Would love some help with low carb/carb free food please :)

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Alunny

Member Since 2021
Hi! I'm looking for carb free or seriously low carb foods with limited ingredients for my boy. I'm having a lot of trouble finding things especially within a price range I can afford, and since he's got food allergies we need to only give him products with one type of meat per meal so we can monitor him (as his allergy is in the process of diagnosis at this time) and limited ingredients. So far he's okay with chicken but not with fish so that's made it a little harder.

Can anyone help me find something with preferably no grains or starches....or can someone help me learn how to make my own food for him? I'm happy to do it I just can't find anything without adding vitamins which doesn't make sense to me, if his natural diet is meat why do I have to add vitamins shouldn't I be feeding him enough that I don't have to add vitamins? Am I wrong?

I just want him to be healthy and happy. Due to this allergy we switched his food as instructed by the vet and now he's got warning signs for T2D. The vet thinks it's no big deal but it really is, the food he gave him is awful. I wish we stopped it sooner but I thought it was only going to be for a couple of months and his allergy was so severe he had to go in for a surgery so I thought I was doing the right thing. Please help! Right now he's eating Delicare dry food and Applaws Chicken Breast but I want him to eat what he's supposed to eat for his health I just don't know what that is.

EDIT: I am going through the food spreadsheet but I don't know what amount of carbs is considered low carb or is acceptable?
 
Hi Alunny!

I am not as well versed as many members here but will do my best to help you! Please don't beat yourself up over your furbaby's care. I'm sure you did the best you could with the information you had with you at the time.

To start, for a diabetic cat, its recommended for the carb content is 10% or lower. Dry food, if ever reaches below that threshold. You can read more about it here: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...r-more-than-just-carbohydrate-content.175004/

Can you expand a little on what you mean when the vet says he has warning signs? Was his BG high? Has he been showing symptoms? Did he do a blood panel?

Personally, the only cat food I've seen that is grain free (and available in Canada, at least) is Crave, Tiki Cat, and Weruva. There are probably more that I'm not aware of. Sadly the grain-free variety options will always be more expensive as it's used to "pad" cat food to make it more cost efficient.
 
Lizzee said:
Hi Alunny!

I am not as well versed as many members here but will do my best to help you! Please don't beat yourself up over your furbaby's care. I'm sure you did the best you could with the information you had with you at the time.

To start, for a diabetic cat, its recommended for the carb content is 10% or lower. Dry food, if ever reaches below that threshold. You can read more about it here: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...r-more-than-just-carbohydrate-content.175004/

Can you expand a little on what you mean when the vet says he has warning signs? Was his BG high? Has he been showing symptoms? Did he do a blood panel?

Personally, the only cat food I've seen that is grain free (and available in Canada, at least) is Crave, Tiki Cat, and Weruva. There are probably more that I'm not aware of. Sadly the grain-free variety options will always be more expensive as it's used to "pad" cat food to make it more cost efficient.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your reply! Essentially this is what happened....He pooed little balls and went back into the box after to go again, that time he got more out and seemed ok (it was all up a normal amount and the balls seemed soft not hard)....I was concerned because he's NEVER had to return to the box. We'd tried him on tuna the night before so I thought maybe it's the allergy manifesting in a crappy way. So later that night I noticed he was "nowhere to be found". He'd been lowering himself very slowly onto soft surfaces (He HATES soft surfaces) and sleeping in places away from everyone which he doesn't do, he's quite needy. He also had big ribcage area but small after the ribcage if that makes sense. He also doesn't loaf often and he was loafing really awkwardly. I checked his bladder, it was good, and I called the vet and booked him in. The vet thought he might have a UTI (aggravated by the tuna) gave him an anti-inflammatory shot (he rejects tablets) and asked for a urine sample. We've trained our bubs that when front paws are in the box we want him to go so getting the sample was no trouble and we had it back to the vet within maybe 20 minutes. It was NOT a fasting sample. He seemed great that night and slept with me but the next morning around 6:30am he was not happy and threw up a small tuff of hair. It was not a hairball it was like he'd spat egg white onto a piece of hair on the floor (which is a possibility). The vet called me at noon and told me he had glucose and ketones in his urine but no UTI as his ph was good, so we're going to do another urine test and another fasting blood test in a week or so. EDIT: Should add here he had a FULL blood panel that cost me over $300 when he had his surgery done, I think it was $375 or something insane, and he was completely healthy then. He had a follow-up 8 weeks later because his potassium was low but normal and that was fine. The ONLY change was his diet.

