Lab result high BUN

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MamaLovesMomo

MamaLovesMomo

Member Since 2020
Hello everyone @jt and trouble (GA), @Nan & Amber (GA), @tiffmaxee,
@Wendy&Neko,

My MM got a blood test yesterday and the house on call vet (not her regular vet) performed it. I chose her so that Momo does not need to leave the house( she gets so stressed whenever she leaves the house- I guessed most of the cats are like this)
The blood work came with very high BUN. I am so worried- is this kidney failure?
The vet wants to test her urine because her Creatinine is normal. And she is asking
Me maybe dehydrated? But how can she be dehydrated- her home made chicken (boiled with its own broth), and half baked chicken- I always put tons of water on it. She licked them good, then I put more water.. I also tested her skin, pull it and comes back right away.
Her stool was very very dry- that’s why when I gave her a sample, that was the very first thing she ask(if MM is drinking enough water)...
And she was constipated too, which I am thinking the Raw freeze Stella & Chewy. But I stopped this since Thursday to see what was going on. I posted that question and some told me put pumpkin, which I did. Then she did not pooh again on Tues-friday. I put physillium husk on Friday night and she did pooh on Saturday morning (the sample I gave to vet). She will be testing her urine on Monday as today is Sunday and lab is closed.
Any idea what was going on? I am so afraid it is kidney failure... ughh.... I pray not..
I attached the lab work and vet wanted to see her foods, so I did.
thank you all. I appreciate any opinions? Or ideas based on your experiences?

thank you so much to all of you.
Momo & Len
 

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This is a clearer copy.
Thanks
 

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Hmmm, I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie for help interpreting the labs. Some dehydration is a good guess as to what it could be-- the hard dry poops are also pointing in that direction, although the skin tent test sort of goes against that.

Marje is excellent at interpreting labs, she may see some other clues in there and have some other hypotheses, but it might be better to wait for the urine tests to come back before really going down a particular road. I know it's hard to wait :nailbiting:, but more information is better in these cases.

The other thing is, even if it does turn out to be kidney disease, in the early stages it can be managed very well with just a few more things than you are doing now (sub-cutaneous fluids, etc.), so there is hope there.
 
Hi Len,

Maybe other people have much better eyesight than me (not hard these days :rolleyes: ) but it's really hard to read the images you've posted, even the later ones. They can be zoomed in on with a tablet, but not everyone has one.

If you look on Momo's spreadsheet there's a tab called 'Labs'. If you could fill in Momo's results there it would enable any member to read them better.

WRT to the elevated BUN, by way of general information one thing that can have an influence on this marker is feeding a high protein diet. (Note: I'm just posting this as a general piece of anecdotal information, not an interpretation of Momo's results.)

I'd ask your vet about running an SDMA test. It can pick up kidney issues earlier, when functionality has not become impaired to the degree where creatinine levels become elevated.

The website felineconstipation.org is a good resource for such issues. Also, catinfo.org has a lot of information on cat nutrition and overall health.

Did you change to the raw diet very recently? I have read reports that feeding a raw diet may result in smaller, drier stools. I'd suggest siting the litter box somewhere you can watch Momo when he's having a poop to see whether he's straining to pass the stool or whether he's showing any form of discomfort, and share your observations with your vet.


Mogs
.
 
@Critter Mom - she has the labs on the spreadsheet (unless she added them after you mentioned it!)

The elevated creatinine and BUN could be kidney issues. Could you look over your printouts and see if there's an SDMA. It the labs were sent out to IDEXX, they run this test pretty routinely. It's a test that's predictive of kidney issues.

I do think it would be good if you could get more liquid into your kitty. When you mention that you are cooking chicken, are you using this in addition to a canned food (DM?) and if not, are you adding a premix to the cooked chicken so Momo is getting all of the necessary nutrients? Plain cooked chicken is not a nutritionally complete diet. I always add water to my cat's food.
 
The creatinine is normal. I would recheck the labs when sufficiently hydrated. The BUN is elevated however. My vet never judges anything by one set of labs. To evaluate kidneys you need a urinalysis to check the USG so when a recheck is done I would get that as well. I’d wait a minimum of a month.
 
@tiffmaxee - you are correct. I'm so glad that my new contact lenses will be arriving soon!

