I don't know where to start

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Wallys

Member Since 2020
Dear Forum,
Thank you for being here. Wally is my male 15 year old tabby who was diagnosed with diabetes on October 6th. The vet prescribed one unit of prozinc 40 twice a day. Wally and his brother Beaver had been sharing one can of wet food in the morning and another at night, with bottomless dry food available. The vet told me to look at the BalanceIt website to homemake food.
I took away the dry food, ordered the BalanceIT supplements, and tried one of the recipes. Both cats refused it.
When I asked the vet how to monitor the glucose levels, I received no response so I changed vets last week.
On Wednesday, October 28, the new vet did an xray that showed a lot of gas, a lot of poop, a tumor on the lung, and fluid below the abdomen. He extracted some of the fluid and asked if I wanted to send it in to check for cancer. Since cancer treatment isn't an option, I didn't see any point in getting a verification, so I said no.
He had me leave Wally there for a glucose curve, though Wally had been given an injection that morning. He also hydrated Wally. He told me not to inject that night and bring Wally in for a glucose test Thursday morning.
When we got home, Wally had a few episodes of violent vomiting, with only small amounts of foam coming out.
When I took Wally in for the test on Thursday, I asked if I should do something to get Wally to poop. He stuck in a rectal thermometer and the poop he extracted seemed liquid enough to indicate no constipation.
On Saturday night the vet called with the results that I didn't write down but I think was in the 2 hundreds. He told me to bring Wally in today for a curve without insulin.
The thing is, Wally is no longer eating, he isn't drinking, and he hasn't pooped in days. This morning his gate suggests neuropathy. He is going down fast. I didn't think a day in the vets office testing glucose levels was the most urgent thing to do and I lost confidence in the vet.
So what do I do first? I've already tried two flavors of hairball medicine to increase the poopage flow. I mixed it with his food and he refused to eat it. Should I try force feeding that? Or should I try force feeding food?
The vet gave me diuretic pills to reduce the fluid in the abdomen. I haven't given Wally any yet because it doesn't make sense to me to give a diuretic to a cat who won't drink water.
Poor Wally. So many changes. We are all completely traumatized. I hope somebody can give me some direction here on what to do today. I promise to post a profile and start an chart and everything else. I just need to save his life today.
Thanks so much,
Susan
 
WELCOME TO FDMB Wally and his buddy! We're glad you found us. I does sound like Wally needs to see a vet. Did they mention anything about ketones?
I'm not familiar with Wallys issues. I feel better having
@Critter Mom
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@tiffmaxee
come help.

You've landed in a safe place for Wally (LOVE the names btw) We strive to help anyone who finds these pages.We'll get you some help.
this is the best site to learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes.

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY. :bighug:

Hold on for more replies!
jeanne
 
Hi Susan,

He stuck in a rectal thermometer and the poop he extracted seemed liquid enough to indicate no constipation.
If he didn't palpate the abdomen then the above is not enough to determine whether a cat is constipated because more liquid faeces can sometimes make its way around a 'stuck' stool.

If Wally is badly constipated that will make him not want to eat.

When we got home, Wally had a few episodes of violent vomiting, with only small amounts of foam coming out.
When this happened had Wally been without food for several hours?

My best advice to you is to get Wally to a vet ASAP - a new vet if necessary - and ask them to:

- do a thorough exam to see if he's constipated (and give appropriate treatment if he is).

- run a Snap fPL test to check whether he might be having a flare of pancreatitis.

- test him immediately for ketones (if present they need to be flushed out urgently to prevent diabetic ketoacidosis, a dangerous but treatable complication of diabetes).

- check potassium levels (low levels are another possible cause of a wobbly gait).

If Wally's currently a bit dehydrated that would also affect his interest in food.

All of the above are common causes of inappetence and vomiting but you'd need the vet to do some basic urine and blood work to see whether any of the above might be in play.

Provided there's no constipation or if there is but it is successfully treated then anti-nausea and appetite stimulants can help a queasy kitty to start eating again. Here is a very helpful resource:

IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

While the above has its main focus as pancreatitis, the treatments for nausea (e.g. Cerenia and ondansetron) and for appetite stimulation are applicable across a number of conditions where these symptoms are present. It's also a very good document to bring to the vets with you so that you can discuss the treatments and make sure Wally gets appropriate support to help him eat again.