He didn't tell me how much glucose or ketones, hopefully it was just trace amounts or hell due to stress? I will call and ask him soon. He completely brushed off all my concerns about it like it was "no big deal" if he got T2D or worse T1D and it really frustrated me (kept making jokes about how he had T2D and it was nothing). Around the time my baby went in for surgery to clean his ears out this house switched to keto, so I know a fair bit about carbs, insulin, ketones, glucose/blood sugar and I knew before keto how bad carbs were for cats but they don't put that stuff on the labels and I admit I am very very very new to understanding cat nutrition. Before the allergy popped up I was researching but every recipe called for rice and I was obviously looking in the wrong places. I thought you know once we figure out his allergy he will join us on no/low carb. He's been so healthy up until this allergy came out of nowhere....since switching his food he's been bloated around his ribcage almost all the time and not feeling the best I can tell. We were feeding him Royal Canin Hypoallergenic as it was the only hypoallergenic food available that had all the requirements he needed to diagnose his allergy. I searched every vet in my area, and pet circle, pet barn, and a bunch of online pet stores this was the only one we could give him. Technically he could have had one of the Hills range but all of the reviews on that had cats being rushed to emergency and so I thought well this is the lesser of two evils and while the other foods from RC have shitty reviews this one has only positive maybe it will be okay for a couple of months. Obviously I was so wrong. After that phone call I ripped all those crunchies out of his bowl, I've put Delicare in there because it has 35% protein and he's been eating the applaws chicken breast but it has rice in it.

I've just found this website and it looks more affordable than me buying the meat and doing it myself :O I was thinking the chicken one will be good....do you think that's ok? Should I add thiamine to this just in case?
https://rawandfresh.com.au/
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
For a diabetic cat use 10% or under carbs. Most of us use around 5% carbs
Link to food chart with carb values
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
Click to expand...

Thank you so much I thought 10% was far too high and was hoping to find 2%. So far on the list from the spreadsheet I've found none of those in Australian stores. I haven't checked the online pet stores yet. I mentioned above I found a website doing raw food so I might buy that, it looks very promising! https://rawandfresh.com.au/
 
I live in Australia and can help you with getting sorted. Here is a link to in formation to Aussie caregivers
You will find the food list in this link plus other useful information
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...for-aussie-feline-diabetic-caregivers.217781/

Can you tell us what type and dose of insulin you are giving please.
It would be really great if you could set up a spreadsheet and a signature when you have time. We can he,p you loads more if these are set up.
Here is another link
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Ask as many questions as yoy lime . We are happy to answer them.
Bron
 
Alunny said:
Thanks so much for your reply! Essentially this is what happened....He pooed little balls and went back into the box after to go again, that time he got more out and seemed ok (it was all up a normal amount and the balls seemed soft not hard)....I was concerned because he's NEVER had to return to the box. We'd tried him on tuna the night before so I thought maybe it's the allergy manifesting in a crappy way. So later that night I noticed he was "nowhere to be found". He'd been lowering himself very slowly onto soft surfaces (He HATES soft surfaces) and sleeping in places away from everyone which he doesn't do, he's quite needy. He also had big ribcage area but small after the ribcage if that makes sense. He also doesn't loaf often and he was loafing really awkwardly. I checked his bladder, it was good, and I called the vet and booked him in. The vet thought he might have a UTI (aggravated by the tuna) gave him an anti-inflammatory shot (he rejects tablets) and asked for a urine sample. We've trained our bubs that when front paws are in the box we want him to go so getting the sample was no trouble and we had it back to the vet within maybe 20 minutes. It was NOT a fasting sample. He seemed great that night and slept with me but the next morning around 6:30am he was not happy and threw up a small tuff of hair. It was not a hairball it was like he'd spat egg white onto a piece of hair on the floor (which is a possibility). The vet called me at noon and told me he had glucose and ketones in his urine but no UTI as his ph was good, so we're going to do another urine test and another fasting blood test in a week or so. EDIT: Should add here he had a FULL blood panel that cost me over $300 when he had his surgery done, I think it was $375 or something insane, and he was completely healthy then. He had a follow-up 8 weeks later because his potassium was low but normal and that was fine. The ONLY change was his diet.

He didn't tell me how much glucose or ketones, hopefully it was just trace amounts or hell due to stress? I will call and ask him soon. He completely brushed off all my concerns about it like it was "no big deal" if he got T2D or worse T1D and it really frustrated me (kept making jokes about how he had T2D and it was nothing). Around the time my baby went in for surgery to clean his ears out this house switched to keto, so I know a fair bit about carbs, insulin, ketones, glucose/blood sugar and I knew before keto how bad carbs were for cats but they don't put that stuff on the labels and I admit I am very very very new to understanding cat nutrition. Before the allergy popped up I was researching but every recipe called for rice and I was obviously looking in the wrong places. I thought you know once we figure out his allergy he will join us on no/low carb. He's been so healthy up until this allergy came out of nowhere....since switching his food he's been bloated around his ribcage almost all the time and not feeling the best I can tell. We were feeding him Royal Canin Hypoallergenic as it was the only hypoallergenic food available that had all the requirements he needed to diagnose his allergy. I searched every vet in my area, and pet circle, pet barn, and a bunch of online pet stores this was the only one we could give him. Technically he could have had one of the Hills range but all of the reviews on that had cats being rushed to emergency and so I thought well this is the lesser of two evils and while the other foods from RC have shitty reviews this one has only positive maybe it will be okay for a couple of months. Obviously I was so wrong. After that phone call I ripped all those crunchies out of his bowl, I've put Delicare in there because it has 35% protein and he's been eating the applaws chicken breast but it has rice in it.

