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CB Terri

Member Since 2020
Two cats to the vet last week - my diabetic cat was not diagnosed, my non-diabetic cat WAS. The LOOOONG story:
I took my 10 year old dsh foster-failure (lol) Cotton to my vet last Tuesday. He has been with me 2 years, a former victim of abuse, and was in poor condition when he first came to me, with bald stress-licked patches and an attitude of hate to other cats. In 2 years he had put on weight and a good coat, and in calm consistent home, his confidence improved and he became a sweet and loving gentleman.
Two Saturdays ago he went a couple days without eating, but drinking at the fountain for minutes and minutes and.... He's never drank like that prior. Combined with the refusal to eat, which he NEVER has done, and formerly dropping some of his dried kibble when he *was* eating, I suspected a systemic infection because his gums seemed very red and he had a darker tooth. I gave him a doxycycline suspension 20mg (okay for cats, good for blood infections from dental issues) till I could get him to the vet. But really, I didn't know what was ailing him.
(Background- All my 6 indoor cats had been eating either Whiskas seafood or Purina Senior 7+ all their time with me - no wet. But I noticed that Cottie was a bit thinner so I decided to add in wet food to see if it would help him gain flesh, and ended up giving it to them all -(Friskies canned Chicken pate/turkey & giblets/beef). And all seemed to do well till last week.

FYI, it is next to impossible to get to see my vet without a beast's leg hanging off - vets here where I live are an hour away from me in one direction, 1.5 hours the other way. They don't have any active medical care or diagnostics after 5 pm, just cage them and a vet tech comes in during the night to do I dont know what.

It so happened that I an appointment for my cat Sootie for regular vomiting/constant diarrhea/teeth grinding that I had to wait 3 weeks to get in for (*another story, one which I managed to resolve on my own helpful pet store owner advice - diet change for suspected food intolerance))
I had to substitute in Cotton and forego Sootie, to get him seen.

I waited 2 hours in the parkinglot beyond my appointment time and finally got in with Coton.
When I saw the vet I said I suspected a systemic infection regarding his teeth, mentioned the weight loss and water loading, advised I was fully prepared to pay for bloodwork. Vet took Cottie's temp, looked in his mouth and said no infection, no gum probems, gave him a long-acting shot of penicillin and sent us home. No mention the symptoms were diabetic - just rush rush out.

The very next night my 13 year old dsh female Sookie vomited 3 times through the evening, everything up - it was only food, nothing else.I didn't think much of it since they do throw harballs with regularity.
But the next day she didn't eat OR drink. She was lethargic, not really paying attention to me, and NOT EATING anything, even treats, which is big time concern for her (and Cotton, the mooches of the house). Sookie will steal entire pork chops out of a package thawing in the sink - she loves her food. So when she doesnt eat for two days AND doesnt drink I am freaking out and not sleeping, syringing water to her. She accepted two blades of grass reluctantly, but didnt bring them up so I suspected an internal blockage like a big hairball. I called the vet at home, and had to beg for an appointment - he said to call the office next morning (Fridat) and they would get me in either the next day or Saturday.
Appointment for 3pm.
I was there, and the staff just wanted me to leave her there overnight. NO!! She needed looking at TODAY - not sit in a cage there and die alone in a strange place with nothing done like my cat Baby had 13 years before at that same vet, I am still scarred by that nightmare.
I refused to leave Sookie and said I'd take her home and 'observe' her there and bring her back the next day but PLEASE look at her. I said I had money for bloodwork, xray or ultrasound. They said the vet was going to stop in on his way to another office for 15 minutes, so they asked him to look at her after I did my best to insist.
He took her temperature, felt her belly and said she 'seemed sore'. I convinced him to at least do bloodwork before the office closed at 5pm and asked if that was going to show any internal blockage? No answer.
Got the bloodwork back.
All was normal but BG was 15 - he said my cat was diabetic and very dehydrated, showed me how to inject insulin, gave me a botle and syringes with directions for 2 units 2x per day. No mention of home monitoring. We gave her one dose 2 units there. He told me to get pedialyte snd syringe it into her till she resumed drinking.
My mother is diabetic so I went and got an accuchek monitor so I could test her.
The next morning she had a fasting BG of 10 so I followed the vet advice and gave 2 units.
But I couldn't shake that she didnt seem diabetic, always energetic & playful, normal water and eating, till this episode.
So I continued to test her the past 3 mornings and she has been 5.0, 5.6 and 7.7 in mornings with no insulin. I will continue to monitor.
Now here is the last word - I tested Cotton this weekend and Saturday night BG was 26.8, his FASTING morning sugar was 25. This morning it was in that area too. I gave him 2 units morning and night on Sunday, 2.5 units this morning before his food.
So here I am, trying to figure this all out, was feeling quite overwhelmed and without vet support becausd had I followed my vet's advice, Sookie would most likely be dead from hypoglycemia, and Cotton undiagnosed. I know there a GREAT vets out there, but I am not experiencing that sort of servicd here.
If you have read all this, you are likely as exhausted as me. I am going to take a short nap!!
 
