12/27 Butters AMPS 94/+2 149/+6 112/+9 85/PMPS 86/+2.5 124/

Butters & Lyla

Butters & Lyla

Very Active Member
Yesterday Butters enjoyed all of the gravy immensely, after dropping to the low 30s. I did a BCS to get the depot to drain a little, because she was getting pretty upset with all of the poking. I was getting tired. She went into a bounce in the PM cycle.

Overnight, she and I must have been very tired, because neither of us heard the autofeeder go off. The snacks went uneaten, which hasn't happened in months.

I want to try giving her another protein. I have raw bison and lamb and chicken I made up a while ago, but I'm not sure now is a good time. With the two reductions in less than 48 hours plus the BCS, if I change proteins and her numbers creep up and stay up then I won't know whether it is because of the protein change or the reductions. I may try to give her a little bit of the others here and there, if she will go for it, but maybe it is best to stick with the pork until I know what is going to happen with the 3.75U dose.

Last night was a 2.25U dose. This morning is 3.75U, which I am counting as cycle 2.

Have a great day, all!
 
Nice of Butters to confirm with her AMPS the BCS was a good strategy :p Good luck with the new dose and Butter's menu :bighug: Surprised you didn't add fried chicken ;)

And FWIW I would count today as cycle 1...since you're building the depot for 3.75? I thought BCS fell into furshot category where we are supposed to restart counts at the next shot? But maybe you have different insight :bighug:

Hope you have a wonderful day :bighug:
 
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Am surprised and thrilled to see that 94! I hope you both got rest. :bighug:
Makes sense not to make any changes to diet etc so that you know that it's only the dose that is affecting the numbers.

Come on Butters! I know you're going to work the 3.75U too!
 
Nice amps. Looks like the effect of the BCS might have caused the +2 increase. I agree that this is cycle one. Surf the blues Butters. I’m glad you both slept soundly. Naps today for you I hope.

I would wait a little longer before adding a different protein. I’ve never found bison here but mine do like lamb.
 
I agree with others about not changing up food just yet. That way you'll know it's only the insulin dose affecting BG.
I'm glad you did the BCS last night as she was still in the green this morning. Surf safely today Butters :bighug: Have a great day Lyla :)
 
Best today with the new dose :bighug:.

I personally would wait on adding anything to the diet right now. There is plenty of time to mix in some new proteins down the road.

I would like to see that the glucose continues to decrease, less insulin is needed and then work on discontinuing the Bupe at some point followed by the Gabapentin before changing the diet. That is the one caveat here.....there is still pain med in the mix. It is perfectly fine that you are still using Bupe & Gabapentin :)but eventually, the only way to really know what the diet change is actually doing (or not doing) with respect to decreasing inflammation- GI & pancreas-would be to work on discontinuing the meds. If reductions &/or discontinuation fails, there is still an inflammatory issue despite the change in diet. However, I want to point out that just because the diet change may not fix this issue 100% on its own, it is still a very powerful tool by helping to at least decrease some of the inflammation that may have been caused by (or aggravated by) a previous diet :). In the end, this of course helps with managing glucose and minimizing insulin resistance, so it is still a success vs a failure :p.

When I have used fecal biome testing to try to get some sense of what diet change or the addition of certain probiotics are doing, the nutritionist we work with recommends 90 days on the new diet or supplements before testing. It takes some time for microbiome changes to occur in the gut. Once again, patience & the fact that sometimes the act of doing nothing is actually doing something comes into play :D.
 
Today is cycle 1 of 3.75U:smuggrin:.

Naps sound good. I could use one. But there are so many other things I want to do. Cleaning, working out, taking a shower longer than 5 minutes, cooking. I have a list. Those tasks all seemed impossible to accomplish yesterday. I find the 30 minute test/feed cycles use a lot of mental energy, too. My brain was toast by a certain point.

I had found the bison a while back preground in the freezer of the butcher I go to for Butters. It was so exciting! I'd never seen it before nor have I seen it since. I will buy more pork then and keep feeding that for now. I'd like to change things up a little, but agree it is best not to so I'll just put those patience pants back on. But I have so much food made up plus packages of exotic preground meats just waiting to be turned into cat food...90 days is a long, long time:).

I agree I need to remove the pain meds to know for sure what the diet change may actually be doing. I have been much too nervous to touch them but I obviously want to try weaning her off. I was thinking, like the food, that I shouldn't change the pain meds until she settles down on a dose. Or maybe if her numbers stay put for a while, I could try removing a dose of bupe.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Or maybe if her numbers stay put for a while, I could try removing a dose of bupe.
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As long as her clinical signs are good & she has been consistently feeling well, along with having BG nice and steady, that would be a good time to try reducing it. No rush! Keep in mind when there has been nice, solid consistency with the clinical signs/behavior and with BG, it will be easier to recognize if the decrease is an issue & you will be able to address it easily & quickly :).
 
tiffmaxee said:
Has her tummy remained nice and soft?
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Yes, it has been consistently soft for the past few days. I last noticed a slightly hard tummy four days ago. She was irritable that day, but her numbers weren't too bad.

