New in Town, kinda hard case

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Mermelada & Andrea

Mermelada & Andrea

Member Since 2020
Hi! I have been reading a lot of this forum since my baby got his diabetes diagnose the past month, I have to say thank you so much for all the support and information you have here.

My babys name is Mermelada we are from mexico, (sorry for my bad english) he's 6 y/o and got his diagnose almost a month ago. He also has food allergies or intolerance and maybe stress related, (had been with 3 different vets and differents opinions) in 2019-20, the first vet gave him shots of cortisone, once a month (Nov,Dec,Jan,March,Jul) since all his scratch and allergies problems allways came back went to a different vet, a Derm specialist, but only got worse, his fur started to fall in his legs and belly, the new diet and treatment made him lose so much weight in just one month (almost 2kilos or 4.4 lb), depression, started to drink a lot and pee a lot, by that time I thought he could have some cushing problems due to the cortisone but i don't know since he looks good and with minor syntoms. they did a blood and urine test showing his high glucose. Blood was 433 mg/dl and urine glucose 91 g/L they started a curve but couldn't get his dose, that vets turned to be really rude and never listen to my researchs or opinions and Merme got worst since they started to treat him, so had to go to another vet, at that time he was on Glargine insulin 1.5U x2 a day, but it doesn't seems to work, he is always at so high numbers (400-500-600+) now he is on 3U x2 and still having those numbers, my concern is that now this vet is raising the dose so much, today he told me to give him 4U so this night was his first shot with that.

How do you see my journey at this time? Do you think the cortisone has something to do with his no response to the insulin?, also the second Dermvet thought of pancreatitis, he ran a blood test that gave soooo crazy high number of amylase (1189 U/L) but sound kinda odd to all since he is fine, looks healthy, eats well, plays, nice fur, (just two bald spots in his back legs and belly due to his allergies or stress..) almost one week later the actual vet got another blood test and he said it was fine, he got 613 U/L of amylase, but i don't know, can't feel peace, is a right number?

He's also eating a high carb food due to his allergie (Royal Canin Hydrolized dry) and I know this can be a problem too

Since we aren't improving i'm starting to feel lost
 
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Hi Andrea, welcome to the best place you never wanted to be. I’m sorry you have been having so many issues with your gorgeous Mermelada.

Are you home testing Mermelada’s blood glucose or just getting tests at the vet? One of the problems with just getting tests done at the vet is that cats are often stressed so their numbers go higher. Another problem is that the vet may do the tests on a day the cat is ‘bouncing’ therefore there will be high numbers all day but on another day the numbers might be lower. Testing from home helps you to keep your cat safe and let’s you make decisions about the insulin dose with much better knowledge. Most people use a glucometer for humans, you don’t need to get the special one for pets that is much more expensive.

High carb food will likely lead to higher doses of insulin but you need to balance Mermelada’s problems. If that’s what he needs to eat to keep his allergies at bay then that’s what he needs to eat. Though other people that have cats with allergies might be able to suggest some alternatives for you to try.

Cortisone use can lead to diabetes easily, and/or less commonly Cushings which will then lead to diabetes. I’m not sure if 5 injections over 5 months is enough to cause Cushings. Cats with Cushings will often need larger doses of insulin but you’re not there yet - we usually suggest considering high dose conditions if the cat goes past 6U 2 times per day.

We would not recommend increasing the dose by a whole unit at a time as you may miss the best dose for the cat. Increases are usually done by .25U, or sometimes .5U depending on the circumstances.

Are you testing for ketones? This is something to be careful about when the cat is staying in high numbers. You can get human test strips from the chemist/pharmacy called ketodiastix which you can dip in Mermelada’s pee to test for ketones, and if you aren’t testing the blood glucose at home yet you can get an idea of the sugar levels too.

I am very glad you found us and I’m sure we’ll be able to help you and Mermelada, keep asking all the questions you want to.

Also, your English is very good :cat:
 
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Have you tried either single protein foods or a raw food diet for the food allergies? You may have to try different foods to find out what ingredient triggers the allergy. I had a dog that had food allergies and that is what I had to do for her. Look for canned food ingredients that have a single protein and no grains or fillers. Or you could try making your own food.
 
