? 12-14 oj pmps 442, +1 412, +2 269, +3 143. Dropping too fast?

Luxe

Luxe

Member Since 2020
Hellooo. I was just wondering if i should give him a snack to keep him from dropping so fast. He definitely bounced today because he dipped lower than usual last night as well
 
Yes. Give a lc snack. He will probably bounce from both going lower than used t and the big drop.
 
What carb % and how much food did he get at shot time?
What carb% choices do you have on hand?
What is your regular feeding strategy (+hours, amount and carb %)?
 
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
What carb % and how much food did he get at shot time?
What carb% choices do you have on hand?
What is your regular feeding strategy (+hours, amount and carb %)?
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He ate 2 cans of fancy feast pate at shot time. From the food chart i used on here it said i believe they are only 1 or 2% carbs. I do have ones with gravy which i know are hugher carb but not sure how much and i have dry food as well which he hasnt had in 4weeks. I just gave him a chunk of boiled chicken breast

he eats 1 1/2- 2 cans of the fancy feast pate at both shot times. At +1 after his first shot he gets a spoon or two of friskies pate when the other cats get their wet food for lunch. At 6+ he usually gets a chunk of boiled chicken because he begs at the table. After his pm shot my mom gives him usually another half can of the fancy feast between +1 and +2 before she goes to bed because he's still prowling the kitchen most nights
 
How much does he weigh? Did he lose weight since ketones came on the scene?

ETA- tell me about the problem tooth mentioned on the ss.
 
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Sandy and Black Kitty said:
How much does he weigh? Did he lose weight since ketones came on the scene?

ETA- tell me about the problem tooth mentioned on the ss.
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I just checked him again and his +3 was 143. His last weight at the vets 6 days ago was 10.4 lbs which is 1.5 lbs more than he weighed when he was first diagnosed. He's still a bit on the thin side, you can see where his hips are a little sunken in still. His normal weight was 13-14lbs.
He originally was going to the vet for an extraction on 11/9. We noticed he was losing weight and eating funny. Vet said he had a tooth that needed to be pulled so at his apt for that they realized he was dka during the pre anesthesia labwork. He still has the tooth in. The emergency vet he stayed at for almost 3 days wouldnt touch it and his regular vet wont either unless his BG regulates. All they were doing was giving me onisor or gabapentin for him. So last week i swapped vets. We started the freestyle libre, kept up with the gabapentin and she also gave him a convenia shot that would last 2weeks incase he had an infection because of the tooth or his chin acne flair up. I'll be talking to her tomorrow hopefully. She wanted a few days of readings from the libre before she gave me an answer on doing his dental but his first libre was defective. This one he's had on for 3 days. I emailed her the charts and called to get a refill on his gabapentin but she was off today so we didnt get to discuss his results so far.

I recently pushed him to 3.25 units because he wasnt hitting low nadirs and we're doing TR as im trying to get him regulated asap for his dental to happen. Im wondering if its too high and we should go back down to 3 or if im just worrying because in the month since he was diagnosed we really havent seen many numbers below 300
 
I just made another thread. I ended up giving him a whole can because he's still dropping. He ate it bo problem considering i woke him up and carried him out to the kitchen. +4 was 109 but within half hr it was saying 66. He ate about 20minutes ago. Going to check him again in 10minutes and see
 
So that would be about +5, is that correct?
I would keep an eye on the BG. If he keeps dropping you can give him some higher carb food around 12%
 
Okay will do. Im hoping it does. I recently bumped him to 3.25 following TR but now im wondering if i should bump him back down to 3
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
So that would be about +5, is that correct?
I would keep an eye on the BG. If he keeps dropping you can give him some higher carb food around 12%
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Yup. 20minutes he'll be at his +5. Maybe the 3.25 is too much and he needs to back to 3?? He bounced last night too but his lowest was around 175 and then he was up in the mid 600s a few hours later and he stayed in the reds for most of the day
 
LindyNova said:
I do believe with the Alphatrak2 meter, he may have earned a reduction back to 3 units (below 68)
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Okay. Right now we're using the freestyle libre. I've been using alphatrak only when the libre says too hi and i cant get an actual number. I have it in the note section on my ss
 
Let me start by saying that my BK went DKA twice and that he is the poster child for the relationship between bad teeth and BG.

A few observations and recommendations-

The way your ss reads, over the course of one cycle you are using the alpha track for some BG readings and the freestyle libre for other readings. It is in your cats best interest that you not combine readings from an alpha track (pet specific) meter and a meter for humans. It should be one or the other and being that the dosing methods used here were developed with meters calibrated for humans and numbers referenced here correspond with human meters for best results I recommend you purchase one of the many human meters available on the market and stick with it. You will be glad you did...and so will your wallet

I’m glad to see regular monitoring for ketones. That is your first line of defense. I want to make sure that you understand how a kitty ends up with DKA.

The way it works is that when there is not enough energy from food making it into the cells, the body will breakdown its own fat and protein to try and fulfill the need for more metabolic energy. The excessive breakdown of these stored reserves creates a toxic by-product - ketones. As ketones build up in the blood stream, the resulting pH and electrolyte imbalances can very quickly develop to life threatening levels , a state of DKA. My BK went from 'negative' to 'large' in eactly 24 hours.
The recipe for ketone development is -
not enough insulin + not enough calories + infection/inflammation... as the infection and inflammation that can result from bad teeth & gums.

