Help with food please!! Really need advice or guidance from those who have experience

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Dee1991

Dee1991

Member Since 2020
I've posted about this before, but now we're a few weeks in and nothing has gotten better. My cat is currently told to eat purina DM canned by our vet (and two others, i got second opinions because this whole experience has been so frustrating). He won't eat the food unless we put him on appetite stimulants. Today was the first day that we didn't give him the appetite stimulant and he just wouldnt eat it. I had to switch back to fancy feast to get him to eat anything in order to give him his insulin shot.

I would really love some advice because to be honest I feel like giving up at this point. I know a lot of members here feed their cats FF, but my vet is adamant and suggests that in order for my cat to get healthy and possibly go into remission I need to push the FF out of his diet. I feel like I have to listen to my vet because who am I to know...Now i'm feeling incredibly guilty for giving him a whole can of FF and ruining all the progress we've made the last two months (i couldn't even split the FF with the DM because if he caught whiff of the DM he wouldn't touch anything)

So i have two part question, has anyone here gotten their cat in remission on a strictly FF diet, and has anyone here gotten their cat to switch to purina DM after two months of stubborn behaviour.
 
I cannot answer your question, but I’m happy to tell you about Little Bit’s background with food. Upon diagnosis, our vet recommended rx food, too (Hill’s M/D). He would eat it to begin with, but quickly lost all interest in the wet food which was what I mainly needed to feed him. I have switched him to fancy feast classics and he loves it! I feel like a weight has been lifted because giving insulin without much of an appetite is not feasible. I recently told our vet about switching his food and he was on board as long as it was low in carbohydrates. I hope that helps some!
 
Little Bit’s Mom said:
I cannot answer your question, but I’m happy to tell you about Little Bit’s background with food. Upon diagnosis, our vet recommended rx food, too (Hill’s M/D). He would eat it to begin with, but quickly lost all interest in the wet food which was what I mainly needed to feed him. I have switched him to fancy feast classics and he loves it! I feel like a weight has been lifted because giving insulin without much of an appetite is not feasible. I recently told our vet about switching his food and he was on board as long as it was low in carbohydrates. I hope that helps some!
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Can I ask which fancy feast flavours you get? I sometimes get worried that the ones from the table i've seen aren't the same as the ones I've bought for him. Thank you for your input!
 
JanetNJ said:
There is nothing in the perscription food that is any better or healthier than grocery store food. Most people are feeding fancy feast classic or Friskies pate foods. I feed weruva foods. Here is a good chart. Pick foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
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I hear that here often, and I truly believe it but two family friends' of mine are vets/nurses and both are adamant that I switch to the DM and I don't feel like they would lie to me like I doubted my vet might. which is making me second guess myself.
 
Just be truthful with your vet and tell them your cat won't eat it any more. That is very common - many kitties get tired of it. Take a look at the ingredients, they are nothing special. You shouldn't have to feed an appetite stimulant to get him to eat something he doesn't like. It will cause or may have already caused food aversion. It's more important that he eats on his own. Neither my current vet or Neko's internal medicine vet pushed those foods and were happy to see her on a raw diet. Not all vets have bought into the messaging of those pet food companies. We've had hundreds of cats go into remission on foods other than d/m.
 
Dee1991 said:
I hear that here often, and I truly believe it but two family friends' of mine are vets/nurses and both are adamant that I switch to the DM and I don't feel like they would lie to me like I doubted my vet might. which is making me second guess myself.
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I believe that most vets would not lie. Nutrition is not an area that many vets study in great detail. They are often educated by the pet food companies who of course are selling a product. The vets believe the pet food companies and pass that information along to the consumer.

I had been feeding FF pate but have switched to President’s Choice (Superstore brand - we are in Canada) but still a Grocery store brand with less than 10% carbs. Freckle’s is doing well and her insulin has been reduced from 11u twice per day now down to 5.5u.

I think the better question would be to ask your vet what is so great about the prescription food? Ask what the carb count is. I believe some companies coat the kibble with something to make the cats thirsty And you could add a little bit of water to FF pate to get more water into your kitty while having lower carbs and something affordable.
 
