Struggling

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Gill & Mac (UK)

Gill & Mac (UK)

Member Since 2020
I feel pretty pathetic compared to all the tough kitty health problems others have been tackling so well and for so much longer but things seem to be getting harder and I am struggling mentally.
I always have done (mostly)OK with Mac's shots bar the odd fur shot here and there when he moved sharply. But then we did then BG curve ourselves that the vet wanted after his dose had been increased rather than letting him be at the vets for the time. It was only the second curve and we did better this time - i freehanded and we managed to get all 7 tests. It did get tougher as it went along with Mac getting more stressed each time and having to be restrained more. Despite cuddles and singing.
That was during Saturday and since then giving his shots has been harder with him shying away every time I get the tent ready. We do the shots whilst feeding him on the breakfast bar & I am having to stop several times, let him settle and start again
We have tried feeding him on the bar every single meal (not just shot time) with lots of fusses and praise while he eats. And when I do the shots I am trying to check for no furshot before pressing the plunger. But have still had 2 ones or at least partial ones in the last 5 shots
The vet looked at the curve and was going to increase his dose as the extra 0.5 had not reduced the level of the curve much (I had got a full shot in that day) and a lot of hours were still well above the wanted range and v high at the start.
But instead after a discussion decided on a swap to prozinc (which he would have given us originally if not for the shortage at the time) as he said its easier longer curve works better when stabilising.
But swapping is not going to work if I keep being a failure at the shots.
I am concerned how many mess ups I can have before it seriously impacts Mac - he has been fine so far & full of bounce but if he keeps missing a shot (or part of one) every few times what will it do to him - will he go downhill straightaway back to his worst?
Has anyone else had problems with their cat being unsettled after doing a full curve and how long did it take them to get over it? And any tips for how made them forget it ? If we can get him past this any future curves can be done at the vets so we don't face it again (same thing happened after we did the first curve but just for a day or so but he is staying wary this time).
Sorry for the long rambling post but every time I think I can do this something else kicks me down. As I say I know others are dealing with and coping with so much more & I am sorry to be on such a downer but the idea that I can help my kitty so easily ie just give him his shot correctly every time but keep failing him is so hard to take.
Any tips to get him past this would be so appreciated.
Thanks:(
 
We all do the best we can. You are no different. Are you giving a treat after each attempt? I'm not the best to comment because the shot itself was easy to give. Trouble never really felt it. What gauge needle are you using? I think the higher the number the finer the needle???
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
We all do the best we can. You are no different. Are you giving a treat after each attempt? I'm not the best to comment because the shot itself was easy to give. Trouble never really felt it. What gauge needle are you using? I think the higher the number the finer the needle???
Click to expand...

We're treating before, during and after lol - he uis eating his meal at the same time & loves his food. He just keeps shying away each time I make the tent as he is nervy now of what is coming. We are on the standard U40 syringes. This morning it took time and patience and a couple of pause, let the tent go and start again and got it done. Tonight i did the same and he moved at exactly the last moment so partial fur shot.
Gill
 
Did you make the swap to Prozinc yet, Gill?

If yes, has Mac's reluctance to stay still for his injections got worse since the switch?

Also, is he exhibiting unusual behaviours at any other time?


Mogs
.
 
Hi
No we haven't made the swap yet (going to tomorrow). His injection wariness has been since Sunday(day after curve )
All his other behaviour is exactly the same as last week - still loving & wanting fusses & brushing. Eating well,full of energy & like his old pre diabetes kitty self still.
The only difference is at shot time when he is "huh I know what u r up to now -- shot not ears but im still not gonna just ignore what u r doing anymore & make it easy to do" !! Bit like a cat who has learned to scared of a balloon staying twitchy when they see one.

Ps heading to sleep now as work tomorrow so if I don't reply to any questions I'm not ignoring them and will reply in the morning.:facepalm:
 
Last edited:
Are you using U40 syringes, Gill?

