Need some advice, no insulin in 5 days

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sammi Jo and Lulu

Sammi Jo and Lulu

Member Since 2020
Hey everyone,

I have only been home testing for the last 5 days, but in those 5 days, Lulu has consistently been in the green. Her numbers have been on the lower end of normal at times and I have not felt comfortable giving insulin. Her latest reading, about 1.5 hrs after her dinner, is 66. This is using the AlphaTrak meter. I know that its technically not too low, but its right on the cusp. I'm just glad that I started home testing, as I'm sure she would be hypoglycemic at this point.

I guess my question would be, is this normal to be getting such low numbers without insulin?
 
As long as she has had no insulin, she cannot go too low or hypo. Those are great numbers. Some cats run lower than others normally. My civie, Anabelle was only 45 when I tested her. 14 days like that with no insulin and you will have a remission!
 
Hi there, I'm not familiar with how your cat was diagnosed as diabetic, I'll try and look back for your post, but in the meantime, these are perfectly healthy numbers, and absolutely do not require insulin, you've done well not giving any, Lulu doesn't appear to need it. Lower numbers are not an issue when the kitty isn't getting any insulin.
 
katiesmom said:
As long as she has had no insulin, she cannot go too low or hypo. Those are great numbers. Some cats run lower than others normally. My civie, Anabelle was only 45 when I tested her. 14 days like that with no insulin and you will have a remission!
Click to expand...
Good to know!! Thank you so much. I don’t know how I could be lucky enough to get her into remission this quickly but I’ll take it if it happens!
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Hi there, I'm not familiar with how your cat was diagnosed as diabetic, I'll try and look back for your post, but in the meantime, these are perfectly healthy numbers, and absolutely do not require insulin, you've done well not giving any, Lulu doesn't appear to need it. Lower numbers are not an issue when the kitty isn't getting any insulin.
Click to expand...
She was diagnosed during a pre dental cleaning checkup. There were no signs that she was diabetic that I had noticed. Vet immediately put her on Lantus. I shot blindly for a month an a half. I unfortunately don’t know what her numbers were before I started.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Absolutely agree.
Click to expand...
So Lulu’s numbers are still looking good, but I was hoping I could reach out again and get some advice. The last few days I have cut down to testing her just once a day. On Tuesday she had dental surgery, with 2 extractions and one partial extraction (not exactly sure what that means)The evening after her surgery she was at 78, the day after it measured 79, and this morning I measured it and it hit 120. This evening I got home after work and it’s at 117. Both after her meal. I’m still hesitant to shoot, especially since I was gone all day and wouldn’t have been able to monitor her. I have her on pain meds, and while she’s awake and eating, she’s definitely not feeling her best and is hiding most the day. Could the pain be causing the spike? At what point would I need to start her insulin again? (It’s been a full week)
 
Sammijoenglish said:
Could the pain be causing the spike?
Click to expand...
Yes.

More importantly, you want to take the BG test 2 hours before her main meal in the 12 hour cycle, like you would have done when she was still on insulin. (Except you didn't know about home testing then, so no numbers to compare with). Catch-22.
Sammijoenglish said:
There were no signs that she was diabetic that I had noticed.
Click to expand...
Well, maybe she wasn't diabetic after all, and it was the dental issues causing her BG levels to be higher.

Infection/inflammation can spike BG levels too.
Sammijoenglish said:
At what point would I need to start her insulin again? (It’s been a full week)
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with the robenacoxib, and if it can increase the BG levels.
How much longer is Lulu scheduled to be on that pain and anti-inflammatory med?
You might wait until she is off that medication, or the BG level spikes much higher, above 150, or so?
Remember, lantus is a depot type insulin, so the depot usually takes 3 days (or more) to drain.

So Lulu being off insulin since 10/22/20, is really only like her not getting insulin for 5 days.
Poor appetite can cause the BG levels to be lower too.
Has her appetite been better since the dental?
 
Deb & Wink said:
Yes.

More importantly, you want to take the BG test 2 hours before her main meal in the 12 hour cycle, like you would have done when she was still on insulin. (Except you didn't know about home testing then, so no numbers to compare with). Catch-22.

