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Ummlee and Vengeance

Ummlee and Vengeance

Member Since 2020
HI ..

First off glad there is somewhere that has people who are going thru this and have knowledge... My cat Vengeance who is now 7 years old was just diagnosed last friday.. hes been at the vets till today and they decided to let him come home.. long story coming up btw this might jump all over the place I type as I think and its not always linear...sorry

So he was 7 in July I bottle raised him from 5 days old hes an indoor cat I have 2 indoor cats the other has had no health problems, Vengeance/Venge has had plenty hes had a couple of upper respiratory infections over the years but had been good for the last 2 or 3 until Feb of this year when he had a urinary blockage/UTI which ended up with me taking him into the vet for an emergency procedure at 4am on a Sat.. he was in the hospital then for 4 days then got sent home.. previously they were both eating Grain free supposed to be good cat food (whole earth farms) so then the vet said no he needs to be on the prescp urinary and weight management food being at that time he was 16.8lbs and they wanted him to loose weight also.. he flat out refused to eat any of the precrip foods they had me buy he would rather have starved so I got to reading and read that a full wet diet is better for crystals than most prescrip cat foods (they prescribed the dry and wet of the science diet foods he would not touch either after 3 days of not eating I was getting worried) So I started giving him the fancy feast and he ate it up and same with little shebas ..so they cats were both on full wet diets.. jump to Aug and Vengeance starts acting weird again so 7pm on a Sat emergency visit to vet he is semi blocked again... soo they give me some meds give him antibiotics urethra relaxers and a steroid and send him home this time being hes not fully blocked like the last and didnt need to be put to sleep and oddly he is sitting on my bed with me and all of a sudden he pees on my bed out of no where and there sitting on the bed is a crystal... so I call vets on monday they say if nothing else is wrong no need to bring him in.. he does pee blood here and there for a few days after which they say is normal after passing a crystal..

SOO we jump to last week

So over the last few months he had been loosing weight and I had assumed it was due to the new food he was on I had him on a mix of purina pro urinary and weight management and had cut down the amount of food I was giving I am a sucker for the cat beg give me some wet food also ..... but he had always been a larger cat all of his life I weighted him at home and he was down to 11.8 lbs which to me he looks like skin and bones at that weight.. well over the last month or so he kept coughing which I thought were hair balls that never come up being he does over groom his belly since the first blockage... but it kept getting more and more frequent so I was like NO I need to take him in get check.. with all the time he had been back and forth they never mentioned any breathing issues.. well last wends they tell me he he has mild asthma.. WHAT??? where since when??? so they choose to give him a shot of Depo-medrol for the inflammation to help with the cough( no blood work thinking its astma and they had done blood work in Aug)..they tell me that he will prob get very thirsty and drink and pee a lot for the next few days to a week..well he is gorging on water then later I will hear him Barf and I go in and its just a pile of water on the floor.. me hoping and reading online its possible side effect of the med I am think ok will give him a day or so and see how he acts.. well he does it 4 times from wends till 5am Friday morning ( I have severe insomnia so I usually dont go to bed till like 5 am or so and hes my constant companion and shadow..) and hes just not acting right so I make the decision to bring him back in Friday morning.. get in the office and see the vet and tell them about his throwing up being sluggish and etc and we decide best to do blood work.. vet comes back and say .. HE's DIABETIC and Severely dehydrated and his glucose is over 600 his urine and blood are full of ketones and that Im very lucky I brought him in.. that they need to put him on a Insulin drip and Iv ASAP.. so they put him on that and I go back later that day to check on him and hes just out of it doesnt know who I am etc so Im scared of course hes in the cage with cone and IVs in him etc... the issue from what I have read is that the Depo-medrol causes havoc in diabetic cats and can send their systems into overdrive.. so Sat I go see him hes still lethargic refuses to eat or drink they he is still on IV and insulin drip trying to equalize him.. didnt see him sunday but vet says hes same I go in monday and hes the same but they have dropped his lvls down to 385 Tues hes a little better acting and levels are getting better had gotten him down to 285 but they had seen a small amount of blood in his urine which scared them and me that he might have a blockage starting due to being so dehydrated (he has 2 fountains in the house so he has access to tons of water and I only give the cats purified bottle water being we have hard water where I live and I had read that can cause crystals and stones so I switched them to purified bottled water a few months back) they vet is worried about him not eating and them force feeding him.. so we discuss me taking him home.. Tues hes like a diff cat hes like MY cat again he is loving on me they let me have a exam room with him for an hour and hes walking around and being nosey loving on me.. but I try and get him to eat and he retches at any food... So they vet says they will up the anti nausea meds and that IF his levels are semi ok today and his electrolytes etc are up that I can bring him home to see if he will eat.. they call me this morning and tell me that they want to try sending him home... that he did eat some of his hard kibble (purina proplan urinary) and that one of the vet techs got him to eat some of it out of his hand also... and that he was acting with energy not lethargic as he had been and no blood in urine they had only seen 2 small amounts on Monday and none since.. so they show me how to give injections ( which I had watched a ton of vids since last fri and many years ago I had a friend who had to give injections to her cat so I had seen it done)

So they have prescribed him Vetsulin 10ml 3 units twice daily for now that he is allowed to freerange eat being they want some food back in him and will figure out a diet once things get figure out being that the Depo will still be messing with his system for a while his levels when I left today were 380s but they said its going to be hard to get him leveled out while the depo is in his system and that if hes acting normal and eating etc that we will talk next week...

