? - 9/14 Henri PMPS 166, +3 282, +4 269 +5 214, +6 212, +7 168, +8 149 AM hypo, hypo again tonight? | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

? 9/14 Henri PMPS 166, +3 282, +4 269 +5 214, +6 212, +7 168, +8 149 AM hypo, hypo again tonight?

Katie_Waz

Katie_Waz

Member since 2020
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-286-bounce-high-numbers.235147/#post-2633526

So, I was advised on here to raise Henri's dose back up to 1 unit of Lantus on 9/12 PM shot. I was warned about potential high numbers for the first 24 hours but now I am in to +2 of her morning shot (36 hours from increasing her dose) and her numbers are down to 125. Should I be concerned of a hypo event? She ate about an 80 calorie breakfast at dosing time and gets lunch in 3 hours (at +5).

I'm sure I'm just being a nervous momma and I know I want those healing blues and greens everyone keeps talking about but I guess I just need a little reassurance that everything is OK? I'm not used to her being in those healing numbers and even though they are healing, they make me nervous.

So I'm thinking I should keep a close eye on her bc of her low numbers so early in the cycle.

Am I right in this is how I should handle the drop?
Once she tests at 50, I should feed her MC-HC food 1 tsp every 20 min and test? Once she is showing an upward trend (2 consecutive increases) I can monitor every half hour and once she reaches 70 she's safe again?

and with dosing her with her PMPS if she is in an upward trend, whats the lowest number that it's safe to dose at? and if she's not in an upward trend, what number should I not dose at and use the "stall" thing

I know a lot can happen in just a few hours but I am compiling a notebook of facts and things to remember lol

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OG2DE6K4Qn7i8E1vlvwgISq4hp_Pv9_8b-80OdX7zts/edit?usp=sharing
 
Someone else with more experience may weigh in (I don't see many online right now) - but my two cents are below (short answer is you and Henri are doing great :bighug:).

Looking at your SS, looks like Henri bounced up a little bit from those healing numbers yesterday and is back to the healing numbers today - this is a great thing :) 126 on a Human meter is a safe healing number :cool: but you are right to keep an eye on her since this is new territory.

Sounds like you have been reading the sticky on low numbers - great job :) Generally, HC is saved for <50 so you can try MC first in the 50s. Every cat is different (ECID) so there is some learning of how your cat and how Henri will react to the carbs. Remember, it takes 20-30 minutes for the carbs to register in the blood glucose so patience is key (I have none lol).

And I'm still new here but every new color number freaked me out the first time I saw it. You will get used to it :bighug: And you are keeping Henri safe with your testing and can intervene with food if needed!

Keep posting questions and updates. You are doing great!
 
She dropped to 47! I have her 1 tsp of fancy feast gravy lovers. She is ravenous. I don't want to feed her too much too fast. I'll test her in a few min and I think continue to giver her 1 tsp of gravy lovers every 20 min?

I'm not sure what number i'm trying to get up to before I stop with the food
 
JaxBenji said:
Someone else with more experience may weigh in (I don't see many online right now) - but my two cents are below (short answer is you and Henri are doing great :bighug:).

Looking at your SS, looks like Henri bounced up a little bit from those healing numbers yesterday and is back to the healing numbers today - this is a great thing :) 126 on a Human meter is a safe healing number :cool: but you are right to keep an eye on her since this is new territory.

Sounds like you have been reading the sticky on low numbers - great job :) Generally, HC is saved for <50 so you can try MC first in the 50s. Every cat is different (ECID) so there is some learning of how your cat and how Henri will react to the carbs. Remember, it takes 20-30 minutes for the carbs to register in the blood glucose so patience is key (I have none lol).

And I'm still new here but every new color number freaked me out the first time I saw it. You will get used to it :bighug: And you are keeping Henri safe with your testing and can intervene with food if needed!

