11/5/20 New member-any advice is appreciated

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Haley and Steven (GA)

Haley and Steven (GA)

Member Since 2020
Hello! My name is Haley and my diabetic kitty is Steven. He was diagnosed about 2 months ago and we've gone through a lot in that time. I've found answers to a lot of my questions by reading threads on this site so I wanted to sign up and share our story and hopefully get some advice from other pet owners managing their cat's diabetes. Here's my lengthy story for anyone who wants to read, haha.

It happened (seemingly) out of no where. I had two other cats in the house at the time so I didn't notice the warning signs of a cat developing diabetes (increased thrist, urinating, etc.) He's 4 years old and has never been overweight.
So the story starts with me briefly switching his food. He had been eating hill's science diet wet food for awhile but I ran out so gave him some cheap Purina dry food while I waited a few days for my Amazon shipment to come in. He ate it in the past with no issues so I didn't think anything of it. After a day eating it, he lost his appetite. He was never picky so I figured it just upset his stomach. Well his normal wet food got there and he wouldn't eat that either. At that point I knew he was sick but again just assumed stomach issues. I called the vet for an appointment but it progressed very quickly after that day. I was force feeding him for a full day. He became extremely lethargic, jaundiced, dehyrated, but I was still thinking it was a stomach bug. So when I got him into the vet that day and they did his blood work I was devistated. His blood pressure was so low they could barely get his blood. His liver was failing, his kidneys were failing, and his glucose was around 800. They hospitilized him and I left in tears because we weren't expecting him to pull through. (After researching I think this was ketoacidosis?)
After 5 days of IV fluids and force feeding his glucose started going down and his liver and kidneys went from failing to healthy levels. The vets were aboslutely shocked and I was just ecstatic haha.

So we went through the process of getting him on insulin and successfully regulated him. He takes 2 units twice a day of Novilin. He lost way too much weight between being sick and starting the insulin so he's had some ongoing issues with his liver (the vet assumes its fatty liver disease.) So trying to monitor that along with the diabetes is difficult because if he's acting sick I don't always know if its his liver or if his blood sugar got too high.

So my first question for you guys is regarding at home testing. I bought the Alpha Trak 2 and I've been trying to do this but the readings were SO off. Like it said he was at 560 and we went to the vet and theirs read 150. I calibrated it, used the control solution, everything seems to be working. My vet gave me some tips but pretty much just said those aren't very accurate. Has anyone else had an issue like this with the Alpha Trak? I'm thinking about getting the Relion micro from walmart to see if it works better.


Secondly, ive noticed his back legs are weak and losing muscle (making an appointment with the vet to discuss this very soon.) From what I've read this can happen with diabetes but should start to reverse once they become regulated right? Is there anything I can do for him to help the process? He's only 4 but starting to walk like an old cat.

Thanks guys if you read this and I'm glad I found this message board!!!
 
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Oh nooo, poor little guy! I'm so glad he pulled through!

Couple of quick thoughts:

First: I'm a little worried about that 150 from the vet-- if that number is real, then Steven might be on too much insulin. It is quite possible for a cat to move from 560 to 150 on an insulin like Novalin over the course of a few hours (that's one of the reasons we don't recommend that insulin!), but if you were doing a side-by-side comparison, I dunno. One of the meters is wrong...

Second: yes, you can definitely switch to the Relion meter. I don't know what's wrong with your AT2 (it's usually quite a reliable meter), but I do know that the AT's are expensive to run, and human meters like the Relion work just fine for much less money. So since you're having trouble with the AT, no reason not to switch!

Third: Novalin is a pretty harsh insulin for cats, and 2U is a pretty big dose. It's understandable to use that kind of insulin in the emergency situation of a DKA, where you need to get control of high BG quickly, but for longer term diabetes management, cats do much better on longer-lasting, gentler insulins like Lantus or Prozinc. Do you think your vet might be willing to prescribe one of them? They can be more expensive, but we have tips that can save a lot of money on that as well, especially in the case of Lantus (many people order from Canada for a much lower price!).

