? Homemade/Raw Diet - Bones or Premix?

[Panic]

So I've been reading Dr. Pierson's Making Cat Food page for a while trying to soak in all the knowledge. One thing that stood out to me what how she preferred getting a grinder and using fresh bones - however I feel like most of the members here on a homemade diet are using premixes/bone meal instead. Why is that? Convenience? Not wanting a grinder? Cheaper? Is there a danger to using boned meat despite grinding it?

Another question - Dr. Pierson lists her recipe as chicken OR rabbit. Is it recommended to alternate the protein, or is it fine sticking with chicken the whole time? What meat do you use? Is any type from a local grocery okay or does it have to be organic etc?

Might have more questions as I read, just looking for clarification on some stuff.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

A grinder that can handle bones (especially big ones like rabbit bones can be) has to be a tough machine....and those don't come cheap.

Also, bone is high in phosphorus and since most of our diabetic cats are older and have at least some kidney disease, limiting phosphorus helps take some of the strain off the kidneys.

The Pre-mixes like EZ Complete use egg shell for their calcium which is easier on the kidneys.

Most people who feed raw rotate the protein source, usually at least 3 different types.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I used two different types of premix, TC Complete Special (for CKD cats) and FoodFurLife. Both for the lower phosphorus of added eggshell calcium. I know some people who save eggs and make their own with mixes.

Types of meat I bought and made food with are chicken, turkey, venison, buffalo, elk, lamb. Rabbit was hard to come by. If I wanted, other options around here are goat, kangaroo, camel, ostrich, pork or wild boar. Luckily I live 5 minutes away from an exotic meat butcher and one of the local grocery stores carries some options too. I also have a raw pet food store nearby that brings in exotic frozen meats. I preferred the butcher cause it would be fresh and I didn't have to thaw, add premix, then freeze again. You do want to make sure wherever you buy the meat has good quality and clean processes. I preferred the organic meats for Neko - she ate better that I did. I typically rotated 4 proteins, and I usually swapped out some of the "cool" meats for "hot" ones during the winter.

If you want a kitty to have a bit of bone, chicken necks or wing tips are good "chew toys".

 

[Panic]

Interesting! And how often should proteins be rotated? Will have to do some reading about other premixes - or could you make your own premix?

 

[Panic]

Another question - Dr. Pierson mentioned that Bones = calcium and Meat = Phosphorus. But if we're concerned about phosphorus why are we focusing on the bones?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

She also mentions that she doesn't recommend her diet for CKD kitties. There is phosphorus in bones too. You still want the calcium, so replacing the bones with something else is a way to reduce phosphorus for cats that need a reduced phosphorus diet. Neko had CKD, my civvie had idiopathic cystitis, both benefit from lower phosphorus. Some meats are higher in phosphorus too, though not a huge difference. For example, kangaroo is higher phosphorus.

I rotated one new protein a day, basically I froze 24 hours worth of food in one package. I've heard of others switching AM vs PM.

 

[Panic]

Thank you, Wendy! I don't have any CKD kitties but with how common it ends up being maybe it's smarter to avoid high phos from the get-go.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Before Neko got CKD, she got raw with bones in it. I didn't switch until I had to.

 

[Panic]

So you think unless any of my kitties end up with CKD it'd be fine sticking with meat w/ bones?
The cost of a grinder isn't an issue to me.

Is beef not a recommended protein?

Dr. Pierson might have answered that and I just haven't gotten there yet haha. Slowly digesting all the info. Found it lol

Chicken is cheap but all the other proteins seem on the high side ... or rather, it makes it so it's not as cost-effective as feeding canned like implied.

 

[Dusty & Roe]

So I've been reading Dr. Pierson's Making Cat Food page for a while trying to soak in all the knowledge. One thing that stood out to me what how she preferred getting a grinder and using fresh bones - however I feel like most of the members here on a homemade diet are using premixes/bone meal instead. Why is that? Convenience? Not wanting a grinder? Cheaper? Is there a danger to using boned meat despite grinding it?

