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Somecatperson

Somecatperson

Member Since 2020
Hi,

Can't get the calculator to work on my phone. Does anyone know the carb content of Iams chicken?

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...99C9FF6nv00wq6ccg-fOvns7WfRtfgZEaAjAvEALw_wcB

Trying to work out how much better porta 21 grain free would be (10.8% from carbs apparently). Also, how would this be for a cat with UTI sensitivity? Would likely switch them all to this, but one cat eats royal canin Urinary S/O.

I know wet food is more ideal but looking too expensive. Porta 21 isn't too much more than the Iams. Cat not diagnosed or anything yet (Just concerned about the 1, recently drinking quite a bit more than usual, regular happy self otherwise) so just getting as much info as possible.
 
Hi

Sorry I don't really know the carb content of the dry food you mentioned, and it appears there is some information missing from the table they present so it's hard to make the math but if it really is 10.8% that would be a bit high for a diabetic cat.

What is the problem with your cat that is on royal canin urinary? For cats with UTI or urinary problems is always better to give them wet food
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Hi

Sorry I don't really know the carb content of the dry food you mentioned, and it appears there is some information missing from the table they present so it's hard to make the math but if it really is 10.8% that would be a bit high for a diabetic cat.

What is the problem with your cat that is on royal canin urinary? For cats with UTI or urinary problems is always better to give them wet food
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Can't find it right now, but the Porta was the only recommended dry kibble due to its carb %. I was wondering how much better that is than the Iams they are on now. Might have been a thread on this site, not sure. Had info on BG testing, insulin etc.

It's another male cat that has had a few UTI problems in the past, needing trips to the vet. Not the one I'm concerned about at the moment. Touch wood, seems fine these days on the urinary SO stuff. Also occasionally feed him wet food with some Yurilieve. Felix AGAIL, which I've since read is poor due to its sugar content?
 
What is your goal in feeding this food to your cat? Is your cat diabetic, or are you trying to find out something else? Food that both cats can eat? Other medical issues that need to be addressed? What exactly do you need to find out?

Think she found that Porta 21 dry food on the UK food chart. UK Cat Food List

Are you from the UK or somewhere in Europe somecatperson?

Iams makes a wide variety of dry cat foods. This is the one in your link:
IAMS for Vitality Adult Fresh Chicken Dry Cat Food

Here are the ingredients. Ingredients:
Dried chicken and turkey (40%) [chicken 24%, a natural source of taurine], maize, sorghum, pork fat, fresh chicken (4.1%), dried sugar beet pulp (1.7%), chicken stock, fructooligosaccharides (0.69%), potassium chloride, fish oil, brewer's yeast. The ingredients highlighted in red are the ones that contain carbohydrates. Not looking promising, but below I've included the link to the thread that has the real calculation in it.

Did not see a moisture content on the website you linked, so there is no way to calculate based on the information you have. Found another website that has that Iams food listed. It's Iams UK website.
Tried this site. http://www.iams.co.uk/products/cat-...adult-cat-food-with-chicken?bvstate=pg:4/ct:r

Nope, that one did not list water or moisture content either. Even dry food has some water content. Usually 10%.

At least a few of the Iams foods on the US Iams website list 10% moisture content. https://www.iams.com/cat-food/proactive-health-lively-senior-chicken-cat-food Different ingredients between the 2 countries.

Rough calculation based on the Guaranteed Analysis min/max values and using 10% as moisture content gives 32% wet matter basis carbs. 36% dry matter basis carbs.

This is the real calculation you need to use to figure out the carb content.
Cats with urinary issues often do better on a canned food diet. The extra water helps to flush out the urinary tract system.
Peeing more could be lots of things. UTI, hyperthyroidism, kidney issues, etc.

Hope that helps a little bit.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm from the UK.

I just suspect diabetes at the moment really. Will see a vet soon. Regardless, looking more at low carb for weight loss (And I guess diabetes if that's what it turns out to be). I have a number for the porta, but nothing on the Iams I currently use. Thanks for that info. 36% vs 10 is quite the difference.

If you have any wet food recommendations by the way I'd love to hear them. Checked around but they're all a lot more expensive than dry. The 10kg bag in my OP will last over a month, which is great at £24.99.
 
Unfortunately, almost all dry foods are very high calories from carb. To make them, they all rely on things like corn, wheat, sorghum, potatoes, tapioca, peas, beans, etc, to give them that dry consistency. There are only a couple dry foods that have lower carb content, Wysong Epigen 90 and Dr. Elseys. I don't know if either is available in the UK.

