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VickLynC

VickLynC

Member Since 2020
Hello all... First let me say, I have been reading the threads on this forum for a few days, and I'm so grateful to all of you already! About 2 months ago, my 10 year old kitty Clyde was diagnosed with diabetes. My vet put him on Lantus glargine, and we started very slowly but have added over time because the insulin doesn't seem to be making much headway. In the middle of trying to get him stabilized on insulin, I had to rush him to the emergency vet 3 times because he was in respiratory distress. We finally figured out that the poor cat has heart disease (and was in congestive heart failure), underlying asthma (which we already knew) in addition to his diabetes. Last week I found out that he has "severe heart disease", which makes me very sad. His heart issues are now stabilized, but his blood sugar is still hovering in the low 300s. (this morning... 348 before eating and 310 at the 6 hour mark). I just downloaded the SS, and will get on that asap! He is currently on 3 units/2x day on Lantus glargine, and they are considering increasing him even more. He is very picky, and I haven't found any of the "low carb" foods that he'll eat for long. He refuses to touch any pate, and turns his nose at anything even remotely resembling people food. Out of desperation, I put him on the prescription food from the vet, which of course is super expensive. He's only been on it for a few days, so I'm not sure if it's helping yet.

Another question that I have is about calculating carbs in the canned cat food. I created my own spreadsheet based on the calculations I found online, but when I cross compare to the online tables, the level of carbs is much higher than what I calculated. His favorite food is 9% carb by my calculation, but 16% in the tables that I've found. Sigh... He was sick this last week (trauma from the cardiology appointment) and I was desperate to get him to eat so I just fed him a can of his favorite food, and his BG dropped to 280 before eating and 230 (+6 hours).

Any help and any advice would be appreciated.
 
WELCOME TO FDMB Vickln and Clyde! We are very glad you found us.

Theres a wealth of information here at your fingertips but its a voice you are looking for, well we have BOTH. I know you are looking for specific answers but you just may want to start here first. Answers have a way of appearing while one is getting to know how this board runs.
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

I am so sorry Clyde has such heart issues.:( This handsome devil to your left had RCM Our heart kitties are so special!

We are a community of cat lovers that share one common tie Feline Diabetes. Your first post makes you one of us

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

I'm pretty sure you will get lots of feedback on this, so keep checking while you get acquainted.
Again welcome to the best site on this planet to learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes. ;):coffee:
jeanne
 
Clyde weighs about 14 pounds, and even the vet is scratching their heads as to why his blood sugar isn't reducing.
tiffmaxee said:
We have had lots. Sorry for the diagnosis. That’s a really large dose and unless he’s a huge cat way too high. How much does he weigh?
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Thank you all so much for responding. Honestly, it's making my cry. It's just been so stressful. I have tried so many low carb foods that he just walks away from... I have two cats, the other one is picky as well, and now I'm feeding them separately.
 
:bighug: When was he diagnosed ? What was the starting dose? How quickly was that increased and in what increments? Max started on 1 unit and weighed about the same.
 
VickLynC said:
Thank you all so much for responding. Honestly, it's making my cry. It's just been so stressful. I have tried so many low carb foods that he just walks away from... I have two cats, the other one is picky as well, and now I'm feeding them separately.
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Vick I understand I think I went through every ca and brand there was . My cat also did not like pate which made it hard to go with Fancy Feast so after trying She ended up liking Weruva paw lickin chicken which looks like shredded chicken. She would also try Tiki Cat but not as much as Weruva. She liked their Fowl ball chicken and turkey for a while then turned her nose at it too . Weruva is not cheap but it is human grade food and not filled with the usual bull that is in pet food .
It’s important that Clyde eats so try to gradually cut back on his favorite food mix the new food in and keep cutting back . I really know as do the other members what you are going through Let’s see what the more experienced members have to say
 
tiffmaxee said:
:bighug: When was he diagnosed ? What was the starting dose? How quickly was that increased and in what increments? Max started on 1 unit and weighed about the same.
Click to expand...
He was diagnosed on July 28th.. His starting dose was 1 unit/2 times per day. They kept it there for a few weeks, then increased to 2units/2x per day. We had some success there, and thought he was stabilizing (this was before I was testing myself at home). Things were going well, then he had the respiratory issues that sent him to the ER two days in a row, and then again a week later - which turned out to be congestive heart failure. They tested his BG at the ER, and it was very high all the time - close to 400. So, I followed up with my vet a week later, and that's when we increased to 3 units/ 2x per day, and when I started testing his BG myself. He's been there now for over two weeks, with little change in the BG levels, except for when he was very sick earlier this week. They generally hover in the low to mid 300s. I did't give him his insulin when he was really sick, and we did reduce it for a few days since he was eating very little.