Leaving that there else I'll forget to ask (major problems with working memory :( ).


Gill & Mac (UK) said:
Eating well,full of energy & like his old pre diabetes kitty self still.
Click to expand...
That sounds to me like a kitty whose mama is doing an awful lot of things right! :)

Wishing you a good night's sleep, Gill. Things will look better in the morning.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Gill & Mac (UK) said:
This morning it took time and patience and a couple of pause, let the tent go and start again and got it done.
Click to expand...

Hi Gill,
I think this is exactly the right approach. Another thing you can do is to tent throughout the day to get Mac used to the feeling of renting without the needle.

I also give Mouse her shot at random locations in the house, so she doesn't associate it with one spot. (I didn't want her associating it with food if I messed it up and hurt her too)

One question though, are you changing the location of each shot, or are you doing it roughly in the same spot? Doing it in the same spot over and over can cause scaring, I believe. Other folks, please correct me if I'm wrong. I do know that you're not supposed to use the same location all the time though.
 
Gill & Mac (UK) said:
This morning it took time and patience and a couple of pause, let the tent go and start again and got it done.
Click to expand...

Hi Gill,
I think this is exactly the right approach. Another thing you can do is to tent throughout the day to get Mac used to the feeling of renting without the needle.

I also give Mouse her shot at random locations in the house, so she doesn't associate it with one spot. (I didn't want her associating it with food if I messed it up and hurt her too)

One question though, are you changing the location of each shot, or are you doing it roughly in the same spot? Doing it in the same spot over and over can cause scaring, I believe. Other folks, please correct me if I'm wrong. I do know that you're not supposed to use the same location all the time though.
 
Gill & Mac (UK) said:
This morning it took time and patience and a couple of pause, let the tent go and start again and got it done.
Click to expand...

Hi Gill,
I think this is exactly the right approach. Another thing you can do is to tent throughout the day to get Mac used to the feeling of renting without the needle.

I also give Mouse her shot at random locations in the house, so she doesn't associate it with one spot. (I didn't want her associating it with food if I messed it up and hurt her too)

One question though, are you changing the location of each shot, or are you doing it roughly in the same spot? Doing it in the same spot over and over can cause scaring, I believe. Other folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I think you need to be gentle with yourself. It looks like you've only been doing this a short while. It takes time and practice. The cat will survive in the meantime.
My first sugar kitty, Singha, was pretty skittish but he and I got better as we went along. It takes some time but I think he'll adapt. I think people have made good suggestions. I found I had to summon my own confidence and make my approach pretty straight forward and nonchalant, which worked particularly well when he was distracted with food. Eventually he forgot what I was doing. BG testing is more of a challenge but I talk to him and cuddle him and try to make it seem like the most natural thing in the world. Second kitty, Milo, is easy peasy but I had a year of training with his brother.
Hang in there. I'm convinced they recognize, at some point, that we are trying to help them. You'll get there.
 
Like Jeanne, I'm not the best example for encouragement. Panic could have cared less. Shoot (pun intended!), my civie Fenton doesn't react when I give his shots for arthritis - and that's 20+ units!
Sure, some cats get a little grumpy after a while. Some are in a bad mood. But I don't know any cats here that never got used to it.

Another option would be to switch needles. Do you know what gauge they are? Should say on the box. I hated using U-40s, the needles were too long and I kept making furshots, but I also think they don't come in 30 or 31 G. 31 G are very fine needles, and more comfortable. U-40s also only come in 1/2" needles. A shorter, thinner needle may be more comfortable for you two.

You can opt for U-100 needles that allow you to get the smaller sizes. You'll just use a conversion chart to draw up the correct dosage.

I also think part of it is just it being second nature. It's horrible the first time around, but once it's in the routine you'll be doing it with complete confidence. I think that will help.
 
Hi @Gill & Mac (UK)

I tried a U100 syringe yesterday for my PM shot. The needle was shorter and finer, felt better to administer the insulin. Perhaps worth a try?

