10/6 Bocephus AMPS 438 need guidance

[Wendy & Bocephus cat]

Hello we've been on Vetsulin 1.5U since 9/25 but after advice in the health forum we're switching to Lantus (picking it up today). I've been reading the sticky post and I'm so confused. I was reading the SLGL and tight sticky & my head hurts. 1. So with the Vetsulin it was test, feed, wait 30, shoot. Is it the same with Lantus?
2. Vet suggests 1U starting dose with the Lantus?? Agree or Warning
3. I put him on FF classic pate food bought all different flavors using the chart but did I misunderstand it? Is seafood flavors like cod,sole & shrimp safe to feed (I think I saw something about not feeding seafood)
4. Anything I need to know specific or special about swapping from Vetsulin to Lantus.. like a spike in readings or big drop that I'm not use to seeing or will it be a gradual thing?
Sorry if I'm all over the place.

 

[JaxBenji]

Hi Welcome! I can't give dosing advice but can help a little bit Also, I read (and re-read) the stickies ALL THE TIME Completely normal. Different parts will make sense each time you read!

For asking questions:

• I recommend using editing your Thread title and picking the ? from the drop-down - once your question is answered, you take off the ? (and remove the question text from your title). This helps people scanning the board to quickly see questions.
• The LBL board also likes to link previous threads for continuity. So tomorrow, you would link today's thread in your new thread. Here are you first two posts from Feline Health:
  • New Member Intro
  • Diarrhea

1. So with the Vetsulin it was test, feed, wait 30, shoot. Is it the same with Lantus?

No it's not the same - Lantus is much gentler - so it's test, feed, shoot all within a few minutes. Basically, because Lantus is a gentle insulin you don't need "food on board" before you shoot. I usually test/feed/shoot with Jax's head in his food bowl If I know his numbers may be low - I'll test with a freeze dried chicken treat incase I have a question about his dose (and don't want to influence his test with food). Additionally, I don't know Vetsulin protocols, but with Lantus, you don't want to feed 2 hours prior to your shot time so that your BG reading isn't food influenced.

2. Vet suggests 1U starting dose with the Lantus?? Agree or Warning

I can't answer this - but hopefully getting your title with the question mark will get some eyes on this

3. I put him on FF classic pate food bought all different flavors using the chart but did I misunderstand it? Is seafood flavors like cod,sole & shrimp safe to feed (I think I saw something about not feeding seafood)

My kitty eats FF Classic Pate mostly too - I did switch off the fish flavors once I read more about them. I know other people feed fish. Everyone has different opinions (others may weigh in here). Here's what Dr. Pierson says on her site:

Fish/seafood, beef, lamb, corn, wheat, and soy tend to be the most hyperallergenic ingredients for the cat – especially fish/seafood.

4. Anything I need to know specific or special about swapping from Vetsulin to Lantus.. like a spike in readings or big drop that I'm not use to seeing or will it be a gradual thing?

It may be worth reading New Here sticky - scroll down a little and you'll see a sample of an "active" cycle. I've also heard some kitties are sensitive to their first lantus dose. Get input from others with more experience for things to look out for when switching

You're doing great Keep asking questions and checking in. You will also want to consider getting one or two "before bed" tests (i.e. PMPS +2, PMPS +3) - kitties often go lower at night and these two tests can be very telling to the rest of the cycle.

Good luck - the veterans will be along soon to help!

 

[Wendy & Bocephus cat]

Hi Welcome! I can't give dosing advice but can help a little bit Also, I read (and re-read) the stickies ALL THE TIME Completely normal. Different parts will make sense each time you read!