And finally, this:

HaleyB said:
Secondly, ive noticed his back legs are weak and losing muscle (making an appointment with the vet to discuss this very soon.) From what I've read this can happen with diabetes but should start to reverse once they become regulated right? Is there anything I can do for him to help the process? He's only 4 but starting to walk like an old cat.
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Yes, this does sound like diabetic neuropathy. In addition to getting regulated, one thing that helps many kitties is a B12 supplement. For some reason I am blanking on the names of the common ones used around here, but someone else will probably fill them in, lol.

Sounds like Steven is quite a fighter! You're already well on your way to getting him back 100%, he's lucky to have you on his side!
 
WELCOME TO FDMB Haley and extra sweet Steven. Boy you guys have been through it! Well youve landed in a safe place . We are dedicated to helping people just like you! So glad you found us.
As you have already figured out theres a ton of information here with good people to help you navigate it all
I'm going to do a bit of that navigating and ask you to check out this link:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
This will get you acquainted on how things work around here.

I do have to leave to start dinner but just wanted to
WELCOME YOU TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

I'll check back later to make sure everything is ok;)
jeanne
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Oh nooo, poor little guy! I'm so glad he pulled through!

Couple of quick thoughts:

First: I'm a little worried about that 150 from the vet-- if that number is real, then Steven might be on too much insulin. It is quite possible for a cat to move from 560 to 150 on an insulin like Novalin over the course of a few hours (that's one of the reasons we don't recommend that insulin!), but if you were doing a side-by-side comparison, I dunno. One of the meters is wrong...

Second: yes, you can definitely switch to the Relion meter. I don't know what's wrong with your AT2 (it's usually quite a reliable meter), but I do know that the AT's are expensive to run, and human meters like the Relion work just fine for much less money. So since you're having trouble with the AT, no reason not to switch!

Third: Novalin is a pretty harsh insulin for cats, and 2U is a pretty big dose. It's understandable to use that kind of insulin in the emergency situation of a DKA, where you need to get control of high BG quickly, but for longer term diabetes management, cats do much better on longer-lasting, gentler insulins like Lantus or Prozinc. Do you think your vet might be willing to prescribe one of them? They can be more expensive, but we have tips that can save a lot of money on that as well, especially in the case of Lantus (many people order from Canada for a much lower price!).

And finally, this:



Yes, this does sound like diabetic neuropathy. In addition to getting regulated, one thing that helps many kitties is a B12 supplement. For some reason I am blanking on the names of the common ones used around here, but someone else will probably fill them in, lol.

Sounds like Steven is quite a fighter! You're already well on your way to getting him back 100%, he's lucky to have you on his side!
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Thank you! I think I'll switch to that meter just to try, if it's cheaper and works I might as well!
So we started him on 1 unit and it wasnt lowering his glucose so the vet upped it to 2. The day I tested and got 560 was about 4 hours after his first insulin dose and when we tested at the vet it was 5pm and he didn't take his next dose yet. (They told me every 12 hours so we do 8am and 8pm.) So if there was no injection in this time frame could it still have been the insulin rather than the meter?

At our next appointment I'll ask about a longer lasting insulin as well as a b12 supplement.
Also do you think a harsh insulin like novalin could cause vomiting? There have been a couple times I took him in for vomiting but the vet thinks this is is liver.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
First: I'm a little worried about that 150 from the vet-- if that number is real, then Steven might be on too much insulin.
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Sorry meant to ask about this too- my vet had me under the impression that this number is good. Is it too low? He said the insulin is working and he's "regulated" with this number.
 
HaleyB said:
Sorry meant to ask about this too- my vet had me under the impression that this number is good. Is it too low? He said the insulin is working and he's "regulated" with this number.
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I was maybe a little rushed when I said that.

150 is within the normal range for a "pet-calibrated" meter like the AT2 and (presumably) what your vet uses. It's an excellent number for overall health! I'm just a little concerned because of the harshness of Novalin, I get nervous when numbers start to get in that range. We like to leave a big safety buffer for that insulin. It is also a bit concerning now that I know the times involved. Basically, that's far later than we'd expect to see a low number due to insulin action, so there's something else happening here.

When we talk BG numbers, we usually give times in so-called "+" notation, +number of hours since the last shot (we're all in different time zones here!). If I understand, you have:

shot: 2U of Novalin
+4: 560 (AT2)
+9: 150 (at vet, presumably pet-calibrated meter)

Novalin starts to work within the first couple of hours, and often bottoms out by +4 or +5. I believe it would be pretty unusual for this insulin to have not done much at +4 and then suddenly come to life by +9. I am not a Novalin user and (because it's not that common around here) not familiar enough with its quirks to say for sure.