Keep posting questions and updates. You are doing great!
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Thanks! I'm waiting for someone to respond. She is officially HYPO and i'm trying not to panic. She just ate 1 tsp of HC fancy feast gravy lovers. I test her again in a few min. I'm not sure what number i'm trying to get her back up to and when I should start giving her LC foods. Lunch for her isnt until 2 more hours
 
Katie_Waz said:
Thanks! I'm waiting for someone to respond. She is officially HYPO and i'm trying not to panic. She just ate 1 tsp of HC fancy feast gravy lovers. I test her again in a few min. I'm not sure what number i'm trying to get her back up to and when I should start giving her LC foods. Lunch for her isnt until 2 more hours
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You can try linking your thread on the fb page and then ask if someone can look.

I wish I could help, I'm just sending hugs!:bighug:
 
Did you test again? I think you want to get her up over 50 then keep feeding her small amounts after that and keep repeating till she has 2 tests over 50...Then keep feeding small amounts...and test again. I think you're doing everything right. Hopefully you'll get help soon!
 
She was ravenous and restless. Just tested her 20 min after 1 tsp of HC food and she's up to 69. Still hungry but no longer restless. Should I give her any more HC food, or should I giver LC food? Or nothing and test in 20to see if she is on an upward trend
 
Mandy S said:
Did you test again? I think you want to get her up over 50 then keep feeding her small amounts after that and keep repeating till she has 2 tests over 50...Then keep feeding small amounts...and test again. I think you're doing everything right. Hopefully you'll get help soon!
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so feed her another tsp of HC food and test again? or should I do low carb food now that shes tested at 69
 
Katie_Waz said:
She was ravenous and restless. Just tested her 20 min after 1 tsp of HC food and she's up to 69. Still hungry but no longer restless. Should I give her any more HC food, or should I giver LC food? Or nothing and test in 20to see if she is on an upward trend
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I think you want a 2nd test over 50...per the guideline sticky. Is it time for a 2nd test yet?
 
If she'll eat, give her a little more food and retest. You're using a human meter, correct? So you want to get her up and hold her above 50.
Is there any signs of confusion, lethargy, glazed eyes, stumbling when she walks, etc?
Oh, and don't forget to take a second and update your spreadsheet with the latest numbers.
 
Katie_Waz said:
so feed her another tsp of HC food and test again? or should I do low carb food now that shes tested at 69
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I think the high carb because she'll get a boost from the food, then maybe go back down. I think the idea is to keep her steadily going up.
 
Katie_Waz said:
OK, so she jumped up on the kitchen table and found the can of HC food I had opened. probably ate 1-2 more tsp of food. She is definitely hungry. I'm wondering if I should switch her to LC food if her next test is up? I test again in 10 min
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I think I'd not let her have any more food and retest again when it's time. But I have no idea if that's what you should do!
 
Good number. Now we'll see if she is stable, and you can switch her to lower carb food. After all, you don't want her sky high at her next shot time.
And I think you've already guessed that this means you back down again in her dose.
 
That was my next question. I had backed down on her dose but then was told her numbers weren't good at that dose and I only just raised it the other day. It's OK to be going up and down like that?
Should I wait for her next test to give her LC food or do it now
 
Katie_Waz said:
I updated my spreadsheet although I'm not sure how to do the "in between the hours" numbers. I test again in 2 min. her +3.3 test was 69
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I think you did it right, you have to manually put in the color though when you add the extra numbers. The little paint can looking icon for fill color.
 
You can do a spoon of LC. Don't let her fill up, in case the high carb food wears off later on and her numbers come back down.

For "in between" numbers, you can do fractions. 1/2 hour after would 3.5. You can put multiple entries in a cell, but you will have to manually colour them with the paintcan tool. So in the +3, put 47; 69@3.3; 72@3.6.

Couple of housekeeping requests. Since she's above 50 and you have help, please remove the 911, which we save for medical emergencies. Please keep the subject line up to date, so we know she's safe now. Sounds like this was low numbers, but no other hypo symptoms?

I'm glad Karen popped in! :)
 
Hi. You have had an exciting morning. Feed her a little lc now. I’m going to read through the thread. The first under 50 Is scary. I’m glad for you it happened during a day cycle. Wendy and I cross posted.
 
Katie_Waz said:
That was my next question. I had backed down on her dose but then was told her numbers weren't good at that dose and I only just raised it the other day. It's OK to be going up and down like that?
Should I wait for her next test to give her LC food or do it now
Click to expand...