Elise's suggestion is good. We were watching Gizmo's labs since he had some suspicious kidney values. They are all within normal range these days and have been for some time.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Len,

Maybe other people have much better eyesight than me (not hard these days :rolleyes: ) but it's really hard to read the images you've posted, even the later ones. They can be zoomed in on with a tablet, but not everyone has one.

If you look on Momo's spreadsheet there's a tab called 'Labs'. If you could fill in Momo's results there it would enable any member to read them better.

WRT to the elevated BUN, by way of general information one thing that can have an influence on this marker is feeding a high protein diet. (Note: I'm just posting this as a general piece of anecdotal information, not an interpretation of Momo's results.)

I'd ask your vet about running an SDMA test. It can pick up kidney issues earlier, when functionality has not become impaired to the degree where creatinine levels become elevated.

The website felineconstipation.org is a good resource for such issues. Also, catinfo.org has a lot of information on cat nutrition and overall health.

Did you change to the raw diet very recently? I have read reports that feeding a raw diet may result in smaller, drier stools. I'd suggest siting the litter box somewhere you can watch Momo when he's having a poop to see whether he's straining to pass the stool or whether he's showing any form of discomfort, and share your observations with your vet.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
@Critter Mom,

Hello I updated the labs: put 3 different dates.
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
@Critter Mom - she has the labs on the spreadsheet (unless she added them after you mentioned it!)

The elevated creatinine and BUN could be kidney issues. Could you look over your printouts and see if there's an SDMA. It the labs were sent out to IDEXX, they run this test pretty routinely. It's a test that's predictive of kidney issues.

I do think it would be good if you could get more liquid into your kitty. When you mention that you are cooking chicken, are you using this in addition to a canned food (DM?) and if not, are you adding a premix to the cooked chicken so Momo is getting all of the necessary nutrients? Plain cooked chicken is not a nutritionally complete diet. I always add water to my cat's food.
Click to expand...

@Critter Mom, @Sienne and Gabby (GA), @tiffmaxee, @jt and trouble (GA), @Nan & Amber (GA),

Hi,
Yes. I just added the lab results from 3 different dates. If protein , hopefully not kidney disease
( I started to give her only boiled and baked chicken about a month ago, I removed DM purina already). I always add a lot of water in her diet. I just pulled the scruff on her neck, and it came back so fast- I am pretty sure she is not dehydrated.. I did not mix the feline mix- I am afraid she does not need all those ingredients, that’s why I requested a new blood test as I am scared her calcium may be high. I put Vit B12, and Taurine on her chicken, and I am now shopping for omega 3 & 6 to mix. I also mix half cooked chicken liver on her foods like 2-3 x in a week. SDMA said ok..


Thank you


Thank you
 
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You really need to give supplements if all you're feeding is chicken. Supplements like taurine and a variety of vitamins are absolutely necessary to a cat's diet or you will have all sorts of medical problems. EZ Complete is a premix that I use. This is a link to their website. You can also look at Dr. Lisa's page. She has information on a raw/cooked homemade diet along with a recipe to give you an idea of what's involved in insuring your cat is getting a nutritionally complete diet.

If all you ate was chicken, you'd have scurvy and a lot of other dietary deficiencies. It's the same for your kitty.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
@Critter Mom - she has the labs on the spreadsheet (unless she added them after you mentioned it!)

The elevated creatinine and BUN could be kidney issues. Could you look over your printouts and see if there's an SDMA. It the labs were sent out to IDEXX, they run this test pretty routinely. It's a test that's predictive of kidney issues.

I do think it would be good if you could get more liquid into your kitty. When you mention that you are cooking chicken, are you using this in addition to a canned food (DM?) and if not, are you adding a premix to the cooked chicken so Momo is getting all of the necessary nutrients? Plain cooked chicken is not a nutritionally complete diet. I always add water to my cat's food.
Click to expand...
tiffmaxee said:
Wait a minute. You aren’t feeding her a vitamin supplement like EZ Complete? If just chicken and Stella’s just as a topper she will be deficient is some things.
Click to expand...
@tiffmaxee,
No, because Lisa From catinfo.org only added b12, Taurine, omega oil and vit E
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
You really need to give supplements if all you're feeding is chicken. Supplements like taurine and a variety of vitamins are absolutely necessary to a cat's diet or you will have all sorts of medical problems. EZ Complete is a premix that I use. This is a link to their website. You can also look at Dr. Lisa's page. She has information on a raw/cooked homemade diet along with a recipe to give you an idea of what's involved in insuring your cat is getting a nutritionally complete diet.