I've just found this website and it looks more affordable than me buying the meat and doing it myself :O I was thinking the chicken one will be good....do you think that's ok? Should I add thiamine to this just in case?
https://rawandfresh.com.au/
Click to expand...

In all honesty I would recommend a new vet and to do another blood panel. A blood panel would check (I believe it's called) Fructosamine, which can look at blood sugar values for the past 2 weeks. Regardless of the Type, Diabetes in cats almost always requires insulin. The fact that there were keytones in the urine is particularly troubling. Cats are known to have higher BGs due to stress at the vet, and it is a possibility that his body might be stressed from the food and his allergies. If your cat truly does have diabetes that requires treatment, the longer you wait to treat it the more serious and more expensive it will be in the long run, especially if your cat has DKA. A solid diagnosis would be better to help out your furbaby. You can also test the keytones yourself using ketostix to give you a better idea.

My fur baby also developed diabetes after her surgery, although her blood panel was completely fine before hand. No idea what caused it, but I suspect it might have been an infection she caught afterwards that threw her pancreas out of balance. Upon doing another blood panel after her surgery, it was found she had diabetes and DKA. She was at the vet ER for 3 days, which cost $3,000.

As for the nutrition, I have no idea. I know other members here are wonderful in calculating carb contents.
 
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If you are interested in feeding raw, you need to make sure that it is completely balanced and has no preservatives in it.
If you want to make your own, there is a website in the link I sent you above that makes a supplement that you just add to the raw muscle meat.
 
I have just read your reply to Lizzie.
If your kitty has glucose and ketones in the urine and your vet has not given you insulin to start, I would go to another vet tomorrow morning ASAP to find out exactly what is going on.
You can’t leave a cat with ketones in the urine for a week. You can’t leave it for a day because they can increase and develop into ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a very serious illness.
I would buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy, they are used for humans as well, and test the urine yourself.
How does your kitty seem at the moment?
Is he eating well?
Does he seem lethargic?
Please don’t leave this and think it is Ok because it isn’t. Ketones must be treated urgently.
 
Alunny said:
Thank you so much I thought 10% was far too high and was hoping to find 2%. So far on the list from the spreadsheet I've found none of those in Australian stores. I haven't checked the online pet stores yet. I mentioned above I found a website doing raw food so I might buy that, it looks very promising! https://rawandfresh.com.au/
Click to expand...

Check out Tiki cat chicken recipes I'm pretty sure they are really low in carbs 2-5 percent range.
 
Lizzee said:
In all honesty I would recommend a new vet and to do another blood panel. A blood panel would check (I believe it's called) Fructosamine, which can look at blood sugar values for the past 2 weeks. Regardless of the Type, Diabetes in cats almost always requires insulin. The fact that there were keytones in the urine is particularly troubling. Cats are known to have higher BGs due to stress at the vet, and it is a possibility that his body might be stressed from the food and his allergies. If your cat truly does have diabetes that requires treatment, the longer you wait to treat it the more serious and more expensive it will be in the long run, especially if your cat has DKA. A solid diagnosis would be better to help out your furbaby. You can also test the keytones yourself using ketostix to give you a better idea.

My fur baby also developed diabetes after her surgery, although her blood panel was completely fine before hand. No idea what caused it, but I suspect it might have been an infection she caught afterwards that threw her pancreas out of balance. Upon doing another blood panel after her surgery, it was found she had diabetes and DKA. She was at the vet ER for 3 days, which cost $3,000.

As for the nutrition, I have no idea. I know other members here are wonderful in calculating carb contents.
Click to expand...

So his advice to wait a few weeks is really dangerous? :O
The stupid part is he is our second opinion, and the most recommended vet in the area. I had to switch vets due to the pandemic but I can go back now, I just wanted to finish out his allergy with the vet who started his treatment.
I'll call up my other local clinic and get them to test him. I do have ketone sticks that measure ketones and glucose....can I use them on him? It's a fresh batch, I have diabetics in the family (type 1). His surgery went really well, he had both his ears cleaned out and a tooth removed and all of them cleaned. I thought he needed 3 teeth out but turns out he didn't so that was really fantastic news. He healed perfectly from it but yeah 2 months on this food and bam it's not good.

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you are interested in feeding raw, you need to make sure that it is completely balanced and has no preservatives in it.
If you want to make your own, there is a website in the link I sent you above that makes a supplement that you just add to the raw muscle meat.
Click to expand...