I looked back on some of your previous posts and we all told you to tell your vet he just won't eat the DM. Most if us here feed Fancy Feast Classics Pates

There is nothing wrong with feeding FF Pates
I'm sorry but just because he's a vet doesn't mean he knows everything about diabetes

If it wasn't for the experienced members here my cat wouldn't be doing as amazing as he is .
Feeding him the Fancy Feast will not ruin all the progress you made
Why should your cat have to take an appetite stimulant in order to eat.
I have never heard such a thing in order to get your cat to eat.
Just tell your vet he won't eat it and that you are going to feed him FF

Are you feeding any dry food also?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I looked back on some of your previous posts and we all told you to tell your vet he just won't eat the DM. Most if us here feed Fancy Feast Classics Pates

There is nothing wrong with feeding FF Pates
I'm sorry but just because he's a vet doesn't mean he knows everything about diabetes

If it wasn't for the experienced members here my cat wouldn't be doing as amazing as he is .
Feeding him the Fancy Feast will not ruin all the progress you made
Why should your cat have to take an appetite stimulant in order to eat.
I have never heard such a thing in order to get your cat to eat.
Just tell your vet he won't eat it and that you are going to feed him FF

Are you feeding any dry food also?
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I know. I’m sorry for being a broken record about this. It’s just that every time I tell my vet I want to stick to fancy feast I get told that’s the wrong choice to make. I was sure I’d stick to fancy feast until my family friends who are also vets suggested fancy feast wasn’t right. He’s not on any dry food no, currently just wet.

I’m not familiar with the terminology but essentially we started with 2 units, brought it down to 1, and then now I’m told to give .5 units if above 5.5mmol/L (I’m in Canada) and 0.25 when less than 5.5mmol/L.
 
Dee1991 said:
I know. I’m sorry for being a broken record about this. It’s just that every time I tell my vet I want to stick to fancy feast I get told that’s the wrong choice to make. I was sure I’d stick to fancy feast until my family friends who are also vets suggested fancy feast wasn’t right. He’s not on any dry food no, currently just wet.

I’m not familiar with the terminology but essentially we started with 2 units, brought it down to 1, and then now I’m told to give .5 units if above 5.5mmol/L (I’m in Canada) and 0.25 when less than 5.5mmol/L.
Click to expand...
I am going to tag some members to look at your spreadsheet about what your vet told you about what dose to give him, they might not be on now , so you might have to wait until tomorrow

@Wendy&Neko

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@tiffmaxee

@Deb & Wink

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Nan & Amber (GA)

Hi Ladies would you please take a look at her SS
and what her vet is telling her about how many units to give .

Thank you :bighug::cat:
 
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Dee1991 said:
... has anyone here gotten their cat in remission on a strictly FF diet, and has anyone here gotten their cat to switch to purina DM after two months of stubborn behaviour.
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Lola was diagnosed on September 14, 2020 and received her first insulin injection that evening. Her vet sent her home with DM dry. After finding this forum on October 10 we started the transition to low carb wet food (mostly Friskie's pate initially). The morning of October 18 Lola received her last insulin injection. She is now in diet-controlled remission. She achieved that remission in 34 days total, but 10 days after making the switch to canned pates.

I would hate to think that a vet would deliberately lie to a client and act against the pet's best interests, but my inner cynic has to wonder how much profit enters into it. Take a look at what your vet is charging you for the DM, and then see what Chewy sells it for. I think it's a safe bet that your vet is earning at least that much in profit for every bag s/he sells.
 
Dee1991 said:
I’m not familiar with the terminology but essentially we started with 2 units, brought it down to 1, and then now I’m told to give .5 units if above 5.5mmol/L (I’m in Canada) and 0.25 when less than 5.5mmol/L.
Click to expand...

Lantus is not dosed on pre-shot values but based on how low the dose is taking the cat. You want to shoot a dose that you can consistently shoot both AM and PM. Lantus is a depot insulin, so shooting different doses in different cycles disrupts the depot and you don;t know which dose is working.

We follow 2 dosing protocols here and you can read up about them here.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

Aboo is definitely seeing a great improvement in his numbers but you need more tests (in addition to the pre-shot ones) to see how low he is going on 0.5U.

I would recommend that you follow the TR protocol as it will let you hold a good dose longer and help Aboo stay in good healing numbers. With that, you hold the 0.5U dose for now and get at least one additional test per cycle. If you get a drop below 68 mg/dl (3.8 mmol), you reduce the dose by 0.25U.

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
Hi Dee,
I would strongly advise you to try and get some tests in during the pm cycles. Cats often drop lower at night and unless you test in the pm cycles you are missing half the data. I would suggest a before bed test each night. If the before bed BG is the same or lower than the preshot, that is a heads up that it could be an active cycle and could drop down lower, so set your alarm and get up and test a couple of hours later to check Aboo is safe.

