Introducing Smash, off to a rocky start

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TaylorAndSmash

Member Since 2020
My name is Taylor, and my cat is named Smash, and he is 12 years old. He was diagnosed 8/18/2020, after Smash got so ill one night he wouldn't eat, so I rushed him to emergency. The emergency vet noticed his blood sugar was in the 300's, and asked me to see my regular vet. My regular vet was so positive that a diet change would help, that I didn't even consider the possibility of us having to inject him with insulin.

So 60 days after a diet change of Purina OM, his blood sugar was in the high 400's, even though he did lose some weight. I've been wondering if the vet just thought my cat was so fat (16 pounds at the time, now 14) that being less fat would heal him. I was completely taken off guard, and now I feel like I could have used those 60 days to feed him a lower carb diet and test him myself at home.

So we started with 1 unit of Lantus after he had an all day glucose test at the vet, a test where they told me "he wouldn't eat" (this cat never misses a meal so much that he only ended up in emergency that night because he didn't), so they let my diabetic cat have 8 hours of insulin testing without food in his stomach for 24 hours. I honestly don't even think they fed him the wet food, because it wasn't that precious Purina OM they prescribed me.

His levels stayed pretty high in the beginning, and when I called my vet to discuss my test results, they directed me to switch to 2 units. They originally wanted me to go to 1.5, but since the Lantus pen does not do half units, they bumped it up to 2. A short bit after the bump to 2, he had a low sugar episode.

I just feel like my veterinarian has hurt me every step of this process. I missed out on 60 days of testing because my vet had just the highest confidence that the Purina OM would fix him. They wouldn't talk to me about testing, and when I have called with scary numbers, they are either closed (only open 4 days a week), or I talk to the person who answers phones that puts me on hold to ask the vet questions to get back to me (I have literally not even spoken to the vet since diagnosis), or they doubled his dose because they wouldn't entertain the idea of me getting syringes with half unit markings. They originally tried to get me to try vetsulin, and I am so thankful I at least read a few posts on these forums before I had to pressure them to prescribe Lantus. Why do I even have a vet, when they wanted me to blindly give this cat 2 units a day, and my testing was what saved his life? Even the day that I demanded to be shown how to give him insulin, they just brought me in for two minutes so she could show me the skin tent for the cat and that was it, and I called out of work to do it. I've just been really frustrated with his care, and I am thankful that I quit taking the vet for their word, because they almost killed my cat.
 
O M G...SIGH Sadly you are NOT alone We hear this same story at least 2 times a week. sigh BUT FEAR NOT!

WELCOME TO FDMB The best site on this planet to learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes! Youre right they did steal those 60 days from you but we WILL get them back!
I'm personally glad you got them to prescribe Lantus. Some cats do fine on Vetsulin some not so much Lantus is a GOOD insulin for cats!
Youve landed in a safe place for Smash

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY :bighug:

I see you have your signature and spreadsheet all set up BRAVO!

i also see you have something going on from the 18th till now. I cannot give dosing advice but I think I can muster up someone who can!
@Critter Mom
@Diane Tyler's Mom
@tiffmaxee

Hopefully one of these wonderful ladies can help get you sorted.
Again welcome We look forward to getting to know you and your cutie pie Smash
jeanne
 
My name is Taylor, and my cat is named Smash, and he is 12 years old. He was diagnosed 8/18/2020, after Smash got so ill one night he wouldn't eat, so I rushed him to emergency. The emergency vet noticed his blood sugar was in the 300's, and asked me to see my regular vet. My regular vet was so positive that a diet change would help, that I didn't even consider the possibility of us having to inject him with insulin.

So 60 days after a diet change of Purina OM, his blood sugar was in the high 400's, even though he did lose some weight. I've been wondering if the vet just thought my cat was so fat (16 pounds at the time, now 14) that being less fat would heal him. I was completely taken off guard, and now I feel like I could have used those 60 days to feed him a lower carb diet and test him myself at home.

So we started with 1 unit of Lantus after he had an all day glucose test at the vet, a test where they told me "he wouldn't eat" (this cat never misses a meal so much that he only ended up in emergency that night because he didn't), so they let my diabetic cat have 8 hours of insulin testing without food in his stomach for 24 hours. I honestly don't even think they fed him the wet food, because it wasn't that precious Purina OM they prescribed me.

