4/15 - New member Ollie

[Sugarbun]

Hello everybody, my name is Michele and my cat Ollie (aka Sugarbun) was diagnosed at the end of March. He is 8 years old. His BG and fructosamine were elevated and he also had results indicating an infection. We were trying diet first because his vet didn't want to start insulin while he was on the antibiotic and until his BG was above 300. He has lost some weight despite eating and I'm worried about him.

His BG numbers so far (all tests at home on Relion Prime unless otherwise noted):
3/20 - 275 (blood test at vet & elevated fructosamine), non-fasting
3/26 - 225, fasting
3/27 - 218 (at vet using pet meter), non-fasting
4/4 - 111, non-fasting
4/11 - 313, 232 half an hour later (issues with testing and think initial reading was tissue fluid), fasting
4/12 - 399, 157 a few minutes later (same issues with fluid instead of blood), fasting
4/13 - 223, fasting
4/15 - 248, fasting

I was having some issues with home testing, not getting blood and only getting clearish fluid, but I've gotten good drops of blood the last 2 times. He is currently eating Weruva Chicken Frick A Zee (2% carbs), a little Young Again Zero Mature sprinkled on top and pure chicken freeze-dried treats or PureBites 100% chicken in water. (I'm aware of the issue with dry food). I changed his diet a little over 2 weeks ago (previously he was eating Wellness Gravies with 11% carbs and having junky treats). He seemed to be doing well but recently he is having loose stool and even had some blood today. He is also drinking more now and just not acting the same, so he is going to the vet tomorrow to be checked out. I'm afraid he may have an infection again. He and his brother and sister have always been very secretive about using the litter box, they all hold it in all day until night and go then. I've tried to catch him in the act to test his urine with strips but I haven't been able to yet.

I just wanted to make an introduction post before we start insulin, hopefully we're not at that point yet but I hate waiting around in limbo for his BG to just get worse while not doing anything to help. Any advice appreciated!

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

WELCOME to FDMB! the best site on the planet to help you help adorable Ollie!
It DOES sound like the sooner you get Ollie on insulin the better. His numbers are not too terribly high and CONGRATS! on the testing! woo hooo Glad your vet in on board with that. So many arent. Its refreshing to hear yours is!
ANYWAY take a minuet to stroll through this site and all the different forums available!
and again WELCOME
Hang on for answers to your questions there will be more people chiming in ok?
jeanne

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Hi

Hello everybody, my name is Michele and my cat Ollie (aka Sugarbun) was diagnosed at the end of March. He is 8 years old. His BG and fructosamine were elevated and he also had results indicating an infection. We were trying diet first because his vet didn't want to start insulin while he was on the antibiotic and until his BG was above 300. He has lost some weight despite eating and I'm worried about him.

His BG numbers so far (all tests at home on Relion Prime unless otherwise noted):
3/20 - 275 (blood test at vet & elevated fructosamine), non-fasting
3/26 - 225, fasting
3/27 - 218 (at vet using pet meter), non-fasting
4/4 - 111, non-fasting
4/11 - 313, 232 half an hour later (issues with testing and think initial reading was tissue fluid), fasting
4/12 - 399, 157 a few minutes later (same issues with fluid instead of blood), fasting
4/13 - 223, fasting
4/15 - 248, fasting

I was having some issues with home testing, not getting blood and only getting clearish fluid, but I've gotten good drops of blood the last 2 times. He is currently eating Weruva Chicken Frick A Zee (2% carbs), a little Young Again Zero Mature sprinkled on top and pure chicken freeze-dried treats or PureBites 100% chicken in water. (I'm aware of the issue with dry food). I changed his diet a little over 2 weeks ago (previously he was eating Wellness Gravies with 11% carbs and having junky treats). He seemed to be doing well but recently he is having loose stool and even had some blood today. He is also drinking more now and just not acting the same, so he is going to the vet tomorrow to be checked out. I'm afraid he may have an infection again. He and his brother and sister have always been very secretive about using the litter box, they all hold it in all day until night and go then. I've tried to catch him in the act to test his urine with strips but I haven't been able to yet.

I just wanted to make an introduction post before we start insulin, hopefully we're not at that point yet but I hate waiting around in limbo for his BG to just get worse while not doing anything to help. Any advice appreciated!