Another question - Dr. Pierson lists her recipe as chicken OR rabbit. Is it recommended to alternate the protein, or is it fine sticking with chicken the whole time? What meat do you use? Is any type from a local grocery okay or does it have to be organic etc?

Might have more questions as I read, just looking for clarification on some stuff.

Hey Elizabeth I have to ask what is making you think of switching? I keep talking to people about this and get so many different answers that I m not sure lol I’m not a fan of many cat foods and like this idea but I e heard so many Pro’s and Con’s how about you ? Anyone else feel free to jump in too

 

[katiesmom]

So you think unless any of my kitties end up with CKD it'd be fine sticking with meat w/ bones?
The cost of a grinder isn't an issue to me.

Is beef not a recommended protein?

Dr. Pierson might have answered that and I just haven't gotten there yet haha. Slowly digesting all the info. Found it lol

Chicken is cheap but all the other proteins seem on the high side ... or rather, it makes it so it's not as cost-effective as feeding canned like implied.

As for the bones.....I have feeding raw for 13 years. The last 8 years I have been making it myself, following Dr. Pierson's recipe. When I initially switched the girls to raw, I was buying Feline's Pride, who, at the time, was the closest thing to Dr, Pierson's recipe you could buy, and it had bones.

I did not like the bones, for many reasons. They were sharp, and I always worried about the girls ingesting them. I would literally go through their food pulling out the ones that I felt were to large or too sharp. Bones are also very constipating.

I switched to bone meal and found it much better. Then I switched to eggshell, which is lower in phosphorus, and that is what I use now.
I can give you the link to where I buy the eggshell, and they also sell a pre mix too. They recommend Dr. Lisa's diet also. What is also nice, the tell you exactly how much eggshell to add, no guesswork or complicated math.
Alternative Nutrition- https://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/index.html

 

[Panic]

Hey Elizabeth I have to ask what is making you think of switching? I keep talking to people about this and get so many different answers that I m not sure lol I’m not a fan of many cat foods and like this idea but I e heard so many Pro’s and Con’s how about you ? Anyone else feel free to jump in too

Hi Roe! I've been interested in the idea for a while, just kind of assumed it would be very time-consuming and expensive. I liked the idea of making it myself and not having to worry about the questionable canned food ingredients like gums and such. Looking into it, it looks like it only takes an hour or so to make a batch, and the breakdown shows it only costs like $0.66 a day versus $1+ depending on the cat food you're feeding. My tomcat eats Friskies and that's over $1 a day so I thought why not?

But the thing I'm seeing now is the $0.66 a day is only for chicken protein ... if you're supposed to be rotating it out, well nothing is as cheap as chicken. I checked and don't have any local butchers so I'd have to order it online and it's looking to be $5-$15 per lb depending on the protein ... making it quite a bit more expensive than canned. If it were just my two cats I think I'd do it anyway, but I have 2 dogs to also feed + my mom's 3 cats (who no doubt would want to share). :/ Using premixes and/or bone meal add to the cost too. So now I'm like hmmmm.

I switched to bone meal and found it much better. Then I switched to eggshell, which is lower in phosphorus, and that is what I use now.

Thanks for your input! What is the cost of using eggshell powder, how long does it last? Are you able to make your own eggshell mix rather than buying? I hate to say money is a contributing factor but with multiple mouths to feed it makes it harder to splurge.

 

[katiesmom]

Hi Roe! I've been interested in the idea for a while, just kind of assumed it would be very time-consuming and expensive. I liked the idea of making it myself and not having to worry about the questionable canned food ingredients like gums and such. Looking into it, it looks like it only takes an hour or so to make a batch, and the breakdown shows it only costs like $0.66 a day versus $1+ depending on the cat food you're feeding. My tomcat eats Friskies and that's over $1 a day so I thought why not?

But the thing I'm seeing now is the $0.66 a day is only for chicken protein ... if you're supposed to be rotating it out, well nothing is as cheap as chicken. I checked and don't have any local butchers so I'd have to order it online and it's looking to be $5-$15 per lb depending on the protein ... making it quite a bit more expensive than canned. If it were just my two cats I think I'd do it anyway, but I have 2 dogs to also feed + my mom's 3 cats (who no doubt would want to share). :/ Using premixes and/or bone meal add to the cost too. So now I'm like hmmmm.


