? Switching from caninsulin to lantus - feeding habbits

Marina & Chico

Marina & Chico

Member Since 2021
Dear all,

Next week (asap) we will switch from caninsulin to lantus and we will attempt for the tight regulation method. We are nonetheless still struggling with a stable feeding routine. We tried feeding him 2 main meals + 2 + 2 more in between shots nonetheless when on this feeding schedule Chico seems to be anxious due to hunger for most of the day - we started seriously considering increasing his food doses. Today we tried giving him a full 1/2 a day dose of food in the morning with the 1st shot and he is so much more pleased and calm that it seems that his prediabetes feeding schedule is much more suitable for him.

When studying the Tight Regulation protocol we came across the fact that "you will need to feed your cat lots of small meals spread over the day". Can you please help us understand what is the reason for this and what would happen if we had to feed Chico 2 main meals only?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Marina, Denis & Chico
 
Welcome Marina and Chico. To answer your question, small meals help level the cat out and are also used to prevent big drops or drops requiring reductions. Chico is really hungry right now because he’s not regulated. As his bg is consistently in better numbers he won’t be as hungry. The mini meals don’t need to be more than a teaspoon or two so you can feed a larger meal at preshot and then mini meals as needed. Usually you will feed most of the food in the first half if the cycle, before nadir. It will be a little trial and error at first to figure out what works best for Chico.

One difference with Lantus is that you will test, feed, shoot all within about 10 minutes. You won’t need to wait a half hour after injecting to feed him. If ever the AMPS or PMPS is lower than expected, stall, don’t feed, and ask for dosing advice. Test again in about 2 minutes before feeding or shooting to see if the bg is coming up on its own. If still lower than expected, post for help.

Keep asking questions as often as needed. The only rule is one condo a day here so add the ? prefix or change your subject if you have a new question.
 
HI Marina,

Welcome to the board. I switched to lantus recently, and at that point thought I was going to back to work, so was giving Hercules 4 largeish meals, eyeing moving towards 2. As you probably already heard a million times in this board every cat is different! So you can always experiemnt and see what happens. But if you look at Hercs feeding today, we are down to a million little feeds. It makes me nervous because I know I won't be able to keep him like this whenver pandemic is sorted.... but for now, this clearly works much better at keeping his BG stable for much longer (for the reason Elise mentioned). I've learned his onset is after +2, and usually there was a big food bump afte AMPS, so I decided to start slow and feed more, if that makes sense, so he gets more food as the insulin is starting to kick in. About a week a go I was giving him a lot of High carb food in the mid cycle, because I already fed all his food. Fingers crossed, this way I will give him less HC, and hopefully reduce his bouncing, we shall see... is all a big experiment :)
 
When working away from home it’s good to get an auto feeder and set it to g off at the intervals you feed the mini meals. Get him used to one while you are home by feeding all meals using it and guiding him to it. Lots of people use them at night so they can sleep too. @Hercule's mum Have you tried one?
 
I bought an automatic feeder, and we trained Hercs to use. But his civvie buddy was also getting trained....;) So I don't think I can trust he will be the one eating, and they are really good companions to each other, so I don't have the heart to separate them. So waking up it is for now..... ask me again in a few months and I may have bought a camera to see who eats it :rolleyes:
 
Welcome to the Lantus board!!

A couple of thoughts about the switch.
  • Please make sure you have U100 syringes, preferably syringes that are marked in half unit increments. Vetsulin requires a U40 syringe whereas Lantus requires a U100 syringe.
  • Lantus is gentler and has a longer duration than Vetsulin. As Elise noted, you do not need to have food on board with Lantus. While onset for Vetsulin is rapid, Lantus onset is at around +2, although this can vary.
  • You will be able to switch over at the same dose you're using of Vetsulin. If you prefer, you can adjust the dose to a bit less since some cats can have a marked response to a new insulin.
  • Lantus is a depot type of insulin (vs. Vetsulin which is an "in and out" type of insulin). This means a small amount of Lantus is deposited into the fat tissues in a microcrystalline form. This slowly dissolves giving Lantus its duration and overlap with the next shot.
  • Lantus doses are held for a period of time -- this varies depending on which dosing method you opt for. The dose is held to give the depot a chance to stabilize. When starting with Lantus, it can take 5 - 7 days for the depot to form.
  • When you feed depends on your cat. We recommend that you hold food 2 hours prior to shot time so the pre-shot number isn't influenced by food. In general, it's best to not feed after nadir. Once you're past nadir, there's less insulin available to offset the effect of food. (Obviously, this doesn't apply if your cat decides to drop into low numbers.) It your kitty likes to graze, that's fine.
 