I asked about home testing they said not necessary that they would check him when I brought him in which might be a few weeks long as he was acting normal at home... My question is as I have peeked around the forum is about getting a meter just to keep an eye on things myself.. they are not an incompetent vet they are actually a large practice with about 10 vets and specials etc I live in small town South Ga BUT its also home to people with LOTS of money and 25k dollardogs and million dollar horses and its the same vet I use. 3 diff of their small animal vets saw him while he was there in the 4 days so I guess they collaborated...

my question is what meter to get being I have seen mixed reviews on all of them especially the alphatrac2 and then most of the suggestions I have seen in the FAQ here are older posts from 2009/2013?? and what #'s to expect..

I did just give him his first injection by ME at about 10pm est about 15 mins after I got him to eat a little bit of Crave brand cat food which I read was high protein and low carbs ( any suggestions on food etc would be greatly appreciated or where to find the most up to date info on the forum..) being I know he will refuse any prescrip foods they try and talk me into once they do the insulin curve on him once I take him back...

Just a confused scared cat dad who loves his cat as if it was my own child.. the past week has mentally been murder on me to be honest.. I love my other cat also who is a mainecoon who showed up dying at my house 4 years ago that I could not let die.. I also share cat custody lol of 4 outside ferals who took up here over the years with my sisterinlaw, my brother and her live next door) but when you bottle feed one from 5 days old that his mother abandoned to die.. you build a bond with them thats hard to explain... I just want to do whats best for him and keeps him healthy and he gets to live a long time being he has the other health issues to add into this...

my other question is being my issues with insomnia the catsare use to eating on my schedule when not freerange eating when I give wet food it was usually when I wake up at noon then if they had eat a decent amount of the dry (which I monitor) I would give them another portion of wet at midnight then they have the bowls of dry to nibble on till lunch the next day.. how can I move the time period from how they started his first shot at 10am this morning thou he had been on a constant drip for 3 days so I guess his system is not set to a schedule yet??? so can I just wait till I can feed and then give shot at noon then work it to my schedule will the 2 hrs make that much difference from when they gave him his 2 injection at vet they switched him to injection off the drip last night at 10 when the tech came in to check on the animals in the hospital...


Thanks so much for any and all help

Lee and Vengeance

first pic is of him on his Bday in June when he was still 16lb the 2nd was yesterday when he was in the cage at the vets when they disconnected him so that I could take him in the room to spend time with.. hes now 10lbs 4oz
 

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Hello and welcome. Venge looks a lot like a kitty I grew up with. He's a handsome black kitty.

I'm going to start with just a couple bits of info. I am sure others will be along soon to help as well.

First of all, home testing is an excellent idea, and the best way to keep Venge safe and to help him get regulated. Many people here just buy the Relion Prime from Walmart (if in the US). The test strips are super cheap and that's what you'll go through the most. Here is a post for to read: Hometesting Links and Tips - includes numerous links, instructions, pictures, & videos. Also in our Health Links forum are some posts on meter reviews if you want to look at other options.

For low carb wet or raw food, you want something under 10% carbs. This food list is a couple years old, but has most ones on there. The food list is on the catinfo website, which also has a good page on urinary issues. Don't change Venge's diet until you are home testing though. The reduction in carbs can make a huge difference in the amount of insulin he'll need.

If he's been getting his shot at 10, you can just be a couple hours later and shoot at noon and midnight if that's what works for you. With Vetsulin you do want to make sure they've had a good meal before giving the insulin.
 
Hello Umlee & Venge, and welcome.
I spent about 40 minutes writing a post to you only to have it disappear when I went to find a link to a food chart for you.
So this will now be a bit shorter.
Wow and Gosh, you two have been through some tough times but glad you found your way here, loadz of resources and folks who will share with you experience and help..
Venge did not look overweight in his 7 year old photo - but weight is taken into account with energy level, coat condition, and any other health issues weight may impact. You and he have gone through tough experiences healthwise with kidney/urinary issues. A wet diet will help him keep flushed out, and the right food (high protien low carb) will help the diabetes too. This is the food chart I went off to find, I keep it on my phone to have at the grocery store when going through the canned foods there.
Surprisingly (and gratifyingly) one of the best foods is also readily available and budget-friendly - Fancy Feast Pate/Classic and comes in a good variety. It might be the same as Wendy linked to, I was half asleep when I started my reply to you lol!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjALegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2-56TGnJXS2_8vg73QgYF-

Regarding a BG (Blood Glucose) meter, I myself would not do without one. Unless we are aware of what sugar levels are on a regular basis, I can't see any other way to give accurate doses of insulin suitable for our cats - and to be effective and safe it must be as accurate as we can be. Cats are more comfortable at home, and stress from vet visits often affects sugar levels, so getting a blood glucose curve at home is ideal if an owner is willing to learn. It takes a bit of time to get accustomed, but my cat Cotton is already running to the bed and jumping up to do his blood tests and he was only diagnosed the first week of November!
Wendy mentions the Relion blood glucose meter, and if I were in the US I'd get one - I read good things about them and the test strips are economically priced. That means a lot if you're testing multiple times a day to get a BG curve to regulate and set insulin levels healthy for your kitteh.
Again, welcome - you have come to a good place.
 
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Welcome to FDMB Lee and extra sweet Vengeance. Boy have you been through it! Well we are gong to help you going forward. But first lets get some ground work laid. We ask every new member to set two, very important features up.
First your signature. Your signature will appear at the bottom of all your current and future posts. It will contain all of Vengeance's particulars so that anyone who comes to your aid can read for themselves everything Vengeance.
You can find how to do that here:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Reading down that same page you will see a link for setting up a spreadsheet. That spreadsheet is your most important tool in recognizing just how insulin works in Vengeance's body. It can track day by day hour by hour.. It gives everyone the information they need to help you.