What I find is that if I hesitate, Douglas knows and moves, even hisses at me now so I literally have about a 10 sec window before he says 'you've missed your shot' literally! Unfortunately I have missed a couple of insulin shots because I just get too anxious.

I know exactly how you feel and it will get easier. For me, its such a rollercoaster. Could be swimming through the tests and shots one week and the next week it feels like I'm starting from scratch. But one thing you need to remember, dont be too hard on yourself, take a step back and be amazed at what you have already achieved. :bighug:
 
I think you’re being much too hard on yourself, Gill. You’re putting in the effort and doing your best, and learning all the time - and that’s all any of us can do. You’ve come a long way and you should give yourself more credit. Remember, treating FD is a steep learning curve in more ways than one, and nobody said it was a walk in the park... but it does get easier over time.

Think back to when you last took on something new - learning a new language, learning to drive... there are lots of different elements to these things and sometimes you feel overwhelmed. But practice makes perfect and the more positive you are, the easier it becomes. Of course dealing with a squirmy kitty doesn’t help, but he may be picking up on your tension and responding accordingly. Try to relax, don’t rush things, take your time.

Also, don’t compare yourself with anyone else who seems to be managing “better”. They may or may not be! Perhaps some people are just less anxious, or get the knack a bit quicker, but you may be doing other things more efficiently. A friend of mine used to like the expression “comparisons are odious” - not sure where she got it from but it makes sense.

So I’d say - remember what you have achieved, build on that in your own time, and know that it will get better. It really will!
 
Critter Mom said:
Are you using U40 syringes, Gill?

Leaving that there else I'll forget to ask (major problems with working memory :( ).



That sounds to me like a kitty whose mama is doing an awful lot of things right! :):)

Wishing you a good night's sleep, Gill. Things will look better in the morning.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mogs - I did sleep but kept dreaming I was injecting Mac so good job I don't sleepwalk \ sleepjab. I'm using U40 syringes at the moment as didn't want to add in the extra step of the conversion to be able to use the U100 but I think I am convinced now to do the leap to the U100. But I asked our vet surgery what ones they have and theirs all have 12.5mm needles still.

I have had a look online (cos I'm in the UK I can't get some of the ones I have seen that others have mentioned on the board) but I have seen these ones (link below) - it seems like the ones that are just called BD microfine + (not saying demi) are still 12.7mm but these demi ones seem to be 8mm - the also seem to be 30G which I believe is finer than the 29G I am on now ? The blurb seems to say it does have 0.5 unit markings which is essential. Are these the right ones to get please ?

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-...-0-3ml-u100-insulin-syringes-box-of-100-p-296

I don't know how thick a cat's skin is but I'm assuming 8mm is long enough. Then I use the conversion chart so for 1 iu of my prozinc it will be 2.5 units on the syringe ?

thanks for the help & hugs Mogs & sorry for the extra questions. I've tagged in @Elizabeth and Bertie as I know she is use U100 and UK based too. If anyone else on this thread can help too please jump in !

PS I did manage to get this morning's shot done ok but it took start & stop several attempts at the tent before the little wotsit would stay still enough post tent for me to make the shot ! He still flinches a bit when the needle goes in so hopefully the smaller needle will help. :)

Gill
 
Polgeria said:
Hi Gill,
I think this is exactly the right approach. Another thing you can do is to tent throughout the day to get Mac used to the feeling of renting without the needle.

I also give Mouse her shot at random locations in the house, so she doesn't associate it with one spot. (I didn't want her associating it with food if I messed it up and hurt her too)

One question though, are you changing the location of each shot, or are you doing it roughly in the same spot? Doing it in the same spot over and over can cause scaring, I believe. Other folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Hi Allison (hope that's right)

Thanks for your reply. I tend to give the shot in the scruff at his shoulder level but do alternate from right to left shoulder and try to move around each area a bit as well.

