? Mocha's Mom of old- needs help 14 yr female borderline kidney

[Mocha aka Cold Play]

She has just above numbers for blood and urine to fall within kidney issues beginning.

With Covid I will have brief phone consult when go back for Callie's dental in a few weeks. I am contemplating getting a water fountain. She drinks well after wet food. I will pull all dry away from her and Latte ( a few years younger).

Does anyone have scientific evidence the fountain helps them consume more water? I know her shelter had it and I took a picture of her drinking from it. The other cat would never have seen it. We give filtered water only now.

Any good wet food choice?
She will not go raw food.

Thanks. It is hard to be back here. But, I don't want to have yet another loss in the next year. Still dealing with February loss of Buddy, due to undetected heart condition.

Should I be in different forum?

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Hi sorry t hear about Mocha but if she's just in the begining of kidney issues prognosis is actually quite good, and is a very good time to start taking care of those kidneys so that the problem does not advance and who knows maybe she will never actually have a bad kidney problem.

At early stages the best you can do is watch her diet, maybe add some supplements and encourage her to drink more water, that can be acomplished by adding a bit of water to her food ( as much as she accepts some cats don't mind getting a suppy food but others are more piky) and even though I'm not aware of scientific research about the fountains from my experience they do like to drink water from the fountains, I've read and observed they kind of like the moving water, I also noticed they like the stainless steel ones better ( just my experince from having tried a few) actually they also like drinking water from stainless steel plates more than from ceramic ones (again just my observations) .

Regarding the type of food at early stages it is not recomended to give them renal food ( big warning here for diabetic cats because renal food is usually very high in carbs ) just normal wet food (always wet because you want her getting as much water as possible) as low as you can find in phosphorus content and she will accept ( for them to eat well is better than having the right food but them not eating it) if you take a look at Dr. Lisa's list go for the one that you can get with the lower carb content (10% or less), lower phoshporus content ( 250 or lower) and higher content of protein, there are some options in there with this characteristics

Here's a link to Tanya's web page that is in my opinon the best place for getting information about cronic kydney desease
http://www.felinecrf.org/how_bad_is_it.htm

 

[Critter Mom]

I second the recommendation for Tanya's Site. It's an absolute goldmine of information. (Thank you, Helen!)


Mogs
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[Mocha aka Cold Play]

Great content. I appreciate it. I am thankful that after testing many wet foods to try to eliminate all or any dry the 2 of them have identified 3 they like. I do add water each serving so they are getting alot of water, though it looks like gravy, each time water is added to keep it creamy for them or they will not eat it. So, the cans are a great source of water. I will check their choices against the revised list of analysis that is posted on this forum. Let's hope they are in a good range to keep.

It is funny about the moving water only because the cat without any obvious health concern and no blood run at this time, she sits at the bowl in the morning and she prefers to drink it if I swirl my clean finger in it. What we do for those we love!

Hi sorry t hear about Mocha but if she's just in the begining of kidney issues prognosis is actually quite good, and is a very good time to start taking care of those kidneys so that the problem does not advance and who knows maybe she will never actually have a bad kidney problem.

At early stages the best you can do is watch her diet, maybe add some supplements and encourage her to drink more water, that can be acomplished by adding a bit of water to her food ( as much as she accepts some cats don't mind getting a suppy food but others are more piky) and even though I'm not aware of scientific research about the fountains from my experience they do like to drink water from the fountains, I've read and observed they kind of like the moving water, I also noticed they like the stainless steel ones better ( just my experince from having tried a few) actually they also like drinking water from stainless steel plates more than from ceramic ones (again just my observations) .

Regarding the type of food at early stages it is not recomended to give them renal food ( big warning here for diabetic cats because renal food is usually very high in carbs ) just normal wet food (always wet because you want her getting as much water as possible) as low as you can find in phosphorus content and she will accept ( for them to eat well is better than having the right food but them not eating it) if you take a look at Dr. Lisa's list go for the one that you can get with the lower carb content (10% or less), lower phoshporus content ( 250 or lower) and higher content of protein, there are some options in there with this characteristics

Here's a link to Tanya's web page that is in my opinon the best place for getting information about cronic kydney desease
http://www.felinecrf.org/how_bad_is_it.htm

 

[Mocha aka Cold Play]

Thank you as well. We never want to feel alone in our process. This is the first time I have had a vet (I really trust) say the labs were all "good." Instead of getting a diagnosis when the function was already almost gone. But, then, she just kindly said Callie is just borderline to be beginning. I know her approach was because she knows I mourn Buddy and Mocha already and she wanted to be positive.