Diabetes can affect gut motility. In addition to the anti-nausea and appetite meds, sometimes a few days' treatment with prokinetic medicine metoclopramide can help get things moving better but don't let a vet tell you that metoclopramide alone is sufficient to treat cat nausea: it isn't. It is thought that cats don't have many of the receptors it targets (see the IDEXX document). Cerenia and ondansetron are needed to manage nausea. Appetite stimulants won't work properly if there is untreated nausea present.

Question:

Can you confirm whether Wally is currently receiving his insulin (it's not clear from your opening post).


Mogs
.
 
Last edited:
Mogs, thank you so much for your swift reply! The second vet reduced his insulin to one unit in the AM. Figuring that he wouldn't be eating today, we gave a very small unit this AM.

Dear Forum,
Thank you for being here. Wally is my male 15 year old tabby who was diagnosed with diabetes on October 6th. The vet prescribed one unit of prozinc 40 twice a day. Wally and his brother Beaver had been sharing one can of wet food in the morning and another at night, with bottomless dry food available. The vet told me to look at the BalanceIt website to homemake food.
I took away the dry food, ordered the BalanceIT supplements, and tried one of the recipes. Both cats refused it.
When I asked the vet how to monitor the glucose levels, I received no response so I changed vets last week.
On Wednesday, October 28, the new vet did an xray that showed a lot of gas, a lot of poop, a tumor on the lung, and fluid below the abdomen. He extracted some of the fluid and asked if I wanted to send it in to check for cancer. Since cancer treatment isn't an option, I didn't see any point in getting a verification, so I said no.
He had me leave Wally there for a glucose curve, though Wally had been given an injection that morning. He also hydrated Wally. He told me not to inject that night and bring Wally in for a glucose test Thursday morning.
When we got home, Wally had a few episodes of violent vomiting, with only small amounts of foam coming out.
When I took Wally in for the test on Thursday, I asked if I should do something to get Wally to poop. He stuck in a rectal thermometer and the poop he extracted seemed liquid enough to indicate no constipation.
On Saturday night the vet called with the results that I didn't write down but I think was in the 2 hundreds. He told me to bring Wally in today for a curve without insulin.
The thing is, Wally is no longer eating, he isn't drinking, and he hasn't pooped in days. This morning his gate suggests neuropathy. He is going down fast. I didn't think a day in the vets office testing glucose levels was the most urgent thing to do and I lost confidence in the vet.
So what do I do first? I've already tried two flavors of hairball medicine to increase the poopage flow. I mixed it with his food and he refused to eat it. Should I try force feeding that? Or should I try force feeding food?
The vet gave me diuretic pills to reduce the fluid in the abdomen. I haven't given Wally any yet because it doesn't make sense to me to give a diuretic to a cat who won't drink water.
Poor Wally. So many changes. We are all completely traumatized. I hope somebody can give me some direction here on what to do today. I promise to post a profile and start an chart and everything else. I just need to save his life today.
Thanks so much,
Susan
Dear Forum,
Thank you for being here. Wally is my male 15 year old tabby who was diagnosed with diabetes on October 6th. The vet prescribed one unit of prozinc 40 twice a day. Wally and his brother Beaver had been sharing one can of wet food in the morning and another at night, with bottomless dry food available. The vet told me to look at the BalanceIt website to homemake food.
I took away the dry food, ordered the BalanceIT supplements, and tried one of the recipes. Both cats refused it.
When I asked the vet how to monitor the glucose levels, I received no response so I changed vets last week.
On Wednesday, October 28, the new vet did an xray that showed a lot of gas, a lot of poop, a tumor on the lung, and fluid below the abdomen. He extracted some of the fluid and asked if I wanted to send it in to check for cancer. Since cancer treatment isn't an option, I didn't see any point in getting a verification, so I said no.
He had me leave Wally there for a glucose curve, though Wally had been given an injection that morning. He also hydrated Wally. He told me not to inject that night and bring Wally in for a glucose test Thursday morning.
When we got home, Wally had a few episodes of violent vomiting, with only small amounts of foam coming out.
When I took Wally in for the test on Thursday, I asked if I should do something to get Wally to poop. He stuck in a rectal thermometer and the poop he extracted seemed liquid enough to indicate no constipation.
On Saturday night the vet called with the results that I didn't write down but I think was in the 2 hundreds. He told me to bring Wally in today for a curve without insulin.
The thing is, Wally is no longer eating, he isn't drinking, and he hasn't pooped in days. This morning his gate suggests neuropathy. He is going down fast. I didn't think a day in the vets office testing glucose levels was the most urgent thing to do and I lost confidence in the vet.
So what do I do first? I've already tried two flavors of hairball medicine to increase the poopage flow. I mixed it with his food and he refused to eat it. Should I try force feeding that? Or should I try force feeding food?
The vet gave me diuretic pills to reduce the fluid in the abdomen. I haven't given Wally any yet because it doesn't make sense to me to give a diuretic to a cat who won't drink water.
Poor Wally. So many changes. We are all completely traumatized. I hope somebody can give me some direction here on what to do today. I promise to post a profile and start an chart and everything else. I just need to save his life today.
Thanks so much,
Susan
Hi Susan,


If he didn't palpate the abdomen then the above is not enough to determine whether a cat is constipated because more liquid faeces can sometimes make its way around a 'stuck' stool.