If all you ate was chicken, you'd have scurvy and a lot of other dietary deficiencies. It's the same for your kitty.
Click to expand...
@tiffmaxee, @Sienne and Gabby (GA) ,

Yeah.. I put Taurine, B12, and now shopping for onega 3 and 6
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Oh, good!!

Check Nordic Naturals for omega's. They are very high quality and they come in pet friendly bottles (the dropper has a gauge for pets).
Click to expand...
Should I still buy the pre mix? I am a little nervous now. Because someone mentioned before that
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Oh, good!!

Check Nordic Naturals for omega's. They are very high quality and they come in pet friendly bottles (the dropper has a gauge for pets).
Click to expand...
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
Hi, should I buy now the pre mix? Because someone mentioned before that cats do not really need all those supplements.. like calcium and phosphorus. Cats can get that from their foods. Too much calcium also bad? Maybe I buy, and mix it
Like 2x a week? Thanks
 
EZ Complete is nutritionally solid. I do use Nordic Naturals omega 3 anchovy and sardines daily even though I feed mine Primal and Small Batch. You need B vitamins as well. Look at cat info.org

I’m not saying she doesn’t have early kidney disease but rather that the tests need to be run again and a urinalysis done to determine that. All could be fine but you need her hydrated and to check the USG and for any protein in her urine. While you are at it you might want to get a baseline blood pressure measurement. I did that with Max and was unpleasantly surprised to learn he had high BP but at the time his kidneys were good.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Calcium is needed for bone health.

IF your cat has kidney issues, a high level of phosphorus can be a problem. Someone blindly saying that supplements are a problem, is not good advice. I would really look at the website (catinfo.org) that I linked for more information or do more reading on feline nutrition.
Click to expand...
@Sienne and Gabby (GA), @tiffmaxee, @Critter Mom , @jt and trouble (GA), @Nan & Amber (GA),

Thank you so much. I am buying the mix now. I used the Feline mix before but it says - only for raw, so I stopped it. Also, the on call Vet - is advising Fructosamine ($100, she said), do I really need this? And what is this for?

Also - The urine I got, Momo mixed it with few of the litters - so it was not that clear, is it still good for testing? I don't want to wait another day.. uggh, waiting another day feels like a decade for me - 10 years for me...

Thank you to everyone
 
No, you don't need a fructosamine test. That will give an "averaged" view of her blood glucose over the last few weeks. You home test and get a much clearer idea of what her blood glucose numbers are on a daily and hourly schedule-- the fructosamine test won't tell you anything you don't already know.

I don't know on the urine, I'm sorry. Maybe ask the vet who wants the sample?
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
No, you don't need a fructosamine test. That will give an "averaged" view of her blood glucose over the last few weeks. You home test and get a much clearer idea of what her blood glucose numbers are on a daily and hourly schedule-- the fructosamine test won't tell you anything you don't already know.

I don't know on the urine, I'm sorry. Maybe ask the vet who wants the sample?
Click to expand...

Ok.. thank you.. That's what I told her - she said to find out if the insulin is properly working, and besides the Alpha Trak 2 - is always giving me anumber like average for 7 days, and average for 30 days, and some others days..
Btw, there was a thread somewhere here posted - like to join if you want them to study your pet and they will give you some information about the cat's health. Have you read that? I think they need fructosamine test on that?

Thank you.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
A small amount of chicken liver is great each day. However Chicken liver will not give you any calcium. For calcium you need either bone, egg shell powder or a calcium supplement. Calcium is essential.
Click to expand...

Thank you.. I am looking at the website now for the EZ complete mix. But Lisa from her website did not mention anything about mixing the food with Ez complete mix or Feline mix.. I will just buy it now..

Thanks
 
You need bones or supplements, vitamins, hearts, plain meat, and liver, kidney, pancreas. You need to look at a raw diet as a full animal, a prey the cat would eat and you can't take parts of it out, then you'll get a sick cat.
It takes a lot of research to make your own food, to make sure your cat doesn't get malnourished.
The safest way to go is canned food to make sure the cat gets every need covered, and then raw.
 