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

Youve landed in a safe place. This is, the best site on this planet, to learn everything you need to know, about feline diabetes and beyond!;)

I do want to thank you for being such a good care giver to the cats in your life. We all look forward to getting to know you all.

jeanne
 
Hey all thanks so much for the warm welcome and the advice ... I picked up the Relion Premier compact ( figured premier might be better) if not tell me and I will buy anyone I need... so at lunch today I tried about 6 times and could get no blood so I gave him his 3 units per prescp from vet being he was getting very agitated with me.. so just now I figured I might try some of the tricks and etc I had read and see where he was # wise 8 hrs after eating main meal ( he does graze the kibble but I am limiting that to small amounts between his 12 hour apart meals which as of now are 1 portion size of Crave Salmon Pate which is 1.37 oz.. I have NEVER been able to get him to eat more than this amount of food maybe its the grazing over the years but when I had him on the full wet diet if I put down a whole can of FF for him he would eat about half walk away and never touch the rest then next feeding time I would have to open a new can...does he just have a low appetite naturally do I need to fully stop the grazing to see if he might eat more of the wet food only 12 hrs apart... ( I put out 1/3 of a cup of kibble between meals sometimes he eats all sometimes not its more of the worry that its the urinary tract food and me worrying about blockage)

Crave Salmon pate info
  • Crude Protein (min.) 12.00%
  • Crude Fat (min.) 5.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max.) 1.0%
  • Moisture (max.) 78.00%
  • Ash (max.) 3.50%
  • Taurine (min.)
The reason I chose this to try first was someone on amazon called the company and they told them that is was 41% protein and only 2% carbs so thought the lower the carb the better if FF is better I have plenty of that he ate that for years and I know he will eat any kind of friskies being when I feed the cans to my outside cats he goes nuts wanting it..but he generally will eat any of the FF..

Ok so on to numbers its been 8hrs or so since he had his 3unit shot at noonish was like 20 mins late trying to get blood from ear... and the first # I got was 471... then I tried again 2 mins later and it was 460.. now my meter didnt come with the test solution so... again if I should go buy at diff meter let me know and I will buy whatever I need.

and ugh I tested myself and it was 121... thou I have not eaten anything since last night just some sweet tea a few times today... I have severe migraines and spent most of the afternoon nursing one of those so never felt like eating.

Back to Venge those numbers sound VERY high on a human meter or am I wrong?

Thanks so much
 
Congrats on getting that first test! :) Those numbers are high, but not unusual for a newly diagnosed kitty. Also, since you are giving Vetsulin which can be shorter acting in some cats, a +8 test might only tell you that the insulin has worn off. A test in the +4 to +6 region might be more interesting.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Congrats on getting that first test! :) Those numbers are high, but not unusual for a newly diagnosed kitty. Also, since you are giving Vetsulin which can be shorter acting in some cats, a +8 test might only tell you that the insulin has worn off. A test in the +4 to +6 region might be more interesting.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the quick reply .. yeah also the vet said with the steroid shot in his system which is what shot him into overdrive the day after it and how we found he was diabetic that he would be all over the place which is why they were not recommending me to test him myself and that they might put off the Insulin curve they do for a month till more of the Steroid is out of his system...so I wont freak out unless it get super low and I will test him again tonight before I feed him again.. thanks so much :)
 
I'm glad you are testing and ignoring what the vet said. You want to catch those low numbers that might happen when the steroid wears off. A change in diet can also make a difference in insulin requirements, and quite quickly.
 
In Canada we have a meter that measures BG differently for humans - you youself would have tested at 6.7 on my meter - within normal range.We take the number you have on your meter (131) and divide by 18 to convert it to our meter and get 6.7, which is fine for a human.

471 ÷ 18 = is a 26 - not blow-your-mind outrageous, but not where you want it, but they all start somewhere.

When I began with Cotton (only a little over 3 weeks ago!) he was getting 26s - 30s. He really wasn't having the tough time Venge has though, and not showing symptoms badly yet - some weight loss, drinking a lot, a bit lethargic, but he is an easy-going cat. His BG on Caninsulin had a significant drop and low point during the day, which led me personally to want to switch to Lantus because Lantus acts longer and doesn't have the dips for Cotton that the Caninsulin is known for. Lantus has the 'depot', a reserve that stays in the body and does a slow release over a longer period after the shot, helping to avoid low lows and high highs - for me, easier to understand innorder to regulate.

My thinking was that in order to have Cotton have highs in a renally safe area of no higher than of 14-16 (renal is kidney for anyone reading), I would have to raise his Caninsulin dose a fair bit - but then I would risk him bottoming out when that low dip came 3-5 hours in.

On the Caninsulin site it states 'The renal threshold is around 14 mmol/L (252 mg/dL) in cats. If the blood glucose concentration exceeds this threshold, glucose is excreted in the urine'.
http://www.caninsulin.ca/laboratory-tests-cats.asp

This is why I wanted to keep his daily BG high points below that, and it was not do-able in Cotton's case with his reaction. I could not feel safe he would not have a hypotic episide when he hit the low.

But remember**ECID - Every Cat Is Different. This was my and Cotton's experience and things may work differently for you and your cat. But knowing what other people experience in their journey I found helped me know what I might expect, and what would likely work best for my cat's situation.

You too will find what works best for Venge and your understanding will grow as you get more testing in, and when others here can see a better history of his BG numbers with what doseages he is on, they will be better able to advise you.
 