PS love your cat's name !
Gill
 
Sam&Milo&Singha said:
I think you need to be gentle with yourself. It looks like you've only been doing this a short while. It takes time and practice. The cat will survive in the meantime.
My first sugar kitty, Singha, was pretty skittish but he and I got better as we went along. It takes some time but I think he'll adapt. I think people have made good suggestions. I found I had to summon my own confidence and make my approach pretty straight forward and nonchalant, which worked particularly well when he was distracted with food. Eventually he forgot what I was doing. BG testing is more of a challenge but I talk to him and cuddle him and try to make it seem like the most natural thing in the world. Second kitty, Milo, is easy peasy but I had a year of training with his brother.
Hang in there. I'm convinced they recognize, at some point, that we are trying to help them. You'll get there.
Click to expand...

Hi Sam (I hope that is you not a 3rd cat).
Thanks very much for the reassurance. I do tend to expect to be perfect fast so I'll try to give myself a break. I think I just have this dread that I will miss a couple of shots and he will just keel over and I will have killed my cat. Probably I'm over reacting somewhat (I hope !) but you know how evil these early hours of the morning thoughts can get. :(
It does help to know that others have had issues and won through (like Singha) as it gives me hope !

Gill
 
Panic said:
Like Jeanne, I'm not the best example for encouragement. Panic could have cared less. Shoot (pun intended!), my civie Fenton doesn't react when I give his shots for arthritis - and that's 20+ units!
Sure, some cats get a little grumpy after a while. Some are in a bad mood. But I don't know any cats here that never got used to it.

Another option would be to switch needles. Do you know what gauge they are? Should say on the box. I hated using U-40s, the needles were too long and I kept making furshots, but I also think they don't come in 30 or 31 G. 31 G are very fine needles, and more comfortable. U-40s also only come in 1/2" needles. A shorter, thinner needle may be more comfortable for you two.

You can opt for U-100 needles that allow you to get the smaller sizes. You'll just use a conversion chart to draw up the correct dosage.

I also think part of it is just it being second nature. It's horrible the first time around, but once it's in the routine you'll be doing it with complete confidence. I think that will help.
Click to expand...

Hi Elizabeth

I think you are right about the needles being the way to go- I have asked Mogs some questions about the ones I have seen in my reply to her - sorry I had not read this first or I would have tagged you too for your views but it is in this thread - I'm working down the replies in order after work as ran out of time on my lunchbreak. I think those ones look ok.

Thanks for your comment of "But I don't know any cats here that never got used to it" that is really good to know that we will get there

Gill
 
Douglas_my ginger cat said:
Hi @Gill & Mac (UK)

I tried a U100 syringe yesterday for my PM shot. The needle was shorter and finer, felt better to administer the insulin. Perhaps worth a try?

What I find is that if I hesitate, Douglas knows and moves, even hisses at me now so I literally have about a 10 sec window before he says 'you've missed your shot' literally! Unfortunately I have missed a couple of insulin shots because I just get too anxious.

I know exactly how you feel and it will get easier. For me, its such a rollercoaster. Could be swimming through the tests and shots one week and the next week it feels like I'm starting from scratch. But one thing you need to remember, dont be too hard on yourself, take a step back and be amazed at what you have already achieved. :bighug:
Click to expand...

Hi Douglas' mum (don't know your name sorry)

Thanks for the kind words & reassurance - it really helps.

I forgot that you were UK based too (I need to keep a list :)) as I would have copied you in to my reply to Mogs (bombarding her with questions again - poor soul!) - can I ask exactly what brand etc of U100 syringes you are trying. The ones I have seen are in the link below

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-...-0-3ml-u100-insulin-syringes-box-of-100-p-296

Rollercoaster sums it up exactly - it goes nice and smoothly for a while & then plummets down. You got on it about 3 weeks ahead of us so we will be following in your trail ! Hope you & Douglas keep on the up !