That's awesome thank you!!

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I have just read your reply to Lizzie.
If your kitty has glucose and ketones in the urine and your vet has not given you insulin to start, I would go to another vet tomorrow morning ASAP to find out exactly what is going on.
You can’t leave a cat with ketones in the urine for a week. You can’t leave it for a day because they can increase and develop into ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a very serious illness.
I would buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy, they are used for humans as well, and test the urine yourself.
How does your kitty seem at the moment?
Is he eating well?
Does he seem lethargic?
Please don’t leave this and think it is Ok because it isn’t. Ketones must be treated urgently.
Click to expand...

He's pretty good, he just bloats every now and then... it seems to happen more when he's hungry. Is that diabetes? I just tried to feed him some store bought raw meat and he gave me a look and stormed off, but until tonight he's eaten everything we've given him no worries. Another thing I mentioned to the vet he was turning red and I researched it and it was because he wasn't getting enough of a fatty acid in his diet and I thought the food was to blame and asked him for a supplement because he was begging us for food all day starving. He told me he changed color because of the sun and they can't test for nutrient deficiencies in cats to know for sure. So we did a blood test for his organs and potassium. I started feeding him chicken wet food in an attempt to give him what he was missing but that's only happened over the last week and his redness has decreased. I'll go switch his litter box with the fake litter so I can pee stick it and report back.

Beanie071 said:
Check out Tiki cat chicken recipes I'm pretty sure they are really low in carbs 2-5 percent range.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
Yes, if he doesn't have his BG under control with keytones, it is incredibly dangerous. Bloating sounds like it may do more with his digestion, but cats with diabetes do eat and drink more. If he was begging you for food all day starving, that may be a symptom. Did the blood test for his organs not show his glucose level? I know the keytone strips you have should be fine for cats but I'm not sure if you can successfully measure glucose with those strips. I'm assuming by strips you don't mean the ones you slot into a machine and take a sample of blood.

How are his energy levels? Is he drinking more? Peeing more?
 
Lizzee said:
Yes, if he doesn't have his BG under control with keytones, it is incredibly dangerous. Bloating sounds like it may do more with his digestion, but cats with diabetes do eat and drink more. If he was begging you for food all day starving, that may be a symptom. Did the blood test for his organs not show his glucose level? I know the keytone strips you have should be fine for cats but I'm not sure if you can successfully measure glucose with those strips. I'm assuming by strips you don't mean the ones you slot into a machine and take a sample of blood.

How are his energy levels? Is he drinking more? Peeing more?
Click to expand...

Apparently all his tests were normal and he did have his glucose tested on the second one and it was normal. I'm still waiting for him to go he's not happy with me for giving him "the wrong food". He started peeing twice a day last year but not really drinking or eating more when we moved, then he got ear mites from a stray cat at the window (or somewhere? He's indoor only) while pandemic delayed our advocate delivery so he wasn't protected like he should have been. They were treated within a few weeks but it triggered his allergy....which caused his ears to produce insane wax. While we cleaned his ears trying to help with special cleaners he got very lethargic and miserable until we decided it was time for surgery. After the surgery he was back to his old self, jumping and playing it was amazing! Shine back in his eyes, it was beautiful. The vet said his tooth must have been very painful and causing the lack of jumping we were seeing.

Then we changed his food because we fed him two cans of food and his ears caked in wax only 4 hours after his surgery (I checked when he came home they were 100% clean) so we had to start cleaning them out and go straight onto new food. Once we changed his food he got desperate for food. He refused to eat the crunchies for 4 or 5 days and when he started he turned redder than normal and he even dived into the bin which he's never done and became very aggressive...so much so I had to have a tetanus shot and antibiotics for a nasty bite I got when he wanted me to get up and feed him during the night. He also started losing hair and the vet said that was in my head but if you follow him while he walks there's white streaks everywhere which you shouldn't see unless he's missing hair. I took him straight in demanding answers and got told it was in my head he was red because of the sun. I took him in a few days ago also and he finally agreed that his fur was thinning and said it was his allergy. There's been no other vet I could see during this time (there is now) and I moved from a girl who clearly had no idea to the owner of the center...I guess neither of them have any idea :(.

Here's some photos. Will update on pee situation he doesn't like that the fake litter is wet from being washed lol.
https://imgur.com/a/wVI33lM

Update: He's decided he likes the food after I offered him a few pieces by hand then showed him the bowl, he's eaten a bit. Hopefully he pees before pooping because he's due for a poop and I don't want to clean that out of the fake litter lol.
 
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Lizzee said:
Hi @Alunny any updates on keytones so far?
Click to expand...

Yes! FANTASTIC news he's not showing any ketones but he is showing glucose :(. Sorry for the wait he was adamant on not peeing because the fake litter was wet, then he went this morning after snuggling all night. I gave him Fussy Cat (NOT fussie cat) last night, I had to cook it because he refused it raw because it's not chicken. So that should be carb free but it has preservatives in it that murder thiamine so it's very much temporary.