Also if you can get some more tests in during the am cycles, that will also tell us how the insulin dose is working. At the moment we don’t know how low he is dropping during most of the cycles both am and pm.

I have to agree with the others and say there is nothing special about prescription food, except it is more expensive than most other cat foods.
I was also told early in my journey that I must feed exclusively the M/D Hills prescription food or I would spoil my cats chances of maybe going into remission. I now know that is simply not true. FF pates or any of the low carb canned foods are perfectly suitable for diabetic cats. I have seen many cats go into remission on FF canned or similar brands.
If you are having to give Aboo an appetite stimulant so he will eat the prescription food, I think that is unacceptable. You are Aboo’s advocate and you must do what you think is right for him.....

You need to choose one of the 2 dosing methods before we can advise you on dose.
 
Thank you guys, I feel like I should have gotten the hang of this by now but I honestly still don’t know what I’m doing or what’s right. Pretty much every aspect has been a challenge so far.

if I’m understanding right, I need to grow some nerves and put my foot down about the fancy feast. Honestly the appetite stimulant didnt feel right especially because I know he’s hungry already, he just doesn’t like the food! But I just felt like they were so stern with me and sort of shaming me? They compared the DM to a salad and FF to McDonald’s and said “which would you give your child”

I’ll start testing more often, I slowed down because I felt like our relationship had changed and I didn’t want to be a constant reminder of pokes and discomfort.
 
Your vet may be unaware that there is currently a class action suit against Hill's over their use of the term "prescription" diet. The suit points out that stating that their food is any different that a non-prescription food is a fraudulent claim.

If you take a look at Dr. Lisa's website on feline nutrition, in the section on diabetes, she clearly states, "There is absolutely no reason to spend your hard-earned money on veterinarian-prescribed diets." Lisa Pierson, the author of the site is a veterinarian who has studied feline nutrition.

Are you buying the food from your vet? If so, let the vet know that it's cheaper for you to purchase from Chewy's (it's 40% off right now). Take the prescription. Then throw the prescription in the trash when you get home. Your vet is not looking over your shoulder when your feeding your cat. For what you're spending on DM, you could be feeding your cat a much better quality food. Frankly, the best food for your cat is a low carb food that your cat will eat. Like Wendy said, there's absolutely no reason you need to be giving your cat an appetite stimulant on a regular basis just to get your cat to eat something he doesn't like.

Many years ago, I had a similar argument with my vet. She was insistent on my feeding my cat a prescription diet. And then I came here. I went back to the vet's office with cases of canned food and open bags of dry and asked for my money back. Not only did my very food motivated cat hate the stuff, I had a discussion with the vet as to how the carb count, especially with the dry food, was exceptionally high and not appropriate for a diabetic cat. I gave her the link to Dr. Lisa's site and pointed out the difference in the carb count of what I wanted to feed my cat vs what she was telling me to feed my cat. She was a great vet and once she realized I understood the relationship between carbs and diabetes, we were good. She was also clueless about resources like Dr. Lisa's site. (I'm also used to dealing with medical professionals and I can push back.) I would suggest that you:
  • know your facts -- look at the carbs
  • bring a comparison of the ingredients
  • bring in a comparison of the guaranteed analysis or better yet, the "as fed" analysis (the latter is on Dr. Lisa's food chart)
  • ask your vet to point out what the difference is between what you want to feed Aboo vs the prescription diet
  • ask the vet for the research on giving a cat an appetite stimulant over the long term and whether it's safe (it's unlikely that there are any studies)
I also agree with Bron. You need to be getting more tests during the PM cycle. Those PMPS tests in the 80s could mean that numbers were dropping lower by nadir. You may be missing dose reduction numbers.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Lantus is not dosed on pre-shot values but based on how low the dose is taking the cat. You want to shoot a dose that you can consistently shoot both AM and PM. Lantus is a depot insulin, so shooting different doses in different cycles disrupts the depot and you don;t know which dose is working.

We follow 2 dosing protocols here and you can read up about them here.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

Aboo is definitely seeing a great improvement in his numbers but you need more tests (in addition to the pre-shot ones) to see how low he is going on 0.5U.

