(Relative) Newbies - Sugarbaby Nìco ⬆️ numbers

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I just can’t believe the vet wants him on only 1u for 3 weeks, without any testing. Like WHAT?!?!!! He’d be dead if I followed that plan... I am so utterly grateful for your guidance, all of you. Still haven’t worked out what I’m gonna say to his vet in 3 weeks when he’s on much more than 1u of insulin, but I guess I’ll cross that bridge in a few weeks when they ask. Feline diabetes is not for the faint of heart, that’s for sure. What testing should I do overnight? I try to get one extra reading but with a new dose maybe it needs to be more? Let me know your thoughts.
 
Prozinc usually onsets, or starts to work around +2, but sometimes not until +3 in other cats. ECID. Every Cat is Different.

So a +2 and/or a +3 can be useful. Then, if you get a chance, one more test before you head off to sleep.

You want to get some more BG numbers around the middle of the cycle. Somewhere in the +5 to +7 hour time frame is good.

Don't short yourself on sleep. With those high BG levels that Nico is getting, he is unlikely to drop down below 100 mg/dL, which is when you would want to pay attention a bit more to what is going on.

Also with those high BG numbers, do try to get a ketone test every day. With either the ketodiastix (which test the urine) or there are special blood test meters that can also test the blood for ketone levels.

Emily Tuomey said:
Or that she truly believes he’s pre-diabetic. “Borderline.” :eek:
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What other symptoms did Nico have when you took him into the vet?
 
Emily Tuomey said:
I just can’t believe the vet wants him on only 1u for 3 weeks, without any testing. Like WHAT?!?!!! He’d be dead if I followed that plan... I am so utterly grateful for your guidance, all of you. Still haven’t worked out what I’m gonna say to his vet in 3 weeks when he’s on much more than 1u of insulin, but I guess I’ll cross that bridge in a few weeks when they ask. Feline diabetes is not for the faint of heart, that’s for sure. What testing should I do overnight? I try to get one extra reading but with a new dose maybe it needs to be more? Let me know your thoughts.
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I'd probably get a before bed number then go to sleep. He's not close to too low. You can sleep tonight. I usually shot my cat at 6 ish then test again at 10 and that's it (unless the number is unusually low).
 
Deb & Wink said:
Prozinc usually onsets, or starts to work around +2, but sometimes not until +3 in other cats. ECID. Every Cat is Different.

So a +2 and/or a +3 can be useful. Then, if you get a chance, one more test before you head off to sleep.

You want to get some more BG numbers around the middle of the cycle. Somewhere in the +5 to +7 hour time frame is good.

Don't short yourself on sleep. With those high BG levels that Nico is getting, he is unlikely to drop down below 100 mg/dL, which is when you would want to pay attention a bit more to what is going on.
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That’s good to know about PZI beginning to work at +2 or +3. I will try to start getting a few more (later) mid cycle tests in the coming days. I have tried to fill it out a bit more since two days ago, just so it’s helpful to those helping with dosing. Pray 2u might help him more, but it doesn’t sound like that’ll be where he will stay just based on his current readings. He’s still so, so high. I’m trying to be patient though, and take periods of “self care” as well... 7p can’t come soon enough!
 
Deb & Wink said:
there are special blood test meters that can also test the blood for ketone levels.
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Do you have a recommendation for brands folks have good luck with? We’ve had poor luck with the 10in1 urinalysis strips we got before.. maybe they’re trying to test too many things to be effective? Idk. The vet also said if it’s contaminated at all they can be super far off.

In regards to this:

Deb & Wink said:
What other symptoms did Nico have when you took him into the vet?
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Nico was taken in originally due to anorexia and pretty extreme weight loss— originally was thought to have been because of a recent diet change (dry food)— and increased thirst/urination. A little lethargy, but nothing major— again thinking it was just due to his lack of caloric intake. Other than that no symptoms and has always been totally healthy.
 
JanetNJ said:
Lol yeah no that would be like numbers in the high 100's, not 400+
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Deb & Wink said:
In humans, 100-125 mg/dL is considered to be pre-diabetic. No different for cats.