It’s definitely ok to be going up and down. That’s why it’s called the sugar dance. Sounds like she was not having a symptomatic hypo but rather low numbers. Max was in the 30’s more than once but never had symptoms. Under 50 is the take action time when you feed hc or a few drops of honey or syrup with the hc. It takes 20-30 minutes for it to kick in and then you test again. Rinse, lather, repeat until 2 tests over 50 and then switch to lc. You want her staying up into at least 60’s or 70’s without food for two hours before it’s safe to leave her alone. Someone will keep checking and guiding you to let you know what to do.

Congrtats on the reduction. Her dose is now .75 again.
 
Thank you all for your help! I'll change out the 911 and fix up my spreadsheet. her +4 is 75 so I just gave her some LC food that she is going to town on.
 
KarenRamboConan said:
Good number. Now we'll see if she is stable, and you can switch her to lower carb food. After all, you don't want her sky high at her next shot time.
And I think you've already guessed that this means you back down again in her dose.
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Is it OK to lower it again when it was just raised a day ago? Is that dangerous to be going up and down so frequently with insulin? and what dose should I lower to? .75 again?
 
tiffmaxee said:
You can check her again in an hour. She cleared that bounce in a dramatic way.
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Will do. Should I be expecting very high numbers again like the last time when she went low and then we lowered her dose? I think that was a bounce too?
 
S
tiffmaxee said:
It’s definitely ok to be going up and down. That’s why it’s called the sugar dance. Sounds like she was not having a symptomatic hypo but rather low numbers. Max was in the 30’s more than once but never had symptoms. Under 50 is the take action time when you feed hc or a few drops of honey or syrup with the hc. It takes 20-30 minutes for it to kick in and then you test again. Rinse, lather, repeat until 2 tests over 50 and then switch to lc. You want her staying up into at least 60’s or 70’s without food for two hours before it’s safe to leave her alone. Someone will keep checking and guiding you to let you know what to do.

Congrtats on the reduction. Her dose is now .75 again.
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so should I hold off on food then? I just gave her a little LC food. She normally eats in 1 hour but I can feed her again in 2 hours if need be
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You can do a spoon of LC. Don't let her fill up, in case the high carb food wears off later on and her numbers come back down.

For "in between" numbers, you can do fractions. 1/2 hour after would 3.5. You can put multiple entries in a cell, but you will have to manually colour them with the paintcan tool. So in the +3, put 47; 69@3.3; 72@3.6.

Couple of housekeeping requests. Since she's above 50 and you have help, please remove the 911, which we save for medical emergencies. Please keep the subject line up to date, so we know she's safe now. Sounds like this was low numbers, but no other hypo symptoms?

I'm glad Karen popped in! :)
Click to expand...
nope..other than being ravenous and restless and vocal (which is always what happens when she's hungry) She was a little of balance but that's how shes been since coming back from the vet. I think she got a little weak being cooped up in the cage for a week. It's mainly when she's jumping down from things that you see it. Like her back legs are a little weak maybe?
 
Katie_Waz said:
S

so should I hold off on food then? I just gave her a little LC food. She normally eats in 1 hour but I can feed her again in 2 hours if need be
Click to expand...

You can feed her lc as normal. I just wanted you to know you shouldn’t plan on stopping the testing until she’s good for 2 hours without food.
 
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Katie_Waz said:
nope..other than being ravenous and restless and vocal (which is always what happens when she's hungry) She was a little of balance but that's how shes been since coming back from the vet. I think she got a little weak being cooped up in the cage for a week. It's mainly when she's jumping down from things that you see it. Like her back legs are a little weak maybe?
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The weak legs could be neuropathy. I need to find the video of it to show you. They often get ravenous when their numbers get low. That’s good for us because we need them to eat carbs to bring the bg back up. It’s more difficult to do that without an appetite.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You can do a spoon of LC. Don't let her fill up, in case the high carb food wears off later on and her numbers come back down.

For "in between" numbers, you can do fractions. 1/2 hour after would 3.5. You can put multiple entries in a cell, but you will have to manually colour them with the paintcan tool. So in the +3, put 47; 69@3.3; 72@3.6.

Couple of housekeeping requests. Since she's above 50 and you have help, please remove the 911, which we save for medical emergencies. Please keep the subject line up to date, so we know she's safe now. Sounds like this was low numbers, but no other hypo symptoms?

