2/5 Sandy AMPS 163, 120@+2, 47@+4

Liz & Sandy

Liz & Sandy

Member Since 2021
Gave food and .25 Glargine at PMPS. BG was 124. Have been scanning and BG dropped to 43@+7. He was able to eat a little bit waited 1/2 hour and is now at 70@7.5.
Drops similar to this keep happening if I give shot if he’s under 200. Should I be trying to lower dose?
If so the amount is so tiny already how to I guess less than .25 units?
 
Hi Liza, have you had a look at the link tiffmaxee sent you and found the 0.1unit dosing part?
I am going to talk to @Marje and Gracie about the dose moving forward. I will be back.
In the meantime can you tell me what you have been feeding (what carb food) Sandy during the last couple of cycles.
 
Liza I have spoken to Marje and she thinks we should try the 0.1 Unit dose

Do you think you can get that dose in the syringe OK? It is a fat zero barely touching the line.

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So moving forward you will need to test for the ketones in the urine at least once a day as we need to make sure there are no ketones appearing now that we are dropping the dose.
Try and get him to eat lots of snacks during the cycles (except for the 2 hours preshot) as food helps keep those ketones away.
Keep feeding the higher low carb around 8 to 10% to try and keep Sandy above 90. If he starts to drop give him some higher carb food but we don’t want him up too high. The last three cycles have been great.
We want to keep him on this dose for a while if we can.

It looks like he is most likely going into remission so you will need to get rid of that dry food out of the house because when a cat is in remIssion he is still a diabetic but just a diet controlled one. If you start feeding him higher carb food again, his BGs will go up and he will all out of remission.
Let me know how you go.
 

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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Liza I have spoken to Marje and she thinks we should try the 0.1 Unit dose

Do you think you can get that dose in the syringe OK? It is a fat zero barely touching the line.

View attachment 59653

So moving forward you will need to test for the ketones in the urine at least once a day as we need to make sure there are no ketones appearing now that we are dropping the dose.
Try and get him to eat lots of snacks during the cycles (except for the 2 hours preshot) as food helps keep those ketones away.
Keep feeding the higher low carb around 8 to 10% to try and keep Sandy above 90. If he starts to drop give him some higher carb food but we don’t want him up too high. The last three cycles have been great.
We want to keep him on this dose for a while if we can.

It looks like he is most likely going into remission so you will need to get rid of that dry food out of the house because when a cat is in remIssion he is still a diabetic but just a diet controlled one. If you start feeding him higher carb food again, his BGs will go up and he will all out of remission.
Let me know how you go.
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He’s only had some FF chicken and gravy 12% carbs. Biggest issue is he’s not eating much. I had to give him some Rachel Ray grain free ocean fish & flaked Tuna because he wouldn’t eat anything else. Not sure carb content on it. When he dropped to 43 I put some corn syrup on his gums because I was worried he’d drop lower.
He is now at BG 75, and has 2 hours to go for shot. What is a safe number to shoot at with the .10? If he remains above 80 is it ok to give? And what if he won’t eat again?
 
Liza Morales said:
He’s only had some FF chicken and gravy 12% carbs. Biggest issue is he’s not eating much. I had to give him some Rachel Ray grain free ocean fish & flaked Tuna because he wouldn’t eat anything else. Not sure carb content on it. When he dropped to 43 I put some corn syrup on his gums because I was worried he’d drop lower.
He is now at BG 75, and has 2 hours to go for shot. What is a safe number to shoot at with the .10? If he remains above 80 is it ok to give? And what if he won’t eat again?
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A lot can happen in two hours. If he will eat only the lc food we can add corn syrup to it. Do you think he will eat the higher carbs if it’s mixed with the Rachel Ray? Just a couple teaspoons each time will be enough.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Are you giving cerenia?
I have to go out to a meeting and I have asked @tiffmaxee to look in on you.
Sorry I can’t stay atm
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Yes still on Cerenia, hasn’t thrown up but still just not eating much, licks food and leaves most of it. I made it more soupy and he ate little more, tried that again and wants nothing to do with it. Tried freeze fries crumbled over food doesn’t eat much still.
 
