Need a little help

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So the first day you gave Prozinc you drew up 14 units on the U100 syringe and thought it was 1.2 units. That gave him 5.6 units Prozinc.
The second day you drew up 8 units And thought it was 0.4 units in the U-100 syringe and that gave 3.2 units Prozinc
Today you drew up 4 units And thought it was 0.2 units on the U-100 syringe and that gave 1.6 units Prozinc
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
So the first day you gave Prozinc you drew up 14 units on the U100 syringe and thought it was 1.2 units. That gave him 5.6 units Prozinc.
The second day you drew up 8 units And thought it was 0.4 units in the U-100 syringe and that gave 3.2 units Prozinc
Today you drew up 4 units And thought it was 0.2 units on the U-100 syringe and that gave 1.6 units Prozinc
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Now it makes a little sense. A little...
 
I think the best thing to do is get some of the U-100 3/10 ml 30 or 31 gauge 6mm or 8 mm syringes.
They are the same type of syringe as you have now but have a smaller capacity 3/10 ml compared to 1 ml and they have 1/2 unit markings and each line is 1 unit not 2 units like on the 1 ml syringe.

The other option is to get the U40 syringes that go with the Prozinc insulin and no conversion is needed.

However if you use the U100 syringes you can give smaller doses more easily but you must use the conversion Chart.
We can help you with all of that.
For now, I would go and make yourself a cup of :coffee: and sit down.
I’d get some tests in during the cycle say at +2 and +4 to start with to see how he’s going with this dose.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I think the best thing to do is get some of the U-100 3/10 ml 30 or 31 gauge 6mm or 8 mm syringes.
They are the same type of syringe as you have now but have a smaller capacity 3/10 ml compared to 1 ml and they have 1/2 unit markings and each line is 1 unit not 2 units like on the 1 ml syringe.

The other option is to get the U40 syringes that go with the Prozinc insulin and no conversion is needed.

However if you use the U100 syringes you can give smaller doses more easily but you must use the conversion Chart.
We can help you with all of that.
For now, I would go and make yourself a cup of :coffee: and sit down.
I’d get some tests in during the cycle say at +2 and +4 to start with to see how he’s going with this dose.
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I think I'll stick to these ones. I've already been though caninsulin and levemir and now prozinc my head can't really follow :banghead:
I've been sitting down this whole time. Its friday! Cleaning day yay! I'm about to have a freaking migraine over all this crap. It sucks. Big time. I'll test her in a moment so it's +3 and then I'll start my cleaning.
Thank you so much! You've been really helpful!:bighug:
 
Just looking at your SS. Don’t forget the PM cycle as well. It is just as important as the am cycle.
You are only getting half the picture if you only test in the am cycle. Cats often drop lower at night.

Don’t forget to change the doses in the U column of the SS.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Just looking at your SS. Don’t forget the PM cycle as well. It is just as important as the am cycle.
You are only getting half the picture if you only test in the am cycle. Cats often drop lower at night.

Don’t forget to change the doses in the U column of the SS.
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Am I supposed to get up during the night to test?
 
It’s a good idea to get a before bed test in every night, and if that test is lower than the preshot it is a good idea to set the alarm to check that the BG has not dropped low. Cats often drop lower at night.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
It’s a good idea to get a before bed test in every night, and if that test is lower than the preshot it is a good idea to set the alarm to check that the BG has not dropped low. Cats often drop lower at night.
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I already do.
Test before first shot, +6 and before second shot. And in between if I'm nervous or seeing something off. Up at 9, test and shoot at 10, test at 16-17, test and shot at 22, off to bed and over the next day.
 
I think so, but this probably needs a ProZinc person like @Deb & Wink to look over your spreadsheet and think about it. The current 1.6U is not that different from the Caninsulin dose you were transitioning from, so it's kind of starting over on the new insulin. You've gotten some movement (but not too low!) so far on this dose today, so it might not be a bad dose to try for a while.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
I think so, but this probably needs a ProZinc person like @Deb & Wink to look over your spreadsheet and think about it. The current 1.6U is not that different from the Caninsulin dose you were transitioning from, so it's kind of starting over on the new insulin. You've gotten some movement (but not too low!) so far on this dose today, so it might not be a bad dose to try for a while.
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And maybe I can actually give her two shots a day on this dose! Since it's not to low like the other days :D
 
Sasha, you have those 1ml syringes, but they are really too big for measuring small doses of ANY insulin.
Please, go buy some 3/10 cc U100 syringes to use with the U40 Prozinc insulin.
Or buy some U40 syringes to use with this U40 concentration insulin.

