Can someone review my SS (newly diagnosed)

NoahFL

Member Since 2020
Hello! Would someone mind reviewing my SS and see how we are doing? Had a scare this morning with a high BG. Max is newly diagnosed, so of course my nerves are getting the best of me.

Original post

Thank you!
 
It came down quite a bit from that high morning. Could he have gotten into some food?

VERY possible. This morning we were still free feeding dry which I have taken up. No more dry. Going to try wet 3xs a day. I have 2 other cats too so going to try everyone on wet.
 
VERY possible. This morning we were still free feeding dry which I have taken up. No more dry. Going to try wet 3xs a day. I have 2 other cats too so going to try everyone on wet.
Ok then I wouldn’t worry too much about that black number. Most likely it was the dry. :).
 
@JanetNJ Will stick with 2.5U. He got 1/3 can (5.5oz can) at +5 after morning shot. Just now he was back at 542. I did give him 2.5U and then feed him 1/3 can. Will it take a few days for his BG adjusting to no dry food? Thank you
 
My understanding is that dry food can take a while to move through the digestive tract. Several days. While it's still clearing a cat's system, it's possible it will still be keeping the BG levels a bit higher.

His body needs to adjust to the diet change too. So yes, it could take a few days for Max's BG levels to go lower.
 
My understanding is that dry food can take a while to move through the digestive tract. Several days. While it's still clearing a cat's system, it's possible it will still be keeping the BG levels a bit higher.

His body needs to adjust to the diet change too. So yes, it could take a few days for Max's BG levels to go lower.

Thank you. This is certainly an emotional roller coaster. I understand every cat is different now, but I was expecting similar results from him as my previous diabetic cat. Getting the insulin in his system, numbers would go down consistently and everything would be fine.

May have to put a lid on my hedgehogs house tonight as he may try to sneak in and get some dry since his has been taken away.
 
May have to put a lid on my hedgehogs house tonight as he may try to sneak in and get some dry since his has been taken away.
Oh my gosh! The things we have to think of doing to keep our diabetic cats from getting into the dry food. For Max, sounds like it doesn't matter if it's the hedgies food, he just WANTS dry.

I had to put one of those hook and eye hooks on my closets, so the cats could not open the bifold door to get to the food when I was not around.
 
Oh my gosh! The things we have to think of doing to keep our diabetic cats from getting into the dry food. For Max, sounds like it doesn't matter if it's the hedgies food, he just WANTS dry.

I had to put one of those hook and eye hooks on my closets, so the cats could not open the bifold door to get to the food when I was not around.

haha! If only they knew we were doing this to keep them healthy. His ears are so bruised and I feel awful. I wish he knew it was to keep him safe. My husband holds him when I lance his ear and he will actually purr, so I guess it doesn’t hurt that bad? Thanks so much for the replies. It really does help calm my nerves.
 
So AMPS was 397. Not good, but better. The cats were acting like they were starving. Split 1 can between all 3. Izzy didn’t finish all her food, but of course Max did. This is definitely an adjustment for them all not getting dry food. @Deb & Wink or @JanetNJ , how long should I wait before determining to increase the dosage? Thank you.
 
So AMPS was 397. Not good, but better. The cats were acting like they were starving. Split 1 can between all 3. Izzy didn’t finish all her food, but of course Max did. This is definitely an adjustment for them all not getting dry food. @Deb & Wink or @JanetNJ , how long should I wait before determining to increase the dosage? Thank you.
Glad you are out of the black numbers. So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if you are feeding a 10 lb cat that would be about 200 calories per day. Diabetics with unregulated numbers sometimes will need more because they aren't utilizing the nutrients properly. Just something to keep in mind. Fingers crossed for some good numbers today.
 
His ears are so bruised and I feel awful. I wish he knew it was to keep him safe. My husband holds him when I lance his ear and he will actually purr, so I guess it doesn’t hurt that bad?
Bruised ears you say? Do you hold pressure on the spot after the poke, and after you have gotten the blood on the test strip? Hold for 20-30 seconds and that helps to stop the blood from pooling, and that pooling of blood beneath the skin is what a bruise really is.