I second the recommendation for Tanya's Site. It's an absolute goldmine of information. (Thank you, Helen!)


Mogs
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[Mocha aka Cold Play]

I looked at the review because the search has been significant to get them to eat not just lick the contents. When you feel the "food" it is often rubbery, so I see why not and I don't buy them. So 2 of the 3 I found on the list. They like the Fancy Feast Medley Florentine in the TURKEY and the TUNA. But, the phosphorus if way high on the tuna to 394! the Turkey is at least closer at 292. The carb count is only 4-5 carbs higher than recommended. So that is within reason and certainly better than they not eat and want dry. I have actually removed all dry in a few days. I do put significant water in with each serving, so reduced cream, does that help the phosphorus issue and kidney? I don't see anything else they will eat as we have tried so much. They eat a FF Creamy Delight Salmon Feast but I don't see these as they are new. I will have Callie's dental in a few weeks and talk to the vet also. Anything to comment?

I second the recommendation for Tanya's Site. It's an absolute goldmine of information. (Thank you, Helen!)


Mogs
.

 

[Critter Mom]

I can't say much in terms of specifics on the grub, Kari. I try to work with the targets that Helen gives on Tanya's Site:

* Protein: Max 35% DMB.
* Phosphorus: As close as possible to 0.49% DMB.
* Sodium: As near to 0.2% DMB as you can get.

In line with the recommendation on Tanya's Site, if blood work shows that serum phosphorus is >1.9 then a phosphorus binder can be introduced to balance out too high a phosphorus content in the diet. Managing protein content for cats in later IRIS stages is trickier if the cat won't eat a therapeutic renal support diet.

I managed to transition my civvie, Lúnasa, onto a renal support food but she eventually refused to eat it. [ETA: Lúnasa is IRIS stage III.] She has also been very up and down since finishing her most recent course of antibiotics. In desperation I put her on a mix of 50:50 renal support diet to her previous digestive support diet. Result? She's eating, and she's feeling much better. Essentially I got my cat back but the protein % is too high.

Despite all our efforts to optimise the diet to help the condition best, sometimes the right food is what the cat will actually eat.


Mogs
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[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Considering that Mocha is just borderline I would not lower the protein intake, that is usually recomended in the late stages, because you do not want her to loose muscle mass, so go as high as you can in protein intake with as low phosphorus as you can

Also I would consider the phosphorus binder only if her phosphorus numbers are high ( above 4.5-5 mg/dl) and diet change does not work, unfortunatedly Fancy Feast is a bit higher in phosuphorus content than what you would like to help her kidneys I do suggest you look for other brands that do have lower phosphorus content considering that Mocha is diabetic so a renal diet is not an option because they are way way high in carbs I find it easier to use Dr Lisa's list ( the one we use here at the forum) and look for food that is less than 10% in carbs and less than 250 in phosphorus and as high in protein as possible

 

[Mocha aka Cold Play]

I know it is confusing, the reference to Mocha and her picture on the pillow are not in regard to Callie. I lost Mocha 2-22-16. I am only using her profile to bring forward the issues I have with Callie that were noticed in borderline bloodwork for dental.

Callie is not diabetic.

I lost my sugar baby and never a day I don't notice.

So, how does this information change your response below if any?

Thanks,
Kari

Considering that Mocha is just borderline I would not lower the protein intake, that is usually recomended in the late stages, because you do not want her to loose muscle mass, so go as high as you can in protein intake with as low phosphorus as you can

Also I would consider the phosphorus binder only if her phosphorus numbers are high ( above 4.5-5 mg/dl) and diet change does not work, unfortunatedly Fancy Feast is a bit higher in phosuphorus content than what you would like to help her kidneys I do suggest you look for other brands that do have lower phosphorus content considering that Mocha is diabetic so a renal diet is not an option because they are way way high in carbs I find it easier to use Dr Lisa's list ( the one we use here at the forum) and look for food that is less than 10% in carbs and less than 250 in phosphorus and as high in protein as possible

 

[JanetNJ]

Some of my cats will only drink from the fountains, others will use either a bowl or fountain. I have two bowls and two fountains.

