BG 648: Shoot without meal?!

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alayna

alayna

Member Since 2019
Post-DKA, hasn't eaten dinner but just stuck with an AlphaTrak and got 648. I shoot the 3 units vetsulin NOW, right? Then try to feed later? New at this.
 
Either you Feed First, then give insulin direct after eaten.
Or you Give insulin First and eat direct after

You have to learn how Frankie works and how he wants it around all that.
 
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See, they don't tell us upfront they don't like our Cuisinnes. Instead thinking they get better food at the vets.

Do you know what was on the menue at the vet's which Frankie ate?
 
Vetsulin hits very fast. We say that you should feed at least 30 minutes before the shot. That’s a pretty high number, but 3 units is also a lot. Can you test him again at +2? And can you syringe feed him? What instructions did they give you if he’s not eating at home?

edited to say that insulins you can safely shoot and feed later are Lantus and prozync. Vetsulin is not one of them because, again, how fast it hits. Please get that +2 and post here
 
And alayna, you want to post the link to your previous thread when you start the new one so the members helping can see all about his hospitalization, meds he’s on, etc
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Vetsulin hits very fast. We say that you should feed at least 30 minutes before the shot. That’s a pretty high number, but 3 units is also a lot. Can you test him again at +2? And can you syringe feed him? What instructions did they give you if he’s not eating at home?
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I administered 3 units of vetsulin, I just finished syringe feeding an entire 3 oz can of pate and I'm planning on checking BG every hour.
 
alayna said:
Right. I really hope the prozinc comes in tomorrow, I do NOT like having him on a different insulin than I'm used to lol
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I totally get it. I’d feel the same way. Minnie was put in fast acting also for the anesthesia when they did the endoscopy and I hated it. You get wonky numbers that are not what you’re used to :nailbiting:

Hope it comes too!!
 
Ann & Scatcats said:
Either you Feed First, then give insulin direct after eaten.
Or you Give insulin First and ear direct after

You have to learn how Frankie works and how he wants it around all that.,
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The information in the post quoted above is incorrect.

As Aleluia has correctly advised upthread, a cat being treated with Vetsulin needs to be fed and then given the insulin dose 30 minutes later.

The relationship between time of feeding and time of dose administration is dictated by the insulin in use, not on some predilection of the cat. This goes for ALL insulins used to treat cats.


Mogs
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alayna said:
By +3 and +4 you mean the amount of hours after shooting, correct?
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Yep, that's right. Each insulin has a characteristic mode of action and we use the '+' notation to gauge how far along in the cycle the reading was taken. We can then relate that to when the insulin's effect is likely to be at its peak and also when the effects of the dose should start to wear off.

For Vetsulin, the typical period of peak effect is between +3 and +6 hours after the dose was administered. Blood glucose levels should start rising again after +6 but there's no guarantee that the cat will stay at safe levels until about +9 or +10, especially if BG levels are running low at nadir. Food eaten is another factor to consider and if appetite is iffy then the BG levels might stay lower for longer. (Can only offer general guidance here because Frankie has no BG history to refer to for this particular insulin.)


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Yep, that's right. Each insulin has a characteristic mode of action and we use the '+' notation to gauge how far along in the cycle the reading was taken. We can then relate that to when the insulin's effect is likely to be at its peak and also when the effects of the dose should start to wear off.

For Vetsulin, the typical period of peak effect is between +3 and +6 hours after the dose was administered. Blood glucose levels should start rising again after +6 but there's no guarantee that the cat will stay at safe levels until about +9 or +10, especially if BG levels are running low at nadir. Food eaten is another factor to consider and if appetite is iffy then the BG levels might stay lower for longer. (Can only offer general guidance here because Frankie has no BG history to refer to for this particular insulin.)


Mogs
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Frankie is at pretty high numbers so what do you suggest she does next?
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
When was the last time he ate? Can you try to feed him a bit more to slow down the drop. 193 is still very safe
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Alayna, can you hang fire till after the +4 test before syringe feeding again? If it's lower (and there's still a very wide BG level safety buffer) then it should give a better indication of safety for the rest of the cycle and also inform your feeding strategy better.


Mogs
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144 +4. I'll test again at +5, but I can try to feed a little bit now if it's needed? I am using a pet meter. He's very alert and purring, seems like his old self. I know it's getting late so I'll prob be on my own pretty soon, lol.

So to recap,
+0 648
+1 636
+2 446
+3 242
+4 144

I can't wait until he's regular :blackeye:
 
alayna said:
144 +4. I'll test again at +5, but I can try to feed a little bit now if it's needed? I am using a pet meter. He's very alert and purring, seems like his old self. I know it's getting late so I'll prob be on my own pretty soon, lol.

So to recap,
+0 648
+1 636
+2 446
+3 242
+4 144

I can't wait until he's regular :blackeye:
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He’s still dropping but also still at a safe number. Again, no need to take action, meaning hypo action, unless he falls under 68. He dropped another 100 so I’d feed him now. You don’t want to risk him dropping another 100 by +5
 
alayna said:
+ 3.5 and got 193.
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Also ^this^ test.
alayna said:
I have no issue testing every hour until he stops dropping lol, drinking coffee and watching Lord of the Rings :coffee::cat: and I'm a huge worry wart! Lol
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I approve enormously of your viewing choice, Alayna. :cool:

Glad that you're able to keep monitoring. Now we know that the rate of drop has reduced - and have a much better idea of how low this dose can take Frankie.

I'd suggest giving him a small feed now and then testing again at +5.5 to make sure the drop has bottomed out. If the +5.5 is lower then syringe some more food and check again at +6. You don't want to see numbers below about 110 on the Alphatrak.

Rough guide for rest of cycle:

1. Test.
2. If BG <150 feed small amount. Wait 30 minutes. Go back to 1.
3. If BG between 180 and 200, feed small amount. Wait up to a maximum of 60 minutes. Go back to 1.
4. If BG greater than 200, don't feed. Wait maximum of 60 minutes. Go back to 1.

Rinse and repeat until either Frankie stays above 200 for about 2 hours without food, or if numbers in successive tests start rising steeply (somewhere after +7 probably). If BG numbers are well into the 300s or above from +7 onwards then numbers should stay up as the dose will start to wane in effect. Needless to say, test until you feel confident and happy that Frankie is in safe numbers and is going to stay up.

About to sign off now. It's nearly 5am here. Say hi to Gandalf for me.:)


Mogs
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alayna said:
126 at +4.5, I gave him a few greenies which are his favorite treats and he actually accepted them. :p
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Was just about to sign off but caught this. You need to give Frankie another syringe feed and test again in 30 minutes. Don't fill him up too much because you may need to give him several small 'snacks' until you're through the period of peak effect (see my previous post).

Sorry I can't stay the whole way through the cycle with you. Wishing you both a safe and uneventful remainder of the cycle.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Was just about to sign off but caught this. You need to give Frankie another syringe feed and test again in 30 minutes. Don't fill him up too much because you may need to give him several small 'snacks' until you're through the period of peak effect (see my previous post).

Sorry I can't stay the whole way through the cycle with you. Wishing you both a safe and uneventful remainder of the cycle.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Just syringe fed about 20 mLs of tiki cat mousse. Thank you for all of your help!! We'll be just fine :-)
 
I’m signing off too, but I think the worse is over. If you need urgent help make a new thread and pick “911” from the drop down menu. Post this link on it so folks can see the progression. Hope the rest of the night is a smooth ride!
 
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