Hi Michele and welcome!

I’ll let more experienced members chime in, but it will be helpful to get started on a spreadsheet that all members can see. Check out the link to mine in my signature below. And also read this when you’ve got a second:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

The link above explains all the things members are looking for so they have all the info on your cat to be able to help you

Minnie lost a lot of weigh at first too so don’t despair just yet because once Ollie is regulated he’ll gain weigh again. She also had lose stool and diarrhea and again, that’s been regulated now with probiotics. I’ll find the link to it on Amazon an post but a lot of members here use it and recommend it and it’s worked wonders. There’s also an antibiotic you can ask your vet about that helps I forget the name but I’ll find it and post again in a second. Where are you drawing blood from the ear? Again, folks here will be super helpful in giving you tips about that like warming up the ear first - I find that makes a huge difference with getting the blood easily as opposed to squeezing the spot and still not getting much out at all.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Here’s the pic of both. The antibiotic works faster if the stool situation is really bad and the S Boulardii probiotic takes a few weeks to work in the system

link to the probiotic on Amazon below:
Jarrow Formulas, Saccharomyces... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NXPJ2TQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

WELCOME to FDMB! the best site on the planet to help you help adorable Ollie!
It DOES sound like the sooner you get Ollie on insulin the better. His numbers are not too terribly high and CONGRATS! on the testing! woo hooo Glad your vet in on board with that. So many arent. Its refreshing to hear yours is!
ANYWAY take a minuet to stroll through this site and all the different forums available!
and again WELCOME
Hang on for answers to your questions there will be more people chiming in ok?
jeanne

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Hello everybody, my name is Michele and my cat Ollie (aka Sugarbun) was diagnosed at the end of March. He is 8 years old. His BG and fructosamine were elevated and he also had results indicating an infection. We were trying diet first because his vet didn't want to start insulin while he was on the antibiotic and until his BG was above 300. He has lost some weight despite eating and I'm worried about him.

His BG numbers so far (all tests at home on Relion Prime unless otherwise noted):
3/20 - 275 (blood test at vet & elevated fructosamine), non-fasting
3/26 - 225, fasting
3/27 - 218 (at vet using pet meter), non-fasting
4/4 - 111, non-fasting
4/11 - 313, 232 half an hour later (issues with testing and think initial reading was tissue fluid), fasting
4/12 - 399, 157 a few minutes later (same issues with fluid instead of blood), fasting
4/13 - 223, fasting
4/15 - 248, fasting

I was having some issues with home testing, not getting blood and only getting clearish fluid, but I've gotten good drops of blood the last 2 times. He is currently eating Weruva Chicken Frick A Zee (2% carbs), a little Young Again Zero Mature sprinkled on top and pure chicken freeze-dried treats or PureBites 100% chicken in water. (I'm aware of the issue with dry food). I changed his diet a little over 2 weeks ago (previously he was eating Wellness Gravies with 11% carbs and having junky treats). He seemed to be doing well but recently he is having loose stool and even had some blood today. He is also drinking more now and just not acting the same, so he is going to the vet tomorrow to be checked out. I'm afraid he may have an infection again. He and his brother and sister have always been very secretive about using the litter box, they all hold it in all day until night and go then. I've tried to catch him in the act to test his urine with strips but I haven't been able to yet.

I just wanted to make an introduction post before we start insulin, hopefully we're not at that point yet but I hate waiting around in limbo for his BG to just get worse while not doing anything to help. Any advice appreciated!

As for testing, @Deb & Wink posted this for me when I first started doing it at home and I found it super helpful!

Lancet goes in at an angle to the ear, bevel side up.
Lancet device is placed flat against the ear, outer edge.
Both need some sort of firm backing on the opposite side of the ear to press against. (Do not recommend only your finger). Lots of people use a small piece of tissue or a cotton ball to back up the poke site.

Aim for the 'sweet spot'.

Testing
We all know the basics:

• Warm the ear with a rice sock or a warm washcloth wrapped in a plastic bag.

• Either freehand or use a lancing device; new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed; then progress to a 31g or 33g which are finer.

• Be sure to poke in the "sweet spot" and not the major vein that runs along the length of the ear. Poking the vein will not only hurt, but will result in a lot of blood. The sweet spot is on the edge of the ear.

