6/17 new member. Shot getting harder

[Nelson and Taz]

Hi. My boy Nelson was diagnosed at start of may and was a real champ about it. Now giving injections has become more challenging and he's pulling away and meowing when the needle goes in. His numbers have gone from very low to between 15-20 all day. I'm worried he's not getting his full dose of lantus and don't understand why he seems pained about his shot.

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

Hi, can you try set up a Spreadsheet, SS, so we see what's going on.
Instructions here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Also short info about kitty in your account Signature, as you can see from mine in this post.


Welcome.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Are you letting him eat when you give the shot?

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

needle gauge? I cant remember whats the best.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Where are you shooting? Scruff or side of the body? Sometimes Minnie reacts too and I move to another spot. Most of the time it’s if I didn’t grab enough skin to pull up or if it’s too close to her neck area

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Insulin type??? Whats the insulin that stings? guys?

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Are you letting him eat when you give the shot?

He's very food driven but won't let me scruff his neck while eating anymore, he backs away.

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Where are you shooting? Scruff or side of the body? Sometimes Minnie reacts too and I move to another spot. Most of the time it’s if I didn’t grab enough skin to pull up or if it’s too close to her neck area

Ok, that's interesting. I was trying to move more to the side to avoid the same spot. Perhaps I'm not getting enough skin. He's just being very uncooperative now.

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Insulin type??? Whats the insulin that stings? guys?

He's on lantus.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

He's on lantus.

Thank you! (ya know if you had a signature You could put that info in there. Are you interested? You can find that info here:
Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area

I havent seen where Lantus stings so must not be that.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Ok, that's interesting. I was trying to move more to the side to avoid the same spot. Perhaps I'm not getting enough skin. He's just being very uncooperative now.

Try to pinch as much skin as you can. What’s the dosage? The other thing is Lantus can sting at higher doses. It can also sting if it’s cold right out of the fridge. Are you letting the Lantus in the syringe warm up to room temperature? Lastly, what’s the size of the needle? Shorter needles don’t go in quite as deep and it may not feel as painful to your cat

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Thank you! (ya know if you had a signature You could put that info in there. Are you interested? You can find that info here:
Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area

I havent seen where Lantus stings so must not be that.

Yes thanks, I'll do that today, just really needed advice fast.

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Try to pinch as much skin as you can. What’s the dosage? The other thing is Lantus can sting at higher doses. It can also sting if it’s cold right out of the fridge. Are you letting the Lantus in the syringe warm up to room temperature? Lastly, what’s the size of the needle? Shorter needles don’t go in quite as deep and it may not feel as painful to your cat

Thanks, that's helpful. I just got his morning shot done and I didn't poke the needle in as far (like all the way) and the dose was in the needle for maybe 10 minutes to warm up. He didn't complain! !! Yay so happy. Just hope that was the only issue. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Thanks, that's helpful. I just got his morning shot done and I didn't poke the needle in as far (like all the way) and the dose was in the needle for maybe 10 minutes to warm up. He didn't complain! !! Yay so happy. Just hope that was the only issue. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

These are the other sites you can give the insulin.
It is best to rotate the site and not give in the one spot all the time.
What is the size of your needle length?

 

[Nelson and Taz]

These are the other sites you can give the insulin.
It is best to rotate the site and not give in the one spot all the time.
What is the size of your needle length?
View attachment 54279

Thanks, that's helpful. The needles are BD ultra fine 0,3mL 0,33mm x 12,7 mm

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thanks, that's helpful. The needles are BD ultra fine 0,3mL 0,33mm x 12,7 mm

You can get the same syringes that have a shorter needle length....6 mm or 8 mm. When you next need to order some.....look for the shorter size.

 

[Nelson and Taz]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen 12. 6 is the longest I’ve used and I think that’s already too long. I betcha shorter ones will make a big difference. I’m down to 3 now I use the Walmart ReliOn ones

Yes I can see how the length could be upsetting him. I'll see what I can find here in Australia but will probably have to order from overseas. Thanks.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Yes I can see how the length could be upsetting him. I'll see what I can find here in Australia but will probably have to order from overseas. Thanks.

Hey! No need to order them from O/S.
I am from Sydney Australia too and you can get the 6 or 8 mm ones from pharmacies. Just make sure they are the U-100 0.3ml ones.

Did you name your kitty Taz after the Tasmanian Tiger? My son had a black Labrador he call Taz after the Tas Tiger and when I saw your Taz I thought of him.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Just to add if you want 1/2 unit syringes you will need to order them from overseas.
You will find the information where to order it in this link. Also lots of other Aussie info
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/information-for-aussie-feline-diabetic-caregivers.217781/

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Hey! No need to order them from O/S.
I am from Sydney Australia too and you can get the 6 or 8 mm ones from pharmacies. Just make sure they are the U-100 0.3ml ones.

Did you name your kitty Taz after the Tasmanian Tiger? My son had a black Labrador he call Taz after the Tas Tiger and when I saw your Taz I thought of him.

Lol, no I'm Taz, originally from Tasmania and my boy is Nelson cause he's a bit of a bully like Nelson off the Simpsons. I set up my account in a bit of a hurry. Thanks for the heads up about the syringes ☺ I'm up near Nimbin, I'll check the chemist tomorrow.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Lol, no I'm Taz, originally from Tasmania and my boy is Nelson cause he's a bit of a bully like Nelson off the Simpsons. I set up my account in a bit of a hurry. Thanks for the heads up about the syringes ☺ I'm up near Nimbin, I'll check the chemist tomorrow.