Luxe said:
I recently pushed him to 3.25 units because he wasnt hitting low nadirs and we're doing TR as im trying to get him regulated asap for his dental to happen.
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He is in a catch 22 being that the high BG is likely being fueled by the bad teeth. Look for a veterinary dental specialist.
 
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The alphatrak i've been using when the libre says too high just to get an idea of where he's at. And his first libre was defective so for those couple days i ended up switching back to the alphatrak. I will be switching him over to a human meter once i run out of the alphatrak strips with what i paid for them i want to use them up. I have about half a bottle left. The libre the vet wanted to do so she could have a more accurate idea of how he does over the course of a day as i've been working a ton and nobody else in my household feels comfortable checking his blood or giving him injections.

I've tried a few vets. No dental specialists near me. Nobody will do it. This vet im using now is the only one willing to potentially do the dental. I dont know if they're worried about liability reasons or not. I even had one vet go so far as to tell me "when he dies on a table somewhere it'll be my fault" for pushing for him to get the tooth removed. Needless to say i will not be taking him back to that vet as that was a really unprofessional thing to say to a concerned client
 
I've merged your two posts of tonight - we ask that you do just one to keep all the action in one place.

Now might be a good time to try a test with your AT meter, to see how the Libre and AT compare at lower numbers.
 
It'll also help if you keep the spreadsheet updated with the latest numbers, especially the lowest one so far.
 
I just checked him with the libre. Half hour since he's eaten and it says 58 :(( i'll check him with the alphatrak now
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I've merged your two posts of tonight - we ask that you do just one to keep all the action in one place.

Now might be a good time to try a test with your AT meter, to see how the Libre and AT compare at lower numbers.
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The libre said 58 and the AT said 99. Should i give him some corn syrup??
 
99 on the AT is fine, below 68 is where you worry on the AT. Try a couple tsps of his regular food.
 
Looks like he's starting to turn it around.
 

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Good news that he's turning it around! You might want to look at having a couple cans of slightly higher carb food around, in the 7-9% range. Just in case you need to give him a little nudge up some time. Cats differ in how carb sensitive they are, some need a bit more carbs than others to put the brakes on.

As for dose, he earns reduction by going under 90 on the AT if you are following SLGS, under 68 if following TR , sounds like he stopped at 99. These healing numbers are what you want him to see.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Good news that he's turning it around! You might want to look at having a couple cans of slightly higher carb food around, in the 7-9% range. Just in case you need to give him a little nudge up some time. Cats differ in how carb sensitive they are, some need a bit more carbs than others to put the brakes on.

As for dose, he earns reduction by going under 90 on the AT if you are following SLGS, under 68 if following TR , sounds like he stopped at 99. These healing numbers are what you want him to see.
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Thank you! I'll definitely buy some different wet foods tomorrow. I do still have his old dry food from before he was diagnosed which im sure is way up there in carbs if im in a pinch. Im definitely trying to stick to TR. and i also definitely panicked seeing these numbers. I know they're more a normal range but since we havent seen "normal" since he was diagnosed i kind of freaked out. With everything going on with him i also totally let my own personal RX run out without realizing it so im extra anxious. But okay so tomorrow when i talk to my vet she's going to tell me to lower his dose after these lows. She was already trying to talk me into it last week when he was in the 300s mostly. Do i keep doing my thing here with his dosing?? I just hate lying to people but i also want to do whats right for him.
Scanning in 15min intervals now. He went from 78-62 on the libre so i'll keep staying up
 
Everybody freaks out the first time they see these numbers! :bighug: You did a great job not dumping carbs on him.

We have a saying "you hold the syringe". Meaning you ultimately make the dosing decisions. 3.0 units wasn't getting him much of anywhere but you have to decide what your goals are for Oj and what your risk tolerance is. It's a good thing you tested with the AT to see what it read, though there is a bit of delay between the AT and the libre - they aren't reading exactly the same thing at the same time. There is also a chance he might bounce tomorrow, so don't worry if you see temporary higher numbers again.
 
Thats what happened today too. Originally was just saying too high so had to use the AT for his amps and +2 reads. Then he stuck in the 400s. Right bow he's getting restless. I shut him in the bathroom with me because i didnt want him going under anything and not being able to reach him. He keeps meowing and clawing at the door. He threw up right before his pmps idk if that would have any affect on him going so low. He ate two cans of food immediately after that and kept it down no problem with his shot though. We put the tree up today which he thinks is a snack because when he threw up it was all fake pine needles :facepalm: just scanned at another 15mins. He went from 66 to 106. I'll give him one more interval before i set him free before he destroys the door lol
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Good plan, looks like you are almost done for the night.
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+6 154 so he's movin on up and im going to get 2hrs of sleep before my alarm goes off and i have to leave for work. Hes strutting around purring and rubbing his chin on everything so he's feeling fine
Thanks for being there!
 
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