His levels stayed pretty high in the beginning, and when I called my vet to discuss my test results, they directed me to switch to 2 units. They originally wanted me to go to 1.5, but since the Lantus pen does not do half units, they bumped it up to 2. A short bit after the bump to 2, he had a low sugar episode.

I just feel like my veterinarian has hurt me every step of this process. I missed out on 60 days of testing because my vet had just the highest confidence that the Purina OM would fix him. They wouldn't talk to me about testing, and when I have called with scary numbers, they are either closed (only open 4 days a week), or I talk to the person who answers phones that puts me on hold to ask the vet questions to get back to me (I have literally not even spoken to the vet since diagnosis), or they doubled his dose because they wouldn't entertain the idea of me getting syringes with half unit markings. They originally tried to get me to try vetsulin, and I am so thankful I at least read a few posts on these forums before I had to pressure them to prescribe Lantus. Why do I even have a vet, when they wanted me to blindly give this cat 2 units a day, and my testing was what saved his life? Even the day that I demanded to be shown how to give him insulin, they just brought me in for two minutes so she could show me the skin tent for the cat and that was it, and I called out of work to do it. I've just been really frustrated with his care, and I am thankful that I quit taking the vet for their word, because they almost killed my cat.
Hi Taylor , like @jt and trouble (GA) Jeanne you couldn't have landed in any
better place.
One question I am really confused about your Spreadsheet when it comes to what you are noting in both the AMPS and PMPS cells.
It should be the test in the morning the AMPS, then 12 hours later you test
and put that one test in the PMPS cell.
What are your shooting times?
Also try to stick with one meter , I see you noted on your SS you ran out of the Alpha Trak strips so you tested with the Relion.
Is there any reason you will only use the Pet meter.
Most of us use the Relion meters .
Also I noted you said Smash ( love his name)
eats Temptation treats, I think they ate very high in carbs

I can't give dosing advice but I will tag some members that might be able to
give you some advice.
@Deb & Wink

@Chris & China (GA)

@Wendy&Neko

Thanks ladies, I am really confused about her spreadsheet
 
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My name is Taylor, and my cat is named Smash, and he is 12 years old. He was diagnosed 8/18/2020, after Smash got so ill one night he wouldn't eat, so I rushed him to emergency. The emergency vet noticed his blood sugar was in the 300's, and asked me to see my regular vet. My regular vet was so positive that a diet change would help, that I didn't even consider the possibility of us having to inject him with insulin.

So 60 days after a diet change of Purina OM, his blood sugar was in the high 400's, even though he did lose some weight. I've been wondering if the vet just thought my cat was so fat (16 pounds at the time, now 14) that being less fat would heal him. I was completely taken off guard, and now I feel like I could have used those 60 days to feed him a lower carb diet and test him myself at home.

So we started with 1 unit of Lantus after he had an all day glucose test at the vet, a test where they told me "he wouldn't eat" (this cat never misses a meal so much that he only ended up in emergency that night because he didn't), so they let my diabetic cat have 8 hours of insulin testing without food in his stomach for 24 hours. I honestly don't even think they fed him the wet food, because it wasn't that precious Purina OM they prescribed me.

His levels stayed pretty high in the beginning, and when I called my vet to discuss my test results, they directed me to switch to 2 units. They originally wanted me to go to 1.5, but since the Lantus pen does not do half units, they bumped it up to 2. A short bit after the bump to 2, he had a low sugar episode.

I just feel like my veterinarian has hurt me every step of this process. I missed out on 60 days of testing because my vet had just the highest confidence that the Purina OM would fix him. They wouldn't talk to me about testing, and when I have called with scary numbers, they are either closed (only open 4 days a week), or I talk to the person who answers phones that puts me on hold to ask the vet questions to get back to me (I have literally not even spoken to the vet since diagnosis), or they doubled his dose because they wouldn't entertain the idea of me getting syringes with half unit markings. They originally tried to get me to try vetsulin, and I am so thankful I at least read a few posts on these forums before I had to pressure them to prescribe Lantus. Why do I even have a vet, when they wanted me to blindly give this cat 2 units a day, and my testing was what saved his life? Even the day that I demanded to be shown how to give him insulin, they just brought me in for two minutes so she could show me the skin tent for the cat and that was it, and I called out of work to do it. I've just been really frustrated with his care, and I am thankful that I quit taking the vet for their word, because they almost killed my cat.
Taylor can you add to your SS what wet food Smash is eating. Thanks
Smash is a handsome boy
 
And Covid does not make the vet situation any easier.