See this article for more info, and perhaps pass it along to your vet.
Managing feline diabetes: current perspectives - NCBI - NIH
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Thank you for this. I don’t want to insinuate that she’s wrong, but um she’s wrong. Lol! I did request his records today, but apparently they’ve not gotten around to sending them yet. Hopefully tomorrow. And hopefully they’ll shed some more light on why she’s saying what she’s saying. I’ll post them when I have them.
 
Emily Tuomey said:
Do you have a recommendation for brands folks have good luck with? We’ve had poor luck with the 10in1 urinalysis strips we got before.. maybe they’re trying to test too many things to be effective? Idk. The vet also said if it’s contaminated at all they can be super far off.
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I use a ketone blood meter called the Keto MOJO which I got on amazon. TheY recently phased out the strips for the model I was using so I'm thinking of switching to different brand like the ketosen. I find the ketone blood meters much more convenient than waiting for her to pee.
 
JanetNJ said:
I use a ketone blood meter called the Keto MOJO which I got on amazon. TheY recently phased out the strips for the model I was using so I'm thinking of switching to different brand like the ketosen. I find the ketone blood meters much more convenient than waiting for her to pee.
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And the results are trustworthy? I’ll go look at them now. Nico is a tad grumpy with me atm.. he’s hungry. It’s been a long hour... he checks back in with me like every ten minutes. Now? .. Now? .. How about now? LOL
 
2u shot. Really didn’t need to test his BG cause we knew 4 hrs ago that he’d be HI. But, officially. I’ll plan to take a +3 or +4. I may set an alarm to check a +6 or +7 as well.. not sleeping much these days anyway. I’ll keep you guys updated. As for Nico atm, he’s just happy to have a bunch of attention and a full belly. :cat:
 
+3 448. Was hoping I’d see a greater change honestly.. like, is there a dose that’s going to work for him..??! :( I know I can’t rush it and that you’ll help me get there, I just feel like I was incredibly misguided and led to believe his diabetes was far less of an issue than it actually is. It’s BAD. :arghh::arghh: I’m gonna leave him alone for the night, I think we both need some actual rest. I’ll check back in after our AMPS.
 
Emily Tuomey said:
is there a dose that’s going to work for him..??
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You are still very early into treatment. It was a good 5-6 months before I started to see some real signs of progress with China. He didn't become diabetic overnight. It's going to take time for you to get him under better control.

I know it doesn't make you feel any better, but hang in there. You'll get there!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
You are still very early into treatment. It was a good 5-6 months before I started to see some real signs of progress with China. He didn't become diabetic overnight. It's going to take time for you to get him under better control.

I know it doesn't make you feel any better, but hang in there. You'll get there!
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For what it’s worth I know I sound crazy neurotic, but some of my }%!£,~¥ stems a lotttttt from all of the uncertainty in the world right now, and in the stress of other family members health issues— all of which is coming out in just about any way it can; namely [sometimes completely unnecessary] frustration and anxiety. 2020 is a BEAR, and it’s not over yet.. ayyyyyy.
Goodnight my new FDMB family.
 
He must not feel too bad atm. There’s a standoff going on:
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Emily Tuomey said:
And the results are trustworthy? I’ll go look at them now. Nico is a tad grumpy with me atm.. he’s hungry. It’s been a long hour... he checks back in with me like every ten minutes. Now? .. Now? .. How about now? LOL
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I have been happy with it. Ketones hit the blood before the urine, and I don’t have to wait for pee. It needs a little bigger sample than my reg meter though so I have to make sure the drop is big enough.
 
:arghh:
JanetNJ said:
We want to see pinks today! Low pinks! You hear me, Nico???

if you can get him to move more and play that can help numbers, too! Pull out that feather stick, or laser pointer, or string or whatever gets him going.
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Haha we have been! Every day. His sister, Brooklyn, helps with that because she gets going then he wants to join in as well— plus I heard it helps with muscle weakness as well.

In other news, my anxiety is through the roof today so if I’m a little extra, it’s because I’m terribly unsettled. AMPS 591 :( :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting: +2 516 :arghh: what am I doing wrong??!!!
 