SashaV said:
You need bones or supplements, vitamins, hearts, plain meat, and liver, kidney, pancreas. You need to look at a raw diet as a full animal, a prey the cat would eat and you can't take parts of it out, then you'll get a sick cat.
It takes a lot of research to make your own food, to make sure your cat doesn't get malnourished.
The safest way to go is canned food to make sure the cat gets every need covered, and then raw.
Click to expand...

@SashaV, @tiffmaxee, @Critter Mom , @jt and trouble (GA), @Bron and Sheba (GA), @Nan & Amber (GA), @Sienne and Gabby (GA),

SashaV,
You know you are absolutely right on this. I never thought about that. It is very true - in the wild - they eat all the parts of the animal (prey), not just the meat.. it makes sense to me now. I am very very new on all of this, and really learning everything all at once.. Thank you all, because I am just worried that if excess supplements are also no good.
I just placed an order for EZ mix (priority mail, I hope I get it in 3 days as I am preparing her food in 3 days, almost finish..), I also ordered ALNUTRIN - I will see which one is better (too late when I saw it has calcium carbonate - I heard it is no good with calcium carbonate). For the meantime - maybe I can use the feline mix (I still have - but that is only for raw?).

Thanks a lot to all of you... I don't know what to do without you giving me all these advises.

Take care...
 
SashaV said:
You need bones or supplements, vitamins, hearts, plain meat, and liver, kidney, pancreas. You need to look at a raw diet as a full animal, a prey the cat would eat and you can't take parts of it out, then you'll get a sick cat.
It takes a lot of research to make your own food, to make sure your cat doesn't get malnourished.
The safest way to go is canned food to make sure the cat gets every need covered, and then raw.
Click to expand...
I disagree about canned being the safest. Raw is fine and perhaps best provided the correct supplements are added. @Marje and Gracie did extensive research and uses EZComplete. You don’t know what part of the animal is in the canned. I do agree that an incomplete raw diet is worse than canned.
 
Ya know what Len? I'd love to feed a raw die to my Zoe. I SERIOUSLY doubt she would eat it. BUT If I could I would have to rely on companies that have the proper mix of supplements allll in one packet or packets all measured out and complete. Doing it on my own I would be, counting and recounting, measuring and remeasuring ... I'd never feel totally safe. I would throw myself on the mercy of a companies quality, than my own decision making. I simply dont trust myself.
 
Dr. Lisa gives a recipe for making raw food and she includes all of the supplements needed. A pre-mix, like EZ Complete, has all of the supplements so you do not have to buy them individually. Dr. Lisa used to have a link to a different pre-mix company but they are located in Canada and had famed out the US distribution. It became very unreliable. One of the members here did a lot of research on the available pre-mixes and found EZ Complete. If you have questions, the owners of the company are very responsive. You may want to contact them and ask about mixing it with cooked food.
 
1.8 creatnine is very early stage 2 kidney disease. The elevated bun tells me she might be dehydrated.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Ya know what Len? I'd love to feed a raw die to my Zoe. I SERIOUSLY doubt she would eat it. BUT If I could I would have to rely on companies that have the proper mix of supplements allll in one packet or packets all measured out and complete. Doing it on my own I would be, counting and recounting, measuring and remeasuring ... I'd never feel totally safe. I would throw myself on the mercy of a companies quality, than my own decision making. I simply dont trust myself.
Click to expand...
And thats why I use mush barf, and no it ain't puke :D

https://www.mushbarf.com/en/
 
JanetNJ said:
1.8 creatnine is very early stage 2 kidney disease. The elevated bun tells me she might be dehydrated.
Click to expand...
@tiffmaxee, @JanetNJ, @jt and trouble (GA), @Nan & Amber (GA), @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

I just don't understand - she was just @ 1.2 creatinine on June 6, then after 2 months - she went that high? and between June 6-now, her her BG is even at a good level. Maybe she eats a lot of high protein? the chicken that I was making?

Because can foods have lower protein? or dry foods?

