Got 2nd opinion

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Amaris Welch

Amaris Welch

Member Since 2020
Well got Rico a second opinion. The new vet took his sugar and it was 185. Big difference from a reading of 500 2weeks ago. We decided to stay in Vetsulin until it's out then go on Human Relion insulin. Vet says this with diet has caused a lot of cats to go into remission. He prescribed Rico the Purina dm food. I am hoping this will help Rico. Oh and Rico gained 4 lbs. So that's also good. I liked this vet and so did rico.
 
Glad to hear you have a vet you think you can work with although I don't agree with his food suggestion.

There's absolutely nothing in D/M that treats diabetes. The kibble is too high in carbs too. The canned pate is low enough but most cats get tired of it quickly and for over $2 a can, you can get MUCH higher quality foods. If you look at the ingredients, you'll see they're not very good.

It's great that the numbers are coming down though! That's promising!

I would not use the Relion insulin. It's the WalMart version of Novolin and it's even harsher than Vetsulin is. It usually hits very hard and fast and then wears off long before the next shot is due. It works fine in dogs, but it's really not a good choice for cats.
 
Amaris Welch said:
Well got Rico a second opinion. The new vet took his sugar and it was 185. Big difference from a reading of 500 2weeks ago. We decided to stay in Vetsulin until it's out then go on Human Relion insulin. Vet says this with diet has caused a lot of cats to go into remission. He prescribed Rico the Purina dm food. I am hoping this will help Rico. Oh and Rico gained 4 lbs. So that's also good. I liked this vet and so did rico.
Click to expand...

My cat when dx in May of this year, was prescribed DM Purina wet can food. I will tell you the truth- she loves it too much! The only problem I had, her BG spikes as soon as she eats the DM. And upon reading, most of the ingredients are Not good- Soy, Carageenan (known to be carnicogen)Vit K- synthetic... and a lot of meat by products.. and liver is the first ingredients. Her stool was really really smelly and I need to buy a special litter because the whole house smells too. I hate to take it away from her, because she loves it, but I l know- this food was not good for her. The first day, I took it away from her completely- she did not want to eat at all. She snubbed the foods I served her, and just stood by the side where all her purina Dm was kept. “She wished she could open the cans-hahaha.. I then told myself, I cannot force her- it needs patience and need gradual - very very slow transition. Meaning, mixing the new food with it little by little. Like a pea size everyday, until she gets use to it
I started to cook home made and I am still learning until now. You may go to www.catinfo.org if you want to prepare meals for your fur baby. But you can stick with DM if you have no time, and gradually switch her to something better.
It took me 3 months for her to get to eat the homemade foods. It needs a lot of patience, love, and effort to do it- not hard, but with much love and dedication- you can definitely do it.
Her BG is now always at a better number- I did not get a chance to update her ss, but I am now giving her less than .50u, and her numbers are now in a normal range of a cat. She was @108 when I gave her dose this morning.
Good luck and God bless- we all need lots of prayers. That’s one secret I do, I always ask for wisdom, because that is the only way for us to know what is the right thing to do- even for our own life, family, loved ones and friends.
Also- there are lots of members here who are very supportive and I really appreciate their love, support, effort and time to give their knowledge, share their experiences and mostly their love to our fur babies.
Take care.
 
I would strongly urge you to not use either Vetsulin or the Relion/Novolin insulins. Even when Gabby was diagnosed in 2009, Novolin was a bad choice. My vet, who was a feline specialist, comment that it was fine for dogs but it was a terrible insulin for cats. The guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn that Judy linked, recommend either Lantus or Prozinc for cats. Cats have a fast metabolism which cause Vetsulin and Novolin to drop numbers sharply and they do not have enough duration to last the 12-hour cycle. As a result, numbers drop fast and they skyrocket by the next shot time. I'd discuss the guidelines with the vet and then indicate you'd prefer to have a prescription for either Lantus or Prozinc.
 
Just a quick note on where to get supplies. If you're in the States, Lantus costs more than some other insulins. However, for years many members here have been purchasing Lantus much more cheaply from Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada. Give a shout if you need more information.