ON a separate note, his respiratory rate also fluctuates, and when it's a bit higher I'm to give him a bit more diuretic. Which is where we are tonight, and I am of course, worried. He vomited all night long last week, and it took him several days, an anti-emetic and fluids at the vet, to recover. My vet thinks it was stress from a cardiology appointment he had last Monday. I'm really hoping that we can get to a point where he is stable and not sick. It breaks my heart that he is feeling crappy all the time. He loves to play, and he hasn't chased anything around for a while now. :(
 
VickLynC said:
He was diagnosed on July 28th.. His starting dose was 1 unit/2 times per day. They kept it there for a few weeks, then increased to 2units/2x per day. We had some success there, and thought he was stabilizing (this was before I was testing myself at home). Things were going well, then he had the respiratory issues that sent him to the ER two days in a row, and then again a week later - which turned out to be congestive heart failure. They tested his BG at the ER, and it was very high all the time - close to 400. So, I followed up with my vet a week later, and that's when we increased to 3 units/ 2x per day, and when I started testing his BG myself. He's been there now for over two weeks, with little change in the BG levels, except for when he was very sick earlier this week. They generally hover in the low to mid 300s. I did't give him his insulin when he was really sick, and we did reduce it for a few days since he was eating very little.

ON a separate note, his respiratory rate also fluctuates, and when it's a bit higher I'm to give him a bit more diuretic. Which is where we are tonight, and I am of course, worried. He vomited all night long last week, and it took him several days, an anti-emetic and fluids at the vet, to recover. My vet thinks it was stress from a cardiology appointment he had last Monday. I'm really hoping that we can get to a point where he is stable and not sick. It breaks my heart that he is feeling crappy all the time. He loves to play, and he hasn't chased anything around for a while now. :(
Click to expand...
Minnie has cardiomyopathy. It was brought on by the pneumonia but it’s not because of it. She’s on furosimide is that the diuretic you’re using? I saw online that it can increase the bg but I don’t think it did for her. Then again she was on so maybe other meds as well. She’s also on clopidogrel and another liquid one for the heart muscle, can’t remember the name...
 
Dusty & Roe said:
Vick I understand I think I went through every ca and brand there was . My cat also did not like pate which made it hard to go with Fancy Feast so after trying She ended up liking Weruva paw lickin chicken which looks like shredded chicken. She would also try Tiki Cat but not as much as Weruva. She liked their Fowl ball chicken and turkey for a while then turned her nose at it too . Weruva is not cheap but it is human grade food and not filled with the usual bull that is in pet food .
It’s important that Clyde eats so try to gradually cut back on his favorite food mix the new food in and keep cutting back . I really know as do the other members what you are going through Let’s see what the more experienced members have to say
Click to expand...

This has been the hardest thing - finding something he'll actually eat. I was so excited that his BG came down to the 200s when he was eating his old food, that there is part of me that says... maybe that would help. Then my logical brain kicks in and I know that 16% carbs is not going to work.

I've tried tikicat, weruva, and every other low carb option! I printed out a list and went to every pet store in town. I even bought some of the frozen food online. I've gotten him to eat the GRAVY ONLY out of the CRAVE turkey in gravy, and CRAVE Salmon in gravy, and he sort of likes ProPlan Nature chicken and turkey in broth. All are on the list of below 10%. These are the only ones that he would entertain, and only if I sprinkle Fortiflora on it. He will not eat the actual meat, which he does with his old food. I have been feeding him supplemental hard food (the prescription variety - Hills Science diet and Royal Canin - I have both). I can reduce his hard food slowly to try to eliminate it, but then he would only be eating gravy. At least until **we** (see what I did there!) get him to eat the meat and gravy.

In desperation, I started him on the Royal Canin hard and soft food - he will drink the liquid from that canned food - I mixed his favorite food with it for a few days and then transitioned him to it totally. So, now he is on this hard and soft food, but he just "fully" got on it without mixing this morning. I'd like to try this out a bit longer because he was on this initially and it helped bring his BG down. I started to try to transition him to store bought food because it seemed ridiculous to keep him on the prescription food if it wasn't necessary, and from what I read, not as good for him. I didn't bank on him completely not cooperating.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Minnie has cardiomyopathy. It was brought on by the pneumonia but it’s not because of it. She’s on furosimide is that the diuretic you’re using? I saw online that it can increase the bg but I don’t think it did for her. Then again she was on so maybe other meds as well. She’s also on clopidogrel and another liquid one for the heart muscle, can’t remember the name...
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Yes, he is on Lasix. I asked the vet if they thought that might be the issue, but they didn't think so. I just dismissed it, but I will investigate that a bit. I went back and rewatched all the videos on how to give the injections because I started to think he wasn't getting his insulin.
 
VickLynC said:
Yes, he is on Lasix. I asked the vet if they thought that might be the issue, but they didn't think so. I just dismissed it, but I will investigate that a bit. I went back and rewatched all the videos on how to give the injections because I started to think he wasn't getting his insulin.
Click to expand...
And yes, it's hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The cardiologist said his left ventricle was twice the size it should be. He didn't rule out heartworm.. but he's been an indoor cat for his entire life since coming to live with me, but he was found as a kitten near a dumpster.
 
VickLynC said:
And yes, it's hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The cardiologist said his left ventricle was twice the size it should be. He didn't rule out heartworm.. but he's been an indoor cat for his entire life since coming to live with me, but he was found as a kitten near a dumpster.
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The vet gave a prescription for plavix as well, but I haven't started that yet. I got the prescription at the **very stressful** cardiology appt.
 