Thanks everyone so I just took his morning/lunch one and its 501 .. I know start the spreadsheet.. I tried to test last night could not get a drop of blood out of him and after about 5 times he gets aggravated and trying not to stress him out and make him run from me when I have to do it.. should I move his dose up to a hair over the 3 units and after he eats (which oddly as I was sayin last night he never eats a full can he ate a whole can of FF at his nightly feeding.. he did only eat half of his kibble 1/3rd cup I put in bowl for over night) in a few hrs try and check his BG again and see if it comes down.. hes acting Normal walking around meowing etc right now waiting at food bowl lol

Thanks


Edit hour or so later I ended up giving him a hair over the 3 unit line and just got back from store with larger lancets 30g the ones in the kit were 25g hopefully makes getting blood easier(I have been rubbing the ear and tried using a heating pad compress thing today his veins are barely visible in his ears even with a light shinning to see )
 
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Hi Lee,

Ummlee said:
just got back from store with larger lancets 30g the ones in the kit were 25g
Click to expand...
FYI, counterintuitively the lancets with the lower gauge are larger. No harm to try the new ones to see if that works better but if you're still struggling then I suggest going back to the 25-gauge ones.

Try warming the ear for longer.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Lee,


FYI, counterintuitively the lancets with the lower gauge are larger. No harm to try the new ones to see if that works better but if you're still struggling then I suggest going back to the 25-gauge ones.

Try warming the ear for longer.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...


I didnt even think think about that being I use to Pierce LOL I was thinking they used some other system for the lancets UGHHH and these things were higher cost they were out of the cheap ones so I had to buy the expensive ones.. oh well...
 
So I decided to do a test and did his BG at 9 which was 8 hrs after his lunchtime meal at 1 and it was 417 I did at lunch give him a extra tiny bit of instead od 3 units I did about 3.10 should I try giving him a little more at his 1am to see if goes down.. my question with this is what do I tell the vet when I go in and she asks have you been him the 3 unit dosage and they get a better reading than expected maybe because I have upped his dose myself??? or do I stick with the 3 units for now to see if it drops more with more of the steroid coming out of his system.. my worry from reading is the keytone issue and issues with his kidneys maybe from the levels this high?

Thanks

yeah I know spreadsheet lol
 
OK so I decided to do a BG test tonight at 4 hrs after (5am est) his dose and I barely got anything on left ear which I had used a wet warm washcloth to heat up being I misplaced the heating bag thing and got a 67 which I thought might have had some water mixed in being hes never been that low so I moved to the right ear got it warm with my fingers and hit the vein good had a good bit come out then the next 2 readings were 59 and last was 57... none of his numbers have been this low he ate almost a whole can of FF chicken pate at 1am est (I moved things over the last few days to work better for my crazy sleep issues..) hes acting normal seemed a bit thirsty about hour and half ago... I did add a little to his normal 3 unit I pulled the plunger down like an extra mm or 2 which now looking with my glasses might end up being a .25 of a unit .. could he just be having a low due to the extra? being I have never seen a number like this.. trying not to freak out dont want him going hypo all of a sudden... when his numbers have all been high... I have not had any kibble out tonight was going to wait till I went to bed to do that at about 6 am then he had the nibbles while I was sleeping. His BG at 12:45 was 384 which was the lowest it has been. I will test again in hour or so just to see where he is.. hopefully it goes back up not any further down but I do have karo syrup etc just encase.. ughhhh

also I did my spreadsheet

Thanks
 
Ummlee said:
OK so I decided to do a BG test tonight at 4 hrs after (5am est) his dose and I barely got anything on left ear which I had used a wet warm washcloth to heat up being I misplaced the heating bag thing and got a 67 which I thought might have had some water mixed in being hes never been that low so I moved to the right ear got it warm with my fingers and hit the vein good had a good bit come out then the next 2 readings were 59 and last was 57... none of his numbers have been this low he ate almost a whole can of FF chicken pate at 1am est (I moved things over the last few days to work better for my crazy sleep issues..) hes acting normal seemed a bit thirsty about hour and half ago... I did add a little to his normal 3 unit I pulled the plunger down like an extra mm or 2 which now looking with my glasses might end up being a .25 of a unit .. could he just be having a low due to the extra? being I have never seen a number like this.. trying not to freak out dont want him going hypo all of a sudden... when his numbers have all been high... I have not had any kibble out tonight was going to wait till I went to bed to do that at about 6 am then he had the nibbles while I was sleeping. His BG at 12:45 was 384 which was the lowest it has been. I will test again in hour or so just to see where he is.. hopefully it goes back up not any further down but I do have karo syrup etc just encase.. ughhhh

also I did my spreadsheet

Thanks
Click to expand...
hi! I'm here! Ok so you got that 57 at 4 hours .... It's not a dangerous number yet but do feed him some food because he may still drop more.


It's hard to say if that tiny extra is what made him drop or if he's been dropping before and bouncing up since you just started testing and there's not a lot of data. Id say he earned a reduction to 2.75 though.
 
Ummlee said:
OK so I decided to do a BG test tonight at 4 hrs after (5am est) his dose and I barely got anything on left ear which I had used a wet warm washcloth to heat up being I misplaced the heating bag thing and got a 67 which I thought might have had some water mixed in being hes never been that low so I moved to the right ear got it warm with my fingers and hit the vein good had a good bit come out then the next 2 readings were 59 and last was 57... none of his numbers have been this low he ate almost a whole can of FF chicken pate at 1am est (I moved things over the last few days to work better for my crazy sleep issues..) hes acting normal seemed a bit thirsty about hour and half ago... I did add a little to his normal 3 unit I pulled the plunger down like an extra mm or 2 which now looking with my glasses might end up being a .25 of a unit .. could he just be having a low due to the extra? being I have never seen a number like this.. trying not to freak out dont want him going hypo all of a sudden... when his numbers have all been high... I have not had any kibble out tonight was going to wait till I went to bed to do that at about 6 am then he had the nibbles while I was sleeping. His BG at 12:45 was 384 which was the lowest it has been. I will test again in hour or so just to see where he is.. hopefully it goes back up not any further down but I do have karo syrup etc just encase.. ughhhh

also I did my spreadsheet

Thanks
Click to expand...
You could put the warm washcloth in a zipping bag so the ear gets warm but not wet.
 