Thanks for your input! What is the cost of using eggshell powder, how long does it last? Are you able to make your own eggshell mix rather than buying? I hate to say money is a contributing factor but with multiple mouths to feed it makes it harder to splurge.

You can probably make your own eggshell mix, but that seems like a lot of work and I am not sure how you would figure out how much to use. You can google it. When I was researching it, eggshell powder is not universal, they vary for amount of calcium.

The powder I use is $5.95 a bag, 7.1 oz. (34 tsps) in bag. It's one tsp for 2.4 lbs. of meat. So if you are using 5 lbs of meat, that would be about 2 tsp. You would get 17 batches from one bag of eggshell, about 35 cents for a batch (using 5 lbs of meat). It lasts quite a while.

BTW, I only use chicken, I don't rotate proteins.
Don't forget when figuring cost, you also add water and liver to food, which brings up the weight. I add more water than the recipe calls for, so by the time I add it all up, a 5lb. batch will yield me about 7- 7.5 lbs of food.

 

[Panic]

The powder I use is $5.95 a bag, 7.1 oz. (34 tsps) in bag. It's one tsp for 2.4 lbs. of meat. So if you are using 5 lbs of meat, that would be about 2 tsp. You would get 17 batches from one bag of eggshell, about 35 cents for a batch (using 5 lbs of meat). It lasts quite a while.

I'm not the best at math but is that something like two bags of eggshell powder a year? That's not bad at all.

BTW, I only use chicken, I don't rotate proteins.
Don't forget when figuring cost, you also add water and liver to food, which brings up the weight. I add more water than the recipe calls for, so by the time I add it all up, a 5lb. batch will yield me about 7- 7.5 lbs of food.

Oh didn't think about that, thanks!

I feel like I could swing turkey in addition to chicken in a rotation but the third protein is what's getting me. Can't believe we don't have any butchers around (shouldn't surprise me honestly, nearest big city is +1 away). Thanks for letting me know you just use one protein.

Do you have a grinder then since you don't use bones, or just a food processor?

 

[katiesmom]

I'm not the best at math but is that something like two bags of eggshell powder a year? That's not bad at all.


Oh didn't think about that, thanks!

I feel like I could swing turkey in addition to chicken in a rotation but the third protein is what's getting me. Can't believe we don't have any butchers around (shouldn't surprise me honestly, nearest big city is +1 away). Thanks for letting me know you just use one protein.

Do you have a grinder then since you don't use bones, or just a food processor?

Yeah, probably about that. I looked at my receipts when I purchased, and it appears it took me about 7-8 months to go through one package. That was making 15 lb. batches every 2- 3 weeks.
I use a small grinder. I have used a small food processor in the past if I needed to whip up a small batch.

 

[Panic]

Yeah, probably about that. I looked at my receipts when I purchased, and it appears it took me about 7-8 months to go through one package. That was making 15 lb. batches every 2- 3 weeks.
I use a small grinder. I have used a small food processor in the past if I needed to whip up a small batch.

Thanks so much! One last question - which grinder is it? Is it the Tason that Dr. Pierson recommended or something else? Oh, and how many kitties do you feed raw?

 

[katiesmom]

Thanks so much! One last question - which grinder is it? Is it the Tason that Dr. Pierson recommended or something else? Oh, and how many kitties do you feed raw?

Sure thing. Yes, I have a Tasin. Have had it for 8 years. And I have been making food for 2 kitties. Anything else I can help you with, just holler. I am no expert, but I have been doing this for a while.

 

[Panic]

Sure thing. Yes, I have a Tasin. Have had it for 8 years. And I have been making food for 2 kitties. Anything else I can help you with, just holler. I am no expert, but I have been doing this for a while.

Thank you again! Super appreciate it, I'll let you know if I think of anything else xD Very helpful!