This is why most members here feed either a canned food dirt or a raw diet.

There's a great UK food list here. Your looking for calories from carbs under 10%, calories from protein approaching 50%, and most folks suggest keeping phosphorous low, as that helps with urinary issues.
 
Somecatperson said:
looking more at low carb for weight loss
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Canned foods are less calorie dense, as Juls said. Portion control is also important for weight loss.

Many diabetic cats lose weight before diagnosis. That symptom, plus the excess water intake, the resulting large clumps of urine in the litter tray are often what prompts a cat owner to take their cat to the vet clinic in the first place.

Steroid use can also cause transient diabetes. It that case, if the steroid use is recent, there might not have been much of a weight loss for the cat yet.

No I don't think the Dr. Elsey's or the Wysong Epigen 90 are available outside the US. Sometimes, you need to consider the increased cost of veterinary care because of the issues that a dry food diet can cause. If you think about it in those terms, the cost of wet canned food may not seem so high.

Meat costs more than ingredients like grains, peas and potatoes. It's why good quality canned or pouches of cat food cost more. Since you have a cat with urinary tract issues (male) the dry food is not going to contain the water that he needs to flush the extra minerals out of his system.

What kind of urinary tract problem has this other male cat had? You said UTI sensitivity but that can be many things. Partial urinary tract blockage? Crystals (calcium or struvite)? Kidney stones? Frequent urinary tract infections? Something else?

How many cats do you have? You mentioned at least 2, but it sounds like there may be more in your clowder.
It can be tricky to find a food that will meet the dietary needs of a diabetic cat and a cat with urinary tract issues.
The thread (post) you mentioned may be this one:
UK Diabetic Cat Food Info (includes some supplies)

p.s. Would you share your first name with us please?

Tagging a couple of people that are members here on the message board and live in the UK. They may be able to give you a better idea of canned/wet cat food costs in the UK. These are the UK folks I know.
@Elizabeth and Bertie is the one that put together that UK food chart
@Kate & Toby
@Diana&Tom
@Georgiana & Perlutz
 
Juls and Billy said:
Unfortunately, almost all dry foods are very high calories from carb. To make them, they all rely on things like corn, wheat, sorghum, potatoes, tapioca, peas, beans, etc, to give them that dry consistency. There are only a couple dry foods that have lower carb content, Wysong Epigen 90 and Dr. Elseys. I don't know if either is available in the UK.

This is why most members here feed either a canned food dirt or a raw diet.

There's a great UK food list here. Your looking for calories from carbs under 10%, calories from protein approaching 50%, and most folks suggest keeping phosphorous low, as that helps with urinary issues.
Click to expand...

Will definitely go for wet food if I can find anything affordable. I know it'll be more the dry kibble, but some of the recommended ones would cost 10x more a month.


Deb & Wink said:
Canned foods are less calorie dense, as Juls said. Portion control is also important for weight loss.

Many diabetic cats lose weight before diagnosis. That symptom, plus the excess water intake, the resulting large clumps of urine in the litter tray are often what prompts a cat owner to take their cat to the vet clinic in the first place.

Steroid use can also cause transient diabetes. It that case, if the steroid use is recent, there might not have been much of a weight loss for the cat yet.

No I don't think the Dr. Elsey's or the Wysong Epigen 90 are available outside the US. Sometimes, you need to consider the increased cost of veterinary care because of the issues that a dry food diet can cause. If you think about it in those terms, the cost of wet canned food may not seem so high.

Meat costs more than ingredients like grains, peas and potatoes. It's why good quality canned or pouches of cat food cost more. Since you have a cat with urinary tract issues (male) the dry food is not going to contain the water that he needs to flush the extra minerals out of his system.

What kind of urinary tract problem has this other male cat had? You said UTI sensitivity but that can be many things. Partial urinary tract blockage? Crystals (calcium or struvite)? Kidney stones? Frequent urinary tract infections? Something else?

How many cats do you have? You mentioned at least 2, but it sounds like there may be more in your clowder.
It can be tricky to find a food that will meet the dietary needs of a diabetic cat and a cat with urinary tract issues.
The thread (post) you mentioned may be this one:
UK Diabetic Cat Food Info (includes some supplies)

p.s. Would you share your first name with us please?