For asking questions:

• I recommend using editing your Thread title and picking the ? from the drop-down - once your question is answered, you take off the ? (and remove the question text from your title). This helps people scanning the board to quickly see questions. I think I edited it
• The LBL board also likes to link previous threads for continuity. So tomorrow, you would link today's thread in your new thread. Here are you first two posts from Feline Health:
  • New Member Intro
  • Diarrhea yikes.. I remember reading something about that. I will find it and learn how to link up (thanks)

No it's not the same - Lantus is much gentler - so it's test, feed, shoot all within a few minutes. Basically, because Lantus is a gentle insulin you don't need "food on board" before you shoot. I usually test/feed/shoot with Jax's head in his food bowl If I know his numbers may be low - I'll test with a freeze dried chicken treat incase I have a question about his dose (and don't want to influence his test with food). Additionally, I don't know Vetsulin protocols, but with Lantus, you don't want to feed 2 hours prior to your shot time so that your BG reading isn't food influenced.
I like the not having to wait 30
I can't answer this - but hopefully getting your title with the question mark will get some eyes on this


My kitty eats FF Classic Pate mostly too - I did switch off the fish flavors once I read more about them. I know other people feed fish. Everyone has different opinions (others may weigh in here). Here's what Dr. Pierson says on her site:

It may be worth reading New Here sticky - scroll down a little and you'll see a sample of an "active" cycle. I've also heard some kitties are sensitive to their first lantus dose. Get input from others with more experience for things to look out for when switching

You're doing great Keep asking questions and checking in. You will also want to consider getting one or two "before bed" tests (i.e. PMPS +2, PMPS +3) - kitties often go lower at night and these two tests can be very telling to the rest of the cycle.

Good luck - the veterans will be along soon to help!

Thank you for your welcome and help

 

[Sue and Luci]

Welcome to the LB&L Forum! Just wanted to say I just love your cats name! Bo-cee-PHUS! How adorable!!!

Anyway...on to your question about switching from Vetsulin to Lantus - I think I'd go with the 1 u. Mr. B. has some pretty high numbers there...and unfortunately I'm not an expert on Vetsulin except I understand it's not the greatest thing for kitties.

Switching to Lantus will help you get lower, flatter numbers - however with that said, you'll need to be sure to get some tests at night....

Not sure what the guidelines are for using V, but we always suggest getting at least a test before you go to bed, just to see if there's any action (dropping numbers)...and if there is, then you'll want to get another one or even two - which yes, as horrible as it sounds, might mean setting an alarm and getting up in the middle of the night to get a quick test.

Lantus is a 12/12 insulin; meaning there's a cycle every 12 hours - you give insulin and then you check for changes in the blood glucose during that cycle; each 12 hour segment of the day (yes, 24 hours) is a 'cycle'...you'll see lots of references here to those cycles. Kitties have faster metabolisms than hoomans or dogs and need two doses of Lantus - consistently spaced apart - 12 hours exactly if you can manage it (sometimes work schedules, etc. get in the way of that)...we'll help you sort that out if we can.

I have added a column on my SS for the time of day - since I work from home and get easily distracted...I have timers set as well...so every day we do our AM and PM test/feed, then shoot based on those timers. Luci knows what time it is before I do.

So my best advice to you - is take a look around - look at other people's condos and spreadsheets - you'll see all kinds of numbers and read about various situations - I found that really helped me to learn about what to do, when that kind of thing happened to us.

As for starting, you're in the right place. Please post daily so we can see how things are going and help you along the way!

Have a great afternoon Wendy!

 

[Wendy & Bocephus cat]

Welcome to the LB&L Forum! Just wanted to say I just love your cats name! Bo-cee-PHUS! How adorable!!! Thank you and just know I say it just like everytime I call his name lol.. if I said it just plain Bocephus he'd probably ignore me or think he's in trouble

Anyway...on to your question about switching from Vetsulin to Lantus - I think I'd go with the 1 u. Mr. B. has some pretty high numbers there...and unfortunately I'm not an expert on Vetsulin except I understand it's not the greatest thing for kitties.

Switching to Lantus will help you get lower, flatter numbers - however with that said, you'll need to be sure to get some tests at night....

