Chloe at 368 at +4, 340 at +8

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Panic said:
I thought it also took longer to hit the bloodstream compared to wet?
Mixing karo and LC can make MC if I remember right perhaps?

Please pick up a few cans tomorrow, she's is hovering in low numbers too much to not have those on-hand. And lower the dose permanently please. I don't want to wake up one morning and see Chloe hypo'd the night before from overdosing.
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I've been having trouble measuring the dose because it's so low and I'm not used to the pen yet. So really, the .75 and .50 are approximations within .25. I will keep her at .50 from now on and get better at measuring. Also, earlier today, she had gotten into the dry food and spit it up all over my bed.
 
Roberta, what do you think, starting tomorrow, about going right down to a dose of 0.25 units twice a day?
You can use a pair of reading glasses from the dollar store to make everything look bigger so that you can see. They do help. I used them a couple of times.
Practice with a used syringe and some water. When you have what you think is a good indicator of a 0.25 unit dose, put the syringe aside and use it as a guide.
Lantus truly is not designed for base dosing.

Here is a photograph of what a 0.25 unit dose looks like using a syringe that shows half unit markings. (Syringes with half unit markings help a lot too.)

0.25unit.jpeg
 

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Panic said:
Take a syringe with colored water and practice. Get some calipers and set it to the dose so you can use them instead of guessing every time. Just a little bit off is enough to kill them. I understand it's difficult but this isn't something we can work around, it has to be spot-on.

I'd rather see her on 0.25u than 0.50u. @Christie & Maverick thoughts?
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.25 would be like 2 drops.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Can anyone run to a supermarket and pick up some food in Gravy
Roberta please listen to Panic and Christie and me stop raising her dose

EDIT. Roberta she even went to low on 9-21 at 0.5 units she dropped to 35 @+4
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On 9/20, she was at 28, which really scared me. That's the lowest she's ever been!
 
Roberta, we have been going now for a couple of hours, and Chloe hasn't gotten above 50, even with using honey. You need to seriously carb her up now. This is not good that she refuses to come up. The problem is that honey supposed to wear off quickly, yet we can't get her to the point (above 50) where you can stop intervening with carbs. The fact is also that you would need to continue to test for around two hours past last intervention, to make sure she is continuing to rise.

I also still feel that you may need to consult with an emergency vet if you cannot get her numbers higher, this is serious.
 
Chloe needs to be assessed and possibly put on a glucose drip.
She should not being seeing numbers like this 14 1/2 hours after insulin.
She should be rising and she's not.

Hypo numbers with no symptoms can turn into hypo numbers with very serious symptoms in the blink of an eye.
 
@Red & Rover (GA) is right, things can turn so quickly, we have done as much as we can to help, and I believe it is time for a vet to assess and likely intervene with a sugar drip. It is not good to have prolonged lows with no movement at all. You've brought out the big guns and they aren't doing anything. Time for a vet.
 
I just opened 2 cans of 9-Lives and squeezed out the gravy. Also, I injected a teaspoon of honey in her mouth. I doubt that any grocery stores are open this late. Thank you for all your help. I'm reluctant to take her to emergency. I'll contact my vet first thing tomorrow morning.
 
We have given you our thoughts, as well as our reasoning. It is based on our concern for you and Chloe that we feel an emergency vet visit is required. However, the choice is yours. Please continue to test and post results, and keep the SS updated. Many people who come on later may go straight to the SS vs, reading this long thread. I'm not sure who else is on, or will be on, but I need to go to bed. Hopefully you can get her up above 50 soon, but I would still say have the phone number of closest emergency vet handy, since it is hard to know if or when Chloe will have symptoms. We often say it is better to be a day too high than a minute too low. We just want the best for Chloe.

I'll leave you with some suggestions. Try and alternate gravy/honey with food/honey, so this time you gave gravy with honey, test again in 20 Minutes, and give a teaspoon of food with a teaspoon of honey if the numbers still haven't moved. Next test 20 Minutes, teaspoon of gravy with teaspoon of honey. Continue until she is up above 50, then continue to test for two hours from the last intervention of high carb or honey. As I mentioned before, even if she is above 50, do not go to bed. Keep testing, since the numbers can go back down, as honey can wear off quickly.

Here is the link to handling low numbers

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dont-panic-or-how-to-handle-low-numbers.210109/

Good luck.
 
Has no one told you that Lantus is depot insulin?
You won't see a change in dosage in the same cycle as with prozinc.
Dosing the way you currently do will end up killing your cat.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
We have given you our thoughts, as well as our reasoning. It is based on our concern for you and Chloe that we feel an emergency vet visit is required. However, the choice is yours. Please continue to test and post results, and keep the SS updated. Many people who come on later may go straight to the SS vs, reading this long thread. I'm not sure who else is on, or will be on, but I need to go to bed. Hopefully you can get her up above 50 soon, but I would still say have the phone number of closest emergency vet handy, since it is hard to know if or when Chloe will have symptoms. We often say it is better to be a day too high than a minute too low. We just want the best for Chloe.