I would recommend that you follow the TR protocol as it will let you hold a good dose longer and help Aboo stay in good healing numbers. With that, you hold the 0.5U dose for now and get at least one additional test per cycle. If you get a drop below 68 mg/dl (3.8 mmol), you reduce the dose by 0.25U.

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
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Morning Bhooma ,I meant to tag you also, my brain was fried at that point, and couldn't remember your name :banghead:
Thanks for explaining to her how Lantus works. Have a good day Bhooma :bighug::bighug::cat:
 
I’ve looked at the types of dosing methods, thank you for the link.

For the tight regulation, I see that I will need a glucometer for humans. Is the alphatrak not suitable?

I think I’ll be going with this dosing method; and I’m understanding that I’ll stick to 0.5units and if his nadir goes lower than 3.8mmol over a few days that’ll be my indication to adjust and lower the insulin?

im now down the rabbit hole of wet food and their contents! Fingers crossed this becomes less overwhelming. Anyone in Canada have a good website to order from? I would love to order through Chewy but unfortunately they don’t ship here
 
Dee1991 said:
Thank you guys, I feel like I should have gotten the hang of this by now but I honestly still don’t know what I’m doing or what’s right. Pretty much every aspect has been a challenge so far.

if I’m understanding right, I need to grow some nerves and put my foot down about the fancy feast. Honestly the appetite stimulant didnt feel right especially because I know he’s hungry already, he just doesn’t like the food! But I just felt like they were so stern with me and sort of shaming me? They compared the DM to a salad and FF to McDonald’s and said “which would you give your child”

I’ll start testing more often, I slowed down because I felt like our relationship had changed and I didn’t want to be a constant reminder of pokes and discomfort.
Click to expand...
If you want higher quality ingredients go with weruva... less food coloring and stuff like that. There's nothing in DM that is a better ingredient then FF. Compare the ingredients in the two. Plus the dm food lists Carrageenan in it's ingredients which SOME scientists say is suspected of contributing to IBS and colitis (it's up for debate).
 
Dee1991 said:
I’ve looked at the types of dosing methods, thank you for the link.

For the tight regulation, I see that I will need a glucometer for humans. Is the alphatrak not suitable?

I think I’ll be going with this dosing method; and I’m understanding that I’ll stick to 0.5units and if his nadir goes lower than 3.8mmol over a few days that’ll be my indication to adjust and lower the insulin?

im now down the rabbit hole of wet food and their contents! Fingers crossed this becomes less overwhelming. Anyone in Canada have a good website to order from? I would love to order through Chewy but unfortunately they don’t ship here
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Dee1991 said:
I’ve looked at the types of dosing methods, thank you for the link.

For the tight regulation, I see that I will need a glucometer for humans. Is the alphatrak not suitable?

I think I’ll be going with this dosing method; and I’m understanding that I’ll stick to 0.5units and if his nadir goes lower than 3.8mmol over a few days that’ll be my indication to adjust and lower the insulin?

im now down the rabbit hole of wet food and their contents! Fingers crossed this becomes less overwhelming. Anyone in Canada have a good website to order from? I would love to order through Chewy but unfortunately they don’t ship here
Click to expand...
Dee was reading that you need a human meter for TR in the stickies
Also says it for SLGS
She's using the Alpha Trak
Can anyone from Canada help her out on where to buy supplies ?
I assume she means food, I don't know

Thank you
 
I’m from Canada as well. Fancy Feast Pates are available at most grocery stores and Walmart/Superstore. I currently feed President’s Choice Extra Meaty Beef and Salmon (I fed FF in the past as well). My cat has acromegaly, IAA and diabetes but no other medical conditions.

I use Freestyle Lite test strips and glucometer. The test strips only require a very small blood droplet. I’ve been getting my strips off of EBay for about $40/100 (including shipping and exchange rate). The pharmacies are $75-80 for 100 strips.

I can send you the link for where to get needles and also the link for Canadian cat food links when I get on my computer (using my phone right now.).

You can create a post or do a search for what other Canadians are doing for food and supplies as well. More Canadians are apt to reply if your post title reflects you are a Canadian asking for help with getting supplies.
You will get the hang of this! It does get easier and we’ve all been in the same position as you at one time. :)
 
Judy and Freckles said:
I’m from Canada as well. Fancy Feast Pates are available at most grocery stores and Walmart/Superstore. I currently feed President’s Choice Extra Meaty Beef and Salmon (I fed FF in the past as well). My cat has acromegaly, IAA and diabetes but no other medical conditions.