Not sure what the guidelines are for using V, but we always suggest getting at least a test before you go to bed, just to see if there's any action (dropping numbers)...and if there is, then you'll want to get another one or even two - which yes, as horrible as it sounds, might mean setting an alarm and getting up in the middle of the night to get a quick test. I think that's my biggest fear with switching although I don't know why because dropping could happen with any type but I will definitely do some night tests.

Lantus is a 12/12 insulin; meaning there's a cycle every 12 hours - you give insulin and then you check for changes in the blood glucose during that cycle; each 12 hour segment of the day (yes, 24 hours) is a 'cycle'...you'll see lots of references here to those cycles. Kitties have faster metabolisms than hoomans or dogs and need two doses of Lantus - consistently spaced apart - 12 hours exactly if you can manage it (sometimes work schedules, etc. get in the way of that)...we'll help you sort that out if we can. Got it I think

I have added a column on my SS for the time of day - since I work from home and get easily distracted...I have timers set as well...so every day we do our AM and PM test/feed, then shoot based on those timers. Luci knows what time it is before I do. Yes I definitely need alarms and reminders

So my best advice to you - is take a look around - look at other people's condos and spreadsheets - you'll see all kinds of numbers and read about various situations - I found that really helped me to learn about what to do, when that kind of thing happened to us. Great tip thanks

As for starting, you're in the right place. Please post daily so we can see how things are going and help you along the way!

Have a great afternoon Wendy!

I'll do my best thanks for your help

 

[Wendy & Bocephus cat]

Welcome to the LB&L Forum! Just wanted to say I just love your cats name! Bo-cee-PHUS! How adorable!!!

Anyway...on to your question about switching from Vetsulin to Lantus - I think I'd go with the 1 u. Mr. B. has some pretty high numbers there...and unfortunately I'm not an expert on Vetsulin except I understand it's not the greatest thing for kitties.

Switching to Lantus will help you get lower, flatter numbers - however with that said, you'll need to be sure to get some tests at night....

Not sure what the guidelines are for using V, but we always suggest getting at least a test before you go to bed, just to see if there's any action (dropping numbers)...and if there is, then you'll want to get another one or even two - which yes, as horrible as it sounds, might mean setting an alarm and getting up in the middle of the night to get a quick test.

Lantus is a 12/12 insulin; meaning there's a cycle every 12 hours - you give insulin and then you check for changes in the blood glucose during that cycle; each 12 hour segment of the day (yes, 24 hours) is a 'cycle'...you'll see lots of references here to those cycles. Kitties have faster metabolisms than hoomans or dogs and need two doses of Lantus - consistently spaced apart - 12 hours exactly if you can manage it (sometimes work schedules, etc. get in the way of that)...we'll help you sort that out if we can.

I have added a column on my SS for the time of day - since I work from home and get easily distracted...I have timers set as well...so every day we do our AM and PM test/feed, then shoot based on those timers. Luci knows what time it is before I do.

So my best advice to you - is take a look around - look at other people's condos and spreadsheets - you'll see all kinds of numbers and read about various situations - I found that really helped me to learn about what to do, when that kind of thing happened to us.

As for starting, you're in the right place. Please post daily so we can see how things are going and help you along the way!

Have a great afternoon Wendy!

Not sure what happened.. hard to post with my phone but I think it put some of my response in the quote area and some at the bottom. Newbie problems with learning but I'll get it

 

[Sue and Luci]

Not sure what happened.. hard to post with my phone but I think it put some of my response in the quote area and some at the bottom. Newbie problems with learning but I'll get it

No worries!!

There is a lot of stuff to learn around here... took me quite a while to figure it all out... wasn’t the only thing I had to do at the time

 

[Christie & Maverick]

You've had some great suggestions above, so I'll try and focus in on a couple of other points. From what I have seen here when we have members switch from Vetsulin to Lantus, some consideration is given to the dose your cat was on, and how kitty was doing on the Vetsulin. He didn't look to be doing all that great, so I think it might be a good idea to start off with 1.5u of Lantus, which is what he was getting with Vetsulin. I don't think I'd go down in dose, but perhaps @Wendy&Neko can share her thoughts, since she has direct experience in this switch.