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Hello and welcome, and whew!!!!! What an ordeal!!!!!

Good job having the sense to start testing on your own-- poor Sootie! and the brainstorm to test Cotton, and getting here, and getting your signature set up, and and and... I'm so sorry that your "local" vet is less than helpful.

I'm going to guess based on your insulin and meter choices plus the measurement units for BG that you are somewhere in Canada? If it's an hour and a half to the vet it's probably a pretty sparsely populated region and it's not likely that we have any members that could help with a vet recommendation, but boy, it sure seems like you need to find another vet for your crew. I am not sure what to suggest here. If you're going 1.5hrs in one direction for poor service, maybe it'd be worth a try going 2 or more hrs in another direction for better? Because it really seems like you're going to need some help on one thing or another here, in addition to the FD help we can offer here.

Specifically: I would bet money that Cotton needs a dental including at least one extraction, and that you aren't going to be able to get his BG under control until he gets it. And there may be something brewing with Sootie, too-- did the vet test for pancreatitis with the bloodwork? It's not part of a standard panel, but matches all her symptoms, including the sore abdomen. The test would be called something like SNAP fPL or Spec fPL on the paperwork.

Back to Cotton's FD. If you are in Canada, you have easy access to a much better insulin for cats than Caninsulin-- Lantus (a human insulin) is available for cats without a prescription, I believe. It's an excellent insulin for cats.

In the meantime, we need to work out the proper insulin dose for Cotton. I know your vet prescribed 2U for Sootie, that's a pretty big starting dose (poor kitty! so glad you were testing!!!). I would be quite nervous about starting with that, and going up to 2.5U as you did is also worrisome without more info.

Others I'm sure will chime in with more ideas, but in the meantime, let me say again, whew!!!! And welcome!

:bighug: :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
WHOA... This is a LOT We will do our best to help you get this sorted.

WELCOME TO FDMB the place to get answers AND help.
Right now I'm going to direct you here as I have a plumber coming any minuet. This link you help you acquainted qith how things work around here.
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
You HAVE landed in a safe place for Cotton. We are dedicated to helping anyone wo needs guidance AND answers.

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

I dont think you mention WHAT insulin you are using PLEASE state that in your reply. It will make guiding you easier.

This IS the BEST site on this planet t learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes.

ugh my plumber is here ! THANK YOU NAN!
 
WHOA... This is a LOT We will do our best to help you get this sorted.

WELCOME TO FDMB the place to get answers AND help.
Right now I'm going to direct you here as I have a plumber coming any minuet. This link you help you acquainted qith how things work around here.
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
You HAVE landed in a safe place for Cotton. We are dedicated to helping anyone wo needs guidance AND answers.

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

I dont think you mention WHAT insulin you are using PLEASE state that in your reply. It will make guiding you easier.