So if your cat had kidney issues switch to low carb and low phosphorus. My diabetic has ckd... I feed her weruva foods.


Weruva slide and serve pate foods Family Food (.97 phosphorus and 0 carb). Also Jeopurrdy Chicken (0.97 P 6.1 carb)

Weruva Steak Frites (0.57 phosphorus 5.5 carb although I take out any big pieces of potatoes to try to limit the carbs just a bit)

Weruva LA isla Bonita - phosphorus 0.77 carb 4.5 (used to like, not a favorite anymore)
Glam and punk 1% carb, 0.93 phosphorous.

Weruva paw lickin chicken 3.3 carb 0.82 p and
Press your lunch 5.9 carb. 0.82 phosphorous

Bff play Laugh Out Loud chicken and lamb 7.7 carb, 0.82 phosphorous

BFF play destiny (chicken and duck) 0.87 phosphorus 7.7 carb

Bff play chicken cherish 0.71 phosphorus 7.6 carb

Bff play best buds chicken and beef 7.9 carb 0.9 phosphorus

Bff play chicken Checkmate. 7.7 carb 0.7 phos

New favorite On the Cat Wok 3.8 carb 0.74 phos

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

So, how does this information change your response below if any?

I'm very sorry for my confusion .

It does give you a bit more options in choosing the since you could go a bit higher in carbs if it is really necesary, but if it were me I would still try and give Callie low phosphorus and low carb, one of my cyvies has CKD (she's stage 2-3) and is getting low carb, low phosphorus and more o less high good quality protein food

 

[Critter Mom]

So if your cat had kidney issues switch to low carb and low phosphorus.

Bookmarking that post! Thank you, Janet.


Mogs
.

 

[Mocha aka Cold Play]

I just wonder why the more healthy choices are not in flavors either of mine will eat. Both will eat the Turkey Florentines and the Salmon. But, so MANY choices that are more healthy are beef? chicken? duck? Those will not work. So frustrating to make the best choice but if they don't eat it, that is another problem.

Some of my cats will only drink from the fountains, others will use either a bowl or fountain. I have two bowls and two fountains.

So if your cat had kidney issues switch to low carb and low phosphorus. My diabetic has ckd... I feed her weruva foods.


Weruva slide and serve pate foods Family Food (.97 phosphorus and 0 carb). Also Jeopurrdy Chicken (0.97 P 6.1 carb)

Weruva Steak Frites (0.57 phosphorus 5.5 carb although I take out any big pieces of potatoes to try to limit the carbs just a bit)

Weruva LA isla Bonita - phosphorus 0.77 carb 4.5 (used to like, not a favorite anymore)
Glam and punk 1% carb, 0.93 phosphorous.

Weruva paw lickin chicken 3.3 carb 0.82 p and
Press your lunch 5.9 carb. 0.82 phosphorous

Bff play Laugh Out Loud chicken and lamb 7.7 carb, 0.82 phosphorous

BFF play destiny (chicken and duck) 0.87 phosphorus 7.7 carb

Bff play chicken cherish 0.71 phosphorus 7.6 carb

Bff play best buds chicken and beef 7.9 carb 0.9 phosphorus

Bff play chicken Checkmate. 7.7 carb 0.7 phos

New favorite On the Cat Wok 3.8 carb 0.74 phos

 

[JanetNJ]

I just wonder why the more healthy choices are not in flavors either of mine will eat. Both will eat the Turkey Florentines and the Salmon. But, so MANY choices that are more healthy are beef? chicken? duck? Those will not work. So frustrating to make the best choice but if they don't eat it, that is another problem.

Oh Snap! Is salmon. 3.3 carb and 1.1 phosphorus. There are more choices them I posted. https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/

 

[Mocha aka Cold Play]

Can you tell how say 292 phosphorus/100 kcals transfers to .49% dmb?

A dry has .9% phosphorus but I assume that is worse that above 292?

 

[JanetNJ]

Can you tell how say 292 phosphorus/100 kcals transfers to .49% dmb?

A dry has .9% phosphorus but I assume that is worse that above 292?

So you are looking for either less than 1% or under 200 kcals on a dry matter basis. So the.9 food is better for phosphorus.... But now look at the carbs as well. In general wet is best just from a moisture standpoint.