Do you think it's possible my vet only said ketones to make it sound a certain way? I'm very concerned that vet is not honest. My mum took her kitten in and he's been diagnosed with allergies too...but I'm 100% sure it's cat flu because her other cat is sneezing and not well (He has an appt coming up) and her kitten was diagnosed as an allergy because of facial ulcers which can happen in kittens with cat flu (they're on his lips)....also how likely is it two cats have allergies that I know? They live in separate houses and I've never had contact with her kitten. Also changing his food made him really unwell (miserable, lethargic, hungry - note it was a different food) too but my mum changed him back and he's been ok....so I'm not seeing how it's a food allergy for him at least. My cat still has excessive wax but far less than before and the vet is telling me it could be an allergy to something else which is super vague. I feel like they're running a big scam to sell more expensive foods through their clinic.

Picture taken at 15s exactly.....if I let it sit there it goes all the way green :/. I did two tests both were the same at 15s but the second one didn't go as green when it sat there.
https://imgur.com/a/y5PRcxt

EDIT Oops so I just noticed the glucose wants 30s in which case it went right to the last square. I thought I'd let it sit too long I didn't realise it had two sets of instructions until just now.
 
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@Alunny

My 17 yr old had battled waxy, gunky ears her entire life. I clean them and they still have bad build up. Vets always give me the drops and they worked only when treated. Last year they got so bad she ripped her neck open and all the fur on both sides gone. She is a extreme picky eater. She would only eat one brand, one flavor, FF beef. It took 3 yrs to get her off dry food. Anyway, there was no way doing an elimination diet was going to work, she would go days not eating no matter the wet food tried. I had allergy test done on her, Dr have her short term steroid shot, packed her ears with antibiotic ointment. While waiting for results, I went back to using freeze dried raw Vital Essentials food (not available in Canada). This time she ate it as long as it was on the dry side. Results came back in 3 weeks. She was allergic to pork, milk, soybean, will and a bunch of trees, grasses, flowers, etc. Husband was giving her lots of Dr Elseys dry food (unknown by me). It had pork in it. The FF beef had changed. It smelled more, color and texture was off. I think that contributed. Of course she stopped eating the Vital Essentials. I rotate Tiny Tiger foods (new for us), Purina One beef, ProPlan beef n carrots (not a favorite), chicken medley primavera, savory centers. She now gets regular deep ear cleaning by vet, I keep her nails short. Years ago I made food for my 1st diabetic, she would not touch it. None of my cats will eat human food.

What surgery did he have?
 
Olive & Paula said:
@Alunny

My 17 yr old had battled waxy, gunky ears her entire life. I clean them and they still have bad build up. Vets always give me the drops and they worked only when treated. Last year they got so bad she ripped her neck open and all the fur on both sides gone. She is a extreme picky eater. She would only eat one brand, one flavor, FF beef. It took 3 yrs to get her off dry food. Anyway, there was no way doing an elimination diet was going to work, she would go days not eating no matter the wet food tried. I had allergy test done on her, Dr have her short term steroid shot, packed her ears with antibiotic ointment. While waiting for results, I went back to using freeze dried raw Vital Essentials food (not available in Canada). This time she ate it as long as it was on the dry side. Results came back in 3 weeks. She was allergic to pork, milk, soybean, will and a bunch of trees, grasses, flowers, etc. Husband was giving her lots of Dr Elseys dry food (unknown by me). It had pork in it. The FF beef had changed. It smelled more, color and texture was off. I think that contributed. Of course she stopped eating the Vital Essentials. I rotate Tiny Tiger foods (new for us), Purina One beef, ProPlan beef n carrots (not a favorite), chicken medley primavera, savory centers. She now gets regular deep ear cleaning by vet, I keep her nails short. Years ago I made food for my 1st diabetic, she would not touch it. None of my cats will eat human food.

What surgery did he have?
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh this sounds extremely familiar. My bub is so picky he only eats one kind of food and once went 9 days without eating before I gave in and put his food back....but I couldn't afford another surgery so I stood my ground this time and he gave in in 4 or 5. His food was the Fancy Feast with cheese varieties, and my hope is that he's allergic to cheese but it's possible it's fish or beef. He's extremely over the top about it, and he only had that food because we had a visiting cat come stay with us a long time ago and he decided that was his food. Never got him off.

When the allergy got triggered he did the same thing to his face too, all the furr near his ears gone and scratch marks overnight. I told the vet this isn't normal he walks around with flat ears and he's miserable you need to do the surgery. When he got a steroid shot after the surgery it helped a whole lot. He didn't have any infection just so much buildup. He had anti-inflammatory shot as well and they flushed his ears (that was the surgery). It's so hard to clean them and to do a proper clean they have to put him out and that's $700+ I can't afford (and that was the cheapest quote I got all over).

