URI Kitten Update

[Panic]

So yes - we are still fighting the URI

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...n-treatment-options-and-what-to-avoid.233200/

Thank you everyone from the previous thread when I was asking about treatment options! We have since tried Clavamox (x2), Clindamycin, and ofloxacin ophthalmic drops with no luck. Gyda's spay surgery has been cancelled twice now and I finally got to speak with the spay and neuter director today (had been playing phone tag) and we agreed that there was no rush on the spay until she's better.

I took her to a new, shiny vet clinic today - AAHA accredited and everything. The vet I spoke with was very nice, liked him immediately, friendly and took time to explain my options. He recommended a PCR panel to pinpoint what virus we were actually dealing with (maybe it's not feline herpes) and I will get the results back in a week or so. He said my printed out list of dates/medicines was very helpful and I was doing everything he would have been doing. He threw out some possibilities of polysps (??) and basically said he'd prefer to stick to the basics before assuming anything else, like allergens etc.

I had asked him about doxycycline because it was recommended to me a couple times and he said because of her age it can cause teeth discoloration in kittens so he'd rather avoid it if possible ... but that he might consider it if the panel indicates it would help. He also mentioned her third eyelids were protruding (I assumed it was because she had conjunctivitis) so he gave her some dewormer in case she has tapeworms. He sent her home on Terrymycin and Azithromyic and we are going to play it by ear until the results come back. Her report also says she has mild serious nasal discharge which bothers me because I've never noticed nasal discharge ... maybe she's had it all along and I didn't notice?

I feel kind of nervous about it ... before I just assumed it was a bad herpes flare-up but with a PCR panel I'm feeling a little tense. Hopefully no matter what the results are it will be treatable ... right?

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Giggling @ Kitten shes adorable

 

[Panic]

Giggling @ Kitten shes adorable

She's a little booger, Jeanne! It takes two people to wipe her eyes.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Awwwwwwwwww...giggling

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I hope the PCR panel will pinpoint something.
Look at those cute feeties . I hope everything could be treated easily ♥

 

[Panic]

I hope the PCR panel will pinpoint something.
Look at those cute feeties . I hope everything could be treated easily ♥

Thanks Diane! Didn't even think about it possibly not being herpes virus.

 

[Critter Mom]

I finally got to speak with the spay and neuter director today (had been playing phone tag) and we agreed that there was no rush on the spay until she's better.

Very glad to hear this, Elizabeth.


Mogs
.

 

[THH & Snowcrash (GA)]

Azithromycin is a great antibiotic for URI. It was used all the time at the rescue, even for seniors and diabetics.

 

[Panic]

Azithromycin is a great antibiotic for URI. It was used all the time at the rescue, even for seniors and diabetics.

That's really good to know! We haven't tried it yet so maybe it will do a better job than the others have done. Like the vet said, we'll have to wait a couple weeks to see if it actually worked, since all the others worked until she stopped taking them.

 

[LittleBo]

Just curious why they're still wanting to try more antibiotics if they think it's a virus? Guessing it's to cover both basis?

 

[Panic]

Just curious why they're still wanting to try more antibiotics if they think it's a virus? Guessing it's to cover both basis?

From what I understand, (well, at least in regards to herpes virus) you can't do anything about the virus itself ... just treat the symptoms. I don't know if that's supposed to help suppress the virus, or just keep the symptoms at bay until the virus clears itself out? I can't find much research on it, that or I'm not looking in the right places.

But in regards to the different types of respiratory viruses , there's multiple URI antibiotics to use but some are better at treating certain viruses than others. So if she doesn't have herpes virus, but say calcivirus, the new antibiotic she's on would work better than the other kinds she's been on, which are more for herpes virus ... if that makes any sense. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

 

[Olive & Paula]

She is certainly showing her business isn't she. Such a cutie.

 

[Panic]

She's an adorable gremlin. The kind of kitten you pick up by putting your hand in their face and they latch on. She would be a nightmare to test!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

She is certainly showing her business isn't she. Such a cutie.