We can help. There are members here who have done the research and lived feline diabetes 24/7.

The Purina OM wet food is 21% carbs. The Purina OM Savory Selects wet food is 17& carbs. If you are giving the dry version, the carbs will be even higher.

However, it is important to switch foods slowly because just by eliminating a high carb food, blood glucose numbers can drop by up to 100.

It could be that Smash (great name btw) is bouncing from the greens from the other day. Or it could be that Smash needs a dose somewhere between 1 and 2 units. Time will tell.

You can pick half unit syringes up at any pharmacy. If you live in a place where a prescription is required by law, you will need a prescription. (I'm in Canada and I'm not sure which states do and which states don't.)

Full unit syringes will do the job as well. It's just easier with half unit syringes is all.

Thankful that you have done some research and are getting on top of things. And welcome.
 
And Covid does not make the vet situation any easier.

We can help. There are members here who have done the research and lived feline diabetes 24/7.

The Purina OM wet food is 21% carbs. The Purina OM Savory Selects wet food is 17& carbs. If you are giving the dry version, the carbs will be even higher.

However, it is important to switch foods slowly because just by eliminating a high carb food, blood glucose numbers can drop by up to 100.

It could be that Smash (great name btw) is bouncing from the greens from the other day. Or it could be that Smash needs a dose somewhere between 1 and 2 units. Time will tell.

You can pick half unit syringes up at any pharmacy. If you live in a place where a prescription is required by law, you will need a prescription. (I'm in Canada and I'm not sure which states do and which states don't.)

Full unit syringes will do the job as well. It's just easier with half unit syringes is all.

Thankful that you have done some research and are getting on top of things. And welcome.
Hey Kel just for the hell if it do you understand her AMPS and PMPS cells, I don't see why she is not putting the BG for the AM and then the PMPS 12 hours apart
 
Hello and welcome.

I get what is happening with the preshot cells. The +12 etc, is telling us how many hours after the previous shot. If you skip a shot, like you did 2 nights ago, it's easier for us to spot it if you put either NS (no shot) or skip in the units cells. That way we know you skipped, instead of just forgetting to fill in the units. With that skip, the depot will be interrupted and only when the depot fills up again will those numbers come down. Plus there could be some element of bouncing, or Smash's body reacting to those low numbers a couple days ago.

Was 11/07 when you started insulin? That's when the spreadsheet starts. You also need to hold a starting dose 5-7 days for the depot to build with Lantus, so that increase to 2 units was both too soon, and too much. However, that's in the past, we can help you move forward.

So for now, how about we just wait and stay at 1 unit until you've had six cycles in a row at that dose. That'll give us a clue whether the 1 unit is too little or not. And use the time to see if you can source some 1/2 unit marked syringes. At the top of the Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir forum is a Sticky Note on Insulin Care and Syringe Info, and that'll tell you which ones have half units. While you are out shopping for syringes, make sure you pick up some Ketostix or other ketone testing stix. You need to make sure he's not throwing ketones with a drop in dose.

Lantus dosing should be as close to 12 hours apart as you can. Having said that, you can move it up or down 1/2 hour once a day or 15 minutes per cycle and still be fine.
 
Hello and welcome.

I get what is happening with the preshot cells. The +12 etc, is telling us how many hours after the previous shot. If you skip a shot, like you did 2 nights ago, it's easier for us to spot it if you put either NS (no shot) or skip in the units cells. That way we know you skipped, instead of just forgetting to fill in the units. With that skip, the depot will be interrupted and only when the depot fills up again will those numbers come down. Plus there could be some element of bouncing, or Smash's body reacting to those low numbers a couple days ago.

Was 11/07 when you started insulin? That's when the spreadsheet starts. You also need to hold a starting dose 5-7 days for the depot to build with Lantus, so that increase to 2 units was both too soon, and too much. However, that's in the past, we can help you move forward.

So for now, how about we just wait and stay at 1 unit until you've had six cycles in a row at that dose. That'll give us a clue whether the 1 unit is too little or not. And use the time to see if you can source some 1/2 unit marked syringes. At the top of the Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir forum is a Sticky Note on Insulin Care and Syringe Info, and that'll tell you which ones have half units. While you are out shopping for syringes, make sure you pick up some Ketostix or other ketone testing stix. You need to make sure he's not throwing ketones with a drop in dose.