Could be meter error (on one or the other meter), could be some other things. We probably need more BG data to start really assessing the situation, though.
 
HaleyB said:
Sorry meant to ask about this too- my vet had me under the impression that this number is good. Is it too low? He said the insulin is working and he's "regulated" with this number.
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It could be too low at the vet office because cats are usually stressed and their bg is higher so the 150 at the vet office may have been a 90 or even lower at home. I say it could be because it’s hard to tell without more testing info. Anything above 68 on a pet meter and 50 on a human meter is okay but it’s right on the threshold. Anyway, with home testing you’ll start to see a pattern and get used to his numbers. Every cat is different.

I just wanted to add for the b12 methyl, which is not the same as regular b12 since it works directly on the spinal fluid to regenerate the nerves, no need to ask your vet. It’s over the counter and you can order online. Minnie had severe neuropathy and she recovered completely on b12 methyl in about 3 months once she was regulated. Your best bet to make sure he doesn’t get worse and recovers quickly is to switch to a better insulin for cats like Lantus or prozync as Nan suggested. Keep in mind, it could take a few months even on those. Feline diabetes is sadly a marathon not a sprint.

Welcome! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
It could be too low at the vet office because cats are usually stressed and their bg is higher so the 150 at the vet office may have been a 90 or even lower at home.
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Oooh, good point, I wasn't even thinking of that! But that also reminds me, although the vast majority of cats run a lot higher at the vet due to stress, we've seen a few that actually drop lower. So that could be another explanation (though it's probably not the most likely).
 
Thanks for all your input! I'm already starting to understand this better lol. Reading the link that Jeanne posted helped a lot too. So I'll keep using this meter and see how it goes.

So I'm seeing my issue now. I thought that once the insulin was working he would consistently be around 150. But in reality if hes at a good number like this, I wouldn't want to shoot him up with more insulin because that would drop it too low. So its normal to get high before he gets the shot. As you can tell my vet didn't explain this to me. I had no idea I should test before giving the insulin until I looked into it myself.

I'm still not sure about that change in numbers though because the novalin should have been wearing off by 5pm...
Either way I understand the importance of testing first now. Tonight the meter read 400 before eating & insulin. So now that I understand this better maybe my meter isn't too far off.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
It could be too low at the vet office because cats are usually stressed and their bg is higher so the 150 at the vet office may have been a 90 or even lower at home. I say it could be because it’s hard to tell without more testing info. Anything above 68 on a pet meter and 50 on a human meter is okay but it’s right on the threshold. Anyway, with home testing you’ll start to see a pattern and get used to his numbers. Every cat is different.

I just wanted to add for the b12 methyl, which is not the same as regular b12 since it works directly on the spinal fluid to regenerate the nerves, no need to ask your vet. It’s over the counter and you can order online. Minnie had severe neuropathy and she recovered completely on b12 methyl in about 3 months once she was regulated. Your best bet to make sure he doesn’t get worse and recovers quickly is to switch to a better insulin for cats like Lantus or prozync as Nan suggested. Keep in mind, it could take a few months even on those. Feline diabetes is sadly a marathon not a sprint.

Welcome! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Oh that's great I'd rather just buy it myself so much easier. Thank you for the welcome!!
 
One more question I forgot to ask, has anyone else noticed their cat's appetite increasing a lot after starting insulin? He's always loved food but now hes constantly meowing for food even since increasing the amount I give him.
 
HaleyB said:
Oh that's great I'd rather just buy it myself so much easier. Thank you for the welcome!!
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Zobaline is the better known brand and it’s made for cats but I found it to be too expensive since I was giving Minnie 2 pills a day and a bottle would only last me a month. I switched to Vitacost which @Diane Tyler's Mom also uses and it’s a lot more economical. It worked just as well and I like that it comes in capsules so I can just open and mix it with her food.
 
HaleyB said:
That's what I've read which is what worries me. But I've noticed it's typically later in the day 3-4 hours before his 2nd insulin shot.
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So... around the time he got the 150 at the vets? Curiouser and curiouser....