JanetNJ said:
hi! I'm here! Ok so you got that 57 at 4 hours .... It's not a dangerous number yet but do feed him some food because he may still drop more.


It's hard to say if that tiny extra is what made him drop or if he's been dropping before and bouncing up since you just started testing and there's not a lot of data. Id say he earned a reduction to 2.75 though.
Click to expand...


I just retested him its been hour and half and it was 55 just to be safe I let him lick a little karo syrup off my finger just to be safe rather it come up from that than drop down any further while I sleep which I prob wont now will check him again in hour or so...thanks for checking in :)
 
Ummlee said:
I just retested him its been hour and half and it was 55 just to be safe I let him lick a little karo syrup off my finger just to be safe rather it come up from that than drop down any further while I sleep which I prob wont now will check him again in hour or so...thanks for checking in :)
Click to expand...
How are things now? Did you get another reading?
 
JanetNJ said:
How are things now? Did you get another reading?
Click to expand...
Just retested and its 71 so think he's ok I had given him a little bit of Karo syrup when it was at 55 and then gave him some food ..I will lower his lunch dose to little under 3 being I jumped the gun and gave him like 3.25 two doses..he never acted other than normal but just scared me being I had not seen any numbers like that...hes pissed I have poked his poor ears so much today...now to get a couple hrs sleep before his lunch and 1pm injection..thanks JanetNJ for checking in we appreciate it :)
 
So just took 2 tests one I half ass scooped some blood in being the left ear didnt want to give any and it was a 506 so then I swapped to his right ear got a good drop out and got a 433 so lvls are back up to normal I think I will still give a tad under a full 3 and see what his lvls are in 5-6 hrs see if they drop that low again..
 
OK so just did a +5 hr and hes at 160 I gave him just a tad under 3 units like hair under.. so seems to be back to normal being I have only done 1 few inbetween tests .. I am wondering and I have read and etc that the steroid makes all this much harder than usual. I am now wondering if the steroid shots when he had his blockages caused him to get diabetes I had been reading on steroid induced this years hes gotten 3 first in Feb then one in Aug and now one in Nov.. maybe once this one wears off ( thou I will have to figure out the asthma thing which is new also) the diabetes will go into remission or it was hopefully fully caused by the steroids over the past year...
 
Ummlee said:
OK so just did a +5 hr and hes at 160 I gave him just a tad under 3 units like hair under.. so seems to be back to normal being I have only done 1 few inbetween tests .. I am wondering and I have read and etc that the steroid makes all this much harder than usual. I am now wondering if the steroid shots when he had his blockages caused him to get diabetes I had been reading on steroid induced this years hes gotten 3 first in Feb then one in Aug and now one in Nov.. maybe once this one wears off ( thou I will have to figure out the asthma thing which is new also) the diabetes will go into remission or it was hopefully fully caused by the steroids over the past year...
Click to expand...
We've definitely had cats here with diabetes caused by steroids.
 
Hi Lee,

Love the avatar pic of Venge. :cat:

Ummlee said:
thou I will have to figure out the asthma thing which is new also
Click to expand...
We've had kitties with asthma here in the past (not sure if any are active at the moment). I'd suggest posting a thread to ask if any members with experience of treating an asthmatic feline diabetic could give you some pointers on treatment options and managing the two conditions concurrently.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Lee,

Love the avatar pic of Venge. :cat:


We've had kitties with asthma here in the past (not sure if any are active at the moment). I'd suggest posting a thread to ask if any members with experience of treating an asthmatic feline diabetic could give you some pointers on treatment options and managing the two conditions concurrently.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...


Thanks will make a post about the asthma .. just checked him back up to 531 will give his 3 units as prescribed by the vet then will check again in 2-3 hrs see how it drops, thanks Mogs you have a cute kitty as well.. I have to keep telling Venge that the Dryer is NOT a Tardis and hes not Dr.Who (some nerds will get it lol) but seriously its a fight to keep him out of the dryer lol
 
Critter Mom said:
Ah! Whovians now walk among us!! :D

How's about a bit of Pertwee era vintage titles...




It used to scare the bejeebers out of me as a kid, and it still does: weeping angels!!!


Mogs
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Met John many many moons ago in about 93 at a con I have met Both Bakers,Mccoy,McGann.. Im an all around sci-fi Fantasy etc nerd guy I was involved in Cons for 20 years from age 20 to 40 in some way or the other I owned one for a few years.. I have been away from cons for 10 years now.. I am partial to Tom Baker (ya cant beat the scarf lol) being he was the first one I came into contact with on PBS when I was a kid after school in the early 80s and then I am a Tennant and Smith fan and the decision on which I like best is hard to decide of those 2.. yeah I would take 20 Daleks and a few Cybermen over 1 weeping angel any day... lol
 
Question i didn't leave him out any kibble trying to lower it and just did a reading at 7 which is 6 hrs out and got 61 on left ear .I then checked the right got 71...should I get another meter I have gotten 3 diff readings off same blood before with it also..usually if I get a good drop I test multiple times..