WELCOME TO FDMB! The best place in the world to learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes!
We are dedicated to doing everything we can to help anyone who finds these pages.
We would like for you toread here:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
Just to get acquainted with how this whole machine runs. (PLEASE pay particular attention to the section about Profiles and Signatures)

Youve landed in a safe place for Mermelada.
WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

Theres a ton of information here with good people to help you navigate it all We look forward to getting to know you both!
jeanne
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Hi Andrea, welcome to the best place you never wanted to be. I’m sorry you have been having so many issues with your gorgeous Mermelada.

Are you home testing Mermelada’s blood glucose or just getting tests at the vet? One of the problems with just getting tests done at the vet is that cats are often stressed so their numbers go higher. Another problem is that the vet may do the tests on a day the cat is ‘bouncing’ therefore there will be high numbers all day but on another day the numbers might be lower. Testing from home helps you to keep your cat safe and let’s you make decisions about the insulin dose with much better knowledge. Most people use a glucometer for humans, you don’t need to get the special one for pets that is much more expensive.

High carb food will likely lead to higher doses of insulin but you need to balance Mermelada’s problems. If that’s what he needs to eat to keep his allergies at bay then that’s what he needs to eat. Though other people that have cats with allergies might be able to suggest some alternatives for you to try.

Cortisone use can lead to diabetes easily, and/or less commonly Cushings which will then lead to diabetes. I’m not sure if 5 injections over 5 months is enough to cause Cushings. Cats with Cushings will often need larger doses of insulin but you’re not there yet - we usually suggest considering high dose conditions if the cat goes past 6U 2 times per day.

We would not recommend increasing the dose by a whole unit at a time as you may miss the best dose for the cat. Increases are usually done by .25U, or sometimes .5U depending on the circumstances.

Are you testing for ketones? This is something to be careful about when the cat is staying in high numbers. You can get human test strips from the chemist/pharmacy called ketodiastix which you can dip in Mermelada’s pee to test for ketones, and if you aren’t testing the blood glucose at home yet you can get an idea of the sugar levels too.

I am very glad you found us and I’m sure we’ll be able to help you and Mermelada, keep asking all the questions you want to.

Also, your English is very good :cat:
Click to expand...

Hiii, thank you so much to all the team, yes I use a human glucometer and also i'm testing in home, but the vet told me to not doing so much because it could make him stress, so right now im doing it before every shot and close to the nadir time like +5 or +6,

I'm thinking about having other options for food, but here I just found the instinct turkey wet for a maybe, but it's so expensive that i just cryed, for now we are stuck with te RC Hydrolized, also thinking about making him his food but some vets told me is a bad option, I don't know what to believe now, vets in my town are difficult and I talked with so many different ideas

the ketodiastix are on my list to buy! hope I can find here

for now we are at 4U but I don't know if it is the best dose for him, still having high numbers, I uploaded my Spreadsheet for you to see, i'm starting to think that it could be a problem with the insulin itself, since I traveled to vets 3 times with it, because it seems so weird that his levels just don't go down (put it on ice but here is so hot and a lot of shaky streets and movement)
 
Lisa and Witn (GA) said:
Have you tried either single protein foods or a raw food diet for the food allergies? You may have to try different foods to find out what ingredient triggers the allergy. I had a dog that had food allergies and that is what I had to do for her. Look for canned food ingredients that have a single protein and no grains or fillers. Or you could try making your own food.
Click to expand...

yes I'm thinking about the Instinct turkey wet, but is so expensive to me right now, I saw few things about making his food but vets here have different opinions about it so I don't know if that could be an option, until I can afford the instinct one in future
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
WELCOME TO FDMB! The best place in the world to learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes!
We are dedicated to doing everything we can to help anyone who finds these pages.
We would like for you toread here:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
Just to get acquainted with how this whole machine runs. (PLEASE pay particular attention to the section about Profiles and Signatures)

Youve landed in a safe place for Mermelada.
WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

Theres a ton of information here with good people to help you navigate it all We look forward to getting to know you both!
jeanne
Click to expand...

Thank you so much!!! I started my spreadsheet found it suuuuper usefull!! thank you so so much! I'll be updating <3
 
Andrea Sanz said:
yes I'm thinking about the Instinct turkey wet, but is so expensive to me right now, I saw few things about making his food but vets here have different opinions about it so I don't know if that could be an option, until I can afford the instinct one in future
Click to expand...
Tagging
@Veronica & Babu-chiri
who also lives in Mexico. She makes her own food and also put together this food chart.
 