But did you also know there is a particular way for the lancet to be used? It has one side that is beveled so the sharpest part goes in first, if used correctly.

Enjoy!

 

[Sugarbun]

Thank you very much for the replies and advice. His blood sugar was 201 at the vet and I had another reading of 159 when he was not fasting, so it looks like no insulin for now. He did lose another quarter of a pound.

His blood work was good except for slightly elevated neutrophils. He was put on flagyl for the diarrhea. The thing is, he only had loose stools and then one day of diarrhea before he was on flagyl. After 3 days of flagyl, he started having bad diarrhea and last night had blood on him again. I've been giving him Proviable probiotics, but I will try the ones suggested above. The vet suggested we try the prescription diabetic food to calm his stomach down. Is that a good idea? He wasn't having a TON of carbs before (wet food was 10.9% carbs, plus Temptations treats). So could the switch to 2% carbs wet food and 0% carb treats be causing this diarrhea? Will the prescription food help (I don't think so but I'd like your opinions)? I'd rather just give him his old food for a few days to see if it helps, although I don't know. He has been eating his new food for over 2 weeks before the loose stool/diarrhea started so I don't know if that's the cause. The vet also suggested an xray or ultrasound, which seems extreme to me at this point but I'll do if necessary.

Any advice very much appreciated.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Thank you very much for the replies and advice. His blood sugar was 201 at the vet and I had another reading of 159 when he was not fasting, so it looks like no insulin for now. He did lose another quarter of a pound.

His blood work was good except for slightly elevated neutrophils. He was put on flagyl for the diarrhea. The thing is, he only had loose stools and then one day of diarrhea before he was on flagyl. After 3 days of flagyl, he started having bad diarrhea and last night had blood on him again. I've been giving him Proviable probiotics, but I will try the ones suggested above. The vet suggested we try the prescription diabetic food to calm his stomach down. Is that a good idea? He wasn't having a TON of carbs before (wet food was 10.9% carbs, plus Temptations treats). So could the switch to 2% carbs wet food and 0% carb treats be causing this diarrhea? Will the prescription food help (I don't think so but I'd like your opinions)? I'd rather just give him his old food for a few days to see if it helps, although I don't know. He has been eating his new food for over 2 weeks before the loose stool/diarrhea started so I don't know if that's the cause. The vet also suggested an xray or ultrasound, which seems extreme to me at this point but I'll do if necessary.

Any advice very much appreciated.

hi there!

can you set up your signature with info for folks here to easily see? I’m tagging a few because I don’t have all the answers. What insulin is he on again?

Thanks! @Deb & Wink @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Wendy&Neko @Chris & China (GA)

Am I missing anyone?

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

WELCOME to FDMB! the best site on the planet to help you help adorable Ollie!
It DOES sound like the sooner you get Ollie on insulin the better. His numbers are not too terribly high and CONGRATS! on the testing! woo hooo Glad your vet in on board with that. So many arent. Its refreshing to hear yours is!
ANYWAY take a minuet to stroll through this site and all the different forums available!
and again WELCOME
Hang on for answers to your questions there will be more people chiming in ok?
jeanne

I couldn’t tag you... odd

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

not surprised i tagged someone earlier and now? NUTHIN

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Prescription diabetic food is fairly high in carbs, and it's not particularly designed to "calm the stomach". Have tried not feeding the Young Again? We've heard some reports of cats have bad GI reactions to it. Which Wellness flavours were you feeding before? Another possibility is a protein allergy.

If there are GI issues (vomiting, diarrhea), then an ultrasound is typically the next step. One other diagnostic is to get a GI blood panel done. That tests for things like B12 and folate and helps determine if there is an absorption problem. But the ultrasound will tell more.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Prescription diabetic food is fairly high in carbs, and it's not particularly designed to "calm the stomach". Have tried not feeding the Young Again? We've heard some reports of cats have bad GI reactions to it. Which Wellness flavours were you feeding before? Another possibility is a protein allergy.

If there are GI issues (vomiting, diarrhea), then an ultrasound is typically the next step. One other diagnostic is to get a GI blood panel done. That tests for things like B12 and folate and helps determine if there is an absorption problem. But the ultrasound will tell more.