He’s running (literally right now), jumping, playing, snuggling, eating, “talking.” He shows absolutely NO signs that his numbers should be so high, yet they remain. Is it possible I’m furshotting like every dose?! I see skin, I feel it pop through... I’m a helper by nature, but I’m at a loss here (even with my extensive medical background— I’m a pediatric nurse). Mamabean is struggling.
 
Emily Tuomey said:
:arghh:
Haha we have been! Every day. His sister, Brooklyn, helps with that because she gets going then he wants to join in as well— plus I heard it helps with muscle weakness as well.

In other news, my anxiety is through the roof today so if I’m a little extra, it’s because I’m terribly unsettled. AMPS 591 :( :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting: +2 516 :arghh: what am I doing wrong??!!!
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You arent doing anything wrong. Some things you have no control over. I’d say a 75 point drop in 2 hours is significant. You can give it more time in between tests unless you are just doing it out of curiosity.
 
Emily Tuomey said:
He’s running (literally right now), jumping, playing, snuggling, eating, “talking.” He shows absolutely NO signs that his numbers should be so high, yet they remain. Is it possible I’m furshotting like every dose?! I see skin, I feel it pop through... I’m a helper by nature, but I’m at a loss here (even with my extensive medical background— I’m a pediatric nurse). Mamabean is struggling.
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. Dude sometimes you have to find the improvements by looking at his behavior. He’s more than the number on the meter. Clearly he’s feeling better so that’s a step in the right direction. 2 is still a low dose. There’s a good chance you won’t see a significant change until you get to 3-5 units. They need what they need. But eventually we will find the right dose and the numbers will come down. It can take months. Patience is a virtue. Lol. Let’s see how he is this weekend. If not much improvements you can bump it up again.
 
JanetNJ said:
You can give it more time in between tests unless you are just doing it out of curiosity.
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Well this morning, for sure, it was just out of curiosity or maybe honestly just to try to ease my anxiety a little bit. Not sure it helped. I’m gonna wait and do like a +7 today but that’s it. I just figured since we’ve been upped in dose maybe the data might be helpful? But I can dial it back for a few days; I’m sure both Nico and myself would welcome the break. Thanks for all your encouragement today!
 
JanetNJ said:
. Dude sometimes you have to find the improvements by looking at his behavior. He’s more than the number on the meter.
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^^ I warned you I was extra today. Next stop, anxiety meds LOL <<think calm thoughts>> I’ll be alright.

jt and trouble (GA) said:
I know its hard but give this new dose a chance to settle. You can always go up OR down.
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I think maybe I need to do some more reading on how insulin actually works in cats. It’s not ibuprofen for a headache...
 
Love your description of Niko's antics with running and chasing and the "standoff" picture on the cat tree with cat sister Brooklyn.
Emily Tuomey said:
Just received Nico’s test results. Where do I add them?
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On the spreadsheet, there is a tab labeled "Labs". You have to enter the reference ranges if they are different from what is listed there.
Then, you insert a column on that tab, the "Labs" tab, and start entering the data for the tests that you had done.
 
JanetNJ said:
You know you can feed him mid cycle, right? It doesn’t have to be just twice a day.
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Oh yes, we free feed outside of 2 hrs pre-shot. And, I thought maybe it was probably fine to feed.. not like he’s gonna be higher or go too low, but I wasn’t sure how close together feeding and insulin needed to happen... if an hour or half hour early to feed was gonna mess him up (and he usually goes to nap after).
 
Emily Tuomey said:
Oh yes, we free feed outside of 2 hrs pre-shot. And, I thought maybe it was probably fine to feed.. not like he’s gonna be higher or go too low, but I wasn’t sure how close together feeding and insulin needed to happen... if an hour or half hour early to feed was gonna mess him up (and he usually goes to nap after).
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The food with the shot is to prevent him from going too low. Pretty sure that's not the case tonight. Lol
 
Emily Tuomey said:
Nico’s test results are now in his SS. Hope that they are helpful. Let me know your thoughts?? (I know how to interpret them for a human, but no idea about a diabetic cat :joyful:)
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Well the good news is I don't see anything terrible in the labs. Kidneys are still good, no anemia. A little high neutrophiles which could mean a bacterial infection is brewing I think. Let me tag @Marje and Gracie who has more experience reading labs.
 
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