I’d give him a break from food and test an hour from the 7.5. Do you have any ondansetron? It sometimes helps better for nausea and can be given along with cerenia. It works in a different way.
 
tiffmaxee said:
A lot can happen in two hours. If he will eat only the lc food we can add corn syrup to it. Do you think he will eat the higher carbs if it’s mixed with the Rachel Ray? Just a couple teaspoons each time will be enough.
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It was just at the 2 hour cuff off time till shot so I gave him some friskies chicken dinner in gravy and he had about a tablespoon, hopefully that’s enough to bring his number up some for shot time. Just delayed his time by 15 minutes.
And ok I will add the corn syrup for his next meal if he’s still low.
Just seems that he takes these drops if he’s under 200 BG with only .25 units.
Dropping to .10 as advised. What is a safe number to go by for the new lower dose?
If he’s over 100? Over 150?
Thanks for your help
 
With DKA I’d like you to shoot even if 100 but I will check back. If he’s lower than 150, stall and don’t feed until we decide what to do.
 
Yes. Have you practiced drawing up that amount? If he won’t eat let me know. It would be good to give him some of the higher low carb food if he will eat it to prop him up. You need to get a +1 and +2 .. You have plenty of test strips?
 
tiffmaxee said:
Yes. Have you practiced drawing up that amount? If he won’t eat let me know. It would be good to give him some of the higher low carb food if he will eat it to prop him up. You need to get a +1 and +2 .. You have plenty of test strips?
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Ok. And yes I did practice. I have 2 flavors of the 8% carb food that he has had no interest at all with. He’s eating FD turkey and gravy right no and seems to be hungry so crossing my fingers he eats more.
I will get +1 and plus +2.
As far as the testing he has a lifestyle libre on which I just scan. I also have a human meter but when I try and use it it’s giving me error codes every time.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Add some syrup to the food. Can you syringe feed him if he won’t eat.
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He ate about 1 teaspoon of friskies chicken dinner in gravy 13% carbs.
I don’t have syringes to feed that way. And had about 4 soft irresistibles treats. I also put some syrup on his gums
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you still have cerenia Liza for him?
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After this has happened now so many times I don’t know what to do with what’s going on. He keeps dropping with any amount I give him and I don’t know if I feel comfortable continuing to give more insulin given I canny see to get his number up high enough to make the shot safe. Only food he has no problem eating is the dry and he won’t even eat that right know. I don’t want to force feed him either as I’m afraid that will make him throw up.
 
You will need to keep getting food into him every 30 for several hours until he’s high enough to stop. I know you are exhausted.
 
Liza Morales said:
After this has happened now so many times I don’t know what to do with what’s going on. He keeps dropping with any amount I give him and I don’t know if I feel comfortable continuing to give more insulin given I canny see to get his number up high enough to make the shot safe. Only food he has no problem eating is the dry and he won’t even eat that right know. I don’t want to force feed him either as I’m afraid that will make him throw up.
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I can understand your worries. just concentrate on keeping him up this cycle and I will tag @Marje and Gracie about moving forward.
We really need him to be eating well before we stop insulin.
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
That’s good



How long since he ate these foods?
Is his next BG due soon?
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I can understand your worries. just concentrate on keeping him up this cycle and I will speak with Marje about moving forward.
We really need him to be eating well before we stop insulin.
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I don’t understand all the i go too much much my concern has been the drops he’s had on such a small amount of insulin. I am constantly up barely getting sleep giving him small amounts of food almost every hour so his numbers don’t keep dropping once this happens. I just scanned just no and he’s at 43. So he’s gone down more. He’s bouncing between 43 +50 and can t get him to eat enough. Other than the dry food, which seems to be the only food that gets his numbers higher and keeps it there, I’ve tried about 15 different types of food that he is being super picky with. I put syrup in the food and he find t have much of it. So I rubbed some on his gums to see if his number will come up
 
Ask the vet if you can get a RX for ondansetron, a human drug that works even better for nausea for many cats. It’s what I gave Max mostly. It can be given every 8 hours as needed.
 