Well, maybe she wasn't diabetic after all, and it was the dental issues causing her BG levels to be higher.

Infection/inflammation can spike BG levels too.

I'm not familiar with the robenacoxib, and if it can increase the BG levels.
How much longer is Lulu scheduled to be on that pain and anti-inflammatory med?
You might wait until she is off that medication, or the BG level spikes much higher, above 150, or so?
Remember, lantus is a depot type insulin, so the depot usually takes 3 days (or more) to drain.

So Lulu being off insulin since 10/22/20, is really only like her not getting insulin for 5 days.
Poor appetite can cause the BG levels to be lower too.
Has her appetite been better since the dental?
Click to expand...
She will be taking the meds for the next 3 days. I kinda thought the same thing, wait for the numbers to spike higher or until she’s off the pain meds. Her appetite was pretty good before the dental, she was eating a full large can of wet food a day. When she got home from surgery she was ravenous, (I’m assuming since she was fasted for close to 24hours at that point) and I gave her a little more food than usual cause she kept going back to her empty bowl. She’s not ravenous anymore but definitely still eating her usual amount.
 
Hi everyone,

Merlin was recently diagnosed (a little over a month ago). Insulin therapy was delayed and then he got sick and ended up in the vet's office and is on now on ProZinc. We are at about the 2-week mark since all of that happened. After a crazy weekend on Oct 17-18, he was in and out of the vet and ER, he is now very stable. I'm wondering about remission too. He just finished a round of Clavamox to avoid diabetic infections. He was prescribed 2 units of ProZinc every 12 hours. After coming home from the ER, I noticed him dipping into the 40s one day and I pulled back to 1 unit. The last three days his numbers have been gradually getting better and better. Yesterday, I only did 0.5 unit AM and PM. Today, I haven't given him any insulin and his AMPS was 104, +3 was 83, +7 was 91, and his PMPS we just took was 99. Could he be going into remission? Could the antibiotics have done something? His first vet (the one that diagnosed the diabetes) said he had severe tooth decay. Then when I took him to our normal vet because he got so sick, their notes said his dental status looked normal. I'm confused. Would anyone mind looking at my spreadsheet linked below and giving me your thoughts?
 
Sammijoenglish said:
So Lulu’s numbers are still looking good, but I was hoping I could reach out again and get some advice. The last few days I have cut down to testing her just once a day. On Tuesday she had dental surgery, with 2 extractions and one partial extraction (not exactly sure what that means)The evening after her surgery she was at 78, the day after it measured 79, and this morning I measured it and it hit 120. This evening I got home after work and it’s at 117. Both after her meal. I’m still hesitant to shoot, especially since I was gone all day and wouldn’t have been able to monitor her. I have her on pain meds, and while she’s awake and eating, she’s definitely not feeling her best and is hiding most the day. Could the pain be causing the spike? At what point would I need to start her insulin again? (It’s been a full week)
Click to expand...

Hi Samantha, I hope Lulu recovers quickly from her dental surgery. I think my Merlin will possibly need to have that done soon as well. I am experiencing lower numbers with him also. Today was day one of no insulin. I was expecting his numbers to go up as the day went on but they haven't very much. I commented about him above hoping I could get some feedback because this thread was so similar to his situation. I hope that is ok. I'm going to keep an eye on how things unfold for you. Sending you and Lulu hugs. :bighug:
 
Kelley and Merlin said:
Hi Samantha, I hope Lulu recovers quickly from her dental surgery. I think my Merlin will possibly need to have that done soon as well. I am experiencing lower numbers with him also. Today was day one of no insulin. I was expecting his numbers to go up as the day went on but they haven't very much. I commented about him above hoping I could get some feedback because this thread was so similar to his situation. I hope that is ok. I'm going to keep an eye on how things unfold for you. Sending you and Lulu hugs. :bighug:
Click to expand...
Hi Kelley,
I don’t mind at all! We’re all here just trying to get some answers! :bighug: Here’s to hoping Merlin’s numbers stay low! Dental disease can definitely heighten BG. I can’t offer much advice, I’m extremely new to all of this. But the people here are wonderful and extremely helpful! I’ve been posting on these boards the last few weeks and I’ve always received the help I needed. I’ll keep her SS updated :)
 
Deb & Wink said:
Yes.