I use Freestyle Lite test strips and glucometer. The test strips only require a very small blood droplet. I’ve been getting my strips off of EBay for about $40/100 (including shipping and exchange rate). The pharmacies are $75-80 for 100 strips.

I can send you the link for where to get needles and also the link for Canadian cat food links when I get on my computer (using my phone right now.).

You can create a post or do a search for what other Canadians are doing for food and supplies as well. More Canadians are apt to reply if your post title reflects you are a Canadian asking for help with getting supplies.
You will get the hang of this! It does get easier and we’ve all been in the same position as you at one time. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you for replying back Judy, does she have to use a human meter
like it says on the Lantus forum to do TR or SLGS, right now she is using the Alpha
Trak.
@Judy and Freckles
 
Dee1991 said:
I know. I’m sorry for being a broken record about this. It’s just that every time I tell my vet I want to stick to fancy feast I get told that’s the wrong choice to make. I was sure I’d stick to fancy feast until my family friends who are also vets suggested fancy feast wasn’t right. He’s not on any dry food no, currently just wet.

I’m not familiar with the terminology but essentially we started with 2 units, brought it down to 1, and then now I’m told to give .5 units if above 5.5mmol/L (I’m in Canada) and 0.25 when less than 5.5mmol/L.
Click to expand...
I took Minnie to an IM and a nutritionist and both told me fancy feast is actually pretty good and they know what they’re doing when it comes to pet food. I think you need to make the decision to do what’s best for your cat. Vets can be wrong and every cat is different. Just because DM works for some, it doesn’t mean it works for yours. Do what’s best for your cat and if your vet is not on board, I’d look for another vet. Diabetic cats need to eat. People here have been feeding fancy feast to their diabetic cats for years and they’ve been living healthy lives. We’re giving you the evidence you need, but you need to break free from the notion that vets know it all. They don’t. Even human doctors are not experts on nutrition because they’re not trained on it. The last suggestion I have is to make an appointment with a pet nutritionist and see what they’ll tell you
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I took Minnie to an IM and a nutritionist and both told me fancy feast is actually pretty good and they know what they’re doing when it comes to pet food. I think you need to make the decision to do what’s best for your cat. Vets can be wrong and every cat is different. Just because DM works for some, it doesn’t mean it works for yours. Do what’s best for your cat and if your vet is not on board, I’d look for another vet. Diabetic cats need to eat. People here have been feeding fancy feast to their diabetic cats for years and they’ve been living healthy lives. We’re giving you the evidence you need, but you need to break free from the notion that vets know it all. They don’t. Even human doctors are not experts on nutrition because they’re not trained on it. The last suggestion I have is to make an appointment with a pet nutritionist and see what they’ll tell you
Click to expand...

That’s comforting to hear, I’ll look into a pet nutritionist I’m my area. I had never thought of that! I think I needed that last little push to feel like it’s okay for me to feed him fancy feast or anything appropriate other than DM. It’s so hard when we’re both being told to suck it up!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Thank you for replying back Judy, does she have to use a human meter
like it says on the Lantus forum to do TR or SLGS, right now she is using the Alpha
Trak.
@Judy and Freckles
Click to expand...
No, you can use a pet meter or a human meter but choose one and stick with it since different meters give different numbers. The numbers that are referenced on the stickies on the FDMB are for human meters (Alphatrak meters typically show higher numbers so that needs to be taken into consideration when making decisions on doseage).

Please take note that the testing strips tend to be the primary cost of looking after a diabetic kitty so the caregiver has to be able to afford the strips and be willing to spend that kind of money which can add up fast in a hurry! Most vets aren’t even aware of the cost of strips for pet meters. In Canada an Alphatrac test strip is about $2.00/strip - test minimum 4 times a day and that adds up fast. The Alphatrak test strips are not any better than a human test strip and since the FDMB Information is based on human meter numbers, I switched to a human meter within 1 month of diagnosis.
 