Whichever syringes you decide to buy, you need ones with half-unit (1/2 unit) markings on the insulin barrel, so you can measure the in-between doses better. So you can measure the 0.25U dose changes. That is what we use when changing a dose, 0.25U increments.

If you keep using those 1ml U100 syringes, you are going to overdose Mauer. Let's please keep Mauer safe, with the correct syringes.

You need to be consistent with the dose, and that is going to be nearly impossible to do that using the 1ml syringes.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Sasha, you have those 1ml syringes, but they are really too big for measuring small doses of ANY insulin.
Please, go buy some 3/10 cc U100 syringes to use with the U40 Prozinc insulin.
Or buy some U40 syringes to use with this U40 concentration insulin.

Whichever syringes you decide to buy, you need ones with half-unit (1/2 unit) markings on the insulin barrel, so you can measure the in-between doses better. So you can measure the 0.25U dose changes. That is what we use when changing a dose, 0.25U increments.

If you keep using those 1ml U100 syringes, you are going to overdose Mauer. Let's please keep Mauer safe, with the correct syringes.

You need to be consistent with the dose, and that is going to be nearly impossible to do that using the 1ml syringes.
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Is it these ones?
https://www.med24.dk/medicin-og-med...nyler/bd-micro-fine-plus-0-3-ml-u-100-100-stk
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
@Deb & Wink can advice your with the dose as I haven’t used Prozinc.
But when you get the syringes, have a good look at them and note where the 1 unit and 2 unit lines are. If I were you I would post a photo of where you think the dose should be before you give it. Just to be sure you understand the lines.
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I'll do that. Problem is the time difference. I shot 2 hours ago. There isn't anyone awake at this time.
 
I'd actually like to see a slightly reduced dose, since Mauer dropped so low on 5/13/20 AM/morning/daytime cycle.
For now, I would think that Mauer needs 1.25U of Prozinc. I will be giving you the insulin amounts according to the U40 concentration.

That amount will be adjusted as Mauer's insulin needs change in the future.

The conversion for Prozinc using U100 syringes instead of U40 syringes is 2.5 times the U40 dose.
So 1.25 times 2.5 = 3.125U drawn up in the U100 syringe. Let's not try for that precision right now.
Make the dose 3U in the U100 syringe.

I'm being conservative in the dosing recommendation. That is partially due to my thought that Mauer is bouncing right now. When he clears this bounce, he is likely to need less insulin and closer monitoring.
So please get a blood glucose test during the PM/Night/evening cycle at around +2.

You should get at least one more test in every the PM/evening/nighttime cycle. Without that test, you are missing half your data, and it's really hard to see what is happening. Many people are able to get another test before they go to sleep. Please try to do that additional test every PM/evening/nighttime cycle.

"Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles)"

@Bron and Sheba (GA) Using the Prozinc SLGS dosing protocol guidelines here. The protocols are written based on using U40 syringes.
Sticky PROZINC DOSING METHODS

If Mauer's BG level drops below 5 mmol/L (90 mg/dL) at any point in the 12 hour cycle, pre-shot test time or in the middle of the 12 hour dosing cycle, that would be an immediate dose reduction of 0.25U. (0.25 times 2.5 = 0.625U in a U100 syringe).

I'm on the east coast of the US, but have not been able to sign on and answer questions until later in the evening, > 19:00 to 20:00 hours eastern daylight savings time. So when it is 19:00 hours here, it is 01:00 hours the next day in Denmark.

@Ann & Scatcats Please introduce yourself to Sasha and her cat Mauer. Mauer is on Prozinc right now, but has used levemir and caninsulin already in his short journey with feline diabetes. He was diagnosed the beginning of March 2020 and his human mother Sasha is doing her very best to get Mauer feeling better.
 
@SashaV and Mauer, Dav jeg heder Ann og er Halv Dansk og bor i Sverige lige udenfor Göteborg. Jeg har det lit mere en svaert nå da jeg er blevet coronasyg og det hele er mer en sinsygt for oss i Sverige. Vi er paa samme tid dog og du har fået god hjaelpe her allereden.
Og saa har du mange gode blod glucose i de blå nummer allereden. Jeg er dog mer vant til at arbejde her paa engelsk og vi skall helst anvende det da vi har peer review og fag medicinsk og saa alle andre, og det er mange, kan hjaelpe.

Hvor gammel er Mauer?

Du er i hvertfald paa ret vej.
 