I was told there's no test for allergies you can only do the elimination diet. What was the name of the test you did? That would solve a lot of problems and I asked about 20 times for some kind of test.
 
You are in Canada correct? I don't know what test you can get there. Tripper had the blood test, sent out to Veterinary Allergy Reference Lab in California. It is the Liquid Gold Allergy Test. There is also a saliva test. The best testing is the skin patch done by specialist but there isn't one in my area. The blood and saliva test I'm told aren't extremely accurate, but to me it was a starting point and better than nothing.

Fish, chicken and beef are the ones most cats are sensitive to. Previously I had 2 cats allergic to fish so I never feed food with fish or seafood in the title. My current kits are not crazy about chicken. They all prefer beef.
 
Olive & Paula said:
You are in Canada correct? I don't know what test you can get there. Tripper had the blood test, sent out to Veterinary Allergy Reference Lab in California. It is the Liquid Gold Allergy Test. There is also a saliva test. The best testing is the skin patch done by specialist but there isn't one in my area. The blood and saliva test I'm told aren't extremely accurate, but to me it was a starting point and better than nothing.
Click to expand...

No I'm in Australia :)

I'll have to ask another vet if they can do anything.
 
Alunny said:
No I'm in Australia :)

I'll have to ask another vet if they can do anything.
Click to expand...

Can you get freeze dried raw food and try that for awhile? You can mix with water to make it wet or give dry, actually you can make it any texture he likes.

Carbs should be under 10%. Most people keep it under 5%.
 
Olive & Paula said:
Can you get freeze dried raw food and try that for awhile? You can mix with water to make it wet or give dry, actually you can make it any texture he likes.
Click to expand...

Yeah he's eating the raw food if I cook it, I think he likes the fats in it being greasy lol. He wants a sauce I suspect. I'm in the process of ordering him the raw and fresh food so hopefully that goes well! :D
 
Alunny said:
Yeah he's eating the raw food if I cook it, I think he likes the fats in it being greasy lol. He wants a sauce I suspect. I'm in the process of ordering him the raw and fresh food so hopefully that goes well! :D
Click to expand...

Don't forget you need to add the premix (or individually add) nutrients if it's going to be long term.
 
Olive & Paula said:
Don't forget you need to add the premix (or individually add) nutrients if it's going to be long term.
Click to expand...

What premix? They said it's nutritionally complete. It's got minced chicken, bone, and offal from beef which is higher in nutrients :). If he reacts to it we'll have to look into one without beef but he's been okay on the raw beef we've given him so I'm pretty sure it's cheese/fish.

You can see here:
https://rawandfresh.com.au/products/chicken-basics-cat
 
I don't see taurine listed in the nutients. You should ask about it.

Most people (in the States) who feed raw or cooked must add the nutrients to the food.
 
Did you look at the links I sent you for Australian foods etc?
I’m not sure that the food you sent in the link is complete either. I’ll have a good look at it. But it doesn’t seem to mention bone or a replacement for bone. There is not enough calcium in the meat they list.

Has the vet started insulin yet? When he does make sure it is Lantus and not Vetsulin.
Did the vet do a fructosamine test to determine if your kitty was a diabetic?
 
Alunny said:
What premix? They said it's nutritionally complete. It's got minced chicken, bone, and offal from beef which is higher in nutrients :). If he reacts to it we'll have to look into one without beef but he's been okay on the raw beef we've given him so I'm pretty sure it's cheese/fish.

You can see here:
https://rawandfresh.com.au/products/chicken-basics-cat
Click to expand...
I’ve just looked at the website and the only one that had bone for calcium is the chicken meal. I have sent them off an email as they say that all their foods are nutritionally complete and that is simply not true. So if you are feeding any of the beef or kangaroo meals they do not have the calcium content in them. They have false advertising which makes me angry and I’m going to follow it up.
 
Olive & Paula said:
I don't see taurine listed in the nutients. You should ask about it.

Most people (in the States) who feed raw or cooked must add the nutrients to the food.
Click to expand...

They said their offal contains lamb heart which is rich in taurine and I told them they need to add that to their page because it's unclear. Good catch! Thanks for letting me know I got it confused with thiamine.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Did you look at the links I sent you for Australian foods etc?
I’m not sure that the food you sent in the link is complete either. I’ll have a good look at it. But it doesn’t seem to mention bone or a replacement for bone. There is not enough calcium in the meat they list.

Has the vet started insulin yet? When he does make sure it is Lantus and not Vetsulin.
Did the vet do a fructosamine test to determine if your kitty was a diabetic?
Click to expand...

I was told to call back first thing in the morning because the vets in my area were tied up with emergencies....so I have to wait :(. He seems fine right now playing and eating the raw food.

