Help with diabetic cat

[Cat Owner]

Our cat was diagnosed about a year ago. Went into remission fairly quickly, about 3 months or so and we were able to take her off insulin. Shortly after we noticed a lot of symptoms that she was no liner in remission but figured it was just her new behavioral changes. We took her back to the vet about 3 months ago and they confirmed she was diabetic again. Since then we have been unable to get her insulin regulated. She is in the high 400’s currently. She is in Vetsulin 2 units 2 x day. She is now showing symptoms of low potassium ; head hanging low, lethargic etc. she saw the vet yesterday but she didn’t seem to concerned and said she was just feeling crummy because her blood sugar is high. I am concerned about the low potassium and we bought some supplements that should be here Monday although the vet did not recommend this or anything but we figured could help.

Any suggestions on any of this would be appreciated!

 

[FrostD]

Are you currently testing at home? If not, that's one of the first things I would start doing. I'm pretty new here, but things are so much easier (and cheaper!) now that I test at home.

Can you please start here? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-fdmb-the-basics.130682/

There's some baseline info that would help us greatly... especially food you're feeding, and any test results you may have.

Was she on Vetsulin before going into remission? Has she been at 2U for the past 3 months? Many here will tell you Vetsulin is not an ideal insulin for cats, but I seem to be having some luck with it

 

[Cat Owner]

I’m new here also. Thanks for answering!

She eats Purina One chicken pâté. She was just bumped to 2.5 units yesterday. We do at home testing twice a day and it’s been ranging from high 300’s to high 400’s. She has been on the same food and insulin before and after remission.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Welcome!! What’s your kitty’s name and yours?

That’s great that you’re home testing! We recommend testing before each shot in the am and the pm and also a few times during the day to determine the lowest your cat is going on the insulin. I don’t know much about vetsulin other than it’s fast acting and it was designed primarily for dogs, also called caninsulin for canine. I might consider a different insulin now that she’s fallen out of remission like prozync or Lantus. Cats seem to be do better in those 2. The link Frost posted is great and I want to also give you the one below where you can find instructions on setting up your signature so we have the basic info about your cat and don’t have to keep asking as well as a spreadsheet for the test results that you can share with all of us:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

welcome again!!!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Have you tested for ketones?
If not I would go out and buy an bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and check for the ketones. It is a simple urine test. Follow the directions on the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
With the potassium PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ANY POTASSIUM SUPPLEMENTS WITHOUT A VET ADVICE. It could be very dangerous and you do not know what the dose should be or even if it is potassium that is the cause.
It could be ketones, so test for those.
My advice is for you to either go back to the vet and demand that she do a blood test to see if all is well including Potassium and ketones OR find another vet.
I would do it today, I would not leave a Diabetic kitty that is lethargic and has her head hanging down without seeing a vet asap.
Providing there are no ketones, I think you would be better changing the insulin to something like Lantus.

 

[Cat Owner]

Welcome!! What’s your kitty’s name and yours?

That’s great that you’re home testing! We recommend testing before each shot in the am and the pm and also a few times during the day to determine the lowest your cat is going on the insulin. I don’t know much about vetsulin other than it’s fast acting and it was designed primarily for dogs, also called caninsulin for canine. I might consider a different insulin now that she’s fallen out of remission like prozync or Lantus. Cats seem to be do better in those 2. The link Frost posted is great and I want to also give you the one below where you can find instructions on setting up your signature so we have the basic info about your cat and don’t have to keep asking as well as a spreadsheet for the test results that you can share with all of us:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

welcome again!!!

Her name is Abbey and she is a 12 yr old calico/dsh. I have not head that about vetsulin made for dogs, that’s crazy! My husband did a a curve in her a few weeks ago. But not before he shots (I don’t think at least) I am very concerned about her blood sugar not regulating but very very concerned about the hypokelemia. I thought after she got the hydration hump at the vet we would have seen some improvement. I just hope it doesn’t turn real dangerous and we will see some improvement when the potassium supplements come in,

 

[Cat Owner]

Have you tested for ketones?
If not I would go out and buy an bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and check for the ketones. It is a simple urine test. Follow the directions on the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
With the potassium PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ANY POTASSIUM SUPPLEMENTS WITHOUT A VET ADVICE. It could be very dangerous and you do not know what the dose should be or even if it is potassium that is the cause.
It could be ketones, so test for those.
My advice is for you to either go back to the vet and demand that she do a blood test to see if all is well including Potassium and ketones OR find another vet.
I would do it today, I would not leave a Diabetic kitty that is lethargic and has her head hanging down without seeing a vet asap.
Providing there are no ketones, I think you would be better changing the insulin to something like Lantus.