If Wally is badly constipated that will make him not want to eat.


When this happened had Wally been without food for several hours?

My best advice to you is to get Wally to a vet ASAP - a new vet if necessary - and ask them to:

- do a thorough exam to see if he's constipated (and give appropriate treatment if he is).

- run a Snap fPL test to check whether he might be having a flare of pancreatitis.

- test him immediately for ketones (if present they need to be flushed out urgently to prevent diabetic ketoacidosis, a dangerous but treatable complication of diabetes).

- check potassium levels (low levels are another possible cause of a wobbly gait).

If Wally's currently a bit dehydrated that would also affect his interest in food.

All of the above are common causes of inappetence and vomiting but you'd need the vet to do some basic urine and blood work to see whether any of the above might be in play.

Provided there's no constipation or if there is but it is successfully treated then anti-nausea and appetite stimulants can help a queasy kitty to start eating again. Here is a very helpful resource:

IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

While the above has its main focus as pancreatitis, the treatments for nausea (e.g. Cerenia and ondansetron) and for appetite stimulation are applicable across a number of conditions where these symptoms are present. It's also a very good document to bring to the vets with you so that you can discuss the treatments and make sure Wally gets appropriate support to help him eat again.

Diabetes can affect gut motility. In addition to the anti-nausea and appetite meds, sometimes a few days' treatment with prokinetic medicine metoclopramide can help get things moving better but don't let a vet tell you that metoclopramide alone is sufficient to treat nausea. It is thought that cats don't have many of the receptors it targets (see the IDEXX document). Cerenia and ondansetron are needed to manage nausea. Appetite stimulants won't work properly if there is untreated nausea present.

Question:

Can you confirm whether Wally is currently receiving his insulin (it's not clear from your opening post).


Mogs
.
Hi Susan,


If he didn't palpate the abdomen then the above is not enough to determine whether a cat is constipated because more liquid faeces can sometimes make its way around a 'stuck' stool.

If Wally is badly constipated that will make him not want to eat.


When this happened had Wally been without food for several hours?

My best advice to you is to get Wally to a vet ASAP - a new vet if necessary - and ask them to:

- do a thorough exam to see if he's constipated (and give appropriate treatment if he is).

- run a Snap fPL test to check whether he might be having a flare of pancreatitis.

- test him immediately for ketones (if present they need to be flushed out urgently to prevent diabetic ketoacidosis, a dangerous but treatable complication of diabetes).

- check potassium levels (low levels are another possible cause of a wobbly gait).

If Wally's currently a bit dehydrated that would also affect his interest in food.

All of the above are common causes of inappetence and vomiting but you'd need the vet to do some basic urine and blood work to see whether any of the above might be in play.

Provided there's no constipation or if there is but it is successfully treated then anti-nausea and appetite stimulants can help a queasy kitty to start eating again. Here is a very helpful resource:

IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

While the above has its main focus as pancreatitis, the treatments for nausea (e.g. Cerenia and ondansetron) and for appetite stimulation are applicable across a number of conditions where these symptoms are present. It's also a very good document to bring to the vets with you so that you can discuss the treatments and make sure Wally gets appropriate support to help him eat again.

Diabetes can affect gut motility. In addition to the anti-nausea and appetite meds, sometimes a few days' treatment with prokinetic medicine metoclopramide can help get things moving better but don't let a vet tell you that metoclopramide alone is sufficient to treat nausea. It is thought that cats don't have many of the receptors it targets (see the IDEXX document). Cerenia and ondansetron are needed to manage nausea. Appetite stimulants won't work properly if there is untreated nausea present.

Question:

Can you confirm whether Wally is currently receiving his insulin (it's not clear from your opening post).


Mogs
.
 