Thanks
 
Wow....lots of misinformation here today.:woot::p

First, her SDMA and creatinine are normal. That means that, as of right now, she does not have CKD. I, personally, wouldn’t worry about a USG because the SDMA picks up CKD even before the USG does. Just because her creatinine si 1.8, it doesn’t not mean she is in Stage 2 of CKD. You gotta look at the whole picture. My Tobey’s creatinine has always run at 1.8 - 1.9 his entire life and he’s ten. His USG is often a bit too concentrated.

Cats fed high protein diets can have higher BUN. Period. Dot. Stress also can increase the BUN. Could she have been a little dehydrated when the test was run? Yes. Her hematocrit and albumin are also a bit on the high side which also indicates a bit of dehydration. I really don’t get overly excited about a high BUN when everything else looks fine.

Actually, I’m more concerned with her high potassium. Yes, it’s just a snapshot but are you giving her any kind of potassium? You want to keep an eye on that number and discuss it with your vet. Again, sometimes with these snapshots we see a number that is off here and there but there are some that bear watching. I also think her phosphorus is way too high and that could be from feeding bone broth.

If you use EZC, you do not need to add anything else, typically, although I do give my cats a daily supplement of taurine because I make my food in very large batches and freeze it after I make it; sometimes that can decrease the taurine a bit especially over time. I don’t add the taurine to the food. I give it to them with a few other supplements they get for other things and syringe it. I have spoken with the owner of EZC and she said they do add extra taurine over what is absolutely necessary.

And even though the EZC has green-lipped mussel which is an Omega3, I also supplement my cats with extra (I use Moxxor as I prefer the mussel to fish oil) because they both have, currently, benign occasional PVCs and congenital heart valve issues, also currently benign. If you use the EZC with raw, I would not give her any additional raw liver. You can overdo it. I used Alnutrin before EZC and it’s an excellent supplement but you have to add raw liver and I found that to be a pain. Also, I used the eggshell calcium form of the Alnutrin.

EZC can be used with cooked food and they discuss how to do that on their website.

Raw fed cats have stools less often. My two usually only have a poo every other day. Sometimes Liv goes a bit longer but as long as her poos don’t look hard and dry, it’s fine. I do use egg yolk powder also from FoodFurLife. It’s an excellent product and helps with many things including constipation. Any time you feed any raw food that has bone, you may see some constipation.

Canned vs balanced raw. Your choice but if you read truthaboutpetfood.com, you might have more info to decide. IMHO, the commercial dry and canned pet food companies are not being honest. More than 50% of cats die from cancer and also, IMHO, that is very often related to diet. But if you feed raw, you either have to do the research to be absolutely sure it is balanced for the life stage and current health of your cat or get a reputable and balanced premix. Feeding a prey model with meat, bones, and organs is great but takes a lot of research and time. And...feeding balanced raw isn’t necessarily inexpensive but my philosophy is pay now for better health or pay later in vet bills.

I absolutely would not ever add any premix to a balanced canned food. You can overdo it. Not sure if I understood correctly that you are or are not doing that but I wouldn’t.

Did I answer all the questions :smuggrin::smuggrin:
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Wow....lots of misinformation here today.:woot::p

First, her SDMA and creatinine are normal. That means that, as of right now, she does not have CKD. I, personally, wouldn’t worry about a USG because the SDMA picks up CKD even before the USG does. Just because her creatinine si 1.8, it doesn’t not mean she is in Stage 2 of CKD. You gotta look at the whole picture. My Tobey’s creatinine has always run at 1.8 - 1.9 his entire life and he’s ten. His USG is often a bit too concentrated.

Cats fed high protein diets can have higher BUN. Period. Dot. Stress also can increase the BUN. Could she have been a little dehydrated when the test was run? Yes. Her hematocrit and albumin are also a bit on the high side which also indicates a bit of dehydration. I really don’t get overly excited about a high BUN when everything else looks fine.

Actually, I’m more concerned with her high potassium. Yes, it’s just a snapshot but are you giving her any kind of potassium? You want to keep an eye on that number and discuss it with your vet. Again, sometimes with these snapshots we see a number that is off here and there but there are some that bear watching. I also think her phosphorus is way too high and that could be from feeding bone broth.