Tagging a couple of people that are members here on the message board and live in the UK. They may be able to give you a better idea of canned/wet cat food costs in the UK. These are the UK folks I know.
@Elizabeth and Bertie is the one that put together that UK food chart
@Kate & Toby
@Diana&Tom
@Georgiana & Perlutz
Click to expand...

Crystals. Frequent trips to the box with little urine. Been a while since the last vet trip (Been a few times) so I'm hoping he's over it now. I keep a close eye on him. Yurilieve + urinary s/o food and occassional wet food seems to keep it in check.
 
If you suspect diabetes do take your cat to the vet soon so you can get his/her opinion. They will probably run a fructosamine test that gives an indication of blood glucose over a two or three week period. A spot check at the vet would give an immediate result of bg at that time but is not always reliable due to vet stress. If the dx is diabetes you'll probably be advised to start insulin, but there is the option of trying a low-carb diet to see if that lowers bg - so wet food would be the way to go. There are lots of options on the UK food list and they do vary in price, the cheapest being a brand called Butcher's which is available in some supermarkets and online. It's very low-carb so a good choice. Other supermarket brands include Hi Life and the popular Whiskas and Felix in jelly varieties - not the best quality but many cats do fine on it.

There's more detail we could go into but I'd suggest a vet visit fitst to see what you're dealing with. Good luck!
 
Somecatperson said:
Assuming 200g daily, this is probably doable.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/pet_...pNbptOMbZTefK09IYr63FiasFLfSXWeEaApODEALw_wcB

Remember reading somewhere that this specific one can raise BG in some though (See it on the list as well) so will wait until a vet visit anyway. Thanks all.
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Yes it has been suggested that this can raise bg in some cats, not necessarily all. If you've done much reading here you'll see the acronym ECID - every cat is different - a lot. In other words, cats can and do respond differently to some things (quite a lot of things in fact!)
 
Somecatperson said:
Can't get the calculator to work on my phone. Does anyone know the carb content of Iams chicken?
Click to expand...
Hi, (waving from Surrey!)
Regarding the Iam's chicken dry food... The second ingredient is maize so that tells us straight away that this is going to be a high carb food.
Moisture content isn't listed, but if I use a hypothetical (fairly typical) 10% for moisture the carb content comes out as about 31.7% of calories...

For diabetics and kitties with urinary issues it is (as you've read above) very much better to feed wet food. There are some lower cost options available. I think Diana has mentioned 'Butcher's Classic' (available from some supermarkets) which is a very good budget option. There are more options if you're willing to buy from somewhere like Zooplus (will try to list a few later...)

Exactly what symptoms are you seeing?
Common symptoms with diabetes would be drinking and peeing a lot. There may be increased (or markedly decreased in some situations) appetite. Dry 'dandruffy' coat. And back leg weakness if the cat has been in high blood glucose levels for some time ('neuropathy').

If you suspect diabetes (or indeed if you suspect that anything at all is amiss) it is very important to get a diagnosis from your vet as soon as possible.
Diabetic kitties in high blood glucose levels are much more at risk of developing ketones as their bodies try to break down fat for energy. And ketones can quickly develop into a condition called diabetic ketoacidosis ('DKA'). DKA is a complex condition that is very expensive to treat and is potentially lethal for the kitty, especially if not treated promptly. So, you really don't want to get into that situation if at all possible...

If you can't get to a vet today then are you at least able to get some urine test strips from a pharmacy? 'Keto-diastix' will test the urine for both ketones and glucose. If the glucose test is positive it is 'highly likely' your kitty is diabetic. If the reading for ketones is any higher than 'trace' then you need to contact your vet straight away for advice.

Not all ketones are registered by the strips, so also have an awareness of how your kitty's breath smells. A smell that is fruity or like acetone can also indicate ketones.

The urine glucose test is not a definitive test for diabetes, it only shows if - and to what extent - glucose has been excreted in the urine since the last time the kitty peed. A positive test does make diabetes quite likely however. But a negative glucose test doesn't rule it out. A negative test only means that the cat's blood blood glucose has been below the 'renal threshold' since the last time the kitty peed. But the cat may still have blood glucose above the normal range.