Also, double check that you are aiming for the "sweet spot" at the edge of the ear, and not the marginal ear vein itself.
Diagram and lots more in this link. Marje and Gracie's Testing and Shooting Tips
  • Be sure to poke in the "sweet spot" and not the major vein that runs along the length of the ear. Poking the vein will not only hurt, but will result in a lot of blood. The sweet spot is on the edge of the ear.
4395c545-36bf-4aba-bec7-4392fcdb191c-jpeg.48119



p.s. Looking good there Max, BG wise. How do you feel buddy? 5 P's and appetite all good?
 
Bruised ears you say? Do you hold pressure on the spot after the poke, and after you have gotten the blood on the test strip? Hold for 20-30 seconds and that helps to stop the blood from pooling, and that pooling of blood beneath the skin is what a bruise really is.

Also, double check that you are aiming for the "sweet spot" at the edge of the ear, and not the marginal ear vein itself.
Diagram and lots more in this link. Marje and Gracie's Testing and Shooting Tips
  • Be sure to poke in the "sweet spot" and not the major vein that runs along the length of the ear. Poking the vein will not only hurt, but will result in a lot of blood. The sweet spot is on the edge of the ear.
4395c545-36bf-4aba-bec7-4392fcdb191c-jpeg.48119



p.s. Looking good there Max, BG wise. How do you feel buddy? 5 P's and appetite all good?

I do believe I’m hitting the sweet spot. In the beginning it didn’t seem like his ear would bleed much, now I have no problem getting a small drop. Vaseline has helped a lot. I was only holding for about 5 seconds. I will hold longer.

His appetite is really good. I’m feeding the crew 3 times a day and sit with them to make sure everyone eats their own food. Still gauging on how much food to give him. Fortunately due to COVID I’m still teleworking, but when I go back I’ll have to develop a new routine. Right now it’s breakfast and AM shot between 8-830, 2pm lunch, then dinner and PM shot between 8-830.

By Janet’s math, it should be just under 3 FF cans. He’s 14.5#. He is also using the litter box much less and consuming less water. I get to end the night in a positive way.

Thanks again! This forum is amazing. Everyone is so friendly and knowledgeable.
 
Blacks = bouncing, almost every time.

Are you testing for ketones, with those high BG readings? Good idea to do that, if you aren't already. Urine ketone test strips or a blood ketone meter are your 2 choices.

Second thought for you? You need some night cycle tests, not just the PM pre-shot test. Many people get a "before bed" test every PM cycle.

Cats are often more active at night, so they burn up more energy (glucose) and drop lower overnight. And then they bounce like crazy by the morning. How can you find that out for Max? Testing.
 
I’ll pickup some ketone strips tomorrow. All I have are the DiaStix. I’ve went through a lot of BG strips this week. I have 3 strips left. Hope to get my shipment from Chewy tomorrow with more. Max generally sleeps with my daughter at night, but I can get some night readings once I get more strips. Thank you.
 
’ve went through a lot of BG strips this week. I have 3 strips left. Hope to get my shipment from Chewy tomorrow with more.
It's why so many of us use human meters, instead of the Alphatrak. Those test strips for the Alphatrak can't be purchased just anywhere. Plus they are expensive, $1-2 a piece. A Relion Prime meter and 100 test strips would be about 17 cents a strip. 1/4 the price of the Alphatrak test strips.
 
You can always buy the human meter, and keep the Alphatrak as a backup. In case you drop the human meter into the cat's water dish, somehow :rolleyes:, or the meter slips out of your hand and goes "Kerplunk" from 4 feet up onto a hard tile floor. :(:(:( It's nice to have a backup meter. Trust me.
 
@Deb & Wink Sounds like you have some experience with meters in water dishes and tile floors??

Max started out with a great number this morning, but terrible number tonight. This is so depressing. His strips should come in the mail tomorrow so I can get more samples throughout the day. I have one more strip for tomorrow morning, He seemed so spunky this morning, but tonight he doesn’t seem like he feels good. I had some Diastix Strips and took a urine sample and it was 1/2 which is lower than what it’s been. Feeling deflated again.
 