This IS the BEST site on this planet t learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes.

ugh my plumber is here ! THANK YOU NAN!
Hello Jt! You are already famous to me, I've seen your name while reading through some posts. Respects to the memory of Trouble <3
I have been given Canninsulin, I had put it in my signature but maybe it isn't showing :-( My mind's a jumble and I'm a bit sleep deprived.
I read that it's no longer recommended since 2018 in the US for cats and it is my aim to get another.
 
Hello and welcome, and whew!!!!! What an ordeal!!!!!

Good job having the sense to start testing on your own-- poor Sootie! and the brainstorm to test Cotton, and getting here, and getting your signature set up, and and and... I'm so sorry that your "local" vet is less than helpful.

I'm going to guess based on your insulin and meter choices plus the measurement units for BG that you are somewhere in Canada? If it's an hour and a half to the vet it's probably a pretty sparsely populated region and it's not likely that we have any members that could help with a vet recommendation, but boy, it sure seems like you need to find another vet for your crew. I am not sure what to suggest here. If you're going 1.5hrs in one direction for poor service, maybe it'd be worth a try going 2 or more hrs in another direction for better? Because it really seems like you're going to need some help on one thing or another here, in addition to the FD help we can offer here.

Specifically: I would bet money that Cotton needs a dental including at least one extraction, and that you aren't going to be able to get his BG under control until he gets it. And there may be something brewing with Sootie, too-- did the vet test for pancreatitis with the bloodwork? It's not part of a standard panel, but matches all her symptoms, including the sore abdomen. The test would be called something like SNAP fPL or Spec fPL on the paperwork.

Back to Cotton's FD. If you are in Canada, you have easy access to a much better insulin for cats than Caninsulin-- Lantus (a human insulin) is available for cats without a prescription, I believe. It's an excellent insulin for cats.

In the meantime, we need to work out the proper insulin dose for Cotton. I know your vet prescribed 2U for Sootie, that's a pretty big starting dose (poor kitty! so glad you were testing!!!). I would be quite nervous about starting with that, and going up to 2.5U as you did is also worrisome without more info.

Others I'm sure will chime in with more ideas, but in the meantime, let me say again, whew!!!! And welcome!

:bighug: :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
Hi Nan, thankyou for the welcome!!
Yes I am in Canada and when I catch my breath I will be calling our local walmart and pharmacies to ask about Lantin, I'm loathe to go back ever again to this clinic.
I will also have to investigate the next nearest vet to this one. I will also check Sookie's bloodwork paper.

So re Cotton - dental affects BG?? Will I find a thread somewhere in the forum about that?
Thanks for your time it is so very appreciated <3
 
You have entered your info correctly my eyes at that moment were not. :p

dissect the word Canninsulin... does the word Canine come to mind? Thats because this insulin was developed for dogs. The insulin of choice (for cats) here is Lantus. Not that Prozinc ISN'T it a very good insulin. Its a matter of choice.
I no longer have a diabetic kitty and in fact when I did, we were put on NPH (one of the worst) but we still achieved remission.
Canninsulin is as harsh as NPH it hits fast and hard. and usually only last 8 hours in most cats.
This is a SERIOUS conversation you should have with your vet. (Some vets are not open to such conversations but can be convinced in the interest of the animal)
Again welcome to the one site you never wanted to to belong to.

Yes dentals can affect bg #'s
 
Tagging @Red & Rover (GA) for more Canada-specific thoughts.

Dental issues can definitely have a big effect on BG. We've had cats drop in and out of remission depending on what's going on with their teeth. More info on dentals: Info on Dental Procedures (including pictures)

As you can see from those links, not surprisingly it's something that must be done under general anesthesia, so even if routine it's not a minor thing for a small animal. You want to have a vet you trust doing it-- there are even some dental specialists out there-- and you don't want to cut corners if you can help it. Some things that don't seem that important (like getting x-rays before and after extractions) can be the difference between a successful procedure and not.
 