If all he will eat is the dry food I would give him some. The syrup doesn’t stay with him as long as food will. The .25 dose is effecting this cycle. If he will eat well you won’t have the issue with dropping as much. :bighug:
 
Another thing that might help is another human medication I gave Max. It’s an antihistamine that also is RX called cyproheptadine.. with cats it acts as an appetite stimulant. It can be given as needed. Just a sliver worked for Max much of the time. Vets like to give mirtazapine but if cyproheptadine works I prefer it as it can be given twice a day and has fewer side effects.
 
tiffmaxee said:
If all he will eat is the dry food I would give him some. The syrup doesn’t stay with him as long as food will. The .25 dose is effecting this cycle. If he will eat well you won’t have the issue with dropping as much. :bighug:
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That’s what live had to fue last few cycles because he just won’t eat much of the wet food. And because I was trying not to give him much it was a struggle to get him past 200.
I know it’s not ideal to be above 200 the goal is to get him down. But if I shoot below this number this starts to happen and it’s very frustrating knowing not to give him dry but it’s the only food that will work fo him to stay in a safe range (for him) to shoot. I know that’s not what happening with other cats but I believe this is the 4th to 5th times it’s happened with him. Now that he is this low I will just be up all night and all day monitoring him. This just isn’t working for him or me, I’m very frustrated following instructions as best I can and then his numbers drop like this
 
tiffmaxee said:
Another thing that might help is another human medication I gave Max. It’s an antihistamine that also is RX called cyproheptadine.. with cats it acts as an appetite stimulant. It can be given as needed. Just a sliver worked for Max much of the time. Vets like to give mirtazapine but if cyproheptadine works I prefer it as it can be given twice a day and has fewer side effects.
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He’s on an appetite stimulant called Miratz at the moment. I run it on his ear once a day
 
I totally understand your frustration. The exhaustion doesn’t help either. Will he eat chicken? I wonder if a gently cooked diet would work for him? Have you tried baby food?
 
tiffmaxee said:
I totally understand your frustration. The exhaustion doesn’t help either. Will he eat chicken? I wonder if a gently cooked diet would work for him? Have you tried baby food?
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I have tried plain cooked chicken and he won’t eat it, won’t even try. I haven’t tried baby food, any kind you recommend?
 
Yes. All my cats have liked Gerbers 2nds ham believe it or not. It also ones in turkey, beef, and chicken. One of my would not eat the chicken. It’s 100% protein with some cornstarch. They didn’t like other brands. Another thing to try is chicken livers which you can sauté in a frying pan. Have you tried any of the freeze dried raw foods? I feed my current two Primal and Small Batch frozen but Primal makes freeze dried.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Yes. All my cats have liked Gerbers 2nds ham believe it or not. It also ones in turkey, beef, and chicken. One of my would not eat the chicken. It’s 100% protein with some cornstarch. They didn’t like other brands. Another thing to try is chicken livers which you can sauté in a frying pan. Have you tried any of the freeze dried raw foods? I feed my current two Primal and Small Batch frozen but Primal makes freeze dried.
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Yes I tried putting some crushed freeze dried on his food today and he grazes the top and that’s it. I don’t know how many more cans of food I can open for him to try and not like is going to grab some of the baby food tomorrow and see if he likes it. Is tha enough carbs you think to keep his numbers more stable?
 
Liza Morales said:
Yes I tried putting some crushed freeze dried on his food today and he grazes the top and that’s it. I don’t know how many more cans of food I can open for him to try and not like is going to grab some of the baby food tomorrow and see if he likes it. Is tha enough carbs you think to keep his numbers more stable?
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The baby food isn’t a complete food but will work in a pinch and you can add syrup to it to get carbs into him. If he will eat freeze dried there are some that are 100% nutritionally complete like Primal and even Stella and Chewy’s.
 
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