Yes, I had to get an ultrasound done for Minnie to figure out if she had pancreatitis or IBD because she also had a lot of nausea/vomiting and diarrhea he. Also did the pancreatitis test, forget the name, and it came back negative so the internal medicine vet diagnosed her with IBD. She’s on ondansetron to control the nausea and vomiting but most vets try Cerenia first only it didn’t work for Minnie. Has your vet mentioned either? I also give her aloe Vera juice which is natural and helps settle the stomach, but you can’t give them the human kind. It’s has be distilled and made from the leaves only. This is the one I use. I mix 1/4 teaspoon with food twice a day as it’s flavorless and odorless. I wouldn’t try anything though till you get the diarrhea controlled. If you think flagyl made it worse, did you ask your vet about metronidazole?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

As for what goes in the signature, there is some information in this post on How You Can Help Us Help You.

FYI, you can't diagnose IBD just with an ultrasound. To differentiate it from small cell lymphoma,you need a endoscopy or surgical biopsy. Don't let the lymphoma word scare you, SCL is treatable and the majority of cats go into remission with the right treatment. Which is different from the treatment for IBD - which means a novel protein diet. However, food allergies are also a problem that can be sorted out with some food experiments first. It just means carefully reading the ingredients on the cans and seeing what proteins your cat is getting.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

As for what goes in the signature, there is some information in this post on How You Can Help Us Help You.

FYI, you can't diagnose IBD just with an ultrasound. To differentiate it from small cell lymphoma,you need a endoscopy or surgical biopsy. Don't let the lymphoma word scare you, SCL is treatable and the majority of cats go into remission with the right treatment. Which is different from the treatment for IBD - which means a novel protein diet. However, food allergies are also a problem that can be sorted out with some food experiments first. It just means carefully reading the ingredients on the cans and seeing what proteins your cat is getting.

Thanks Wendy. I believe I had posted that link above but was waiting for more people to chime in as her initial post was about the BG levels and home testing. she may need help setting up a spreadsheet as well. Who does that again?
Thanks!

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

@Chris&China

well #*%@ tags quit working grrrrrrrr

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

@Chris&China

well #*%@ tags quit working grrrrrrrr

You’re a hot mess lol!!!

@Chris & China (GA)

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

tell me about it!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

tell me about it!

I feel like your sidekick

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

@Sugarbun ...I'd be happy to set up a spreadsheet for you if you like. Just click on my name and choose "start a conversation" so I can get some information

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Hello everybody, my name is Michele and my cat Ollie (aka Sugarbun) was diagnosed at the end of March. He is 8 years old. His BG and fructosamine were elevated and he also had results indicating an infection. We were trying diet first because his vet didn't want to start insulin while he was on the antibiotic and until his BG was above 300. He has lost some weight despite eating and I'm worried about him.

His BG numbers so far (all tests at home on Relion Prime unless otherwise noted):
3/20 - 275 (blood test at vet & elevated fructosamine), non-fasting
3/26 - 225, fasting
3/27 - 218 (at vet using pet meter), non-fasting
4/4 - 111, non-fasting
4/11 - 313, 232 half an hour later (issues with testing and think initial reading was tissue fluid), fasting
4/12 - 399, 157 a few minutes later (same issues with fluid instead of blood), fasting
4/13 - 223, fasting
4/15 - 248, fasting

I was having some issues with home testing, not getting blood and only getting clearish fluid, but I've gotten good drops of blood the last 2 times. He is currently eating Weruva Chicken Frick A Zee (2% carbs), a little Young Again Zero Mature sprinkled on top and pure chicken freeze-dried treats or PureBites 100% chicken in water. (I'm aware of the issue with dry food). I changed his diet a little over 2 weeks ago (previously he was eating Wellness Gravies with 11% carbs and having junky treats). He seemed to be doing well but recently he is having loose stool and even had some blood today. He is also drinking more now and just not acting the same, so he is going to the vet tomorrow to be checked out. I'm afraid he may have an infection again. He and his brother and sister have always been very secretive about using the litter box, they all hold it in all day until night and go then. I've tried to catch him in the act to test his urine with strips but I haven't been able to yet.

I just wanted to make an introduction post before we start insulin, hopefully we're not at that point yet but I hate waiting around in limbo for his BG to just get worse while not doing anything to help. Any advice appreciated!