Gill
 
Diana&Tom said:
I think you’re being much too hard on yourself, Gill. You’re putting in the effort and doing your best, and learning all the time - and that’s all any of us can do. You’ve come a long way and you should give yourself more credit. Remember, treating FD is a steep learning curve in more ways than one, and nobody said it was a walk in the park... but it does get easier over time.

Think back to when you last took on something new - learning a new language, learning to drive... there are lots of different elements to these things and sometimes you feel overwhelmed. But practice makes perfect and the more positive you are, the easier it becomes. Of course dealing with a squirmy kitty doesn’t help, but he may be picking up on your tension and responding accordingly. Try to relax, don’t rush things, take your time.

Also, don’t compare yourself with anyone else who seems to be managing “better”. They may or may not be! Perhaps some people are just less anxious, or get the knack a bit quicker, but you may be doing other things more efficiently. A friend of mine used to like the expression “comparisons are odious” - not sure where she got it from but it makes sense.

So I’d say - remember what you have achieved, build on that in your own time, and know that it will get better. It really will!
Click to expand...

Hi Diana
That is so true - comparing it to learning to drive puts it all into perspective - you couldn't be more right, I had good lessons when I thought I was queen of the road and the odd awful ones when I thought I'd be better off sticking to a bicycle. But I got there and I never killed anyone (kitty, squirrel or bigger) in the process. I think I will put a little car sticker on my bottle box (insulin bottle not booze) to remind me to hold that thought.

Gill
 
Gill & Mac (UK) said:
Hi Douglas' mum (don't know your name sorry)

Thanks for the kind words & reassurance - it really helps.

I forgot that you were UK based too (I need to keep a list :)) as I would have copied you in to my reply to Mogs (bombarding her with questions again - poor soul!) - can I ask exactly what brand etc of U100 syringes you are trying. The ones I have seen are in the link below

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-...-0-3ml-u100-insulin-syringes-box-of-100-p-296

Rollercoaster sums it up exactly - it goes nice and smoothly for a while & then plummets down. You got on it about 3 weeks ahead of us so we will be following in your trail ! Hope you & Douglas keep on the up !

Gill
Click to expand...
Hi Gill, my name is Anna :D nice to meet you!

@Elizabeth and Bertie kindly pointed me in the direction of U100 syringes here http://www.alldaypharmacy.co.uk/pro...3ml-Syringe-0.3mm-(30G)-x-8mm-Box-of-100.html, which look exactly the same as the ones you mentioned.

It does look like we are very close with diagnosis and journey! And I know we will both get to where we need to be with our sugar cats! Had you told me 6 months ago that I would be injecting my kitty, I would have told you to do one!!! But look where I am, who knew!!?o_O
 
Douglas_my ginger cat said:
Hi Gill, my name is Anna :D nice to meet you!

@Elizabeth and Bertie kindly pointed me in the direction of U100 syringes here http://www.alldaypharmacy.co.uk/products/BD-Micro%2dFine-Demi-0.3ml-Syringe-0.3mm-(30G)-x-8mm-Box-of-100.html, which look exactly the same as the ones you mentioned.

It does look like we are very close with diagnosis and journey! And I know we will both get to where we need to be with our sugar cats! Had you told me 6 months ago that I would be injecting my kitty, I would have told you to do one!!! But look where I am, who knew!!?o_O
Click to expand...

Thanks Anna - yes - snap on the syringes! I was sure Elizabeth had sent me a link at the start as a new member but couldn't find it - no wonder they looked familiar !

I know what you mean I would never have believed it a month ago either ! All the best to Douglas & Mac- sugar baby "bruvvers from different mothers" !

Gillx:cat::cat:
 
Gill & Mac (UK) said:
Hi Allison (hope that's right)

Thanks for your reply. I tend to give the shot in the scruff at his shoulder level but do alternate from right to left shoulder and try to move around each area a bit as well.

PS love your cat's name !
Gill
Click to expand...