Thank you for messaging them about that bone content, not cool to leave that out.
 
I'm really hoping there's been a huge misunderstanding and he found glucose, not ketones, and wanted to check in a few weeks to ensure there wasn't ketones and that glucose resolved....? Maybe he thought his antiinflamatory injection caused it or stress or something else?
 
Booked him in for an appt, there has been a misunderstanding he's got glucose NOT ketones the vet misspoke, and he thinks it's stress so I have to wait for the medicine he gave him to work his way out and he will have a fasting blood test in 1 week. Still not great news hoping he's okay when we retest. How long after the test should I get him another blood test to make sure it was something passing? Is feeding him zero carb going to affect the results?
 
I would feed a low carb food anyway because it is much better for all cats.
If you are waiting for a glucose test in a week it would still be a very good idea to test for ketones in the urine. If he is in fact a diabetic he will be more prone to getting ketones if the insulin is not started. It’s an insurance
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would feed a low carb food anyway because it is much better for all cats.
If you are waiting for a glucose test in a week it would still be a very good idea to test for ketones in the urine. If he is in fact a diabetic he will be more prone to getting ketones if the insulin is not started. It’s an insurance
Click to expand...

Yes I will be asking for the blood test to check for ketones as well. Is there anything else I should ask him to suck blood out for while he's doing it?
 
I was meaning for you to test for ketones at home while they decide if they are going to start insulin or not. It’s a simple test. You collect a urine sample and you dip the test strip from the bottle of Ketostix that you buy from Walmart or a pharmacy, into the urine and read it exactly 15 seconds afterwards against the colours on the side of the bottle. If there are any ketones showing on the strip I would tell the vet.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I was meaning for you to test for ketones at home while they decide if they are going to start insulin or not. It’s a simple test. You collect a urine sample and you dip the test strip from the bottle of Ketostix that you buy from Walmart or a pharmacy, into the urine and read it exactly 15 seconds afterwards against the colours on the side of the bottle. If there are any ketones showing on the strip I would tell the vet.
Click to expand...

I've done 3, I posted a photo of one of them they all came back negative for ketones. We're keeping a close eye on him though.
 
He's so happy on the 0 carb food! He's not scratching or biting for food now, he's just meowing to let us know he's hungry. He's also playing a lot more by himself and he loves it, won't even touch the crunchies now. That food must have made him feel like crap. We haven't got the nutritionally complete one yet, that arrives on the 5th but we got another that's low in thiamine so I'm trying to work out how to give him the thiamine he needs since he ditched the crunchies completely. If you have any advice I would really love it. From what I've worked out he will need 20mg of thiamine but the supplements are huge.

I found these two near me
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/20887/nature-s-own-vitamin-b1-250mg---vitamin-b---75-tablets
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/1176/betamin-vitamin-b1-tablets-100mg-100
 
He has new manners! Or maybe old ones, he used to be really good. He's meowing to let us know he wants food and not climbing onto the bench to get it now. He's sitting on the floor cleaning his face while he waits. When I was done putting the food in his bowl I said "do you want some food?" and he did that pur meow and trotted to his bowl (it's one of those ones that has inserts). Last night he was up all night playing. He's been running around like he's a cheetah (his body is moving like a big cat which is interesting) and hunting for what ever he is capable of seeing but I'm not (maybe ghosts are under my couch ha ha). He's even left me alone to eat my food. After cooking the raw food partially for a couple of meals he switched easily to the raw uncooked and he prefers that now.

It's really interesting too because before I went low carb to keto I was treated for an eating disorder because I was constantly thinking of food and starving. I later discovered thanks to insulin resistance I was actually starving....with a full belly. It blocked my cells getting energy which made them tell my brain to eat food which of course drove me crazy. Since keto I've not once felt like that (well except the one time I didn't realise I was hungry but I learned from that ha ha). Maybe he's had the same problem and we both should have gone low carb years ago.

This short clip from the free doco (on youtube) called Fat Head explains it...I'm wondering if he felt the same thing. Or if perhaps he was nutritionally starving in a different way.
 
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I looked at the raw and fresh website you posted the other day.
They are not telling the whole truth about the cat food. They give the impression it is balanced nutritionally but it is not.
Only the chicken meal has the calcium added in the form of bone. The other cat meals only have muscle meat and organ meat which is not at all balanced.
I have written to them twice and they just don't seem to get that they are producing a product that could be harmful to cats if eaten for any length of time. I have just written them a third letter telling them they are misleading the public and they are leaving themselves open to being sued.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I looked at the raw and fresh website you posted the other day.
They are not telling the whole truth about the cat food. They give the impression it is balanced nutritionally but it is not.
Only the chicken meal has the calcium added in the form of bone. The other cat meals only have muscle meat and organ meat which is not at all balanced.
I have written to them twice and they just don't seem to get that they are producing a product that could be harmful to cats if eaten for any length of time. I have just written them a third letter telling them they are misleading the public and they are leaving themselves open to being sued.
Click to expand...