Anyone has any thoughts on why she’d be getting clear fluid when testing instead of blood? Does it have to do with location of the test? I’ve always only used the ear... thanks!

 

[Deb & Wink]

If you are milking the ear to get the blood drop to form, stop and you should not get clear fluid anymore.

 

[Sugarbun]

I updated my signature and made a spreadsheet, although he is not on insulin so I made a note next to each BG reading indicating when it was taken in relation to him eating. The vet suggested taking the BG reading only once a week, but I know I should be doing it more often just to keep an eye on things. I'm going to start doing it at least every other day.

I decided to switch him from the 2% carbs Weruva Chicken shreds to a 4% carbs pate my other cat eats (Merrick LID turkey). I also added in the probiotic suggested and his diarrhea stopped immediately. I personally think the Weruva was a little too oily for him, but who knows. The diarrhea only lasted a few days so I didn't think it was anything very serious.

But we are still kind of in limbo now, his BG isn't high enough for insulin but it still isn't in the normal range, so I don't know if there's anything I can do but just wait around for his levels to get worse. It also seems weird his BG is always higher BEFORE he eats in the morning, and goes down after he eats?!?

Here’s the pic of both. The antibiotic works faster if the stool situation is really bad and the S Boulardii probiotic takes a few weeks to work in the system
link to the probiotic on Amazon below:
Jarrow Formulas, Saccharomyces... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NXPJ2TQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Thank you very much for this suggestion! I was able to get the probiotic at Vitamin World the same day and it worked for Ollie!

If you are milking the ear to get the blood drop to form, stop and you should not get clear fluid anymore.

I'm sure that was what the issue was. I wasn't putting the lancet in enough, so I had to milk the ear. Someone on Facebook suggested I was getting tissue fluid and that's what the fluid was.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

It also seems weird his BG is always higher BEFORE he eats in the morning, and goes down after he eats?!?

Not really weird, it means his pancreas is still at least partially working. Food causes the pancreas to kick in and produce some insulin.

Good to hear he's cleared up!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I updated my signature and made a spreadsheet, although he is not on insulin so I made a note next to each BG reading indicating when it was taken in relation to him eating. The vet suggested taking the BG reading only once a week, but I know I should be doing it more often just to keep an eye on things. I'm going to start doing it at least every other day.

I decided to switch him from the 2% carbs Weruva Chicken shreds to a 4% carbs pate my other cat eats (Merrick LID turkey). I also added in the probiotic suggested and his diarrhea stopped immediately. I personally think the Weruva was a little too oily for him, but who knows. The diarrhea only lasted a few days so I didn't think it was anything very serious.

But we are still kind of in limbo now, his BG isn't high enough for insulin but it still isn't in the normal range, so I don't know if there's anything I can do but just wait around for his levels to get worse. It also seems weird his BG is always higher BEFORE he eats in the morning, and goes down after he eats?!?


Thank you very much for this suggestion! I was able to get the probiotic at Vitamin World the same day and it worked for Ollie!


I'm sure that was what the issue was. I wasn't putting the lancet in enough, so I had to milk the ear. Someone on Facebook suggested I was getting tissue fluid and that's what the fluid was.

So happy to hear the probiotic worked! And not needing insulin is a god thing so great news all around! Keep us posted

 

[Deb & Wink]

But we are still kind of in limbo now, his BG isn't high enough for insulin but it still isn't in the normal range, so I don't know if there's anything I can do but just wait around for his levels to get worse.

Blood glucose reading "pre-shot" tests in the 200+ mg/dL range ARE high enough for insulin. Maybe not much insulin, but it is possible to give very tiny doses, such as 0.25U or 0.1U or even 1 drop of insulin.

To get a better assessment of what is going on, you should test first thing in the morning with no food for 2 hours before, then 3-4 hours later after you have fed Sugarbun (aka Ollie). That will give you an idea of what the BG level was before you fed him, and then again after the food has been digested and gotten into the bloodstream.

When the pancreas is working, the +3 to +4 hour test BG level should be lower than the first fasting test during the 12 hour time period.

You might want to think about testing in the evening also now and then. "Pre-shot" tests are normally 12 hours apart. I realize you are not giving Sugarbun insulin, but this testing 12 hours apart, would be what we would do for a cat on an OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice) trial.