If you use EZC, you do not need to add anything else, typically, although I do give my cats a daily supplement of taurine because I make my food in very large batches and freeze it after I make it; sometimes that can decrease the taurine a bit especially over time. I don’t add the taurine to the food. I give it to them with a few other supplements they get for other things and syringe it. I have spoken with the owner of EZC and she said they do add extra taurine over what is absolutely necessary.

And even though the EZC has green-lipped mussel which is an Omega3, I also supplement my cats with extra (I use Moxxor as I prefer the mussel to fish oil) because they both have, currently, benign occasional PVCs and congenital heart valve issues, also currently benign. If you use the EZC with raw, I would not give her any additional raw liver. You can overdo it. I used Alnutrin before EZC and it’s an excellent supplement but you have to add raw liver and I found that to be a pain. Also, I used the eggshell calcium form of the Alnutrin.

EZC can be used with cooked food and they discuss how to do that on their website.

Raw fed cats have stools less often. My two usually only have a poo every other day. Sometimes Liv goes a bit longer but as long as her poos don’t look hard and dry, it’s fine. I do use egg yolk powder also from FoodFurLife. It’s an excellent product and helps with many things including constipation. Any time you feed any raw food that has bone, you may see some constipation.

Canned vs balanced raw. Your choice but if you read truthaboutpetfood.com, you might have more info to decide. IMHO, the commercial dry and canned pet food companies are not being honest. More than 50% of cats die from cancer and also, IMHO, that is very often related to diet. But if you feed raw, you either have to do the research to be absolutely sure it is balanced for the life stage and current health of your cat or get a reputable and balanced premix. Feeding a prey model with meat, bones, and organs is great but takes a lot of research and time. And...feeding balanced raw isn’t necessarily inexpensive but my philosophy is pay now for better health or pay later in vet bills.

I absolutely would not ever add any premix to a balanced canned food. You can overdo it. Not sure if I understood correctly that you are or are not doing that but I wouldn’t.

Did I answer all the questions :smuggrin::smuggrin:
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@Marje and Gracie, @tiffmaxee, @Critter Mom, @Nan & Amber (GA), @jt and trouble (GA), @Bron and Sheba (GA) ,

Hello all, most especially to Marj and Gracie,

Thank you so much! Upon reading your message... you just lifted my spirit and gave me hope again. I went to drop her urine to the vet, and went home to give her dose.. coming back to work, my head was spinning like a roller coaster - asking myself - what have I done again to her? I gave her too much protein, and now she has Stage 2 Kidney failure. I started to glance at the phone - and started to look for diet for renal disease... like Hills? they said low protein - but then with diabetes - needs high protein.. I really don't know what to do?

Yes, I am hoping that what you said is what the urine will say - and what is next to her? Should I stop feeding the chicken? And I just bought the pre-mix?
I am so sorry --- I am so confused... should I buy canned foods instead?

--- yes - she was so stressed when the Vet took her blood. My husband and I was holding her (and we are very inexperienced with this), the vet was sorry that she did not bring a tech with her. She asked me if she needs too - I said we could help, because whenever I give her insulin - Momo is very relaxed, she just closes her eyes and never move, not knowing - drawing blood is not the same. It took the vet 3 legs to draw a blood (so sorry for MM)..
----The vet - suspects she is dehydrated - not sure why - because I always put too much water on her foods... One thing I noticed- whenever she pees, it sounds like my faucet - a lot of water with sounds. I did not pay attention on that - because I am thinking- I am always putting a lot of water on her foods, then of course- she has a lot of urine.. Let say she licked the liquid from her foods, I will take it again - and put more water with fortiflora.. That is always like that, then if she is -- I am reading , they will give her an IV?
--- About Potassium, I did not give her Potassium supplements - maybe the Stella & Chewy? maybe it has a lot? I will check the ingredients later and look.

---- Also have you heard the "Pretty Litter". I bought it last week, and it has a feature to tell you if the cat's urine has a problem -- it changes the color - like it will turn red if urine has blood, it will turn another color if it i acidic.. etc..
---When I checked MM, it is normal... but not sure if reliable.. i will see what's her urinalysis will say..
--- maybe other wants to check it out, just sharing whoever wants to try it.

Thanks

Thank you very much..
 