From what I read they're saying for the beef and roo you need to supplement calcium, and suggested turkey/chicken necks and wings which they also sell. Also I messaged them to make sure it was nutritionally complete as well and they said only the Chicken Basics, which is what I wanted so I was okay with that. I mentioned that should be on the page and they said they were redoing the product pages.
 
I have emailed them 3 times and got answers. Yesterday one of the owners emailed me and wants to talk in the phone as I have a list of concerns. I think it is basically a good food but they have not made it complete nutritionally which really concerns me. As you say the roo and beef have no calcium content.
If you are feeding the chicken meal all the time I would add an egg yoke once a week, a couple of canned sardines a week for omega 3 ( they freeze so you can use leftovers the next week)
The roo meal is too low in fat to be fed exclusively.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I have emailed them 3 times and got answers. Yesterday one of the owners emailed me and wants to talk in the phone as I have a list of concerns. I think it is basically a good food but they have not made it complete nutritionally which really concerns me. As you say the roo and beef have no calcium content.
If you are feeding the chicken meal all the time I would add an egg yoke once a week, a couple of canned sardines a week for omega 3 ( they freeze so you can use leftovers the next week)
The roo meal is too low in fat to be fed exclusively.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much! I was thinking that as well....We've been giving him egg and he loves it. I wasn't sure on the sardines we're pretty sure his allergy at this point is fish or cheese. Honestly it's so hard to know what it is, we thought it might be beef but he's eating the (temporary until the Raw and Fresh Delivery) raw food with no reaction and I'm starting to wonder if it is carbs or preservatives or something triggering it. Is there another source for that I can add to his diet? He will be eating exclusively the chicken, unless they start adding bone to the beef then we'll do beef and chicken. You're right though, they shouldn't be selling the beef and roo without bone content.....not unless it's clear it's not nutritionally complete and I mean like written in big red letters.
 
So I just got back from the vet and I don't know what to say. He took his blood and I'll get THOSE results later today, probably afternoon because they're swamped. That's not the problem.

When I got in there I told him to show me his old results and I said to him okay his glucose was fine for the test 2 months ago (last week of October) and the only thing that changed was he was put on a high carb diet. This set him off but more on that later. I told him I switched him to raw food and it was nutritionally complete with bone content and offal and basically he went on a rant.....can someone address each of these?
  1. He told me 2 months for a cat was like "several years" (I can't remember the exact number because he technically said in dog years 2 months is like x years and I said he's not a dog and he said it was the same thing which it's not dogs age differently depending on their age so that whole 7 years thing is a myth, very upset he doesn't know that and if he does know that he's trying to manipulate me).
  2. He said that high carb diets didn't affect cats or cause diabetes, if he had diabetes it was "just because" he was always going to have it. (IE there's nothing that can cause it)
  3. He said feeding him raw food will end up with nutritional deficiencies even if it's nutritionally complete.
  4. He said I shouldn't be feeding my cat human grade offal, he didn't say why just shook his head when I said offal and said it was bad.
  5. He said that if my cat was heading to T2D the "chances" I could reverse it were essentially so low it's not worth trying.
  6. He said his mum was able to control her blood sugars with diet and exercise for 2 years then needed insulin as that's proof raw food is a band aid and it won't work or help.
  7. He said he "has to" go on a diabetic diet...which he describes as dry food (keep in mind here in Aus we have extremely high carb cat food and I do not want to know how high carb the diabetic food is here, the diabetic guidelines for humans is so out of date here even America has better guidelines).
Now he was given shots of steroids (2) and anti-inflammatories (1), couldn't those be causes for diabetes? The steroids were several months apart last year, and the anti-inflammatory was week or so ago when I took him in last and made this thread. So if those are how long can they cause issues for?

I'm very confused I could really use some insight. If he has diabetes I will of course care for him properly, after taking him to a new vet who has long studied and treated feline diabetes because this guy just doesn't want to put the time in to really talk to me and keeps using his mum/his own diabetes as proof for my cats condition. Plus he keeps brushing off things I'm worried about. He wouldn't even look me in the eye it was very awkward. Also my cat was so terrified he was trembling and he wet himself and he's never done that at a vet before, only this vet. He only got a blood test and his nails clipped he shouldn't have been that scared and he had feliway in his carrier. He's going to swap back to his old vet now the pandemic is over and they've reopened.

EDIT: Forgot to add he's back to his normal weight but lost a lot of fat and bloating so I'm very happy. He's 5kg. I hope this means his body is healing and he's building muscle, he sure is playing a lot and seems very happy outside of vet trips lol
 
11.8 normal ranges is 8.8.

Last test was 8.7.

He wants a recheck in a month or two, he thinks it's stress and would expect to see double if he was diabetic...
 
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