Eliz
 
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A few more cat food suggestions...
It is well worth looking at foods on Zooplus such as Smilla, Feringa, Bozita, and Animonda. There are often some good bulk offers. And if you have a multi-cat household and can use larger cans things can work out even cheaper.
For example, you can get 12 x 400g cans of Feringa for £14.99 (£3.12 per kilo). Or you can get 12 x 800g cans for £27.99 (£2.92 per kilo).
Like many of the European foods Feringa has a high meat content, often higher than the standard supermarket fare.
https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/feringa_wet_cat_food/saver_packs/437333

Eliz
 
Somecatperson said:
Thanks for all those suggestions Eliz. Worst case I'll try and introduce some wet food regularly anyway.

Earliest appointment was tomorrow morning so he'll be looked at very soon.
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Let us know what the vet says. If diabetes is confirmed (unlikely on the day, but it might be strongly suspected if bg is very high) the vet will probably advise that you start insulin - but as we said before, you can try a low-carb diet first to see if that brings bg down. It would be a good idea to invest in testing supplies so you can check bg at home rather than making repeat visits to the vet where you would probably be charged ££ for a single test. The vet might also suggest a prescription diet food - avoid this, it is costly and not as good a diet as ordinary wet food. On an ongoing basis, if insulin is given, don't buy syringes etc from the vet - they're much cheaper online!
 
Hi somecatperson. Would you be willing to share your first name and your cat's name with us? Please?
My first name is Deb. That picture over there in my avatar was my diabetic cat Wink.

Elizabeth and Bertie said:
If you can't get to a vet today then are you at least able to get some urine test strips from a pharmacy? 'Keto-diastix' will test the urine for both ketones and glucose. If the glucose test is positive it is 'highly likely' your kitty is diabetic. If the reading for ketones is any higher than 'trace' then you need to contact your vet straight away for advice.
Click to expand...
And if at all possible, pick up those test strips to check for ketones before that. Today. It could be very urgent for your cat.

Please, let us know how the vet visit goes "Somecatperson."

Thank you to Diana&Tom and Elizabeth and Bertie for the UK specific advice. Much appreciated as always ladies.
(Waving back to you from "across the pond" on the chilly New England coast.)
 
Diana&Tom said:
Let us know what the vet says. If diabetes is confirmed (unlikely on the day, but it might be strongly suspected if bg is very high) the vet will probably advise that you start insulin - but as we said before, you can try a low-carb diet first to see if that brings bg down. It would be a good idea to invest in testing supplies so you can check bg at home rather than making repeat visits to the vet where you would probably be charged ££ for a single test. The vet might also suggest a prescription diet food - avoid this, it is costly and not as good a diet as ordinary wet food. On an ongoing basis, if insulin is given, don't buy syringes etc from the vet - they're much cheaper online!
Click to expand...

Any links for testing supplies? Thanks.

Deb & Wink said:
Hi somecatperson. Would you be willing to share your first name and your cat's name with us? Please?
My first name is Deb. That picture over there in my avatar was my diabetic cat Wink.

And if at all possible, pick up those test strips to check for ketones before that. Today. It could be very urgent for your cat.

Please, let us know how the vet visit goes "Somecatperson."

Thank you to Diana&Tom and Elizabeth and Bertie for the UK specific advice. Much appreciated as always ladies.
(Waving back to you from "across the pond" on the chilly New England coast.)
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It's Richard. Cats name is "White Chin". My Mum used to take in strays from time to time, get them spayed and rehome them. Some didn't get moved on though and were just kept, along with their "temporary names". She can no longer take care of them now though. Ive just continued with their usual diet since I've been looking after them.

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Yes, testing supplies...you'll need a meter, strips and lancets. The biggest ongoing cost is for the strips so you want a meter that uses strips you can get hold of easily and not too expensively. Some UKers use the Code Free from Amazon. Some buy a meter from ebay (where you can also pick up strips cheaply if you're careful). Other long-timers like @Elizabeth and Bertie like the One Touch Verio because it uses a small amount of blood. Lancets are cheap everywhere. There are threads somewhere here about UK meters - if you use the search bar you'll find them as quickly as I can. And maybe Elizabeth will have some other suggestions.

Here's one

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/uk-glucose-meter-advice-please.220969/#post-2468330

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=codefr...ef=nb_sb_ss_sc_2_17&tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
 
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Hi Richard and boy kitty White Chin! Thanks for introducing yourselves.

We realize that your vet visit is not until tomorrow, 2/27/2020, so the diabetes or something else going on with White Chin will not be know until then. But gathering as much information as possible before hand will be helpful to you.

We also have knowledge of other medical conditions that can affect cats, so we may be of help if it turns out to be something other than diabetes.