Waving from central Ontario.
Thank goodness you took the initiative and started testing.
Lantus is a good insulin for cats. Caninsulin is very harsh and drops a cat fast. It also does not always last the full 12 hours.

This link gives you the information about the best and the not-so-best insulins for cats. You might want to show it to your vet.

Before driving all over the Cape, you might want to make some phone calls to clinics in search of a vet that will work with you. Covid does not make it easy. It would be good to have a vet on board if you decide to switch insulins.

Lantus information
Sticky The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!

In Canada, humans need a prescription for Lantus. Cats do not. Just say it is for your cat. A box of cartridges costs roughly $120 and will last you a year or so.

IMPORTANT:
Caninsulin and Lantus use different syringes. Caninsulin uses U40 needles. Lantus uses U100 needles (preferably with half unit markings and available at any pharmacy). The syringes are not interchangeable.


BD_320440__64513.1520533063.jpg

Polysporin Complete ointment (not the cream) will help the ears feel a bit better.

In Canada, Fancy Feast Classics are called pates.

There's only one dry food in Canada that is considered low carb. Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein. However, do not make a drastic switch in food. It needs to be done gradually because just changing to a low carb diet can drop overall numbers by up to 5 (90).

Will think of other Canadian things to tell you. I'm not quite awake enough yet.
 

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Thank you, Red and
Waving from central Ontario.
Thank goodness you took the initiative and started testing.
Lantus is a good insulin for cats. Caninsulin is very harsh and drops a cat fast. It also does not always last the full 12 hours.

This link gives you the information about the best and the not-so-best insulins for cats. You might want to show it to your vet.

Before driving all over the Cape, you might want to make some phone calls to clinics in search of a vet that will work with you. Covid does not make it easy. It would be good to have a vet on board if you decide to switch insulins.

Lantus information
Sticky The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!

In Canada, humans need a prescription for Lantus. Cats do not. Just say it is for your cat. A box of cartridges costs roughly $120 and will last you a year or so.

IMPORTANT:
Caninsulin and Lantus use different syringes. Caninsulin uses U40 needles. Lantus uses U100 needles (preferably with half unit markings and available at any pharmacy). The syringes are not interchangeable.


View attachment 57928
Polysporin Complete ointment (not the cream) will help the ears feel a bit better.

In Canada, Fancy Feast Classics are called pates.

There's only one dry food in Canada that is considered low carb. Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein. However, do not make a drastic switch in food. It needs to be done gradually because just changing to a low carb diet can drop overall numbers by up to 5 (90).

Will think of other Canadian things to tell you. I'm not quite awake enough yet.

Thank you Red & Rover!
My cats have always preferred pates when wet was mostly a treat - I wondered what 'classics' referred to and you have enlightened me :-D

I will read the Lantus sticky Thus far I have contacted a Walmart pharmacy to confirm the Lantus is indeed available to me when I am able to get a vet I trust for the switchover. Thanks for the note on the syringes.
I have a had some of my mind restored to me now and some sleep under my belt - and Cotton and I are getting down the ear blood draws without my bleeding him out. Hopefully in the next week I'll have time to research and do up a Blood Glucose curve to look at bringing him down to a suitable range.
I have yet to look into Cotton's teeth cleaning.

And even more good news, Sookie has begun eating & drinking again. Her appetite isn't full on but she's up and about, purring, cuddling, and sleeping in her normal places again, which includes in behind my knees when I am reclined on the sofa - oh the relief! <3 <3
She is pretty sensitive and while I was hamfisted with thd blood draws and she was feeling so ill, I wasn't doing them every day since the first of them were so normal. I will test her sugar tomorrow morning before feeding just to ensure it's stayed normal. I think the diagnosis was based on her being in pain from whatever was upsetting her stomach added to the stress of a trip to the vet.
Lastly, what is the idea of 'cartridges'?
Thanks again to you and everyone else here who's posted.
 
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