Just wanted to say hello Paula, hope all is well

 

[LittleBo]

From what I understand, (well, at least in regards to herpes virus) you can't do anything about the virus itself ... just treat the symptoms. I don't know if that's supposed to help suppress the virus, or just keep the symptoms at bay until the virus clears itself out? I can't find much research on it, that or I'm not looking in the right places.

But in regards to the different types of respiratory viruses , there's multiple URI antibiotics to use but some are better at treating certain viruses than others. So if she doesn't have herpes virus, but say calcivirus, the new antibiotic she's on would work better than the other kinds she's been on, which are more for herpes virus ... if that makes any sense. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

Antibiotics only work on bacterial infections and not viral which is why I was questioning it. Might be worth asking your vet why they're doing it, if it can save you money and stress of giving something that isn't indicated.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

(((Elizabeth)))... No advice. Just a huge ((((HUG))))

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Antibiotics only work on bacterial infections and not viral which is why I was questioning it.

Yes, this is definitely the case.

I will say, I have sometimes heard the argument that antibiotics can help by tamping down secondary bacterial infections and allowing the cat's immune system to focus attention on the viral infection. Mind you, I have only heard this in a veterinary context, where the patient can't be very specific about what's bothering her and sometimes a broader approach can help, and only in a kind of casual way (suggestions by vets, not clinical studies).

 

[Panic]

Aren't antibiotics a common treatment for kitties with URIs though? And URIs are caused by viruses...right? I know when I was talking to the mobile vet and saying nothing was clearing it up he reminded me that you can't treat the virus, only the secondary symptoms. All the reading I've done on treating common URI-causing viruses (herpes, chlamydia, calcivirus) say to treat with various antibiotics, so maybe what Nan heard is the approach taken.

Here's an excerpt from Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins' book Your Cat (found it recommended on Dr. Pierson's website - it's a little dated though on FD)

Although antibiotics aren't thought to be effective against viruses, they are quite helpful in cats with herpesvirus disease. This is probably because most cats with virus-caused conditions also contract secondary bacterial complications, and the antibiotics help to fight these bacterial complications. Also, antibiotics may have anti-inflammatory effects in addition to their antibacterial effects, and they may assist in relieving the discomfort of the kitten's "cold".

Admittedly this is my first cat with a URI so I feel like I'm experiencing the joys of URIs late.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Interesting... and way more "official" than I thought (I thought it was my own vet just going a little off-script based on experience!).

So, if the pcr test is going to identify a particular virus, perhaps the antibiotics will be targeted to the common bacterial hitchhikers that come along with that virus? Or is the pcr going after bacterial identification directly?

 

[Panic]

I'm thinking it's the first thing? I looked up what the IDEXX Resp PCR in felines identifies and it listed the 3 viruses above, influenza, coronavirus, and bordatella. So they must be trying to pinpoint the virus(es) present and pick the antibiotics that work best for those viruses' secondary bacterial complications.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

So they must be trying to pinpoint the virus(es) present and pick the antibiotics that work best for those viruses' secondary bacterial complications.

Yeah... or possibly even starting some additional supportive therapies that have been shown to be particularly helpful for a specific virus.

Hope the answer (whatever it is) leads to a full resolution of your gremlin's symptoms-- just think, Gyda at full strength!!!

 

[Panic]

- just think, Gyda at full strength!!!

Oh no!! I am not ready!!

Fingers crossed! Will update when I hear news.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

FASCINATING! Elizabeth you are educating everyone here. I'm just so impressed.

God BLESS your little "gremlin" lol thats so cute. I sure do hope shes feeling better now or soon.

 

[Panic]

I'm learning as we go, too! Also read that chlamydia is a bacterium of itself, so that one is especially susceptible to antibiotics. The more you know!

You wouldn't know she's sick if it wasn't for the conjunctivitis and the sniffles! She's a bundle of energy! In fact ... her and the older kitten (she's almost 2 now) really get into it rough-housing. The other day the older kitten's cheek had swollen up ... yep, huge abscess that popped a couple days later. Did little gremlin cause it? Who knows!