Dee1991 said:
That’s comforting to hear, I’ll look into a pet nutritionist I’m my area. I had never thought of that! I think I needed that last little push to feel like it’s okay for me to feed him fancy feast or anything appropriate other than DM. It’s so hard when we’re both being told to suck it up!
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I personally really dislike any doctor that tells me to suck it up. This makes me think they’re giving the same advice to everyone and are unwilling to take the time to investigate each case on a case by case basis. We explored some prescription food for Minnie because of her IBD, but the moment I told her nutritionist that the transition failed because Minnie wouldn’t eat it, she told me to go back to fancy feast because the most important thing is that she eats. It’s like advocating for children. Sadly we have to push back because they’re our pets and we know what’s working and what’s not. I have to add that my personal experience with vets after going through a few to find the one I can work with, is that Minnie would be surely no longer here if I had listened to her previous vets. Her diabetes would never have gotten regulated, her neuropathy would have continued to get worse and her quality of life would have been nonexistent leaving me no other choice but to let her go. I look at her now and she’s my miracle kitty because she’s gone through hell and back, but I also know it’s because I did the research and knew what battles to pick that she had the best chance she could have to fight through it all. I gave her the tools and she ran with it.

I hope this helps you. You know in your heart what’s best. Listen to your instincts and you’ll both be fine :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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Judy and Freckles said:
I’m from Canada as well.

I can send you the link for where to get needles and also the link for Canadian cat food links when I get on my computer (using my phone right now.).

You can create a post or do a search for what other Canadians are doing for food and supplies as well. More Canadians are apt to reply if your post title reflects you are a Canadian asking for help with getting supplies.
You will get the hang of this! It does get easier and we’ve all been in the same position as you at one time. :)
Click to expand...

Here is the link for syringes. It's about 1/2 the price as the syringes in the pharmacy. It's for U-100 insulin. This specific link does not have 1/2 units marked on the barrel, but you might want to consider getting calipers to help measure as you get smaller and smaller doses anyways. Aboo's numbers are looking very pretty!

https://www.lifesupply.ca/allison-m...in-syringe-31g-5-16-8mm-100-bx-case-of-5-box/

Here is the large cat food database https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

And the Canadian one
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZVTk_tYNVRaoG_3Dfy64/edit?pli=1#gid=964479244

Unfortunately carb amounts are not required to be listed on the manufacturer's label so a person has to contact the company directly to get that information.
 
Judy and Freckles said:
No, you can use a pet meter or a human meter but choose one and stick with it since different meters give different numbers. The numbers that are referenced on the stickies on the FDMB are for human meters (Alphatrak meters typically show higher numbers so that needs to be taken into consideration when making decisions on doseage).

Please take note that the testing strips tend to be the primary cost of looking after a diabetic kitty so the caregiver has to be able to afford the strips and be willing to spend that kind of money which can add up fast in a hurry! Most vets aren’t even aware of the cost of strips for pet meters. In Canada an Alphatrac test strip is about $2.00/strip - test minimum 4 times a day and that adds up fast. The Alphatrak test strips are not any better than a human test strip and since the FDMB Information is based on human meter numbers, I switched to a human meter within 1 month of diagnosis.
Click to expand...
Thank you Judy
 
Judy and Freckles said:
Here is the link for syringes. It's about 1/2 the price as the syringes in the pharmacy. It's for U-100 insulin. This specific link does not have 1/2 units marked on the barrel, but you might want to consider getting calipers to help measure as you get smaller and smaller doses anyways. Aboo's numbers are looking very pretty!

https://www.lifesupply.ca/allison-m...in-syringe-31g-5-16-8mm-100-bx-case-of-5-box/

Here is the large cat food database https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

And the Canadian one
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZVTk_tYNVRaoG_3Dfy64/edit?pli=1#gid=964479244

Unfortunately carb amounts are not required to be listed on the manufacturer's label so a person has to contact the company directly to get that information.
Click to expand...

thank you Judy! These links are so helpful.
 
It's fine to use an AlphaTrack meter. The headache is that all of our dosing methods use numbers that are based on a human meter. And, just to complicate things further, there's really not a way to convert human meter numbers into AT numbers in a consistent way.

Since it sounds like you're planning on following TR (and I'm assuming there's no dry food in your cat's diet), the point for a dose reduction is 50/2.8 on a human meter and 68/3.8 on the AT. And that's where the available information ends when it comes to the comparison between meter values. With TR, if the numbers are not in a desirable range, one the depot is established, you increase the dose every 3 days/6 cycles.

I don't know how much of a price difference there is for strips in Canada. I don't think there's as much of a choice when it comes to inexpensive strips there. Lots of people in the US use Walmart's Relion meter and the strips are very inexpensive. Hopefully, one of our Canadian members will stop by and chime in.
 