Tomlin said:
As long as her clinical signs are good & she has been consistently feeling well, along with having BG nice and steady, that would be a good time to try reducing it. No rush! Keep in mind when there has been nice, solid consistency with the clinical signs/behavior and with BG, it will be easier to recognize if the decrease is an issue & you will be able to address it easily & quickly :).
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As I think it through after responding to Elise's question...irritable and stomach a touch on the hard side four days ago...butters is not quite at "solid consistency" just yet":). I won't be rushing too quickly.
 
JaxBenji said:
And FWIW I would count today as cycle 1...since you're building the depot for 3.75? I thought BCS fell into furshot category where we are supposed to restart counts at the next shot? But maybe you have different insight.
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Nope, I have no insight whatsoever. LOL. I just put it out there and figured I'd be corrected soon enough if I was wrong:joyful:. Thanks for catching that:bighug:.
 
Surprised to see the +9 and the pre-shot both <100. I'm glad I did the BCS. Hopefully the effects of that are now completely behind her and I can focus on seeing whether the 3.75U dose keeps her in normal numbers.
 
Sounds like you two are working out all the wrinkles and Butters is making good progress! Lyla I've got to hand it to you...you're a devoted Mama Bean Extraordinarie! Butter's is a lucky girl to have such a great mama!

I hope you're able to have some time off (from your other job) to take care of your 'to-do' list!

Have a good evening!:bighug:
 
Have you discussed with your vet whether it’s better to try decreasing the bupe or the gabapentin first? Because Butters has CKD, and gabapentin should be used cautiously with cats with CKD, I’d ask about decreasing it first. I gave a very low dose of bupe for years (for arthritis) to one of my elderly cats with CKD with no side effects or issues. IMHO, it’s a better option for CKD cats than gabapentin but, again, I’d recommend discussing this with your vet which is the best resource since each of us here probably has our “go-to” remedies.

Lovely day today, Butters!
 
tiffmaxee said:
I only used bupe with Max. I wonder if the reason it didn’t work alone for Butters was because the dose was too low.
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I wonder this too.....

Marje and Gracie said:
Have you discussed with your vet whether it’s better to try decreasing the bupe or the gabapentin first? Because Butters has CKD, and gabapentin should be used cautiously with cats with CKD, I’d ask about decreasing it first. I gave a very low dose of bupe for years (for arthritis) to one of my elderly cats with CKD with no side effects or issues. IMHO, it’s a better option for CKD cats than gabapentin but, again, I’d recommend discussing this with your vet which is the best resource since each of us here probably has our “go-to” remedies.

Lovely day today, Butters!
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My vet is leaving it up to me to decide which one to decrease first. Like Elise, I'd wondered if I was giving her too low a dose of bupe. This is probably why I planned to remove it first.

She is getting gabapentin because the second hospital put her on it, 50mg q8. She had scary side effects, so I cut the dose in half and then used the low dose bupe from the first hospital to supplement. I had a whole back and forth with the second hospital on wanting to give her bupe instead of gabapentin, but they would only give me three days' worth: (0.5mg/mL concentration) dose: .14mL q8.The Internal Medicine vet had promised me enough meds until Butters' appointment with her new vet at the end of November, but she became upset with how I was handling Butters' diabetes. So I continued with 25mg gabapentin q8 and rationed the bupe I had.

Her new vet immediately gave me a couple of months' worth of bupe at the same 0.5mg/mL concentration and same dose: up to .14mL q8, and a refill on the gabapentin. He knows I have enough sense not to overdose her on either medication so it's in my hands. But her BG numbers had skyrocketed so I was worried about making any changes. So I have kept on giving her 25mg gabapentin q8 and what is probably an ineffective dose of bupe. I'm giving her around .1mL - .12mL bupe q12.

I've heard before that gabapentin isn't great for cats with CKD. I think about this a lot, actually. Maybe I should plan to wean her off gabapentin at least, and try the full prescribed dose of bupe.
 
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Like Elise, I only have only needed Bupe for T. I just adjusted the dose based on what he needed. As he felt better, he needed less & then I was also able to spread the dosing out (TID to BID).

It would make sense to maximize the effectiveness of one drug vs using 2 less effective doses of 2 drugs. I know the side effects of gabapentin were an issue for Butters so maybe Bupe will be the better pain management med for her :).
 
You are doing such a wonderful job with Butters, Lyla!! I'm so glad she's feeling better and her BG is doing well. Keep surfing safely, Butters! Hope you sorted out your credit card too. Did Butters own up to buying chicken?
 
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