She was at the vet on Thursday and the vet said she was just feeling crummy because of her blood sugar. I did leave a message for her regarding the potassium yesterday and am waiting to hear back. I will look into the ketones. What will I do if they are high?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Her name is Abbey and she is a 12 yr old calico/dsh. I have not head that about vetsulin made for dogs, that’s crazy! My husband did a a curve in her a few weeks ago. But not before he shots (I don’t think at least) I am very concerned about her blood sugar not regulating but very very concerned about the hypokelemia. I thought after she got the hydration hump at the vet we would have seen some improvement. I just hope it doesn’t turn real dangerous and we will see some improvement when the potassium supplements come in,

It is dangerous to give a cat potassium supplement without a clear direction from a vet. Too much could kill the cat. It is not something to be fiddling with. If you are concerned about the low potassium either go back to your vet and get the test done or go to a new vet but please do not give the potassium on your own.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

She was at the vet on Thursday and the vet said she was just feeling crummy because of her blood sugar. I did leave a message for her regarding the potassium yesterday and am waiting to hear back. I will look into the ketones. What will I do if they are high?

If the ketones are anything else but trace, take her to the vet. You can’t muck around with ketones either. They can turn deadly very quickly.
If they are a trace of ketones you will need to keep monitoring them twice a day until they go.
If the vet doesn’t ring you back this morning, either ring her back or take Abbey to another vet to get the potassium tested....that is my advice.

 

[Cat Owner]

It is dangerous to give a cat potassium supplement without a clear direction from a vet. Too much could kill the cat. It is not something to be fiddling with. If you are concerned about the low potassium either go back to your vet and get the test done or go to a new vet but please do not give the potassium on your own.

Will do, that is my plan.

 

[Cat Owner]

If the ketones are anything else but trace, take her to the vet. You can’t muck around with ketones either. They can turn deadly very quickly.
If they are a trace of ketones you will need to keep monitoring them twice a day until they go.
If the vet doesn’t ring you back this morning, either ring her back or take Abbey to another vet to get the potassium tested....that is my advice.

This same thing happened almost 4 weeks ago and we took her to the vet. They said she was very constipated which was weird as she was there 3 days earlier and not and very dehydrated as she said the lack of poop was taking up her water intake or something along those lines. Point being, she had a lot of testing the past 2 months, everything seems good except the low potassium but she said the insulin will draw out the potassium from her body. She has a very slight elevated kidney function, but said it was very slight and we will keep and eye on it.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

This same thing happened almost 4 weeks ago and we took her to the vet. They said she was very constipated which was weird as she was there 3 days earlier and not and very dehydrated as she said the lack of poop was taking up her water intake or something along those lines. Point being, she had a lot of testing the past 2 months, everything seems good except the low potassium but she said the insulin will draw out the potassium from her body. She has a very slight elevated kidney function, but said it was very slight and we will keep and eye on it.

Has low potassium been mentioned before?
I will tag @Marje and Gracie as she may be able to tell you more.

 

[Cat Owner]

Has low potassium been mentioned before?
I will tag @Marje and Gracie as she may be able to tell you more.

Thanks, I do not plan on giving her any potassium without the vet’s ok. My husband did see a post on here where someone was giving their cat the supplements or recommended it or something and that’s where he got the idea. I think since we have spent so much in Abbey in the past few months the vet is trying to save us some money.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Potassium is a necessary electrolyte that has to be in balance with sodium in order for muscles to contract properly. The danger with giving potassium is that your heart is a muscle. If you give a supplement, you need to be monitoring the blood values to insure that you don't cause a problem with the heart's contractility. Like Bron said, I would not give a potassium supplement without input from your vet. It's also possible that your cat having been given fluids may have temporarily effected the potassium level.

Hypokalemia is also a factor in DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). DKA throws electrolyte levels out of whack. It also causes dehydration. This is something your vet should know and should have tested for ketones. I get concerned about ketones whenever someone describes their cat as "lethargic." Again, like Bron said, getting some Ketostix and testing at home would be helpful if your cat will allow you to stalk her to the litter box.

Do you have a copy of the results of the lab tests?

If you're vet is trying to help out with costs, that's great. I would, however, suggest you consider a switch to either Prozinc or Lantus. The American Animal Hospital Assn. does not recommend Vetsulin for the the treatment of feline diabetes -- it's duration is too short for a a cat's metabolism and it can drop numbers to dangerous levels very quickly. If you're testing only twice a day, I'm assuming at shot time, you may not know how low Abbey's numbers are going. The symptoms you're seeing may be a result of low numbers. You probably need to get a test 2 hours after you've given a shot and another at least a 4 hours in order to insure that your kitty is in safe numbers.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thanks, I do not plan on giving her any potassium without the vet’s ok. My husband did see a post on here where someone was giving their cat the supplements or recommended it or something and that’s where he got the idea. I think since we have spent so much in Abbey in the past few months the vet is trying to save us some money.