Thanks
 
Ummlee said:
Question i didn't leave him out any kibble trying to lower it and just did a reading at 7 which is 6 hrs out and got 61 on left ear .I then checked the right got 71...should I get another meter I have gotten 3 diff readings off same blood before with it also..usually if I get a good drop I test multiple times..

Thanks
Click to expand...
There's a meter variance of about 20%. You could take 5 readings of the same drop and get slightly different numbers each time. There's really no difference between a 61 and a 71.
 
JanetNJ said:
There's a meter variance of about 20%. You could take 5 readings of the same drop and get slightly different numbers each time. There's really no difference between a 61 and a 71.
Click to expand...
Ahh so question should I continue to leave him out a small amount of food between main meals so there is not that large a drop between main meals? I don't want him to go hypo..
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Lee,

Love the avatar pic of Venge. :cat:


We've had kitties with asthma here in the past (not sure if any are active at the moment). I'd suggest posting a thread to ask if any members with experience of treating an asthmatic feline diabetic could give you some pointers on treatment options and managing the two conditions concurrently.


Mogs
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Click to expand...
Little Bit has asthma. We treat him with a Flovent (Flixotide) inhaler. :)
 
Ummlee said:
Thanks will make a post about the asthma .. just checked him back up to 531 will give his 3 units as prescribed by the vet then will check again in 2-3 hrs see how it drops, thanks Mogs you have a cute kitty as well.. I have to keep telling Venge that the Dryer is NOT a Tardis and hes not Dr.Who (some nerds will get it lol) but seriously its a fight to keep him out of the dryer lol
Click to expand...
Little Bit most likely has steroid-induced diabetes after treating his asthma with prednisolone for a few years. We now use Flovent 250 mcg twice daily in an Aerokat. I am sure you know, but no candles, incense, etc. should be used in the house. My vet has also advised me against ever opening windows in the house. I am happy to answer any questions you may have about treating the two conditions simultaneously.
 
Little Bit’s Mom said:
Little Bit most likely has steroid-induced diabetes after treating his asthma with prednisolone for a few years. We now use Flovent 250 mcg twice daily in an Aerokat. I am sure you know, but no candles, incense, etc. should be used in the house. My vet has also advised me against ever opening windows in the house. I am happy to answer any questions you may have about treating the two conditions simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Thanks the issue is his asthma wasn't diagnosed until 3 days before the diabetes he would have a cough now and then but it had gotten where he would have 2 hacking sessions everyday.. I had hoped it was him and hairballs being he over grooms his belly since the urinary issues. The vet said it was Mild Asthma I also think it was made worse by the litter which I just started using a few months ago which was the A&H Slide which is like sand powder and heavy perfumed before I switched to that he might hack once every month or . When he stayed at animal hospital for 4 days for his first urinary blockage(at that time they did a mri of his abdomen saw nothing) they didnt say anything or any other time in the last 7 years anything about asthma and in Aug when he had his 2nd urinary issue ( I am always at home I'm am a freelance graphic designer so I am around him 24/7 pretty much and hes always near me except when Im asleep) I had them Xray and mri ALL OF HIM to make sure he had no tumors or anything that was hiding and they saw nothing so the asthma snuck up quickly like the diabetes.. I guess once the steroid in his system DepoMedrol ( which I have read is NOT good stuff) I will have them double check on the asthma I have switched to unscented Tidy cat ( If you know of a better litter for cats with Asthma please let me know) he has not coughed a single time since the steroid shot which I changed litters at the same time.. years ago I switched litters on him and he had a bad reaction coughing then I switched litters back to the other and it stopped ( and they stopped making the one that I used for most of his life few years ago) thanks for any info and help
 
Good on you for switching the litter! You never want anything scented. I use Dr. Elsey’s unscented and it works well. That brand also makes a litter specifically for respiratory issues, as well. I haven’t used it, but I’m sure it is great. Did he not have any inflammation in his airways? That’s typically how asthma is diagnosed with an X-ray.

It is difficult to decipher between hairball hacking and a cough unless you have seen it firsthand. Coughing will be neck completely stretched, low to the ground and unproductive.

The steroid shot will mask his asthma symptoms until it wears off. And you’re correct, it is not healthy to have the steroid shots—my vet always used them only in emergencies. Now that LB is diabetic, we cannot use them as they will raise his BG.

http://www.felineasthma.org/ Is wonderful! They also have a message board forum with amazing people just like this one. They will show you how to order inhalers from Canada (much more inexpensive). There is even a member who keeps extras on hand and will spot you. She did that for me when the pandemic began for us back in March.

Watch for the coughing, wheezing and labored breathing. Don’t let your vet talk you into treating him with steroids (hopefully they wouldn’t do that with a diabetes diagnosis, but you never know!). You’ll have to obtain a prescription for Flovent and from there, you can have it filled with a Canadian pharmacy.

I hope that helps! Happy to answer more questions if you have any.
 
JanetNJ said:
Yes. Most of us feed several meals throughout the day.
Click to expand...
I have been letting him free graze on the purina dry pro plan urniary food mixed with a weight control kibble as thats what he has been eating mostly since the urinary issues with wet food 2/3 times a day until they told me he needed to loose weight back in Aug so I had cut back the can food to twice a day and less of the kibble not just full bowls but with 2 cats its hard to know who eats how much and when ( he will usually only eat half a can of FF or 1 of the portion cups of Little sheba) I was thinking if I cut back on the dry ( I started only putting out 1/3rd cup between 12 hr feedings now until last night when I thought I would see how he would do without it) so I guess I will leave him out the dry kibble but maybe go to 1/4 cup between meals for him to nibble on and only put it out a few hrs after his main meals and see how that does..his #s just are all over the place and none seem to be in the Normal range 80-120?? thou I have not done a cycle yet.. and as I had read that the steroid in his system right now is so fresh less than 2 weeks so its messing with his whole system...
 