 

[Olive & Paula]

There are antiviral meds, so maybe the tests will pinpoint which one it is. When I got Tripper she was highly contagious for bordatela. They had big red notices all over her chart. I think she was given azithromax (sp??) for 3 weeks. This was 17 yrs ago. She was very very pregnant but didn't know at the time. We had just got her. She had been given all her shots, isolation for 3 weeks. When we found out she was pregnant the concern was if baby would be ok since vaccines in late pregnancy can cause birth defects. Gave birth 2 weeks later to a huge healthy singleton.

 

[Dusty & Roe]

So yes - we are still fighting the URI

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...n-treatment-options-and-what-to-avoid.233200/

Thank you everyone from the previous thread when I was asking about treatment options! We have since tried Clavamox (x2), Clindamycin, and ofloxacin ophthalmic drops with no luck. Gyda's spay surgery has been cancelled twice now and I finally got to speak with the spay and neuter director today (had been playing phone tag) and we agreed that there was no rush on the spay until she's better.

I took her to a new, shiny vet clinic today - AAHA accredited and everything. The vet I spoke with was very nice, liked him immediately, friendly and took time to explain my options. He recommended a PCR panel to pinpoint what virus we were actually dealing with (maybe it's not feline herpes) and I will get the results back in a week or so. He said my printed out list of dates/medicines was very helpful and I was doing everything he would have been doing. He threw out some possibilities of polysps (??) and basically said he'd prefer to stick to the basics before assuming anything else, like allergens etc.

I had asked him about doxycycline because it was recommended to me a couple times and he said because of her age it can cause teeth discoloration in kittens so he'd rather avoid it if possible ... but that he might consider it if the panel indicates it would help. He also mentioned her third eyelids were protruding (I assumed it was because she had conjunctivitis) so he gave her some dewormer in case she has tapeworms. He sent her home on Terrymycin and Azithromyic and we are going to play it by ear until the results come back. Her report also says she has mild serious nasal discharge which bothers me because I've never noticed nasal discharge ... maybe she's had it all along and I didn't notice?

I feel kind of nervous about it ... before I just assumed it was a bad herpes flare-up but with a PCR panel I'm feeling a little tense. Hopefully no matter what the results are it will be treatable ... right?

View attachment 56348

Hi Elizabeth just wanted to say Wow I can’t believe this is the same little kitty she is Beautiful and saying a prayer for her to get better

 

[Panic]

There are antiviral meds, so maybe the tests will pinpoint which one it is. When I got Tripper she was highly contagious for bordatela. They had big red notices all over her chart. I think she was given azithromax (sp??) for 3 weeks. This was 17 yrs ago. She was very very pregnant but didn't know at the time. We had just got her. She had been given all her shots, isolation for 3 weeks. When we found out she was pregnant the concern was if baby would be ok since vaccines in late pregnancy can cause birth defects. Gave birth 2 weeks later to a huge healthy singleton.

Maybe that was the azithromycin antibiotic! Bordetella is another bacterium infection. Glad the baby was okay after all that!
Whatever Gyda has, the other cats must be already vaccinated against it, because they haven't shown any signs of illness in all this time.

Hi Elizabeth just wanted to say Wow I can’t believe this is the same little kitty she is Beautiful and saying a prayer for her to get better

Thank you Roe! She's growing like a weed isn't she! <3

 

[THH & Snowcrash (GA)]

Antibiotics only work on bacterial infections and not viral which is why I was questioning it. Might be worth asking your vet why they're doing it, if it can save you money and stress of giving something that isn't indicated.

Often cats with severe viral URIs get secondary bacterial infections that would normally be minor and not even worth treating... but by treating the bacterial component, their immune system can focus on the viral infection and it can help them clear it faster.

 

[Panic]

Often cats with severe viral URIs get secondary bacterial infections that would normally be minor and not even worth treating... but by treating the bacterial component, their immune system can focus on the viral infection and it can help them clear it faster.