Diabetic cats are naturally hungry because they aren't able to process the calories in food. Is he over- or under-weight? If he's under (and even if he's over, for right now) there's no harm in feeding him a bit more, just to be on the safe side.

When you are testing regularly, we try to keep food away in the two hours preceding the pre-shot test, in order to get a non-food-influenced number. Then, after a pre-shot that's high enough (>250 to start), feed, wait 30mins, and shoot. It's OK to feed at other times (some vets recommend just two meals a day, which isn't best for most diabetic cats).
 
HaleyB said:
Thanks for all your input! I'm already starting to understand this better lol. Reading the link that Jeanne posted helped a lot too. So I'll keep using this meter and see how it goes.

So I'm seeing my issue now. I thought that once the insulin was working he would consistently be around 150. But in reality if hes at a good number like this, I wouldn't want to shoot him up with more insulin because that would drop it too low. So its normal to get high before he gets the shot. As you can tell my vet didn't explain this to me. I had no idea I should test before giving the insulin until I looked into it myself.

I'm still not sure about that change in numbers though because the novalin should have been wearing off by 5pm...
Either way I understand the importance of testing first now. Tonight the meter read 400 before eating & insulin. So now that I understand this better maybe my meter isn't too far off.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. For now we’ll say yes, but as you get more experience and data on testing you could shoot at 150 or even lower. I’ve given Minnie her full dose at under 100 with the guidance of some great more experienced members here who held my hand through it. And not I’m comfortable shooting those lower pre shot numbers because I have the data that tells me how she’ll react at +2,+4,+6 and so on. Also I’m on a gentler long lasting insulin which makes that possible and safer.
 
He weighs about 6 lbs, he's a small cat but definitely lost weight when this all started so I'm not against feeding him extra, haha. Hes getting around 130 calories a day right now. I'll increase it, like you both said since hes burning more it won't hurt.

Thank you, I'll check out vitacost becuase I also noticed ths Zobaline is quite pricey.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Yes and no. For now we’ll say yes, but as you get more experience and data on testing you could shoot at 150 or even lower. I’ve given Minnie her full dose at under 100 with the guidance of some great more experienced members here who held my hand through it. And not I’m comfortable shooting those lower pre shot numbers because I have the data that tells me how she’ll react at +2,+4,+6 and so on. Also I’m on a gentler long lasting insulin which makes that possible and safer.
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Gotcha so it really depends on what his numbers are like and his type of insulin and everything. I'll keep collecting his data to figure this thing out haha.
 
Hey guys I was going to make a new thread for this question but i figured this would be better since all my previous info is included.
(Haven't gotten around to the spread sheet yet but I've been checking glucose all day and will post the numbers)

I'm wondering if there are any determining symptoms between hyperglycemia and hypoglycemia. I'm not fully confident on the accuracy of my meter yet. I've been getting very high numbers and Steven is acting lethargic today but still has an appetite. I'm just curious because a lot of things I read list very similar symptoms for both scenarios.
He threw up some new treats yesterday morning and I had to do his shot later than usual so I believe this has to do with his BG going up? (To clarify I think the new treats just upset his stomach, and then he wouldn't eat because he was nauceuos so the shot was 2 hours late)
I'm honestly just paranoid that my meter is truly wrong and want some pointers for spotting the difference between BG being too high vs too low.
 
(Alpha Trak 2) Here's my readings so far today:
7:25 am 623 (before food & insulin) shot at 7:55am (2 u)
+2 424
+4. 574
+6 (2pm) didn't test but he ate 1.4 oz for lunch
+9 (5pm) 327

He's on Novalin...Is it weird that it dropped so much from +4 to +9? I would think it would rise at that point since this insulin isn't long lasting.

I haven't given him dinner or his second shot yet.
 
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I'm not really sure if there are any helpful symptoms of hyper to watch out for-- lethargy is a big one (overlaps with hypo), then just generally cats seem to feel yucky overall.