Little Bit’s Mom said:
Good on you for switching the litter! You never want anything scented. I use Dr. Elsey’s unscented and it works well. That brand also makes a litter specifically for respiratory issues, as well. I haven’t used it, but I’m sure it is great. Did he not have any inflammation in his airways? That’s typically how asthma is diagnosed with an X-ray.

It is difficult to decipher between hairball hacking and a cough unless you have seen it firsthand. Coughing will be neck completely stretched, low to the ground and unproductive.

The steroid shot will mask his asthma symptoms until it wears off. And you’re correct, it is not healthy to have the steroid shots—my vet always used them only in emergencies. Now that LB is diabetic, we cannot use them as they will raise his BG.

http://www.felineasthma.org/ Is wonderful! They also have a message board forum with amazing people just like this one. They will show you how to order inhalers from Canada (much more inexpensive). There is even a member who keeps extras on hand and will spot you. She did that for me when the pandemic began for us back in March.

Watch for the coughing, wheezing and labored breathing. Don’t let your vet talk you into treating him with steroids (hopefully they wouldn’t do that with a diabetes diagnosis, but you never know!). You’ll have to obtain a prescription for Flovent and from there, you can have it filled with a Canadian pharmacy.

I hope that helps! Happy to answer more questions if you have any.
Click to expand...


I have used the Dr Elsys years ago but I started to feel bad for my mail lady as she was tiny and felt bad her having to lug 2 40lb bags at a time to my door so I went back to A&H clumping.. The vet said he had some inflammation she didnt get very specific on it just that he had mild asthma and that giving him a steroid would help with the inflammation hopefully they took 2 xrays of his chest so I guess she saw something... I had shown her videos of him coughing as when he started doing it more often I would video it.. he did the neck stretch at times but not always which I had googled and watched vids and he would do it layin on my bed at times and not really do the whole stretch which was odd... as of now my plans for the asthma are to make sure he has it once the steroid is out of his system I will have her xray or mri him again and check and make sure she saw what she saw??? hoping maybe the inflammation might have been a reaction to the litter or something if I am lucky... but I will check out the feline asthma board as well.. and I appreciate all the info..
 
Hi Lee,

Ummlee said:
he does over groom his belly since the first blockage
Click to expand...
By way of general observation, my Saoirse was put on a urinary protection diet (Royal Canin Urinary s/o dry) and she overgroomed her belly on it. When I switched her to a low carb, species appropriate diet all her fur grew back straight away. She also gained weight on it and spent years eating starvation rations but still couldn't get the excess weight off.

I was really upset because the vets who prescribed it had been putting the overgroomed tum down to stress/boredom for years.

FYI, the number of cats who arrive here having been fed the RC Urinary s/o dry diet is noticeable.

Also, Saoirse was once diagnosed with asthma. We were living near a quarry at the time. We moved a long way away not long after the Dx, and Saoirse never had an issue after that so the dust must have been the trigger. I hope that a change of litter might help Venge similarly. (((Venge)))


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Lee,


By way of general observation, my Saoirse was put on a urinary protection diet (Royal Canin Urinary s/o dry) and she overgroomed her belly on it. When I switched her to a low carb, species appropriate diet all her fur grew back straight away. She also gained weight on it and spent years eating starvation rations but still couldn't get the excess weight off.

I was really upset because the vets who prescribed it had been putting the overgroomed tum down to stress/boredom for years.

FYI, the number of cats who arrive here having been fed the RC Urinary s/o dry diet is noticeable.

Also, Saoirse was once diagnosed with asthma. We were living near a quarry at the time. We moved a long way away not long after the Dx, and Saoirse never had an issue after that so the dust must have been the trigger. I hope that a change of litter might help Venge similarly. (((Venge)))


Mogs
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Click to expand...

they had me buy him the Science Diet food in Feb dry and wet and he flat out refused to eat it I bought 120 bucks worth of food I ended up feeding it to Nightwing my Maincoon who didnt need it but I had bought it vets dont take returns lol so then I read to switch him to a all wet diet which I did but he still got a small amount of Wysong dry urinary which he would nibble on I also had him on a herbal supplement that I had read lots of really goodthings about Tinkle Tonic... then in Aug he had the blockage again.. so I swapped him to the purina pro plan (which he likes a lot) after reading good things on that and he gets wet and I also month and half ago switched the cats water to purified bottled water even thou I was using my 3 stage filtration system (I drink from) being the water here is HORRIBLE... but its so hard I had to throw away 2 fountains being even with the water coming thru the 3 stage filter didnt remove the calcium/lime that the fountains were covered in white scale like all my bathroom etc fixtures are I have to clean off weekly so thinking too many minerals in water might be a cause of the crystals and I had done some research into it.. hopefully some things can get resolved with changes in diet etc.. Venge didnt over groom till the urinary issues.. but vet put him on crazy cat pills (which he got about 2 weeks worth being it was impossible to give to him the pills they are the size of a pencil end to begin with and they wanted me to give him half a pill and I tried every trick sticking in treats crushed in food he knew it was in there would refuse to eat or take the treats so that ended that and I saw no difference) being he was still doing it between the blockages and after the last one due to stress ( Nightwing can be aggressive.). but for right now they are in diff parts of the house till venge is all sorted out which if it takes months they get to speak thru the jail bars... Im praying it was the litter sooo much being he has enough issues with dealing with urinary and now diabetes.. ughh but time will tell once the steroid wears off..
 