If someone was giving potassium supplement on here, it would only have been with the vets supervision. I think a test for the potassium would be money well spent if she is lethargic and hanging her head.

 

[Cat Owner]

Potassium is a necessary electrolyte that has to be in balance with sodium in order for muscles to contract properly. The danger with giving potassium is that your heart is a muscle. If you give a supplement, you need to be monitoring the blood values to insure that you don't cause a problem with the heart's contractility. Like Bron said, I would not give a potassium supplement without input from your vet. It's also possible that your cat having been given fluids may have temporarily effected the potassium level.

Hypokalemia is also a factor in DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). DKA throws electrolyte levels out of whack. It also causes dehydration. This is something your vet should know and should have tested for ketones. I get concerned about ketones whenever someone describes their cat as "lethargic." Again, like Bron said, getting some Ketostix and testing at home would be helpful if your cat will allow you to stalk her to the litter box.

Do you have a copy of the results of the lab tests?

If you're vet is trying to help out with costs, that's great. I would, however, suggest you consider a switch to either Prozinc or Lantus. The American Animal Hospital Assn. does not recommend Vetsulin for the the treatment of feline diabetes -- it's duration is too short for a a cat's metabolism and it can drop numbers to dangerous levels very quickly. If you're testing only twice a day, I'm assuming at shot time, you may not know how low Abbey's numbers are going. The symptoms you're seeing may be a result of low numbers. You probably need to get a test 2 hours after you've given a shot and another at least a 4 hours in order to insure that your kitty is in safe numbers.

My husband tests her 4 hours after she eats, per the vet recommendation. Her blood sugar has never been low even during the curve. Currently though is is in the high 300’s to low 400’s depending on the test time. Sometimes it’s high 400’a. I too thought for sure she was dehydrated as these are the same symptoms she was showing when she was dehydrated a few weeks ago, but the vet said if she is peeing and pooping fine and drinking water she doesn’t think she is dehydrated.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

To check for dehydration lift the scruff of the neck up.does it snap back or go back slowly.
Feel Abbey’s gums.....are they slippery and wet or are they tacky?
A cat can be drinking fine but still be dehydrated.

Are you testing before every insulin shot?I would highly recommend you do if you are not. It is the only way you will know if it is safe to give the shot.

I am going to give you the link to our spreadsheet. It would be great if you could set it up and put Abbeys blood glucose numbers into it. We can help you get her into better numbers.
Here is the link. If you have any trouble setting it up we will help you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Do you feed Abbey and wait 1/2 hour before giving the insulin? Do you feed her during the cycle as well?

Once things settle down and things are sorted out, I would encourage you to look at swapping to a more suitable insulin for Abbey. Vetsulin is a dog insulin. A much better insulin would be Lantus or Prozinc.

 

[Cat Owner]

To check for dehydration lift the scruff of the neck up.does it snap back or go back slowly.
Feel Abbey’s gums.....are they slippery and wet or are they tacky?
A cat can be drinking fine but still be dehydrated.

Are you testing before every insulin shot?I would highly recommend you do if you are not. It is the only way you will know if it is safe to give the shot.

I am going to give you the link to our spreadsheet. It would be great if you could set it up and put Abbeys blood glucose numbers into it. We can help you get her into better numbers.
Here is the link. If you have any trouble setting it up we will help you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Do you feed Abbey and wait 1/2 hour before giving the insulin? Do you feed her during the cycle as well?

Once things settle down and things are sorted out, I would encourage you to look at swapping to a more suitable insulin for Abbey. Vetsulin is a dog insulin. A much better insulin would be Lantus or Prozinc.

She is given her shot after eating. That’s what the vet said. Does everyone else do it before? I checked her gums the other night when I started noticing this and they felt fine and wet.i will check again. I agree with she could still be dehydrated, but the vet didn’t seem to think so. She drinks a lot, a lot a lot of water. The vet seems to think this is all related to the diabetes and just feeling crummy (her words). Should she have perked your by now with the hydration they gave her? My husband thought they were going to keep her and do all day IV but they just did the hump which I thought was for dogs. Is there anything I can do to help her?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

With vetsulin you should wait 30 minutes after eating and then give insulin

 

[Cat Owner]

With vetsulin you should wait 30 minutes after eating and then give insulin

Thanks, we did it like that today for her evening meal. Usually we give it right after she eats within maybe 5 mins or so.

We gave her some pedialyte so hope this helps perk her up!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Her potassium should be above 4. However, sometimes insulin can cause the uptake of potassium into the cells so the serum level is lower. It’s up to your vet to figure out if it’s that, if she is truly hypokalemic, if her electrolytes are out of balance because she is trending towards DKA (you are testing urine ketones, right? If they are trace or below then it wouldn’t be DKA).