I'll leave you with some suggestions. Try and alternate gravy/honey with food/honey, so this time you gave gravy with honey, test again in 20 Minutes, and give a teaspoon of food with a teaspoon of honey if the numbers still haven't moved. Next test 20 Minutes, teaspoon of gravy with teaspoon of honey. Continue until she is up above 50, then continue to test for two hours from the last intervention of high carb or honey. As I mentioned before, even if she is above 50, do not go to bed. Keep testing, since the numbers can go back down, as honey can wear off quickly.

Here is the link to handling low numbers

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dont-panic-or-how-to-handle-low-numbers.210109/

Good luck.
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Thank you, Christy, for staying with me so late. I woke at 3 am and gave her some wet food and now, 3 hours later, she's at 464.
 
Hi Roberta,

Very relieved to hear from you. I'd sooner see Chloe in the 400s than the 40s the way she was last night. :nailbiting:

I need a little time to draft a reply to you. Please wait to hear back from me before giving any insulin this morning. It will only be a few minutes before you hear back from me.


Mogs
.
 
I don't know. There will still be some depot from the high dose that will affect this cycle and added to the fact that she very nearly died last night I don't know if she needs to be on .10u today as a precaution.

You did double-check the test numbers to be on the safe side? That number is definitely expected but still.

I see Mogs is looking into it, I'd be more comfortable letting her come up with a plan.
 
Hi again, Roberta,

I'm glad that you've decided to go with the suggestions from members posting to help you last night and reduce the dose to 0.25IU.

Some pre-flight checks:

1. Which higher carb foods do you have in the house right now?

2. Do you still have plenty of honey or karo?

3. Has Chloe ever had blood or urine tests ever come back positive for ketones?

4. How many test strips do you have for [EDIT:] the Alphatrak your meter?

5. Are you in a position to test throughout the AM cycle today?


Mogs
.
 
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Critter Mom said:
Hi again, Roberta,

I'm glad that you've decided to go with the suggestions from members posting to help you last night and reduce the dose to 0.25IU.

Some pre-flight checks:

1. Which higher carb carb foods do you have in the house right now?

2. Do you still have plenty of honey or karo?

3. Has Chloe ever had blood or urine tests ever come back positive for blood ketones?

4. How many test strips do you have for [EDIT:] the Alphatrak your meter?

5. Are you in a position to test throughout the AM cycle today?


Mogs
.
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yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes
 
She's still relatively new so cut her some slack...We are ALL here for the betterment of our cats. Its a HUGE common goal. There are bumps in the road but nothing we cant get over. ;):coffee:
 
I need very specific answers, Roberta:

1. Which higher carb foods do you have in the house right now?

4. How many test strips do you have for your meter?


Mogs
.
 
Glad to see everything is ok. I came three hours ago, when it was TFS time for Mav, and didn't see anything, so I was a little worried for you.

FWIW, there have been a lot of no shots, and jumping around in dose, so it would appear to me the depot hasn't really settled much, you'd be getting some NDW each time these things were going on. Anywho, I haven't had my third cup of coffee yet, so I might be off on my assessment :p

I'd suggest 0.25u with of course continued monitoring thoday.

Ignore the bounces Roberta.
 
@Red & Rover (GA) -
@Christie & Maverick
@Panic

Hi all,

Christie & Maverick said:
I'd suggest 0.25u with of course continued monitoring thoday.
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With Chloe's history of throwing ketones and, I believe, DKA, it's important to ensure that she gets enough insulin.

However, bearing in mind that Chloe's numbers Just. Would. Not. Budge. last night and also Roberta's difficulty measuring accurate doses, I'm afraid I would not feel comfortable assisting Roberta today if the dose is 0.25IU this morning, so I'm going to duck out of this situation now. (I would have felt less uneasy about a dose of 0.1IU.)

Also, it's 3pm in the UK and I've still to break my fast (getting lightheaded).

Please can someone else take over the lead on this?


Mogs
.
 
Oh, and one more thing before I forget. Just to reiterate something I mentioned earlier in the thread, now that the dust has settled, Lantus should be given at 12 hour intervals, so if you give a shot now, you then will need to give the next shot 12 hours from now. You can be off between 15-30 minutes, but anything beyond that can affect some kitties (too early acts like a dose increase, too late acts like a dose decrease). I kind of got the impression you weren't doing that, so it is important to start.
 
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