Mogs
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MamaLovesMomo said:
My cat when dx in May of this year, was prescribed DM Purina wet can food. I will tell you the truth- she loves it too much! The only problem I had, her BG spikes as soon as she eats the DM. And upon reading, most of the ingredients are Not good- Soy, Carageenan (known to be carnicogen)Vit K- synthetic... and a lot of meat by products.. and liver is the first ingredients. Her stool was really really smelly and I need to buy a special litter because the whole house smells too. I hate to take it away from her, because she loves it, but I l know- this food was not good for her. The first day, I took it away from her completely- she did not want to eat at all. She snubbed the foods I served her, and just stood by the side where all her purina Dm was kept. “She wished she could open the cans-hahaha.. I then told myself, I cannot force her- it needs patience and need gradual - very very slow transition. Meaning, mixing the new food with it little by little. Like a pea size everyday, until she gets use to it
I started to cook home made and I am still learning until now. You may go to www.catinfo.org if you want to prepare meals for your fur baby. But you can stick with DM if you have no time, and gradually switch her to something better.
It took me 3 months for her to get to eat the homemade foods. It needs a lot of patience, love, and effort to do it- not hard, but with much love and dedication- you can definitely do it.
Her BG is now always at a better number- I did not get a chance to update her ss, but I am now giving her less than .50u, and her numbers are now in a normal range of a cat. She was @108 when I gave her dose this morning.
Good luck and God bless- we all need lots of prayers. That’s one secret I do, I always ask for wisdom, because that is the only way for us to know what is the right thing to do- even for our own life, family, loved ones and friends.
Also- there are lots of members here who are very supportive and I really appreciate their love, support, effort and time to give their knowledge, share their experiences and mostly their love to our fur babies.
Take care.
Click to expand...
I Agree totally about DM ingredients there are so many better choices of human grade cat foods out there that are low in Carbohydrates . I can’t believe Vets STILL recommend DM knowing the ingredients ahhhhhh ....... Can I ask what home made food you are doing ?
Share that recipe lol
 
Dusty & Roe said:
I Agree totally about DM ingredients there are so many better choices of human grade cat foods out there that are low in Carbohydrates . I can’t believe Vets STILL recommend DM knowing the ingredients ahhhhhh ....... Can I ask what home made food you are doing ?
Share that recipe lol
Click to expand...

When I suggested a wet food that Maddie likes (Blink) and expressed concerns about the ingredients in Purina DM, I got a long email lecture from my vet about how I shouldn't be worried that it contains rendered beef fat, etc. :(

I'm willing to admit that the food I originally chose is low in calories for an underweight diabetic cat and could use more offal in the recipe instead of just chicken breast, so I'm in the process of finding a happy medium. Maddie won't eat the moulded chunks in many wet foods made from "animal by-products", and just licks off the gravy/jelly - she wants meat (or fish) that has the texture of the real thing. I'm waiting now on a parcel from ZooPlus and hoping I can find something to Madam's high-class taste!
 
@Maddie Mouse -

Hi Anne,

Granatapet is very high quality (but rather rich), as are Grau, Catz Finefoods and Miamor. IIRC Animonda foods are pretty good too. Bozita are also worth a look. The Porta 21 chicken shred pouches (complementary) are also good. (Saoirse had chronic pancreatitis and Lúnasa is sensitive to some ingredients so I trialled a huge slew of foods from zooplus. Didn't help my little ones very much but the local rescue shelter did very well out of us. :rolleyes: )

Obviously you need to check the carb content on the UK food list as some varieties in the above ranges may be too high.

If you're looking at any Lily's Kitchen foods, make sure they don't contain carrageenan (it's a pro-inflammatory agent).

Many of the European brands are somewhat 'purer' than many of the typical UK market offerings because they don't muck around as much with the food. They don't tend to include as many of the ingredients which are intended to sound appetising to humans but which cats don't need.


Mogs
.
 