I agree that some of what you're seeing might be just the new food/treats not agreeing with him, and it's a very good thing that his appetite is still good, but one thing you should start doing now is ketone testing. You test urine samples with dipsticks (available in human pharmacies with other diabetic supplies). This is a "better safe than sorry" situation-- I'm not saying I think it's likely Steven is on that road, it's just that ketones are one of those things that is better treated with early detection, and it's easy enough to test. Here are Tips to catch and test a urine sample

Have to say, I still don't know what to make of his BG patterns. The thing is, if it's a bad meter, you're getting a pretty consistent pattern of readings out of it, they just don't quite comport with what I'd expect from Novalin (note: I am, however, not a Novalin user so all my knowledge is from reading and hearing other's stories, not direct experience. I don't think we have any experienced Novalin users around here at present).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
I'm not really sure if there are any helpful symptoms of hyper to watch out for-- lethargy is a big one (overlaps with hypo), then just generally cats seem to feel yucky overall.

I agree that some of what you're seeing might be just the new food/treats not agreeing with him, and it's a very good thing that his appetite is still good, but one thing you should start doing now is ketone testing. You test urine samples with dipsticks (available in human pharmacies with other diabetic supplies). This is a "better safe than sorry" situation-- I'm not saying I think it's likely Steven is on that road, it's just that ketones are one of those things that is better treated with early detection, and it's easy enough to test. Here are Tips to catch and test a urine sample

Have to say, I still don't know what to make of his BG patterns. The thing is, if it's a bad meter, you're getting a pretty consistent pattern of readings out of it, they just don't quite comport with what I'd expect from Novalin (note: I am, however, not a Novalin user so all my knowledge is from reading and hearing other's stories, not direct experience. I don't think we have any experienced Novalin users around here at present).
Click to expand...

I didnt even know about ketones until I came here. I'll start testing for those as well though. Im going to ask my vet about other insulin options at our next appointment and also to do a side by side comparison of our meters and show him the readings I'm recording and see what he thinks
 
I’m confused too, but I don’t think it’s the meter because it’s been consistent. I also don’t know much about Novolin but I’d think you’re due for a dose increase because even his low numbers are still pretty high. And I use a human meter not a pet meter. I know pet meter’s numbers are higher than human meters. Are you considering switching insulin any time soon?
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I’m confused too, but I don’t think it’s the meter because it’s been consistent. I also don’t know much about Novolin but I’d think you’re due for a dose increase because even his low numbers are still pretty high. And I use a human meter not a pet meter. I know pet meter’s numbers are higher than human meters. Are you considering switching insulin any time soon?
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I'm thinking his numbers got high because he got sick but if they dont start to go down tomorrow then maybe. He's already at 2 units so it scares me to increase it. :nailbiting:
I'm going to ask the vet at our next appointment about possibly switching insulin
 
Here is the link https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6

Alot of members use this , I use it myself you can buy it on line from Vitacost
Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules
It's 17.99 just be sure this is the one you buy
The only difference is the Zobaline has 200 mcgs of folic acid
So I buy the folic acid at the supermarket and crush it up and add it to the B-12
If you can't find the 200 mcg get the 400 mcg and cut it in half and crush it up
The Vitacost brand is a capsule so just open it and pour the powder on the wet food and I always add some water to the wet food.
Has no taste, no need to crush it up
The Zobaline is 33.99 for 60 pills, too expensive
I saw a big improvement I'd say 3 months, could be sooner. One capsule a day.
Once you get your kitty better regulated the B-12 methyl will help


Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules

  • SKU #: 835003001804
  • Shipping Weight: 0.23 lb
  • Servings: 100
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here is the link https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6

Alot of members use this , I use it myself you can buy it on line from Vitacost
Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules
It's 17.99 just be sure this is the one you buy
The only difference is the Zobaline has 200 mcgs of folic acid
So I buy the folic acid at the supermarket and crush it up and add it to the B-12
If you can't find the 200 mcg get the 400 mcg and cut it in half and crush it up
The Vitacost brand is a capsule so just open it and pour the powder on the wet food
Has no taste, no need to crush it up
The Zobaline is 33.99 for 60 pills, too expensive
I saw a big improvement I'd say 3 months, could be sooner. One capsule a day.
Once you get your kitty better regulated the B-12 methyl will help


Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules

  • SKU #: 835003001804
  • Shipping Weight: 0.23 lb
  • Servings: 100
Click to expand...
Thank you Diane!
 
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