I didn’t realize this at first but you can change your name in settings if you’d like

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Lol, no I'm Taz, originally from Tasmania and my boy is Nelson cause he's a bit of a bully like Nelson off the Simpsons. I set up my account in a bit of a hurry. Thanks for the heads up about the syringes ☺ I'm up near Nimbin, I'll check the chemist tomorrow.

Haha! About the names!
Ok so it’s Nelson who has the FD.
If you can’t get the syringes from the chemist, they can order them for you. Alternatively if you want the 1/2 unit syringes you can order them from the UK and they are here is about 10 days.

I just looked at your SS and it doesn’t look right. I’m not sure what you have done, but I’m going to tag @Marje and Gracie to have a look at it.
From what I can see with the dosing you are not sticking with one dose but are changing it frequently. Lantus likes consistency because it is a depot insulin and if you chop and change the numbers are likely to be wonky. Once you get the SS sorted out we will be able to see better.

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Yes we had a problem with him going too low and staying there so long that I couldn't give the pm shot. Then things went to hell. He had the libre monitor on for the first month. He was started at 4 units twice a day but that was reduced quickly as the vet said he was very responsive to the insulin. He would spend 8 hours under 2.5 on the libre, it would just say LO but he didn't get clinical or go hypo. Now he seems to not be responding to the insulin very well, staying too high, not going under 10. If you could pass that info on it would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Il also tag @Chris & China (GA) to have a look at the SS. I can't even see any of it now.
Starting at 4 units is wayyy to high a dose and staying at under 2.5 for 8 hours is just plain dangerous. LO is very dangerous. You are lucky he didn't have a seizure. The problem is most cats don't show symptoms until suddenly they do and it is often a seizure or becoming unconscious.
If he drops low like that again rub some honey on his gums and retest in 20 minutes. It's really important to get him up over 3 quickly. Honey only lasts for about an hour or an hour land a half so you need to also give him some high carb food to eat as well.
Do you have any high carb food in the cupboard?

Once we can see the SS we will be able to help you a lot. So the first thing is to get that sorted.
Did you read the link to all the Australian information I sent you?
It has a link on how to treat a hypo. I would print that off and put on your fridge. You need that information quickly when it's needed. And make sure you have a hypo box always ready and full for use. Believe me, it is really hard to help someone who has a cat in low numbers when they have nothing available to help the cat.

What dose of Lantus are you giving now? Do you always test before giving every shot of insulin?
When do you feed Nelson? Do you feed him before the shots? And do you also feed him during the cycles?
What type of meter are you using now?
Hang in there, we can help you. When I arrived in 2015 I was at my wits end too.

 

[Nelson and Taz]

Thanks. I hope my ss is working now and some info in my signature. I could deal with Nelson's lows because he had the libre monitor on. I would give him small amounts of bikkies (kibble) until he got over 3mmol and I had the ability to check his levels every ten minutes lol. This site helped me be very prepared for a hypo. Problem now though is he's too high. Probably still has uti (taking urine sample in tomorrow ) that's been 6 weeks and 3 lots of antibiotics. It's unbearable seeing him drink and pee so much when you know it's hurting his little body. He'll be on 2 units in morning if pre test is over 15mmol as it has been. He eats fansy feast pate twice a day with probably a whole steamed chicken breast over the day and sometimes an extra half can of ff. It's food then shot. I use accu chek monitor. Thanks for helping. I do have a very good vet but I want every option and experience means a great deal.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I can see the SS now Taz but it needs work done on it to get rid of all the extra 0 in all the columns. It’s really hard to read the numbers with all those 0s there. And there is no colour in it.
It looks like you are not always taking a reading before giving the shots. Please always test first to see it is safe to give the shot.
And if you can get at least one test in during the PM cycle as it is just as important as the am cycle. Try getting a before bed test in each night. If that test is much lower than the preshot I would set the alarm and get up and test later to see that the BG hasn’t dropped too low. Cats often drop lower at night.

You need to pick a dose and stick to it for at least 3 days, unless he drops too low in which case you would reduce the dose. Chopping and changing the dose based on the preshot is not how Lantus is used. The dose is based on the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, not the preshot numbers when you are using Lantus.
I would go back to 1 unit and stay with that dose for three days to let the depot settle before you increase. If the BG drops under 2.8 (50) on TR or 5 (90) on SLGS you reduce by 0.25 units.
Have you thought about which of the two dosing methods you would like to follow?
The tight regulation or the start low go slow method.
Here is a link to the two methods. Choosing one makes it far easier to follow and you will find it should settle things down..
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

Did Nelson have any ketones in his urine when he was diagnosed.

Why do you think he still has a UTI?
Some of those higher numbers could be from bouncing. But we can’t tell until you are getting tests in during all the cycles and all the preshots. Cats can bounce from dropping too low, dropping too fast or dropping lower than they are used. The body then panics and dumps stored glucose and regulatory hormones into the system causing the BG to shoot up. Bounces can last for up to 6 cycles and the is nothing you can do about them but wait them out.