Hi Dee,

Dee1991 said:
I’m understanding that I’ll stick to 0.5units and if his nadir goes lower than 3.8mmol over a few days that’ll be my indication to adjust and lower the insulin?
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If the nadir is lower than 3.8mmol/L on a pet meter or 2.8mmol/L on a human meter then the dose should be reduced immediately.

On food, the vets at the practice where Saoirse was registered at diagnosis insisted that she had to be fed Hill's w/d dry and no other food would be acceptable. I thought this was insane because they were recommending a very high carb food for a diabetic. (They're not alone in recommending this particular food, BTW.) Even the Hill's m/d dry has fewer carbs (and it's too high for a diabetic).

Shortly after she was diagnosed we moved to a different practice. Our main vet had a diabetic cat himself, positively advocated the feeding of a low carb wet diet for feline diabetics and, while he gave the initial recommendation for Purina DM canned food, he had no issue whatsoever with my wanting to try other low carb wet foods for Saoirse. I'm in the UK and I fed Saoirse Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly. Saoirse is another FDMB cat who achieved remission on a low carb commercial food.

Vets differ. Your cat has to eat. I agree with you that it's wrong to have a vet compel you to give an appetite stimulant to your already hungry cat in order to force him to ingest a food he does not want. In truth, I think it borders on the unethical.


Mogs
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Adrienne & Molly

@Butters & Lyla

Hi ladies @Dee1991 is from Canada do you use the U-100 syringes with half unit
markings, if so where do you buy them from.
Thank you
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Test strips in Canada are very expensive. There are a couple of less expensive human meter options. Check out this recent thread where test strip options in Canada are discussed at length:https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-in-canada.240760/#post-2709187

I buy the u-100 syringes with half unit markings from https://diabetesexpress.ca/. These ones, specifically: https://diabetesexpress.ca/collections/syringes/products/bd-ultrafine-ii-syringe-3-10cc-6mm-31g
Those have the 6mm syringe length, which is quite short. I think most people prefer these:
https://diabetesexpress.ca/collections/syringes/products/bd-uf-ii-syringe-3-10cc-31g-8mm

If you do switch to calipers for dosing as Judy suggested, the half unit markings aren't important. I use calipers and I measure the insulin doses on the side of the syringe without markings.
 
Dee1991 said:
It’s just that every time I tell my vet I want to stick to fancy feast I get told that’s the wrong choice to make.
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I am not fond of Fancy Feast myself, I never fed it either. For one thing, it's quite high in phosphorus so if you kitty has any kidney issues, it's not an appropriate food to feed. There are tons of other food options in Canada that are low carb and not DM.
Dee1991 said:
Anyone in Canada have a good website to order from?
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What part of Canada are you in? I'm in the Vancouver area and have found a great site that delivers to my door for free. :joyful: Awesome service, good prices and I don't have to go out in COVID times. Their electric delivery car has big cat ears on it. :cool:

As for shopping for syringes, I got mine at the local Safeway pharmacy. After shopping around at a few stores, it was the cheapest. Cheaper than the link Lyla included at diabetesexpress.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I am not fond of Fancy Feast myself, I never fed it either. For one thing, it's quite high in phosphorus so if you kitty has any kidney issues, it's not an appropriate food to feed. There are tons of other food options in Canada that are low carb and not DM.

What part of Canada are you in? I'm in the Vancouver area and have found a great site that delivers to my door for free. :joyful: Awesome service, good prices and I don't have to go out in COVID times. Their electric delivery car has big cat ears on it. :cool:

As for shopping for syringes, I got mine at the local Safeway pharmacy. After shopping around at a few stores, it was the cheapest. Cheaper than the link Lyla included at diabetesexpress.
Click to expand...


I’m also in the Vancouver area! Would you mind sharing the site that you use for the food delivery. And if you don’t mind me asking what foods you give your kitty? Outside from pancreatitis that seemed to be never ending and the initial present of ketones, I don’t think he has kidney problems. I should know given how many times he’s been the vet but apparently I black out every time they speak to me ‍♀️
 
Link to pet food delivery. They also sell litter, so they do the heavy lifting to your door. :)

I fed raw food, Red Dog/Blue Kat is made locally and I knew the person who sourced the ingredients, was one. I also made some with a premix. I had a second cat with cystitis, diagnosed a week after Neko's diabetes diagnosis :rolleyes:, anyway I asked his vet for a food that would be good for him and a diabetic and she suggested raw. Making my own was more cost effective that some canned foods, but of course a bit more work. There are lots of canned options you can feed and are available around here.
 
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