I'm glad Karen popped in! :)
Click to expand...
I tested her at 3.5 and she went down from 75 to 73. I'm continuing to give her LC food but she only eats a little but at a time. That is normal for her though. Is her dropping down 2 points anything to worry about? Is she on her way back down or could that just be that 20% difference thing i keep hearing about
 
tiffmaxee said:
She can graze all day if that is normal for her. Just pick up the food two hours before pmps.
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My goal is to eventually let her graze but with the fly situation right now it's just not an option. Im in the process of updating my SS but she dropped a little.
I guess I'll continue to offer her food based on her numbers? What is a safe low number to give her, her insulin shot this evening?
+5@85
+5.5@73
fed some more LC food
+6@ 95
 
since I've been giving food to help keep her numbers up until they rise on their own, and I will be doing a dose reduction tonight (down to .75) my new question is, what low number is it safe for me to dose her with insulin tonight
 
If under 200, post for guidance. Being new if over 150 it’s probably safe to shoot but you want to make sure someone will be able to stay with you. If you feel at all nervous, stall, don’t feed and ask for help. A +11 will be helpful to see if she’s on her way back up.

I’d print out the sticky in handling low preshots. I used to read it a lot.
 
Katie_Waz said:
That was my next question. I had backed down on her dose but then was told her numbers weren't good at that dose and I only just raised it the other day. It's OK to be going up and down like that?
Click to expand...

You don't really have much of a choice. She went too low, and you can't let that happen, so that means the dose was too high.
Really good catch, by the way. Well done! :cat:
 
I printed out a bunch of stickys. I'm going to read through and highlight them. I'm going to make a shortened simplified cheat sheet for my husband with how to handle the hypo. I shot a few days ago with the lowered dose of .75 U at 152 and she was fine so I guess I'll use 150 as my safe to shoot number but I'll probably still post for guidance lol I'll take a look at the stickys to make sure I printed that one out. Thank you!
Can I ask you another question? I'm feeding her a little LC food since he numbers got into the 70's. Ive been testing her every 30 min (which she only minded the once when I couldnt get blood lol) but her numbers have been going up and down from 73-96 from her +4 to her +7. Is that all part of that 20% meter variance still? or are the numbers changing bc I'm feeding little bits in between. It's all in my SS with how much I fed in between. I think the numbers are going down and back up again bc possibly of the food I am giving her? Is that OK? I think she should be on her way up within the next hour or 2 based on her numbers from other days.
 
Katie_Waz said:
I printed out a bunch of stickys. I'm going to read through and highlight them. I'm going to make a shortened simplified cheat sheet for my husband with how to handle the hypo. I shot a few days ago with the lowered dose of .75 U at 152 and she was fine so I guess I'll use 150 as my safe to shoot number but I'll probably still post for guidance lol I'll take a look at the stickys to make sure I printed that one out. Thank you!
Can I ask you another question? I'm feeding her a little LC food since he numbers got into the 70's. Ive been testing her every 30 min (which she only minded the once when I couldnt get blood lol) but her numbers have been going up and down from 73-96 from her +4 to her +7. Is that all part of that 20% meter variance still? or are the numbers changing bc I'm feeding little bits in between. It's all in my SS with how much I fed in between. I think the numbers are going down and back up again bc possibly of the food I am giving her? Is that OK? I think she should be on her way up within the next hour or 2 based on her numbers from other days.
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She’s probably dropping a little but not too much. This is a pancreas healing cycle. Normal bg for a cat is roughly 50-120 on a human meter. It’s exact What you want to see. In fact another way to earn a reduction is being between 50-100 for a week.

You really don’t need to test every 30 minutes. Try an hour next time.
 
On this forum, we use a preshot value of under 150 as the number where you stop, do not feed or shoot, and post for help, if you are following TR.

Here is a post on Neuropathy, with links to videos.

Note that a cat's insulin needs can vary over time. Their pancreatic beta cells have the unique ability to heal, provided they spend enough time in healing numbers to give those beta cells a chance to recover. That does mean dose needs can change. With healing, the beta cells produce more insulin on their own, and less injected insulin is needed. And if the cat stays at a dose that is just resulting in high numbers for too long, their body gets used to it, and it can cause glucose toxicity that results in beta cell loss. Glucose toxicity is a type of insulin resistance and needs more insulin to break through it.