VickLynC said:
Yes, he is on Lasix. I asked the vet if they thought that might be the issue, but they didn't think so. I just dismissed it, but I will investigate that a bit. I went back and rewatched all the videos on how to give the injections because I started to think he wasn't getting his insulin.
Click to expand...
OMG.. it's a common thing that diuretics can increase BG! Maybe that is a contributing factor. I'll contact my vet in the morning... I'm not sure what we could do about that.
 
VickLynC said:
OMG.. it's a common thing that diuretics can increase BG! Maybe that is a contributing factor. I'll contact my vet in the morning... I'm not sure what we could do about that.
Click to expand...
AND, I just realized that we deliberately skipped a dose of the diuretic when they gave him fluids since the antiemetic was in the fluids and we wanted to give them time to absorb. And it was right after that that his BG dropped nearly 100 points
 
VickLynC said:
AND, I just realized that we deliberately skipped a dose of the diuretic when they gave him fluids since the antiemetic was in the fluids and we wanted to give them time to absorb. And it was right after that that his BG dropped nearly 100 points
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Minnie was at 2 mls 3 times a day at the height of it. Now she’s done to .8 twice a day
 
We would have to compare the dose (mg/mL). Clyde is currently at 0.125 mL 2x/day. Sounds like mine is more concentrated than yours. I just gave him another 0.1 mL, as his breathing rate is a little high right now. Honestly, this poor little guy just can't get ahead. I sent a note with a link to my vet about Lasix and BG, so we'll see what they say.
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Minnie was at 2 mls 3 times a day at the height of it. Now she’s done to .8 twice a day
Click to expand...
So Cyde’s breathing is still a little off today. I gave him a larger amount of diuretic last night and this morning, I called the vet. He hasn’t gotten any worse, but he hasn’t really gotten any better either. I’m waiting for the vet to call me back, but keep your fingers crossed. I really don’t want to end up in the ER with him again.
 
Thank you all, I really appreciate it. He Is still breathing a little heavily, but the vet said that he seems to be stable so she was not overly concerned (I videotaped him and sent it to her). I just know that the last time he was like this, it’s spiraled downward. She did instruct me to give him more diuretic tonight which I did about 2 hours ago, but no change yet. I’m just hoping for the best!
 
Hello all… Another update on Clyde. My vet had me contact the cardiologist, who said that Lasix was most likely not increasing his blood glucose. He thinks that the reduction in blood glucose had more to do with his reduction in food, then the diuretic. So I’m kind of in a catch 22… I can’t not give him his diuretic, but I can’t test the theory without Not giving him his diuretic. His blood glucose is still in the 300s, and if it stays this way for much longer I’m sure I’m gonna have a poor kitty that has diabetes, heart disease, asthma, and kidney issues. I’m going to get my spreadsheet going this weekend and fill it in with the information that I have. I’ll post it. Thanks again for all of your help. I’ll keep everyone updated.
 
VickLynC said:
Hello all… Another update on Clyde. My vet had me contact the cardiologist, who said that Lasix was most likely not increasing his blood glucose. He thinks that the reduction in blood glucose had more to do with his reduction in food, then the diuretic. So I’m kind of in a catch 22… I can’t not give him his diuretic, but I can’t test the theory without Not giving him his diuretic. His blood glucose is still in the 300s, and if it stays this way for much longer I’m sure I’m gonna have a poor kitty that has diabetes, heart disease, asthma, and kidney issues. I’m going to get my spreadsheet going this weekend and fill it in with the information that I have. I’ll post it. Thanks again for all of your help. I’ll keep everyone updated.
Click to expand...
The good news though was that the cardiologist didn’t think this episode was a indication that his heart is worsening. He thought it was just an episode.
 
Thought I would give you the post 1 week update... With the increased diuretic, he has completely stabilized re: his heart issues. His breathing is so much better. The cardiologist said this is a "normal" dose for cats, so not to worry about it being too high. He's going to start decreasing it again in about 1 week (after he's been at the higher dose for two weeks). We still have blood sugar issues, but as soon as I'm sure he's stable, I'll tackle the blood glucose levels again.. which brings me to... is there a thread that talks about the best way to get blood for the BG test? My poor cat... I poke several times before i finally hit the vein in his ear... I feel terrible. This evening I probably poked him 15 times before I gave up... some advice would be really helpful. He's a black cat, so his ear is covered in black fur. I use a light and shine it, and poke right on the vein, but most of the time it doesn't work.
 
Try applying a small smear of Vaseline or Neosporin ointment with pain relief on the test area. Wipe off the excess with a tissue or cotton pad. It should flatten the fur to make it easier to see where you're aiming and it also helps the blood sample to bead up instead of wicking away into the fur.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Try applying a small smear of Vaseline or Neosporin ointment with pain relief on the test area. Wipe off the excess with a tissue or cotton pad. It should flatten the fur to make it easier to see where you're aiming and it also helps the blood sample to bead up instead of wicking away into the fur.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
I will! I was putting neosporin on his ear, and then recently I've stopped... I'll definitely do it tonight.. poor guy, I was brutal. :(
 
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