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Critter Mom said:
@Maddie Mouse -

Hi Anne,

Granatapet is very high quality (but rather rich), as are Grau, Catz Finefoods and Miamor. IIRC Animonda foods are pretty good too. Bozita are also worth a look. The Porta 21 chicken shred pouches (complementary) are also good. (Saoirse had chronic pancreatitis and Lúnasa is sensitive to some ingredients so I trialled a huge slew of foods from zooplus. Didn't help my little ones very much but the local rescue shelter did very well out us. :rolleyes: )

Obviously you need to check the carb content on the UK food list as some varieties in the above ranges may be too high.

If you're looking at any Lily's Kitchen foods, make sure they don't contain carrageenan (it's a pro-inflammatory agent).

Many of the European brands are somewhat 'purer' than many of the typical UK market offerings because they don't muck around as much with the food. They don't tend to include as many of the ingredients which are intended to sound appetising to humans but which cats don't need.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

Thanks for those suggestions! Our local Blue Cross is going to be getting a few boxes of Purina DM pouches along with the sack of non-diabetic kibble, because even our other cat - who will hoover up almost any wet food - turns her nose up at them.

I combed the UK spreadsheet looking for low-carb foods with no added nasties, and have some Porta 21 Tuna & Shrimp (only flavour ZooPlus had in stock, I think?) arriving today, along with Feringa, Mac's and Wild Freedom. Yesterday Maddie scoffed a pouch each of Hi-Life Ocean Fish and Blink Chicken & Duck, neither of which is terribly high in calories - but food not eaten doesn't count as calories either! And since I can buy these at Tesco, they will be good if I run out and am waiting on a delivery.

I'm also considering a visit to Scampers, a big pet store 15 miles away, as they specialise in high-quality pet foods and stock Purrform frozen raw foods. Having put together my own spreadsheet to compare both nutrition and cost of different wet foods I'm trying out, it's clear that Maddie's tastes are on the expensive side :rolleyes:

She's now getting close to the weight recommended by the vet (4kg), though I think she needs to be a bit heavier than that because her hind quarters are still very skinny. Burmese are chunky little cats!
 
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Maddie Mouse said:
When I suggested a wet food that Maddie likes (Blink) and expressed concerns about the ingredients in Purina DM, I got a long email lecture from my vet about how I shouldn't be worried that it contains rendered beef fat, etc. :(

I'm willing to admit that the food I originally chose is low in calories for an underweight diabetic cat and could use more offal in the recipe instead of just chicken breast, so I'm in the process of finding a happy medium. Maddie won't eat the moulded chunks in many wet foods made from "animal by-products", and just licks off the gravy/jelly - she wants meat (or fish) that has the texture of the real thing. I'm waiting now on a parcel from ZooPlus and hoping I can find something to Madam's high-class taste!
Click to expand...
I became really concerned about the foods I was feeding especially when Dusty became diabetic so I began researching . From what I found out Animal by-products are any part of the animal discarded or deemed inedible for human consumption, basically it’s all the throw aways parts ground up beaks , feet , skin etc then it’s all ground up baked till there is no nutrients left put in a pretty package and we wonder why out companions are sick .
I would not feed this to my cat . I was thinking the other day I have had cats all my life and Never heard of more diseases , cancer, pancreatitis, DKA , IBS cases in my life . Is it just me thinking this ?
 
@Dusty & Roe -

I remember reading something a while back that there's an increase in numbers of diabetic cats that closely parallels the explosion of type 2 diabetes in the human population.

Gotta love predatory capitalism...


Mogs
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Dusty & Roe said:
I became really concerned about the foods I was feeding especially when Dusty became diabetic so I began researching . From what I found out Animal by-products are any part of the animal discarded or deemed inedible for human consumption, basically it’s all the throw aways parts ground up beaks , feet , skin etc then it’s all ground up baked till there is no nutrients left put in a pretty package and we wonder why out companions are sick .
Click to expand...

Exactly. I mean, I know that when a wild/feral cat eats a bird or mouse whole, there's going to be beaks and claws and teeth and feathers and fur in the mix, but it's not the bulk of the prey - so when I see "animal by-products" as the first ingredient in a food, I'm not impressed. I'm much happier with ingredient lists that are up-front about containing liver, heart, lungs, neck, tripe, etc - all perfectly nutritious internal organs rather than "pink slime".