Printing out the sticky notes is an excellent idea. There could even be a time when the power goes out and you lose connection to the internet. I had to test and shoot a couple times by flashlight.
 
I have to second that...PRINT out the notes on how to handle lower numbers as suggested by Elise and Wendy earlier today.

I'm sorry I wasn't available...work is always in the way! :) Glad you were able to get her numbers up.
 
tiffmaxee said:
She’s probably dropping a little but not too much. This is a pancreas healing cycle. Normal bg for a cat is roughly 50-120 on a human meter. It’s exact What you want to see. In fact another way to earn a reduction is being between 50-100 for a week.

You really don’t need to test every 30 minutes. Try an hour next time.
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Thanks! I just get so nervous. I told my husband if her +1 and +2 tomorrow morning are worrisome like they were today, that I'm taking off of the 2nd job lol

I updated her chart and i'll update the post title,but I gave her the .75 dose when her PS was 166. She ate well though (77 calories). I've dosed 152 before I think?

Does bringing her up more slowly like I did today decrease the chance of her bouncing? A few weeks ago was my first low number (66) and I panicked and gave her a ton of food lol I didnt realize at the time that only 1 tsp every 15-20 min was needed. She came up quickly and much higher and then was bouncing like crazy
 
Sue and Luci said:
I have to second that...PRINT out the notes on how to handle lower numbers as suggested by Elise and Wendy earlier today.

I'm sorry I wasn't available...work is always in the way! :) Glad you were able to get her numbers up.
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I printed them out last night and had basically studied them lol
I was in panic mode though and going off memory lol
No worries...everyone has gotta work lol I told my husband that I may take off the 2nd job if her +1 and +2 in the morning are worrisome like today. They have been VERY sympathetic about my kitty being sick and i'm babysitting to give the mom a break which means they can survive without me. The morning babysitting job needs me bc they both work
 
Wendy&Neko said:
On this forum, we use a preshot value of under 150 as the number where you stop, do not feed or shoot, and post for help, if you are following TR.

Here is a post on Neuropathy, with links to videos.

Note that a cat's insulin needs can vary over time. Their pancreatic beta cells have the unique ability to heal, provided they spend enough time in healing numbers to give those beta cells a chance to recover. That does mean dose needs can change. With healing, the beta cells produce more insulin on their own, and less injected insulin is needed. And if the cat stays at a dose that is just resulting in high numbers for too long, their body gets used to it, and it can cause glucose toxicity that results in beta cell loss. Glucose toxicity is a type of insulin resistance and needs more insulin to break through it.

Printing out the sticky notes is an excellent idea. There could even be a time when the power goes out and you lose connection to the internet. I had to test and shoot a couple times by flashlight.
Click to expand...

I dosed her today at 166 so I feel a bit better knowing that.Her +1 is 271. She also ate a 77 cal meal right after her dose. That's very interesting about the healing process! And that makes sense about why you want to get low without getting too low...so things can heal. It's also interesting that my vet wants higher numbers than TR calls for. My vet doesn't ever want to see anything below 80 but Ideally she says kitty should stay between 100 and 225 for 18 hours a day. I know from personal experience that although vets mean well, they don't always know what's best...and just like human Dr's there are good ones and bad ones. I learned this the hard way with my epileptic kitty. This forum is truly amazing and so helpful!
 
Does bringing her up more slowly like I did today decrease the chance of her bouncing? A few weeks ago was my first low number (66) and I panicked and gave her a ton of food lol I didnt realize at the time that only 1 tsp every 15-20 min was needed. She came up quickly and much higher and then was bouncing like crazy[/QUOTE]

Sometimes brining them up slowly prevents a high bounce, sometimes it doesn’t. It does allow a better chance to keep them in normal numbers longer which means fewer bounces and quicker clearing. For most. Some cats bounce all the way to OTJ!

You were fine to shoot. I told you to post more for your benefit than his. With TR people shoot with bg of 50 when they have enough data and feel confident.
 
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