I'd also say make sure you get the U100 insulin syringes for Lantus, if I recall correctly, Vetsulin is a U40 insulin so you'd need to use the correct syringes. Put the U40s away so you don't mistakingly use them, you'd be giving too much Lantus.

You mentioned recently starting FF Pates, was Bocephus on dry before, or a different canned food? If you have recently switched from dry food, we'd need to know when since sometimes transitioning off dry food can improve blood glucose levels. I'm in a bit of a rush, I need to check on Mav, but I hope I have helped somewhat.

Maybe also change your thread title to show switching from Vetsulin to Lantus, sometimes tags don't work, so I'd like someone with experience around Vetsulin to make sure I haven't led you astray

 

[Wendy & Bocephus cat]

You've had some great suggestions above, so I'll try and focus in on a couple of other points. From what I have seen here when we have members switch from Vetsulin to Lantus, some consideration is given to the dose your cat was on, and how kitty was doing on the Vetsulin. He didn't look to be doing all that great, so I think it might be a good idea to start off with 1.5u of Lantus, which is what he was getting with Vetsulin. I don't think I'd go down in dose, but perhaps @Wendy&Neko can share her thoughts, since she has direct experience in this switch.

I'd also say make sure you get the U100 insulin syringes for Lantus, if I recall correctly, Vetsulin is a U40 insulin so you'd need to use the correct syringes. Put the U40s away so you don't mistakingly use them, you'd be giving too much Lantus.

You mentioned recently starting FF Pates, was Bocephus on dry before, or a different canned food? If you have recently switched from dry food, we'd need to know when since sometimes transitioning off dry food can improve blood glucose levels. I'm in a bit of a rush, I need to check on Mav, but I hope I have helped somewhat.

Maybe also change your thread title to show switching from Vetsulin to Lantus, sometimes tags don't work, so I'd like someone with experience around Vetsulin to make sure I haven't led you astray

Hi sorry for the late response I've been on the go picking up his Lantus and swinging by his vets office for a tutorial on getting it out of the pen and discussing our goals for him. You were correct on the syringe differences and thankfully they are going to let me return all of the unopened U40's and she sent me home with the U100's.
He was on Rachel Ray dry food and a variety of FF mostly the yummy gravy types. So I stopped the dry food completely on 9/29 (or 9/30) and was just doing the FF wet but didn't know it needed to be the pate type until I was helped after my first post and swapped to all low carb FF classics late style in 10/2. So really we're probably just getting to the point to start seeing the benefits of a low carb wet diet but we're praying those numbers start improving.
Hope all is well with Maverick and thank you for your help.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

As has been mentioned already, it's likely the 1.0 unit will be too low a dose to start. The one thing that makes me hesitate is that we have no data from the PM and not very many days of data. Lantus dose changes are based on how low a dose takes the cat, many cats go lower at night, hence the desire to see night time numbers. Even a +2 or test just before you go to bed will be really helpful in telling us what is happening at night.

 

[Wendy & Bocephus cat]

As has been mentioned already, it's likely the 1.0 unit will be too low a dose to start. The one thing that makes me hesitate is that we have no data from the PM and not very many days of data. Lantus dose changes are based on how low a dose takes the cat, many cats go lower at night, hence the desire to see night time numbers. Even a +2 or test just before you go to bed will be really helpful in telling us what is happening at night.

Yes unfortunately I'm just getting started with the home testing but he starts the Lantus tomorrow morning after AMPS and feeding so I plan to do a mid-day like maybe +4 and then the PMPS and a +3 or +4 between the PMPS and bedtime.
I'm still confused about the slow/tight.. what should I be following? Or do I need to wait until he's been on it two weeks do a curve and then worry about slow vs. tight?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

The decision of which dosing method to use is up to you, and based on your life style and goals for your cat. You also aren’t stuck on one, you can change if your circumstances or comfort level changes.

Your testing plan sounds good to start. As you learn your cat’s onset and nadir on Lantus, you may find better times to test.