Ann & Scatcats said:
@SashaV and Mauer, Dav jeg heder Ann og er Halv Dansk og bor i Sverige lige udenfor Göteborg. Jeg har det lit mere en svaert nå da jeg er blevet coronasyg og det hele er mer en sinsygt for oss i Sverige. Vi er paa samme tid dog og du har fået god hjaelpe her allereden.
Og saa har du mange gode blod glucose i de blå nummer allereden. Jeg er dog mer vant til at arbejde her paa engelsk og vi skall helst anvende det da vi har peer review og fag medicinsk og saa alle andre, og det er mange, kan hjaelpe.

Hvor gammel er Mauer?

Du er i hvertfald paa ret vej.
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Hej Ann
Mauer er snart 11.
Er du ramt af covid? Hold da op! Håber du kommer ud på den anden side uden mén :bighug:
Jeg er så ked af at se hvor svært I har det Sverige :( det er bare slet ikke okay!
For min skyld kan vi sagtens fortsætte på engelsk, jeg er vist ved at være ret godt med :nailbiting:
Dit dansk er super flot! Ikke det jeg er vant til fra en svensker :D
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Sasha,
When is your next dose due? Did you get any tests in during the cycle?
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1 hour! My syringes has arrived!
Not during the PM cycle. I'm usually not a morning person so getting up this early is very new to me, so to be sure I don't sleep in I go to bed right after the PM shot. Yes my life has changed dramatically since this diagnosis :banghead:
Normally I'd be on US time.
 
SashaV said:
1 hour! My syringes has arrived!
Not during the PM cycle. I'm usually not a morning person so getting up this early is very new to me, so to be sure I don't sleep in I go to bed right after the PM shot. Yes my life has changed dramatically since this diagnosis :banghead:
Normally I'd be on US time.
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Please try and get at least one test in every cycle as we need the database to help Mauer.
So have you read what Deb said about the dose above?
She wants you to draw up 3 units of Prozinc on the new u100 syringes you have just got. That will be less than 1.25 units of Prozinc that you need to write in the units column of the SS. Write in 1.2 please.
When you are ready, can you draw up the insulin and take a photo of the syringe please.?
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Please try and get at least one test in every cycle as we need the database to help Mauer.
So have you read what Deb said about the dose above?
She wants you to draw up 3 units of Prozinc on the new u100 syringes you have just got. That will be less than 1.25 units of Prozinc that you need to write in the units column of the SS. Write in 1.2 please.
When you are ready, can you draw up the insulin and take a photo of the syringe please.?
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Is this right?
 

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Yes you have drawn it up correctly.:)
Try and get a +2 and a +4 at least this cycle if you can and if the BG is still dropping, take one at +5 or 6.
Will you be offering small snacks during the first half of the cycle?
 
SashaV said:
Took her BG, now feeding raw and a half hour to her shot. Is it wrong to feed her before?
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The routine is test, feed then shoot in that order. So you are correct.
If you were going to stall because the BG was too low, you would not feed, but wait until you tested again to see if the BG was rising without food.
But today the BG is fine.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes you have drawn it up correctly.:)
Try and get a +2 and a +4 at least this cycle if you can and if the BG is still dropping, take one at +5 or 6.
Will you be offering small snacks during the first half of the cycle?
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Yay I got something right!
Sure. She got one after testing. And she's getting fresh canned food after her shot.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
The routine is test, feed then shoot in that order. So you are correct.
If you were going to stall because the BG was too low, you would not feed, but wait until you tested again to see if the BG was rising without food.
But today the BG is fine.
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Problem is, she vomits when she gets to hungry. So before it becomes nausea I feed her. If she holds her number at +2 and +4 when do I test next? Before PM shot?
 
SashaV said:
Problem is, she vomits when she gets to hungry. So before it becomes nausea I feed her. If she holds her number at +2 and +4 when do I test next? Before PM shot?
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If she isn't continuing to drop, you can next test at PMPS.
You could give her a small snack at +9 each cycle so her tummy isn't empty too long
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If she isn't continuing to drop, you can next test at PMPS.
You could give her a small snack at +9 each cycle so her tummy isn't empty too long
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That won't be enough. She gets 130 grams of raw during the day and canned food. And 25-50 grams raw for night. Free access to canned and dry. She's like really hungry at the moment
 
SashaV said:
That won't be enough. She gets 130 grams of raw during the day and canned food. And 25-50 grams raw for night. Free access to canned and dry. She's like really hungry at the moment
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I didn't mean only feed her at +9. I meant you could also give her a small snack at +9 on top of what she normally gets if you think her tummy will be empty and she might vomit.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I didn't mean only feed her at +9. I meant you could also give her a small snack at +9 on top of what she normally gets if you think her tummy will be empty and she might vomit.
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Aaaah :D
Its It's much easier with these syringes. One big line is one unit and small ones are 0.25 right? And the needle is half the size
 
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