Ah, so Nan's vet was right!
So is this just an approach of keeping the bacterial infections in check while you wait for the immune system to kill off the virus - hence why some kitties need to be on antibiotics for 3+ weeks? Are there antiviral meds for herpes, calcivirus, etc. or only the immune system can fend it off?

 

[THH & Snowcrash (GA)]

There's an antiviral medication called famciclovir for herpes, but there isn't one for calici virus. In my experience at the rescue, calici was the one that needed antibiotic support the most frequently.

 

[LittleBo]

Often cats with severe viral URIs get secondary bacterial infections that would normally be minor and not even worth treating... but by treating the bacterial component, their immune system can focus on the viral infection and it can help them clear it faster.

Awesome thanks for the explanation, completely makes sense.

 

[Panic]

We have results! And they're a doozy!

Called the vet today since it'd been two weeks, they apologized and said apparently they'd been sitting on the results without realizing, they forgot to set up the notification or something. She is NEGATIVE for herpes virus! And positive for chlamydia, calicivirus, and mysoplasma. As a recap, he gave her Terramycin + Azithromycin, and right now we're doing Azithromycin every 3 days. He said he'd like to keep her on it like that for an additional 5 weeks, then wait 4-5 weeks after that to make SURE she's cleared up, before getting her spayed. I like this guy, he admitted he needed to read up on treating these particular diseases, since apparently not many people get PCR panels so most things are kind of assumed to be herpes virus. He emailed me the information he was reading about (I told him I was big on feline health) and said after going over it we miiight have to re-think the Azithromycin, there was a case study done that shows most cats don't clear up from chlamydia on it, so if it DOESN'T work, he has as backup plan of using doxycycline or Clavamox for 5 weeks. I read that mysoplasma is treated with Doxy so I'd be leaning toward that but I think he's hoping the Azithromycin can do it on its own, so we don't risk tooth discoloration from the Doxy.

His emails, sans the attachment about the diseases:

Please see forwarded email regarding calicivirus in cats. Viral shedding can persist for along time. Prognosis is good for respiratory infection, less good if stomatitis (oral ulcers). I dont think there will be much to worry about moving forward which is good.

So I guess calicivirus can cause stomatitis?? But he's not concerned hopefully?

This forwarded email is about chlamydia in cats - we may need to revisit this as azithromycin doesn't always clear so if there is a relapse, consider clavamox for 5 weeks or doxycycline. This can be our back up plan if needed.

All in all she's good, eyes are cleared up, no sniffling. Can't be trusted yet though!

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Awww bless her little heart and your BIG heart!

 

[Panic]

Hopefully she'll clear up just fine! I sure am glad she's not on eye drops/ointment anymore, I'm going out of town tomorrow for several days, my brother will be watching her and she requires two people to get stuff put in her eyes.

I did let the spay/neuter director know and mentioned the results may benefit her mom/brothers if they're also fighting URIs still.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I'm so glad you found out and that things will clear up, give scritches to Gyda
for me

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

I'm glad you have a plan in place, Elizabeth.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Very interesting thread to read Elizabeth. It sounds as if you have found a keeper vet. That’s great! So good to know what you are dealing with and have a plan. What a lucky kitty to have found you!!!

There are some antibiotics that discolour human children’s teeth as well.

Sending a plane load of strong Aussie Healing vines to your little treasure! She is gorgeous!

 

[Panic]

Thank you all! It feels good finally knowing what we're dealing with - and now I don't feel so bad for struggling so much, who would have thought.

The director said she is definitely going to reach out to her family's adopters with the results which makes me happy because even though I couldn't adopt their cute little faces too I can still help and save them money from getting their own panels done. These were some really sick cats brought in!!

Accepting all the positive vibes for a successful recovery in the upcoming weeks!

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Positive vibes coming from the desert south west!

 

[Critter Mom]

Very educational thread, people! Thank you.

Elizabeth, more healing vibes coming your way from the Shire.




Mogs
.

 

[Gill & Mac (UK)]

Elizabeth
Hugs & healing vibes from our bit of the UK too.
She is one pretty kitty cat !

Gill