Tripe was considered a delicacy in my grandma's day, but even when I ate meat, I never had the nerve to try it! I have had haggis, though, which is traditionally made with sheep's lung - thankfully there's a vegetarian version that tastes almost exactly like the real thing.
 
Dusty & Roe said:
I Agree totally about DM ingredients there are so many better choices of human grade cat foods out there that are low in Carbohydrates . I can’t believe Vets STILL recommend DM knowing the ingredients ahhhhhh ....... Can I ask what home made food you are doing ?
Share that recipe lol
Click to expand...
Dusty & Roe said:
I Agree totally about DM ingredients there are so many better choices of human grade cat foods out there that are low in Carbohydrates . I can’t believe Vets STILL recommend DM knowing the ingredients ahhhhhh ....... Can I ask what home made food you are doing ?
Share that recipe lol
Click to expand...
@Dusty & Roe,

Hello. Sure of course. I always wanted to share to others if it could help them, why not.. we are here to help each other and make our fur baby be healthy again.. Momo’s number been good lately, so I got lazy to update her SS.
I paid a vet nutritionist, because since her numbers are now mostly in a good normal range- I am not so much concern with her diabetes. My concern now is her kidney. I do not want her to progress to CKD, and I decided to pay a nutritionist to get a meal diet for her so that her meal will be balanced.
- 3.5 oz of chicken (combination of half baked thigh and ground thigh chicken- NO BONES, just meat). I will eventually get other type of meat. I am finishing up her batch of chicken.
- I recently used Ez mix fur With liver,( you need to follow the direction as cooked meat has a different directions compared to raw meats especially it has bones that you need to weigh before and after cooking to get the exact weight. It took a lot of my time, but it pays because she loves it so much, but since she loves it so much that I worry now because 3.5oz may not be enough every day.
- 1-1.5 oz oz of pumpkin mixed with her daily meal (Pumpkin according to research shows that it helps to regulate sugar- google it)- but not too much because it is high in potassium
-1 oz of egg white (no yolk)- not too much since it is high in sodium - she said
- since her meal is sometimes not enough, nutritionist told me I can also add brocoli, or kale or cauliflower. I will try this weekend.
I continue to give her omega 3 - brand is (Nordick)she told me not to stop it- as it is really good for kidneys.
—- hope this will be beneficial to all of our cats.
Please let me know if I can still be of help.

take care. God bless.
 
MamaLovesMomo said:
@Dusty & Roe,

Hello. Sure of course. I always wanted to share to others if it could help them, why not.. we are here to help each other and make our fur baby be healthy again.. Momo’s number been good lately, so I got lazy to update her SS.
I paid a vet nutritionist, because since her numbers are now mostly in a good normal range- I am not so much concern with her diabetes. My concern now is her kidney. I do not want her to progress to CKD, and I decided to pay a nutritionist to get a meal diet for her so that her meal will be balanced.
- 3.5 oz of chicken (combination of half baked thigh and ground thigh chicken- NO BONES, just meat). I will eventually get other type of meat. I am finishing up her batch of chicken.
- I recently used Ez mix fur With liver,( you need to follow the direction as cooked meat has a different directions compared to raw meats especially it has bones that you need to weigh before and after cooking to get the exact weight. It took a lot of my time, but it pays because she loves it so much, but since she loves it so much that I worry now because 3.5oz may not be enough every day.
- 1-1.5 oz oz of pumpkin mixed with her daily meal (Pumpkin according to research shows that it helps to regulate sugar- google it)- but not too much because it is high in potassium
-1 oz of egg white (no yolk)- not too much since it is high in sodium - she said
- since her meal is sometimes not enough, nutritionist told me I can also add brocoli, or kale or cauliflower. I will try this weekend.
I continue to give her omega 3 - brand is (Nordick)she told me not to stop it- as it is really good for kidneys.
—- hope this will be beneficial to all of our cats.
Please let me know if I can still be of help.

take care. God bless.
Click to expand...
Are you cooking slightly ?
 