If Wally's not eating and not getting much insulin then it is critical that you find out his ketone status as a matter of urgency (not enough food + not enough insulin + infection/inflammation or other systemic stressor increases the risk of DKA). I really think you need to get him to a vet urgently, if only to rule out Wally throwing ketones. At minimum you need to find a way to get him eating as soon as possible and you'll need a vet to prescribe appropriate meds for him.

Have a look at this link to see if there are any behaviours you recognise:

Nausea symptom checklist (site is for CKD but the symptoms are common for anything causing nausea in a kitty)

Are you in the US? (Asking so that I can post a list of recommended supplies for the diabetes and also something that Wally might eat.)


Mogs
.
 
Last edited:
If Wally's not eating and not getting much insulin then it is critical that you find out his ketone status as a matter of urgency (not enough food + not enough insulin + infection/inflammation or other systemic stressor increase the risk of DKA). I really think you need to get him to a vet urgently, if only to rule out that Wally's not producing ketones. At minimum you need to find a way to get him eating as soon as possible and you'll need a vet to prescribe appropriate meds for him.

Have a look at this link to see if there are any behaviours you recognise:

Nausea symptom checklist (site is for CKD but the symptoms are common for anything causing nausea in a kitty)

Are you in the US? (Asking so that I can post a list of recommended supplies for the diabetes and also something that Wally might eat.)


Mogs
.
I am in Arcadia California. If anyone has recommendations for a good vet, I'd appreciate it.
The blood test on October 6th is negative for ketones.
 
I am in Arcadia California. If anyone has recommendations for a good vet, I'd appreciate it.
The blood test on October 6th is negative for ketones.
Wally is showing a few of those nausea symptoms: vomiting foam, he used to just lick the gravy off the food; now he doesn't even do that.
 
Thanks for the additional info, Susan.

Unfortunately a clear test on 6 October doesn't help things right now. Ketones can build up within a matter of hours, hence the need to check Wally to see if he's clear of them. (Normally you'd monitor at home but, in the current situation, for safety and to get Wally appropriate treatment the best way would be to get the vet to do it ASAP.)


Mogs
.
 
He was eating grass. Now he's not getting off the couch.
The lethargy is another thing to tell the vet about, along with the fact that Wally's not drinking either (dehydration makes cats feel lousy, think 'hangover') plus the nausea behaviours you've observed. (Note: A cat can be badly nauseated even if it's only vomiting intermittently.)

I really, really think you need to get Wally to the vet ASAP to see what's at the root of the symptoms you're seeing.


Mogs
.
 
Hi Susan,

In the hope that you've got a smartphone or tablet with you, here are some recommended basic supplies you can get from Walmart (cheapest for test strips) to set you up so that you'll be able to test Wally's blood glucose (BG) and urine ketones at home:

* Relion Prime Glucometer (we can help you learn how to home test BG, plus it's a wise safety precaution to have a meter at home in case you need to check BG in an emergency).
* Strips for the Prime meter (100 strips cost less than $20).
* Lancets (26 or 28 gauge - may be labelled as suitable for 'alternate site' testing).
* Urine Ketone Test Strips. (Tips for collecting urine samples.)
* Neosporin Ointment (not the cream!) or Vaseline (makes it easier to get successful tests).

Also, some kitties who are having a hard time with food may sometimes eat cat-safe baby food even though they won't eat other foods. Here is a link to a list of cat-safe baby foods (no onions, no garlic):

Persuading Your Cat to Eat - Baby Foods and Broths

Hoping all goes OK. It would be great if you could post an update later to let us know how things are going. (((Wally)))'


Mogs
.
 
Last edited:
a tumor on the lung, and fluid below the abdomen
This is worrisome. You should have gotten that fluid analyzed. Did they take an x-ray to see that? My cat, Pogo, had tumors on his lungs and a lot of fluid in his abdomen. He wasn't eating. It was cancer. I'd rule that out before spending a lot of money on diabetic supplies.
 
Hi Susan,

In the hope that you've got a smartphone or tablet with you, here are some recommended basic supplies you can get from Walmart (cheapest for test strips) to set you up so that you'll be able to test Wally's blood glucose (BG) and urine ketones at home:

* Relion Prime Glucometer (we can help you learn how to home test BG, plus it's a wise safety precaution to have a meter at home in case you need to check BG in an emergency).
* Strips for the Prime meter (100 strips cost less than $20).
* Lancets (26 or 28 gauge - may be labelled as suitable for 'alternate site' testing).
* Urine Ketone Test Strips. (Tips for collecting urine samples.)
* Neosporin Ointment (not the cream!) or Vaseline (makes it easier to get successful tests).