This link may contain some UK meter information. Food, Insulin, and Other Supplies. I already combed through it and checked the members there to see what meters they use.

Georgiana & Perlutz as well as Kate & Toby both use an Alphatrak 2 pet meter as did Schmill.
But test strip costs for those can be very expensive.
Gill & George moved to Spain (used to be UK) and use the SD code free meter. Becki and Sox use the Freestyle Lite. Cherish4 uses the Gluco RX Nexus but shoots "blind" most of the time.:woot::nailbiting: Few pre-shot tests.

@Elizabeth and Bertie That link mentions a study by the RVC that says Prozinc insulin is the best choice for cats. Do you happen to have a link to that study by any chance? Was an article published about that? Somewhere we can refer people to, so they can have their vets look at the information is what I'm looking for, if you have that information.
 
Deb & Wink said:
That link mentions a study by the RVC that says Prozinc insulin is the best choice for cats. Do you happen to have a link to that study by any chance? Was an article published about that? Somewhere we can refer people to, so they can have their vets look at the information is what I'm looking for, if you have that information.
Click to expand...
Hi Deb, regarding the RVC, yes there 'is' something written in the public domain about that, and I 'did' have a link. But I lost the page with all my links on when I had computer issues a while back... I'm going through the process of finding things again...
Their own research found that cats did better when switched from Caninsulin to Prozinc (insulin duration, glycemic control, clinical signs, occurrence of remission). However, this also included ensuring cats were on a low carb diet, so that would also have been a factor...

I did find an email that I got from the RVC remission clinic a long time ago. It was in response to me asking them if there was any "clinical reason" for vets to prescribe Caninsulin now that Prozinc was available?' This was the reply (they may be referencing the ISFM guidelinse (see below) rather than their own research here):
"....both ProZinc and Caninsulin are licensed insulins for treatment of diabetes in cats. There is no reason why Caninsulin should be prescribed first. Current guidelines for management of diabetes in cats suggest starting insulin treatment with a long-acting insulin preparation (in the UK only ProZinc is licensed), however, this is based on expert opinions rather than well-designed studies. There is no legitimate reason changing cats that are well controlled on Caninsulin to insulin ProZInc, so the suggestion of the guidelines - to start treatment with ProZinc - only applies to newly diagnosed diabetics. I hope that helps. Best wishes."

I came across another article on a Veterinary forum discussing why vets were slow to switch to Prozinc, and the opinion of the author was that it was mainly due to Caninsulin being 'what vets were used to using', and 'their already having it on their shelves'....

The ISFM (international) guidelines recommend longer-lasting insulins for cats:
"Although good control of DM can be achieved in cats with both intermediate and longer acting insulin preparations, and definitive comparative studies in diabetic cats are lacking, given current knowledge of the pharmacodynamics of insulin preparations in cats, the Panel recommends, whenever possible, the use of longer acting insulin preparations (eg, glargine, detemir or PZi), injected twice daily, for optimal diabetic control."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1098612x15571880

I hope this helps. Will keep searching for other links...

Eliz

Edited to add: Just found some RVC info that I've never seen before (and it came out as first suggestion on my search)! Am posting link here for reference, and will add the link to the UK info.
'Guide to feline diabetes. Diagnosis and treatment guidelines of the RVC Diabetic Remission Clinic'
https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/small-animal/documents/feline-diabetes-guide.pdf
 
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He's been seen. Lost a KG in a year, but he was overweight. Still big at 8 but not really fat, he's a very large cat like his brother. I feed the other one wet food sometimes to help with his UTI sensitivity and when I do, this one will get some. Maybe it's more filling and he eats less dry. And less carbs of course.

I'd totally forgotten, but he was seen last year for a UTI. Bladder is a little tender so antibiotics for 5 days, see what happens.

Will any ketone strips work? Might look for some to use whilst he's on the tablets.
 
Been a while now. This cat and his brother are both diabetic. Not using insulin right now as I intend to start low carbing, just not sure the best way to do it. The rest do fine grazing on dry throughout the day.

Vet also recommended Hills dry low carb weight management but I'm guessing this is just what they're told to do, still 18% carbs or so.
 
Hi Richard and White Chin.

Diabetic cats need 12% carbs or less. There are no dry foods that I'm aware of that meet those criteria.

Canned cat food has the low carbs that diabetic cats need. Look back at post #4 in this thread for the UK food chart.