Excellent job getting the spreadsheet set up :) and yikes! Mermelada’s dose has been raised way too quickly, especially given that he was showing some green and blue numbers at much lower doses and there are quite a few cycles without tests that could be hiding some low numbers. I am really concerned that the dose should be dropped back immediately but I’m not sure by how much. How much does mermelada weigh? I’m tagging in some reinforcements for this one. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko
 
Hello and welcome. It looks like Mermelada's dose is both being raised by too much at once, and too quickly. Lantus is a depot insulin, and with our dosing methods here, we shoot the same dose at least six cycles (3 days), and sometimes longer depending on the blood sugar numbers you are getting. Since you are feeding higher carb food, we would actually stay at the same dose for 7 days before increasing. We raise the dose by either 0.25 or 0.5 units at once. Cats are sensitive to very small changes in dose.

It's also possible the high numbers you are seeing are the result of a phenomenon we call bouncing. This is the definition: Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Steroids (cortisone) will raise his blood sugar for a while, until it wears off. How long ago was his last cortisone shot?
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Excellent job getting the spreadsheet set up :) and yikes! Mermelada’s dose has been raised way too quickly, especially given that he was showing some green and blue numbers at much lower doses and there are quite a few cycles without tests that could be hiding some low numbers. I am really concerned that the dose should be dropped back immediately but I’m not sure by how much. How much does mermelada weigh? I’m tagging in some reinforcements for this one. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko
Click to expand...

Before we know about his diabetes (and kinda sure he wasn't at that time), his weight was almost 7 kg or 15 lb, the DermVet gave him a new tratment and in just a month or less he lose almost 2 kg, right now he got a little more weight since that horrible expierence with that vet he is 5.7 kg or 12.5 lb

And just notice that blue and green records thanks to the spreadsheet that i'm in love now haha, but now I'm thinking the same, that it could be a high dose for him, but still don't getting anything below 300..
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome. It looks like Mermelada's dose is both being raised by too much at once, and too quickly. Lantus is a depot insulin, and with our dosing methods here, we shoot the same dose at least six cycles (3 days), and sometimes longer depending on the blood sugar numbers you are getting. Since you are feeding higher carb food, we would actually stay at the same dose for 7 days before increasing. We raise the dose by either 0.25 or 0.5 units at once. Cats are sensitive to very small changes in dose.

It's also possible the high numbers you are seeing are the result of a phenomenon we call bouncing. This is the definition: Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Steroids (cortisone) will raise his blood sugar for a while, until it wears off. How long ago was his last cortisone shot?
Click to expand...

Omg, and that high dose is worring me since the vet just want to go high with that, he told me he thinks that he could reach a 5 or 6 U, I don't want to raise anymore till I'm super sure about it, and thats why I thought could talk with you all guys, I'm very happy to read all of you, thank you so much

His last cortisone shot was July 22th 2020

Do you all think I should stay with the 4U? Or go less?
 
Also, I don't know but since he return from the curve with the DermVet, like 3 or 4 days after, he started to have some loose stool, it was super subtle, but then started to look more like diahrrea, he's now on antibiotics too (had bacillus, right to say?), yesterday was his 3thrd shot at the actual vet o_O and maybe he will need one more (the vet told me to return if he still have diahrrea and yep..) I don't know if all this treatment, stress and many many vet apointments, all this caos moving him and new rutines can be also triggering those high numbers
 
There are some very important links at the top of this thread https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/ to documents about what you should have on hand in case of Hypoglycemia and how to treat low numbers. Save them and have them on hand so you know what to do should you find Mermelada drops too low. Of course you can also post for help if this happens - the lantus/levemir forum is the busiest and has the people most experienced with glargine (which is also called lantus) but you want to start treating immediately and also just in case no one is around you need to know what to do.

You are very welcome to join the group there too (I know you found it because I saw you posting some help with syringes to a member, so awesome for you to also be able to help someone else so soon :)) there are some ‘stickies’ (these are information threads stuck to the top of the forum) that will help you with how to post and all sorts of other useful information (the link above is to one of them). Most people, especially when they are starting out, post their numbers daily and then everyone gets to know the cat which helps you to get advice specific to your cat very quickly, and perhaps they see a problem you may have missed.