Also, some kitties who are having a hard time with food may sometimes eat cat-safe baby food even though they won't eat other foods. Here is a link to a list of cat-safe baby foods (no onions, no garlic):

Persuading Your Cat to Eat - Baby Foods and Broths

Hoping all goes OK. It would be great if you could post an update later to let us know how things are going. (((Wally)))'


Mogs
.

Thanks so much for your support. First I went out and got some Fancy Feasts Classics. Wally ate a few bites with a lot of encouragement. I will be trying that again in a bit.
Next, I went back to my second vet at 2:00 PM. He palpated, but only felt a small amount of poop. He was easily able to insert the thermometer. Wally's temperature is not elevated. He tested the BG and got a 178. Wally had gotten a small unit of insulin at 7:00 am. I'll have him fast tonight so we can get a reading tomorrow with no insulin. When we did this last Thursday the 29th, Wally's BG was 265. The vet is thinking maybe Wally doesn't need insulin; that all of his troubles are due to the tumor on the lung or the suspected cancer. He's thinking this because Wally isn't thirsty. He thinks he isn't pooping because Wally isn't eating.
After reading the above article, I ordered syringes to assist with food intake.
Thanks for the hugs. I will pass them along. Susan

I'd be very grateful if you could let us know what you decide to do, Susan. We worry...

:bighug:


Mogs
.
Hi Susan,

In the hope that you've got a smartphone or tablet with you, here are some recommended basic supplies you can get from Walmart (cheapest for test strips) to set you up so that you'll be able to test Wally's blood glucose (BG) and urine ketones at home:

* Relion Prime Glucometer (we can help you learn how to home test BG, plus it's a wise safety precaution to have a meter at home in case you need to check BG in an emergency).
* Strips for the Prime meter (100 strips cost less than $20).
* Lancets (26 or 28 gauge - may be labelled as suitable for 'alternate site' testing).
* Urine Ketone Test Strips. (Tips for collecting urine samples.)
* Neosporin Ointment (not the cream!) or Vaseline (makes it easier to get successful tests).

Also, some kitties who are having a hard time with food may sometimes eat cat-safe baby food even though they won't eat other foods. Here is a link to a list of cat-safe baby foods (no onions, no garlic):

Persuading Your Cat to Eat - Baby Foods and Broths

Hoping all goes OK. It would be great if you could post an update later to let us know how things are going. (((Wally)))'


Mogs
.
 
This is worrisome. You should have gotten that fluid analyzed. Did they take an x-ray to see that?
Susan already gave information about this in her opening post, viz:

On Wednesday, October 28, the new vet did an xray that showed a lot of gas, a lot of poop, a tumor on the lung, and fluid below the abdomen. He extracted some of the fluid and asked if I wanted to send it in to check for cancer. Since cancer treatment isn't an option, I didn't see any point in getting a verification, so I said no.


Mogs
.
 
No, they said it had spread all over his lungs. He was only 7 years old. He had stopped eating and was getting thin, but the diagnosis was a complete shock to me and I had to put him to sleep the next day. Several months earlier, he had a lump on his lip that I had surgically removed and when they asked me if I wanted to get it biopsied, I said no. They drew out quite a lot of liquid from his belly and I wanted one last night with him. He was is so much pain, I had a vet come to the house to euthanize him the next morning. I made clay paw prints which I made into a necklace. I buried him outside my bedroom window and lit a candle for him. Later, I read that sometimes lumps on the lips indicate cancer.
 
No, they said it had spread all over his lungs. He was only 7 years old. He had stopped eating and was getting thin, but the diagnosis was a complete shock to me and I had to put him to sleep the next day. Several months earlier, he had a lump on his lip that I had surgically removed and when they asked me if I wanted to get it biopsied, I said no. They drew out quite a lot of liquid from his belly and I wanted one last night with him. He was is so much pain, I had a vet come to the house to euthanize him the next morning. I made clay paw prints which I made into a necklace. I buried him outside my bedroom window and lit a candle for him. Later, I read that sometimes lumps on the lips indicate cancer.
Only seven. You got robbed. What a lucky kitty to have such a dedicated human. What a lovely tribute to wear his paw prints.
 
How's Wally doing today, Susan?

(((Wally)))


Mogs
.
The vet did the fasting BG this morning and the number was 250; up from yesterday. I left Wally there for the day to be monitored.
I asked for the cancer test at your suggestions.
Hopefully they can jump start his eating again. They will probably hydrate.
My feeding syringes just arrived from Amazon.
Hang in there Wally!
 
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