Why no insulin?
Do you home test the blood glucose? That can save you many vet visits and the expense of having the vet test your cat.

p.s. Would you please update your user id profile for us? Looking for signature info and your location, so we can help you better.
Signature instructions.
Sure would love you to take 60 seconds and put some helpful information in your User Id profile, including the "Signature" portion.

Go to the top right corner of the screen, click on your user name, a drop down list will appear, select "Signature" from that list. Start typing in the text box that appears and be sure to click on the "Save Changes" button at the end of the text box.

Information like your first name, your cat's name age and sex, DX: (diagnosis date), insulin used, meter used (when you get one), food fed, and then the SS (spreadsheet) link when you get that setup are so, so helpful to those of us responding to members. That signature information will be "magically" attached at the end of all your posts. Signature and other user profile information can be updated as needed.

While you are there, editing your user profile, if you could update your profile to include your location, that is helpful also. We'd love to see a picture of White Chin in your Avatar also.
 
Will do that when I can.

Insulin wise, just don't want to risk a hypo when combined with low carb. Also saved another trip to the vet, given the current climate and living with somewhat vulnerable people.

I have a regular, spare glucometer; I tested it at the vets when they used their pet one, read fairly close (18 vs 21, 22 or so if I remember correctly)
 
Thanks for putting the "Signature" info there Richard. It really helps us.

Most people here use a human glucometer, so your spare meter is just fine. Do let us know what the blood glucose (BG) readings are for both White Chin and now Squeaks, your 2 diabetic cats.

Best way to do that, is to set up our standardized, color coded spreadsheet. We have a template you copy, so you don't have to "reinvent the wheel" and create your own version. Instructions include detailed setup steps with diagrams for PC, tablet, smartphone. Great tool to share with your vet also. You can email the spreadsheet (SS) to your vet.

How to do that spreadsheet setup is explained in this link FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions
What it means, is in this link. Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

You would want a separate spreadsheet for each of your cats. Try setting one up first, attach it to your signature, and we'll let you know if it looks good and we can see that "view only" version.

How are you getting on, with every thing that is going on in the world? Scary times.
 
So they've been on wet food for a while now, pouch each in the morning and night, they love it. Other cats won't eat their food at mealtimes though so there's dry food out for them. No doubt the 2 diabetics will get some of it. At least one is drinking noticeably less.

Called the vet re food. Recommended Hills again, need a special diabetic food or they won't be healthy. But I think any low carb will do.

Right now it's Felix, got some Bozita too. Is 2 pouches a day of the former enough? They're around 6-7kg so need to lose a bit. Might look at switching them all over to wet to be honest. Would all be happier with it I imagine.

Also cant for the life of me get a blood sample. Lancet or lancet device, he just recoil in horror and fights back. Would love some tips, especially as they're not on insulin.
 
Are you testing for ketones in the urine at least every few days while you are not giving insulin. You can risk ketones developing not starting insulin but ok if you are testing for ketones.

Here is a link to Home testing the blood glucose. Are you offering a treat as you test?
Are you warming the ear first?
Try ‘milking’ the ear towards the top to encourage the blood to go up there. You will get there !
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
 
Somecatperson said:
Other cats won't eat their food at mealtimes though so there's dry food out for them. No doubt the 2 diabetics will get some of it.
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No doubt. A great way to get your other non-diabetic cats to eat more at meal times, is to start taking away the food at certain times. You will be using their natural hunger urges to get them to eat at selected times.

Maybe only have food out 4 times a day.

Somecatperson said:
But I think any low carb will do. Right now it's Felix, got some Bozita too.
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Yes, most low carb foods are better than the prescription foods that vets insist on. You do want to have good amounts of protein in the food also. Go back and look at post reply #26, to see that link to the RVC (Royal Veterinary College) in London study about what food to feed and the consensus of what a diabetic cat needs. It says <12-15% carbs and =>40% protein, but here we recommend <= 10% carbs. Look back at post reply #4 for the link to the UK food list of low carb foods.

Low carb canned or pouched food will be better for all your cats. Better for their kidneys, better for weight management, better for their coat and skin. Once I switched all my cats to canned food, their fur got so soft and shiny and I understood the dry food was not helping them to be healthy.

Somecatperson said:
Also cant for the life of me get a blood sample. Lancet or lancet device, he just recoil in horror and fights back. Would love some tips, especially as they're not on insulin.
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My 2 favorite links within the Hometesting Links and Tips are
•Ear Testing Psychology• which is basically learning to be a "cat whisperer" and a more gentle approach to testing.

and Marje and Gracie's Testing and Shooting Tips

Please, go take a look at those links. Lots of good information there for you on testing. Just click on the blue colored text and it will open the link for you.
 