Maddie Mouse said:
Exactly. I mean, I know that when a wild/feral cat eats a bird or mouse whole, there's going to be beaks and claws and teeth and feathers and fur in the mix, but it's not the bulk of the prey - so when I see "animal by-products" as the first ingredient in a food, I'm not impressed. I'm much happier with ingredient lists that are up-front about containing liver, heart, lungs, neck, tripe, etc - all perfectly nutritious internal organs rather than "pink slime".

Tripe was considered a delicacy in my grandma's day, but even when I ate meat, I never had the nerve to try it! I have had haggis, though, which is traditionally made with sheep's lung - thankfully there's a vegetarian version that tastes almost exactly like the real thing.
Click to expand...
Lol I have heard of haggis but never had the nerve to try it either lol.....
Another thing I found in my research which shocked me was how many foods were Recalled including the Vet recommendation Hills yet Fancy Feast Weruva Tiki Cat were never recalled go figure .
 
MamaLovesMomo said:
@Dusty & Roe,

Hello. Sure of course. I always wanted to share to others if it could help them, why not.. we are here to help each other and make our fur baby be healthy again.. Momo’s number been good lately, so I got lazy to update her SS.
I paid a vet nutritionist, because since her numbers are now mostly in a good normal range- I am not so much concern with her diabetes. My concern now is her kidney. I do not want her to progress to CKD, and I decided to pay a nutritionist to get a meal diet for her so that her meal will be balanced.
- 3.5 oz of chicken (combination of half baked thigh and ground thigh chicken- NO BONES, just meat). I will eventually get other type of meat. I am finishing up her batch of chicken.
- I recently used Ez mix fur With liver,( you need to follow the direction as cooked meat has a different directions compared to raw meats especially it has bones that you need to weigh before and after cooking to get the exact weight. It took a lot of my time, but it pays because she loves it so much, but since she loves it so much that I worry now because 3.5oz may not be enough every day.
- 1-1.5 oz oz of pumpkin mixed with her daily meal (Pumpkin according to research shows that it helps to regulate sugar- google it)- but not too much because it is high in potassium
-1 oz of egg white (no yolk)- not too much since it is high in sodium - she said
- since her meal is sometimes not enough, nutritionist told me I can also add brocoli, or kale or cauliflower. I will try this weekend.
I continue to give her omega 3 - brand is (Nordick)she told me not to stop it- as it is really good for kidneys.
—- hope this will be beneficial to all of our cats.
Please let me know if I can still be of help.

take care. God bless.
Click to expand...
Oh and Thank you so much
 
Dusty & Roe said:
Are you cooking slightly ?
Click to expand...
@Dusty & Roe,

The half baked (actually i grill now). There is a cheap indoor (smokeless grill), I bought -- I grill the thigh with legs (not fully cooked), just outside . Per Lisa Pierson, only outside has bacteria, so inside is safe. So - mostly the inside are still raw (very very lightly cooked). You can insert fork while you are grilling it. Do no remove the skin, let the skin be there while grilling. Then I removed the skin, when I started to cut them into chunk or pieces. They said - better bigger pieces, so they use their teeth and it serves like brushing their teeth with it. I do NOT feed the skin to her.

The ground I cooked like 90% because it says I mixed the top portion where bacteria is. I let it cooked with its own broth - sometimes I put half cups of water, let it boil (very very little fire), then cook them.

I have been reading the Phosphorus gets mostly eliminated by boiling, and it stays in the broth - so I always throw away the broth. I know it also loses some of the vitamins - so I add, taurine, B12, Vit E, and I give her Omega 3.

The nutritionist told me to give her B complex.

I forgot to mention - I stopped mixing her chicken now with Ez mix, I found out that her Bg started to rise after using the EZ mix. I researched and 2 of the digestive enzymes made her Bg to rise. Bromelain _ made from pineapple, (Momo is very sensitive in having pineapple), and I forgot if Amylase..

So- I put her vitamins back in her foods. I also bought Nom-nom Probiotic.

Thanks.. Hope it helps.
 
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