Hehehehe...Mouse is just her short name :p her full name is Mousey Moose MooMoo. And she answers to all 3 names. (We usually call her Moo or Mouse around the house)

You can alternate the shot around the full body as long as you can comfortably tent it away from the underlying muscle. I've heard that location can affect the quality of the insulin though, so most people stick with the scruff and the shoulders/ hind legs. Those are the easiest, and I also follow those spots.

I tend to give the skin a good shake, to make sure I've pulled it away from the underlying tissue, but I'm blessed with a super calm kitty who lets me do whatever I need to in order to make her feel better.

And ya totally got my name right :) You'll get the hang of it. No one is perfect, and eventually your Mac will get used to it. They know when we're trying to help them, sometimes it just takes them a bit.
 
Polgeria said:
Hehehehe...Mouse is just her short name :p her full name is Mousey Moose MooMoo. And she answers to all 3 names. (We usually call her Moo or Mouse around the house)

You can alternate the shot around the full body as long as you can comfortably tent it away from the underlying muscle. I've heard that location can affect the quality of the insulin though, so most people stick with the scruff and the shoulders/ hind legs. Those are the easiest, and I also follow those spots.

I tend to give the skin a good shake, to make sure I've pulled it away from the underlying tissue, but I'm blessed with a super calm kitty who lets me do whatever I need to in order to make her feel better.

And ya totally got my name right :) You'll get the hang of it. No one is perfect, and eventually your Mac will get used to it. They know when we're trying to help them, sometimes it just takes them a bit.[/QUOTE

Hi Allison
Yes I tend to find the shoulders best for Mac - the once I tried by his hip he really flinched !
Bet our cats get their street cred dented a little by our loving nicknames - Mac gets called MaccyMoo - sometimes Tiggytige (when he's being a bit bouncy like Tigger) and has known to be referred to with his sister as Big Mac & French fries.
Oh how they must love me !! I dread to think what their petnames for us humans are - probably "cat servant", "kitty slave"or "she who feeds me too slowly when I want it now" :)
Gill
Click to expand...
 
Hi Gill,

Hope you're feeling a bit brighter now. :bighug:

Gill & Mac (UK) said:
I have had a look online (cos I'm in the UK I can't get some of the ones I have seen that others have mentioned on the board) but I have seen these ones (link below) - it seems like the ones that are just called BD microfine + (not saying demi) are still 12.7mm but these demi ones seem to be 8mm - the also seem to be 30G which I believe is finer than the 29G I am on now ? The blurb seems to say it does have 0.5 unit markings which is essential. Are these the right ones to get please ?
Click to expand...

The higher the gauge, the finer the needle.

The needles in your VioVet link are the ones I used. Both Saoirse and myself got on better with them. I really didn't like using the 29-gauge, 12.5mm needles. The shorter, finer ones are much easier to use.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Gill,

Hope you're feeling a bit brighter now. :bighug:

Mogs
.
Click to expand...

Hi Mog
I am now thanks - managed to get 3 shots on the trot to go well took a lot of patience and having to let the scruff go and start again he tried to escape but it was worth it. Thanks for all the support. Have ordered a box of those shorter needles so that should help too in preventing fur shots and make it more comfy for him.
Gill:cat:
 
Glad you’re feeling a bit better, Gill! I think you almost have to expect good and bad days, so maybe have a couple of little treats planned to cheer yourself up if you have a bad day or reward yourself if it’s a good day... we all need that sort of thing whatever we’re going through. I used to advocate a good stock of chocolate biscuits but more recently have moved on to Bailey’s... divine in coffee ;)
 
Diana&Tom said:
Glad you’re feeling a bit better, Gill! I think you almost have to expect good and bad days, so maybe have a couple of little treats planned to cheer yourself up if you have a bad day or reward yourself if it’s a good day... we all need that sort of thing whatever we’re going through. I used to advocate a good stock of chocolate biscuits but more recently have moved on to Bailey’s... divine in coffee ;)
Click to expand...

Or without coffee ! hmm good idea Diana thanks for the kind words.
 
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