Lantus dosing should be as close to 12 hours apart as you can. Having said that, you can move it up or down 1/2 hour once a day or 15 minutes per cycle and still be fine.
First off Hi @Wendy&Neko haven't spoke to you in a long time.
Thanks for explaining what she was doing with the cells
It was just confusing to me because I never saw anyone do it like that.
Have a good night Wendy :cat:
 
Sorry my sheet looks so weird! I honestly just looked at one person's to see how they did it, and didn't realize theirs was weird, too. I'll be sure to look at a couple tonight to see what it's supposed to look like and adjust.
 
Sorry my sheet looks so weird! I honestly just looked at one person's to see how they did it, and didn't realize theirs was weird, too. I'll be sure to look at a couple tonight to see what it's supposed to look like and adjust.
Hey Taylor, You can look at mine Tyler's.
It's just that I never saw anyone enter it like that.I was just wondering why you put for an example on 11-19 PM cycle you put 260 @+11 in the PMPS cell rather than put it in the 11 cell
Sorry if you took it the wrong way .
Have a good night
 
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Hi. You would never shoot under 68 once you have enough data. I suggest asking for dosing advice if under 90 right now. That being said if you change to lower carb food it will likely have a positive effect with the bg. I love your cat’s name too !
 
Hello and welcome.

I get what is happening with the preshot cells. The +12 etc, is telling us how many hours after the previous shot. If you skip a shot, like you did 2 nights ago, it's easier for us to spot it if you put either NS (no shot) or skip in the units cells. That way we know you skipped, instead of just forgetting to fill in the units. With that skip, the depot will be interrupted and only when the depot fills up again will those numbers come down. Plus there could be some element of bouncing, or Smash's body reacting to those low numbers a couple days ago.

Was 11/07 when you started insulin? That's when the spreadsheet starts. You also need to hold a starting dose 5-7 days for the depot to build with Lantus, so that increase to 2 units was both too soon, and too much. However, that's in the past, we can help you move forward.

So for now, how about we just wait and stay at 1 unit until you've had six cycles in a row at that dose. That'll give us a clue whether the 1 unit is too little or not. And use the time to see if you can source some 1/2 unit marked syringes. At the top of the Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir forum is a Sticky Note on Insulin Care and Syringe Info, and that'll tell you which ones have half units. While you are out shopping for syringes, make sure you pick up some Ketostix or other ketone testing stix. You need to make sure he's not throwing ketones with a drop in dose.

Lantus dosing should be as close to 12 hours apart as you can. Having said that, you can move it up or down 1/2 hour once a day or 15 minutes per cycle and still be fine.

I'm sorry I overlooked this. He started 11/2, but I was new to testing and kept getting error messages on my relion, so the 7th was when we got the Alpha Trak. I'll keep him on 1 unit, and the only reason we switched to 2 was because I called my vet in a panic about his high numbers, so they did 2. I'll definitely get the strips, and thank you for looking at his chart. Where should I find more information about ketones?
 
Hi. You would never shoot under 68 once you have enough data. I suggest asking for dosing advice if under 90 right now. That being said if you change to lower carb food it will likely have a positive effect with the bg. I love your cat’s name too !

His sister's name is Crash, so it's a cute duo!

I had no idea there was a number I shouldn't give insulin to him. That day we switched to 1 rather than 2, because that felt so wrong. My vet really left us in the dark. BUT I am in the Facebook group, and I had made a post and had a lot of help in getting his numbers up, and it lead me to finally set myself up with a chart and to meet you all in the forum, and I am so, so thankful.
 
We've been sticking to 1 unit and Reveal wet food (the Temptations treats were just to increase the sugar levels, and his regular treats for pokes are freeze dried chicken), and we have had some blue numbers days! Thank you all. This is the first time we have felt a normal streak through this process
 
I'm so happy you're getting good numbers for your boy!
I wanted to say I totally sympatize with your syringe anxiety. I'm a week in and still get weak in the knees when I have to inject. I wish I had some good tips, but we just have to push on and find our groove.
With my syringes I found that it stuck a bit a few times trying to do the shot. So I started pushing the back of the syringe in and out a few times before drawing the insulin to loosen the rubber stopper. Also as mentioned in the tips I angle the bevel of the needle to the top.
For me the trickiest is to get myself in a good position where Buddy is relaxed as well. I'm sure me stressing out isn't helping his mood either haha
 
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