Ummlee said:
I have been letting him free graze on the purina dry pro plan urniary food mixed with a weight control kibble as thats what he has been eating mostly since the urinary issues with wet food 2/3 times a day until they told me he needed to loose weight back in Aug so I had cut back the can food to twice a day and less of the kibble not just full bowls but with 2 cats its hard to know who eats how much and when ( he will usually only eat half a can of FF or 1 of the portion cups of Little sheba) I was thinking if I cut back on the dry ( I started only putting out 1/3rd cup between 12 hr feedings now until last night when I thought I would see how he would do without it) so I guess I will leave him out the dry kibble but maybe go to 1/4 cup between meals for him to nibble on and only put it out a few hrs after his main meals and see how that does..his #s just are all over the place and none seem to be in the Normal range 80-120?? thou I have not done a cycle yet.. and as I had read that the steroid in his system right now is so fresh less than 2 weeks so its messing with his whole system...
Click to expand...
looking at the spreadsheet.
Your cat had earned a reduction. Is suggest taking that dose down. 2.75

I'm pretty sure if you stopped feeding the high carb kibble he would only need 1-2 units.
 
Ummlee said:
they had me buy him the Science Diet food in Feb dry and wet and he flat out refused to eat it I bought 120 bucks worth of food I ended up feeding it to Nightwing my Maincoon who didnt need it but I had bought it vets dont take returns lol so then I read to switch him to a all wet diet which I did but he still got a small amount of Wysong dry urinary which he would nibble on I also had him on a herbal supplement that I had read lots of really goodthings about Tinkle Tonic... then in Aug he had the blockage again.. so I swapped him to the purina pro plan (which he likes a lot) after reading good things on that and he gets wet and I also month and half ago switched the cats water to purified bottled water even thou I was using my 3 stage filtration system (I drink from) being the water here is HORRIBLE... but its so hard I had to throw away 2 fountains being even with the water coming thru the 3 stage filter didnt remove the calcium/lime that the fountains were covered in white scale like all my bathroom etc fixtures are I have to clean off weekly so thinking too many minerals in water might be a cause of the crystals and I had done some research into it.. hopefully some things can get resolved with changes in diet etc.. Venge didnt over groom till the urinary issues.. but vet put him on crazy cat pills (which he got about 2 weeks worth being it was impossible to give to him the pills they are the size of a pencil end to begin with and they wanted me to give him half a pill and I tried every trick sticking in treats crushed in food he knew it was in there would refuse to eat or take the treats so that ended that and I saw no difference) being he was still doing it between the blockages and after the last one due to stress ( Nightwing can be aggressive.). but for right now they are in diff parts of the house till venge is all sorted out which if it takes months they get to speak thru the jail bars... Im praying it was the litter sooo much being he has enough issues with dealing with urinary and now diabetes.. ughh but time will tell once the steroid wears off..
Click to expand...
Yikes that is some crazy hard water. I think I'd just get those jugs delivered that offices get!
 
JanetNJ said:
looking at the spreadsheet.
Your cat had earned a reduction. Is suggest taking that dose down. 2.75

I'm pretty sure if you stopped feeding the high carb kibble he would only need 1-2 units.
Click to expand...
yeah I am going to drop it down a hair in a min.. running late today but he ate almost 3/4 of a can of the FF chicken.. and I just contacted Purina being there was no Carb info anywhere and the protein was good and phosphorus content.. but the carbs I know why NOT on the bag... 38.5 WOW so yeah will have to figure out something else.. yeah he is getting pretty good drops at about 3-5 hrs after his nightly meal which bothers me. being I test more at night.. going to try and get some day numbers today... I was reading some other peoples posts where they said most vets start at 1-2 u with a new cat.. his # was 600+ when went in and was DX and he has the steroids in system so wondering if thats why she started with such a huge dose.. and that he had to be on the IV drip for the 4 days and severe dehydration.. I am noticing he pees about 2-3 times a day which seems actually less than he use too so maybe thats good.. thanks so much
 
Last edited:
Ummlee said:
they had me buy him the Science Diet food in Feb dry and wet and he flat out refused to eat it I bought 120 bucks worth of food I ended up feeding it to Nightwing my Maincoon who didnt need it but I had bought it vets dont take returns
Click to expand...
For future reference, Hill's offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee if you're not happy with a product, even if it has been opened, e.g:

https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/pd-md-feline-dry

From the above:

upload_2020-12-1_18-42-47.png



Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
For future reference, Hill's offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee if you're not happy with a product, even if it has been opened, e.g:

https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/pd-md-feline-dry

From the above:

View attachment 58348


Mogs
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well wish my vet had told me that back then lol but I have not bought any more Hills and dont plan on it unless the vet forces it then I will just bring it back.. I am going to keep him on the FF and see what else people recommend for high protein can foods.. I have been looking at the list I have given him some of the Crave brand but after reading that Dr Lisa had issues with petsmart not wanting to give the carb info even thou its high Protein I doubt I will get anymore.. I did buy tiki but he just is not a fan of the REAL chicken .. he is a pate kinda cat.. sometimes the chunky.. I am going to make a post on some info I found today in the open section..I have been doing some research on dry foods I KNOW BAD but some cats still want some kibble..
 
Ummlee said:
I have been doing some research on dry foods I KNOW BAD but some cats still want some kibble..
Click to expand...
The three I've seen mentioned here that are low carb are:

* Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (chicken variety is definitely LC, not sure about the other variety).

* Wysong Epigen 90.

* Young Again (can cause GI upsets in some cats - ask them for a free sample first if you want to try it).


Mogs
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