Sounds like you have some experience with meters in water dishes and tile floors??
You think so? You're 100% correct.

Feeling deflated again.
Less than 1 week since diagnosis and you are depressed about Max's progress? Please, give yourself a break. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Give it some time please. Patience little grasshopper. ECID Every Cat is Different and Max is different from your first diabetic cat.

Those blacks mean he probably dropped really low sometime in the middle of the AM cycle, and because your test strip supply is so low, you could NOT do another test to catch that.

Max looks like a really bouncy kitty right now. You'll see that when you get more test strips, and can do a test or two during the middle of the cycle, +5 to +7 would be good.
 
I did watch him like a hawk today for hypo, but he seemed fine. I am feeding him wet 3xs a day. As soon as the strips come in I’ll get more samples plus one before bed. Thank you, I do need to remember ECID. Love Max and want the best for him.

If I was able to catch him too low in the late AM, how could I have prevented the high number tonight?

Thank you for the support.
 
@Deb & Wink Sounds like you have some experience with meters in water dishes and tile floors??

Max started out with a great number this morning, but terrible number tonight. This is so depressing. His strips should come in the mail tomorrow so I can get more samples throughout the day. I have one more strip for tomorrow morning, He seemed so spunky this morning, but tonight he doesn’t seem like he feels good. I had some Diastix Strips and took a urine sample and it was 1/2 which is lower than what it’s been. Feeling deflated again.
You weren’t able to get any mid cycle readings today after that low preshot... it’s very possible he was down in blue numbers and bounced.
If it makes you feel any better I didn’t even see a yellow preshot until her third month on insulin.
 
I did watch him like a hawk today for hypo, but he seemed fine. I am feeding him wet 3xs a day. As soon as the strips come in I’ll get more samples plus one before bed. Thank you, I do need to remember ECID. Love Max and want the best for him.

If I was able to catch him too low in the late AM, how could I have prevented the high number tonight?
You probably can't prevent that bounce, but catching a low number in the middle of the 12 hour cycle let's you know that the high number at pre-shot is at least partially due to the low. Self protective mechanism kicks in and sends the BG levels shooting up high.

p.s.
@Deb & Wink Just read the last paragraph on Wink’s SS. In tears now....
Wink's profile is my tribute to him. Don't worry, reading it makes ME cry too. I tell people that Wink is why I'm here, helping others.
 
A couple of options for you.
Skip. As long as Max does not have ketones, this is the safest route.
BCS. Big Chicken Shot aka a "token dose" of 10 to 25% of his normal dose, and watch him like a hawk. Not sure if you want to stay up all night to do that.

Just saw you got a human meter. Test Max, and let me know what the BG is. You want it to be above 200, even with a human meter, since Max is so new to getting insulin.

Other options if he is between 150-200. But first, please test and post.

Thanks.

p.s. All our dosing protocols are written with human meter numbers in mind. So the protocols do not expect the Alphatrak readings.
 
@Deb & Wink , Let me first say how much I appreciate you! My anxiety was pegged when the strips didn’t arrive. I didn’t want to skip any doses. On the human meter he’s at 273.
 
He's over 200, so go ahead and shoot your normal dose, the 2.25U. If possible, get a +2 tonight, since that +2 often tells us what direction the BG is headed.

Let me go get that info for you. BRB.
 
First part is specific to lantus, written by Chris & China. Second part is more specific to Prozinc, written by me.

With lantus from Chris&China


The +2 is like an "early warning" for most cats!
If the +2 is about the same as the PS, it's usually a pretty normal cycle...dropping down to nadir and then rising back up again.
If the +2 is higher than the PS, that usually signals a bounce, and those are the cycles when you can usually take a break from testing.
If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "Early warning" that kitty might be going much lower later in the cycle so it's important to plan on getting another test or two (or 6) in.

It doesn’t work every time or with every cat. But it does hold true most of the time, so keep this in mind for next time.

With Prozinc by Deb & Wink

More than a number range, think of the percentage of the drop at +2, that may tell you if your cat is going to drop much lower. Think of that +2 as being an indicator of what direction the BG levels may be headed.
With Prozinc, if you see a 40%, 50% or greater drop, between the pre-shot and that +2, that's a serious heads up warning.
If you see a 20-25%, 30% drop, not quite so worrisome. But still be cautious.