MamaLovesMomo said:
I gave her too much protein, and now she has Stage 2 Kidney failure.
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A high protein diet won’t cause CKD. No worries. Also....when you get the USG back, remember that USG changes during the day. Think in terms of your own urine if you are drinking enough liquid: it’s more concentrated first thing in the morning and then as the day goes and you are drinking, your urine should become almost undetectable in the toilet if you are properly hydrating. Same thing happens with cats. Therefore, the best way to determine if they are capable of concentrating their urine, which is the most important thing when contemplating CKD, is to check the first urine sample of the day. As the day progresses, they drink alot of water, you add liquid to their food, etc, the USG will typically drop. Now it shouldn’t drop down to 1.020 or numbers that low but it will drop. So, again, you have to look at the big picture and not just one factor. Interestingly, her USG was lower than it should be in May when she was diagnosed but I’m assuming that because she was diabetic, she was drinking and peeing alot and that would account for it.

MamaLovesMomo said:
Yes, I am hoping that what you said is what the urine will say - and what is next to her? Should I stop feeding the chicken? And I just bought the pre-mix?
I am so sorry --- I am so confused... should I buy canned foods instead?
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I fed Gracie canned food (wish I hadn’t) because, at the time, I didn’t like the choices in the balanced raw (EZC was not on the market and I hadn’t discovered Alnutrin) but I also gave her a small portion of boiled chicken treat each day. If this is what you are doing, that’s fine as long Momo is getting the number of calories she needs from a balanced canned or raw diet. A little boiled chicken treat is fine in that case. But if you are feeding her more than just a small treat of boiled chicken, then you need to rethink it. It’s up to you whether you want to feed canned or balanced raw food. For me, I don’t trust commercial pet food companies that make canned food. I just don’t; I’m a big proponent of “you are what you eat” and cancer rates have gone up with people and pets and it is often attributable to diet. My Tobey (10 yrs) has been on a balanced raw diet since he was 2 and my Livia (4 yrs) since I got her at 12 weeks old. It’s is extremely important when changing to a balanced raw diet or even between two different kinds of balanced raw, that you do it very, very slowly. Tobey was originally on Primal commercial raw and when I switched him to Alnutrin and then to EZC, I did it super slow. Same with Liv. I started with one protein and first just substituted 1/4 tsp of new with old. Fed a few days and if all was ok, increased to 1/2 tsp, etc until I finally was replacing all the old with the new but it was very gradual. Then I started over with the next protein so each protein was introduced slowly. Yes, it takes time and patience but so worth it and neither of them ever had any diarrhea or constipation. They both now eat six different proteins with EZC added and I rotate proteins every day. It’s super easy because i make food in batches.

MamaLovesMomo said:
----The vet - suspects she is dehydrated - not sure why - because I always put too much water on her foods... One thing I noticed- whenever she pees, it sounds like my faucet - a lot of water with sounds. I did not pay attention on that - because I am thinking- I am always putting a lot of water on her foods, then of course- she has a lot of urine.. Let say she licked the liquid from her foods, I will take it again - and put more water with fortiflora.. That is always like that, then if she is -- I am reading , they will give her an IV?
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She’s probably saying that based on the labs. Remember that dehydration can be just that she hadn’t had enough liquids as of the time the labs were drawn. It doesn’t mean dehydration like a CKD cat can get or a cat that has been vomiting or having diarrhea. I have to add alot of extra water to my raw food or both my cats labs make them look dehydrated at that moment but neither of them is really dehydrated clinically. In other words, their skin pops right back when pulled up and their gums are nice and slick. They wouldn’t give IV fluids in the instance you are talking about or even have you give subq fluids at home. Does she drink a ton of water on her own and is she in the litter box alot more? Again, her labs at this time do not indicate CKD.

MamaLovesMomo said:
About Potassium, I did not give her Potassium supplements - maybe the Stella & Chewy? maybe it has a lot? I will check the ingredients later and look.
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It would be odd for a food to have so much potassium that it would raise her potassium levels. Phosphorus, absolutely. However, I never say “never”. And again, snapshot.

Yes, I know of that litter but haven’t used it so I don’t know about it’s reliability. Other members might.

It is interesting that some of the factors we look at for CKD are increased: creatinine, BUN, phosphorus (although this was high in June as well); her potassium was normal in June. But with normal SDMA and a normal creatinine; I’d not worry. I’d ask your vet when the best time to recheck her labs is.
 
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