More importantly, you want to take the BG test 2 hours before her main meal in the 12 hour cycle, like you would have done when she was still on insulin. (Except you didn't know about home testing then, so no numbers to compare with). Catch-22.

Well, maybe she wasn't diabetic after all, and it was the dental issues causing her BG levels to be higher.

Infection/inflammation can spike BG levels too.

I'm not familiar with the robenacoxib, and if it can increase the BG levels.
How much longer is Lulu scheduled to be on that pain and anti-inflammatory med?
You might wait until she is off that medication, or the BG level spikes much higher, above 150, or so?
Remember, lantus is a depot type insulin, so the depot usually takes 3 days (or more) to drain.

So Lulu being off insulin since 10/22/20, is really only like her not getting insulin for 5 days.
Poor appetite can cause the BG levels to be lower too.
Has her appetite been better since the dental?
Click to expand...
Thank you Deb for replying to her :bighug::cat:
 
How is Lulu doing now? Personally, I would hold off on any insulin unless you see much higher numbers than that, and see them consistently. 117 & 120 are not bad at all for just having a dental and the stress of the vets.

Katie had a dental about a year ago, 8 teeth removed, which turned into a bad, bad infection, a horrible ranula under her tongue from the surgery, and a lot of pain. She couldnt eat, had too many vet visits and meds. It was a nightmare for about 3 weeks.
She was in remission before her dental, and her numbers spiked to 160 I think at one point during her recovery. I held off the insulin though and the numbers went back down on their own after her problems were resolved. Stress, pain and illness can cause the numbers to go up temporarily.
 
katiesmom said:
How is Lulu doing now? Personally, I would hold off on any insulin unless you see much higher numbers than that, and see them consistently. 117 & 120 are not bad at all for just having a dental and the stress of the vets.

Katie had a dental about a year ago, 8 teeth removed, which turned into a bad, bad infection, a horrible ranula under her tongue from the surgery, and a lot of pain. She couldnt eat, had too many vet visits and meds. It was a nightmare for about 3 weeks.
She was in remission before her dental, and her numbers spiked to 160 I think at one point during her recovery. I held off the insulin though and the numbers went back down on their own after her problems were resolved. Stress, pain and illness can cause the numbers to go up temporarily.
Click to expand...
Lulu is doing well! I haven’t checked her numbers yet this morning but I have a feeling they will be better. She finally came out from under the bed last night and is cuddling with me again, so she’s definitely feeling better.

That’s all very good to know! I’m so sorry that poor little Katie had to go through all of that! I’m happy she came through it ok :) I will report back once I get her tested.
 
Lulu is starting to feel much better! Spending less and less time under the bed. Shes not 100% yet, but she will get there. She's always been a very sensitive cat and reacts very badly to being removed from her environment. It does not surprise me at all that her numbers would reflect that. This morning she was 101, but this afternoon is at 66.
 
Sammijoenglish said:
Lulu is starting to feel much better! Spending less and less time under the bed. Shes not 100% yet, but she will get there. She's always been a very sensitive cat and reacts very badly to being removed from her environment. It does not surprise me at all that her numbers would reflect that. This morning she was 101, but this afternoon is at 66.
Click to expand...
Niiiiice! :):bighug::cool:
 
So keep testing every cycle, at your normal shot times. So we need to see a test at each AMPS and each PMPS time on the SS. Got that?

If you get a blue "pre-shot" BG, then you want to test 3-4 hours later. That will tell you if the pancreas is working and producing insulin on it's own, if the BG levels are still lower after the meal has been digested.

If green, no need to retest in that cycle.
 
Happy to see Lulu doing well.

Here are the instructions - you get to ignore the first step :D

Start the trial on the next green pre shot.

If he/she is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If he/she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If his/her number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!

Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. He/she may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.

After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give him/her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Good luck with the trial!!!

Once he/she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change his/her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh him/her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If he/she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test his/her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!

Good luck :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top