@tiffmaxee and @Hercule's mum thank you very much for your answers, it is much clearer now why small snacks and how food given before nadir is used to maintain the BG values in a tighter range.

Lucky us we both have home office for now so we have the possibility to look after him but the automatic feeder really sounds like a lifesaver, we will try it when going back to work will be requirement.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to the Lantus board!!

A couple of thoughts about the switch.
  • Please make sure you have U100 syringes, preferably syringes that are marked in half unit increments. Vetsulin requires a U40 syringe whereas Lantus requires a U100 syringe.
  • Lantus is gentler and has a longer duration than Vetsulin. As Elise noted, you do not need to have food on board with Lantus. While onset for Vetsulin is rapid, Lantus onset is at around +2, although this can vary.
  • You will be able to switch over at the same dose you're using of Vetsulin. If you prefer, you can adjust the dose to a bit less since some cats can have a marked response to a new insulin.
  • Lantus is a depot type of insulin (vs. Vetsulin which is an "in and out" type of insulin). This means a small amount of Lantus is deposited into the fat tissues in a microcrystalline form. This slowly dissolves giving Lantus its duration and overlap with the next shot.
  • Lantus doses are held for a period of time -- this varies depending on which dosing method you opt for. The dose is held to give the depot a chance to stabilize. When starting with Lantus, it can take 5 - 7 days for the depot to form.
  • When you feed depends on your cat. We recommend that you hold food 2 hours prior to shot time so the pre-shot number isn't influenced by food. In general, it's best to not feed after nadir. Once you're past nadir, there's less insulin available to offset the effect of food. (Obviously, this doesn't apply if your cat decides to drop into low numbers.) It your kitty likes to graze, that's fine.
Click to expand...
Thank your very much for your message and for the summary of things to know before the transition. At this moment, we are waiting for the 0.3ml U100 syringes, hopefully they will arrive early next week and we will be able to make the switch.
 
Marina & Chico said:
@tiffmaxee and @Hercule's mum thank you very much for your answers, it is much clearer now why small snacks and how food given before nadir is used to maintain the BG values in a tighter range.

Lucky us we both have home office for now so we have the possibility to look after him but the automatic feeder really sounds like a lifesaver, we will try it when going back to work will be requirement.
Click to expand...

It's really useful to have even if you are working from home, you can programme snacks for him while you sleep:)

And if, for example, you should need to go out to the grocery store, you can leave his snacks programmed in the feeder.

We had one with a voice recording, we recorded our voice calling for George, it got a bit annoying but it did help get him used to the feeder, soon he would react to it just spinning and we turned the voice off.:)
Now since he has been having snacks at regular times and he knows when his snack is due, you could set your watch by him:)

Chico still gettiing those sharp drops on canninsulin. Hopefully the syringes will arrive soon. Paws crossed.
 
Gill & George said:
It's really useful to have even if you are working from home, you can programme snacks for him while you sleep:)

And if, for example, you should need to go out to the grocery store, you can leave his snacks programmed in the feeder.

We had one with a voice recording, we recorded our voice calling for George, it got a bit annoying but it did help get him used to the feeder, soon he would react to it just spinning and we turned the voice off.:)
Now since he has been having snacks at regular times and he knows when his snack is due, you could set your watch by him:)

Chico still gettiing those sharp drops on canninsulin. Hopefully the syringes will arrive soon. Paws crossed.
Click to expand...

yeah he does keep on getting the sharp drops and very early nadirs, it really hurts to see him vary so much. Looking forward to lantus.
 
Marina & Chico said:
yeah he does keep on getting the sharp drops and very early nadirs, it really hurts to see him vary so much. Looking forward to lantus.
Click to expand...
I hope it slows him down, and with the longer duration I hope the curve willl flatten out.
It make take a while to see the benefit from the swap, as it will take a while for the depot to fill. But I am optimistic he will spend more time below the renal threshold.
 
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