Your cat drops 2 color ranges between pre-shot and the +2, pull out your hypo kit and plan on staying up to test.
Your cat drops 2 color ranges between pre-shot and the nadir, that is to be expected. But you don't want the drop to be much more than 50% between pre-shot and nadir with Prozinc.
Cats tend to bounce high if the drop is 50% or more from pre-shot to nadir.
So you steer those mid-cycles with food, to slow down the steep drop and stop the bounces from being too high.

It's a balancing act.

The +2 is like an "early warning" for most cats!
If the +2 is about the same as the PS, it's usually a pretty normal cycle...dropping down to nadir and then rising back up again. (About the same means taking meter variance, that 15% variance that hand held glucometers are allowed to have into account)
If the +2 is higher than the PS, that usually signals a bounce, and those are the cycles when you can usually take a break from testing.
If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "Early warning" that kitty might be going much lower later in the cycle so it's important to plan on getting another test or two (or 6) in.

It doesn’t work every time or with every cat. But it does hold true most of the time, so keep this in mind for next time.

It also kind of depends on what BG pre-shot your cat started out the cycle with. Lower than normal, keep a closer eye on the cycle. Lower than you are used to shooting, a number you may not have given insulin before, keep a closer eye on the cycle. Stalled and number rose some, but you did a reduced shot, maybe another test or 2 to see how much the number is rising.

It makes a big difference if your cat starts the cycle in the pink 300-399 mg/dL range (16.6 - 22.16 mmol/L) then if they are in the blue 150 mg/dL range ( 8.3 mmol/L).

p.s. Food notes in the Remarks column can be very useful. Helps to interpret what is happening in the cycle. Notes are done on AM and PM cycle basis and notations need to be with the + time format.
 
Thank you. I will check at +2 tonight. 273 is the lowest reading I’ve had at night, but it’s also with a different meter so I’m not sure how to compare.
 
Max had a good night. I’m noticing less water consumption and urine output. It was 246 on the human meter this morning. Gave him 2.25U. I have to go into work for a few hours, but my husband is going to keep an eye on him. Chewy box is out for delivery thank goodness. I’d like to get another day using the AT2 and if numbers remain constant, possibly increase insulin a tad. Thoughts? Thanks again. Y’all have been SO helpful.
 
Yes, looks like Max could use a bit more insulin. We base dose changes on the mid-cycle nadirs.

So if Max clears that bounce from today, and his mid-cycle nadir numbers are still >150 mg/dL, then it's time for a 0.25U increase with the Prozinc SLGS dosing protocol.

I’m noticing less water consumption and urine output.
Improving symptoms! You're on the right track with Max! Good job!
 
Yes, looks like Max could use a bit more insulin. We base dose changes on the mid-cycle nadirs.

So if Max clears that bounce from today, and his mid-cycle nadir numbers are still >150 mg/dL, then it's time for a 0.25U increase with the Prozinc SLGS dosing protocol.


Improving symptoms! You're on the right track with Max! Good job!

Thank you. Tonight he was 415 and I jinxed myself and got a fur shot. I try to alternate between the shoulder blades and sides and I have such a difficulty on the side of his shoulder blade. Didn’t redo of course since I don’t know how much he got.
 
Fur shots happen. We've all done them. You NEVER want to give more insulin if you think you gave a fur shot. Simply note it on the SS.

With a missed dose, that bounce will be a bit prolonged in all likelihood. :(
 
@Deb & Wink Need you advice, again. So Max despite the fur shot had a BG of 195 this morning. I just gave him wet food, but no insulin. How much should I give him? How do you explain this? Surely it should have been much higher this morning. Thank you, and sorry to bother you!
 
Hey Noah, the Prozinc Forum can be pretty quiet at times. I see @Panic is on. I recommend checking out the Prozinc Dosing Sticky found at the top of the Main Page for the Prozinc forum or posting over in Main Health if you're still not sure what to do.
 
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