neutered and vaccinated. And both turned into absolute screaming, wall-climbing, wild-eyed, Tasmanian Devils at the clinic. One even escaped his cage after surgery (my vet does a lot of feral spay/neuter for me, so they’re not inexperienced), and the other cat was so amped up the vet had a hard time getting and keeping him sedated long enough to do the neuter. I actually had to go into the back room to transfer one into the carrier to go home because he was so ferocious, no one wanted to handle him (he let me put him in the carrier just fine, but I did it fast). I didn’t run blood work on either of them other than FeLV/FIV testing, but I’d put money that both probably had elevated blood glucose under the circumstances. Fight-or-flight tends to do that.

So bottom line, I’d be very hesitant to start insulin until you can somehow get a test or two at home to see what the BG really is in a calm setting. Even a urine test is better than nothing (do you happen to have one of the slotted litter boxes that used to be sold on FDMB?). The Saran Wrap trick works too.

If it comes to insulin injections, then I think there are probably a few tricks to handling that too. But I think it’s a good sign that you’re not seeing clinical symptoms, so hopefully low-carb food and a quiet environment is all you need.

 

[Summer and Susie (GA)]

Buddy's my diabetic ex-feral. I also finally brought him in after a bad limp. We have coyotes here and I could see that he wasn't going to be able to survive out there. Fortunately when that happened I had already put in a good amount of work with him to the point where I could pet him. But only as long as he didn't see the arm or hand. He enjoyed the sensation but as soon as he saw my hand or arm he would freak out. So for Buddy the way I got him used to being touched was by not letting him see. So I'd approach when he was facing away. I wish I had filmed the initial technique with a broom but I needed two hands for the technique - I'd hold a broom in one hand to keep as a shield when he attacked.

I can't imagine it would have been possible giving insulin or doing tests right after I brought him in. Fortunately we had a good 8 months before he was diagnosed with diabetes.

Initially we also kept him in a confined area... we had the kitchen blocked off. I slept in there with him for the first month or two while he calmed down and got used to the litter boxes. I woke up when I heard him looking for a spot and would put him in a box. Initially he would go anywhere but a littler box. I had four big boxes with all varieties set out in the kitchen. With leaves and ground, with shredded newspaper. He only started using them after I repeatedly put him in a box when he wanted to pee.

I've tried the burrito technique on Buddy and he didn't like it at all. It made him very suspicious and anxious. Just wanted to get free. It actually took us much longer to get the shots down than the tests. Maybe his ears are a bit numb due to the mange. But if he's sleepy everything is much easier. Shots as well. If Buddy's sleeping I can test or give the shot with him barely noticing. It might be worth to try testing while your guy is sleeping?

Also just spending as much time as possible around him without coming at him will help a lot. Just so he can see you're safe to be around. It bonded Buddy and I very quickly after he came in.

I'm glad that your guy's blood sugar was not so high. Buddy was sky high initially and there was no way that a food change alone was going to be enough. Hopefully when your guy's not so stressed and with the food change his numbers will come back in line.

Here are a few clips of last year with Buddy:

You are a Saint to have taken in this poor kitty.

 

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

Hi Gail! Nice to see you again and welcome back!

I’m so, so glad you’re helping this kitty out. The world needs more people like you. I absolutely wouldn’t have given up on him either.

I have worked with quite a few feral over the years so I feel for what you’re up against.

First, I wouldn’t trust a diagnosis of diabetes based solely on two tests taken at a clinic, especially in a feral. Without either a fructosamine or home testing after the cat has settled in, it could be a falsely elevated reading based on stress. One of my civvies (a former stray why is still a tad bit skittish) threw me a 386 when I ran her in for blood work one time. The next day at home she was 70 (confirmed on multiple ensuing days). I’ve never seen such a crazy stress reaction, but apparently it can happen.

My other thought is that you could conceivably be seeing at least some elevation based on a possible infection in the foot.

Last year, I had two feral males lurking around whose trust I ultimately earned over a long period of time. I could touch and pet both and even pick them up, but I was the only one who could really handle them. Eventually, each got a turn getting shoved into a cat carrier and hauled to the vet to be neutered and vaccinated. And both turned into absolute screaming, wall-climbing, wild-eyed, Tasmanian Devils at the clinic. One even escaped his cage after surgery (my vet does a lot of feral spay/neuter for me, so they’re not inexperienced), and the other cat was so amped up the vet had a hard time getting and keeping him sedated long enough to do the neuter. I actually had to go into the back room to transfer one into the carrier to go home because he was so ferocious, no one wanted to handle him (he let me put him in the carrier just fine, but I did it fast). I didn’t run blood work on either of them other than FeLV/FIV testing, but I’d put money that both probably had elevated blood glucose under the circumstances. Fight-or-flight tends to do that.

So bottom line, I’d be very hesitant to start insulin until you can somehow get a test or two at home to see what the BG really is in a calm setting. Even a urine test is better than nothing (do you happen to have one of the slotted litter boxes that used to be sold on FDMB?). The Saran Wrap trick works too.

If it comes to insulin injections, then I think there are probably a few tricks to handling that too. But I think it’s a good sign that you’re not seeing clinical symptoms, so hopefully low-carb food and a quiet environment is all you need.

Thanks for the insight. I really hope that was a false reading ! I guess he was a terror at the vets and I got the impression that the vet (not my regular vet) really didn't want to bother with him. "just a feral, diabetic and doomed" I have him in a huge cage with a carrier where he sleeps and he is sleeping a lot. I will let him out in a few days to roam around the room. He seems to be starving tho 4 cans of FF yesterday! I petted him a little while he was eating and he took some treats (freeze dried chicken and bonito flakes) out of my hand. So some progress anyway.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

ZIf you are going to use urine test strips make sure you get one that measure both ketones and glucose in the urine. One brand is Bayer's Keto-Diastix. You can get less expensive pharmacy bramd ones too. You can also get test strips that only measure ketones just be aware.

 

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

ZIf you are going to use urine test strips make sure you get one that measure both ketones and glucose in the urine. One brand is Bayer's Keto-Diastix. You can get less expensive pharmacy bramd ones too. You can also get test strips that only measure ketones just be aware.

Thanks ! Have used them before.

 

[Gail & Houdini (GA)]

So bottom line, I’d be very hesitant to start insulin until you can somehow get a test or two at home to see what the BG really is in a calm setting. Even a urine test is better than nothing (do you happen to have one of the slotted litter boxes that used to be sold on FDMB?). The Saran Wrap trick works too.

Please point me in the direction of the Saran Wrap thing.....I never had to use it and I can't remember how it goes. Thanks!

 

[Critter Mom]

Please point me in the direction of the Saran Wrap thing.....I never had to use it and I can't remember how it goes. Thanks!

It should be in here, Gail:

Tips for collecting urine samples


Mogs
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