I had a bit of a heart attack when I first saw the dosing in Mermelada’s spreadsheet, but he seems to be taking the 4U - so far. I am torn between dropping back to say 3U, where he got the yellow on the morning of 10/28 and we don’t know how low he was the night before and, now that you’re there, carrying on with the 4U unless he proves it’s too much. Hopefully some others will add their thoughts soon.

Please continue getting a mid cycle test in every cycle right now. You don’t want to chance missing getting a test in the cycle he drops low when he could be getting too much insulin.
 
Serryn asked me to pop by. I agree with everything Wendy said. Merme could be bouncing but we don’t know because you have a few cycles where there are no BGs other than the preshots.

My suggestion would be to hold this current dose for seven days and be sure you get a couple tests during the a.m. cycle in addition to the AMPS. You can mix it up so get a +2 and +6 one day, a +3 and +7 another, etc. At night besides the PMPS, if you can get a +2 and before bed, that would be helpful and help us catch her if she’s going low anywhere.

We are glad you found us!

edited to add: there is no significance to the increased amylase. A long time ago, it was thought it could be used in cats to diagnose pancreatitis, but it hasn’t been in a long time. Dogs, yes; cats, no.

Here’s some info on pancreatitis (click on the blue for the link).
 
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One caveat to the suggestion about holding his dose for 7 days, if you see a number under 90 in those 7 days, you will reduce the dose. Those tests Marje suggests will tell you if the dose is too much or too little.

If you want to learn a little bit more about Feline Cushings, one of our members attached a recent article to a post here. The article includes quite a few pictures too. We've seen a Cushings cat here on just around 3 units of insulin, but his Cushings was caused by a benign pituitary tumour. Not all Cushings cats are diabetic either.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
There are some very important links at the top of this thread https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/ to documents about what you should have on hand in case of Hypoglycemia and how to treat low numbers. Save them and have them on hand so you know what to do should you find Mermelada drops too low. Of course you can also post for help if this happens - the lantus/levemir forum is the busiest and has the people most experienced with glargine (which is also called lantus) but you want to start treating immediately and also just in case no one is around you need to know what to do.

You are very welcome to join the group there too (I know you found it because I saw you posting some help with syringes to a member, so awesome for you to also be able to help someone else so soon :)) there are some ‘stickies’ (these are information threads stuck to the top of the forum) that will help you with how to post and all sorts of other useful information (the link above is to one of them). Most people, especially when they are starting out, post their numbers daily and then everyone gets to know the cat which helps you to get advice specific to your cat very quickly, and perhaps they see a problem you may have missed.

I had a bit of a heart attack when I first saw the dosing in Mermelada’s spreadsheet, but he seems to be taking the 4U - so far. I am torn between dropping back to say 3U, where he got the yellow on the morning of 10/28 and we don’t know how low he was the night before and, now that you’re there, carrying on with the 4U unless he proves it’s too much. Hopefully some others will add their thoughts soon.

Please continue getting a mid cycle test in every cycle right now. You don’t want to chance missing getting a test in the cycle he drops low when he could be getting too much insulin.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! I actually have all my suplies for a hypo emergency thanks to this beautiful forum <3 I'll be learning more and doing my best for Mermelada and this big family
For now we are staying at 4U since his body seems to doesen't even care about the insulin :(

Extra thanks to @Marje and Gracie and @Wendy&Neko
I'll be doing more blood test during those hours today +2 and +6 and tomorrow +3 and +7
Thank you for the links about pancreatitis and cushing I'll be checking up
 
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Andrea Sanz said:
Thank you so much! I actually have all my suplies for a hypo emergency thanks to this beautiful forum <3 I'll be learning more and doing my best for Mermelada and this big family
For now we are staying at 4U since his body seems to doesen't even care about the insulin :(

Extra thanks to @Marje and Gracie and @Wendy&Neko
I'll be doing more blood test during those hours today +2 and +6 and tomorrow +3 and +7
Thank you for the links about pancreatitis and cushing I'll be checking up
Click to expand...
You’re welcome! Paws crossed!
 
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