Deb & Wink said:
No doubt. A great way to get your other non-diabetic cats to eat more at meal times, is to start taking away the food at certain times. You will be using their natural hunger urges to get them to eat at selected times.

Maybe only have food out 4 times a day.


Yes, most low carb foods are better than the prescription foods that vets insist on. You do want to have good amounts of protein in the food also. Go back and look at post reply #26, to see that link to the RVC (Royal Veterinary College) in London study about what food to feed and the consensus of what a diabetic cat needs. It says <12-15% carbs and =>40% protein, but here we recommend <= 10% carbs. Look back at post reply #4 for the link to the UK food list of low carb foods.

Low carb canned or pouched food will be better for all your cats. Better for their kidneys, better for weight management, better for their coat and skin. Once I switched all my cats to canned food, their fur got so soft and shiny and I understood the dry food was not helping them to be healthy.


My 2 favorite links within the Hometesting Links and Tips are
•Ear Testing Psychology• which is basically learning to be a "cat whisperer" and a more gentle approach to testing.

and Marje and Gracie's Testing and Shooting Tips

Please, go take a look at those links. Lots of good information there for you on testing. Just click on the blue colored text and it will open the link for you.
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Thanks for the info. I am more leaning towards switching them all over to wet. They all like Felix AGAIL and some the Bozita.

The diabetic cats are around 6kg, think they should be more around 5. Are the manufacturers feeding guidelines pretty good for weight loss?

Sorry for all the questions. Quite a lot too take in. Very busy with work as well due to current events so don't have as much time as I'd like to sort things.
 
Somecatperson said:
The diabetic cats are around 6kg, think they should be more around 5. Are the manufacturers feeding guidelines pretty good for weight loss?
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The manufacturer recommendations on the cat food cans and pouches runs a bit high in my experience.

If I fed my little 7.5 lb (3.4 kg) cat what the cans said, she'd need about 2.5 3 oz (85 gram) cans of food for a total of 7.5 ounces (210 -215 grams). She maintains her weight eating about 5 ounces (130-140 grams) of food. If I fed her what was recommended on the cat food can, using the minimum amounts, she would quickly become overweight, and she's a pretty active cat, albeit almost 10 years old.

So no, the cat food manufacturers feeding guidelines are not very good for weight loss.
Are your diabetic cats overweight? Or are some of the other cats that ones that need to lose weight?

Canned cat food diets are good for weight loss, because they are lower in calories than the dry foods.

Somecatperson said:
Sorry for all the questions. Quite a lot too take in. Very busy with work as well due to current events so don't have as much time as I'd like to sort things.
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Keep asking questions. We'd rather see questions then have you not ask about something.

Current events have added another full time job to peoples already busy lives. It's a wonder how we are all coping with the extra work to keep ourselves safe, find human and pet food and supplies that are difficult to come by and more responsibilities at work. It's tough right now. Even tougher than 2 months ago.
 
So recently stocked up on Hill's MD wet food as per the vets recommendation (Did check the carbs, ordered from Zooplus and it lists carbohydrates 0.039 %, different to the food chart here). Expensive but I want to give them the best chance of being healthy. Anyway, for weight loss the recommendation is just 1 can every day which seems low. They're both around 6kg, would like them to be more like 5. Think 1 is enough? And should it be in 2 meals as opposed to just once a day?

As for the rest of them, I'm gradually starting to move them all onto the Felix pouches in jelly that I was originally feeding to the other 2. Still have lots of dry kibble left, but I'm also hoping to totally remove it from the household over the next few days or more. The feeding guide for that seems overboard to be honest, 2-3 pouches a day in at least 2 meals. I think something like 1 pouch twice a day for maintaining weight, and 3/4 of a pouch twice a day for weight loss would be more ideal.
 
Somecatperson said:
And should it be in 2 meals as opposed to just once a day?
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At least 2 meals a day. Splitting the food into mini-meals, with the bulk of the food with the pre-shot test time is better. Then split the rest of the food into small portions, and feed in the first half of the 12 hour insulin dosing cycle. Many people feed 4-6 meals a day.

Somecatperson said:
Anyway, for weight loss the recommendation is just 1 can every day which seems low. They're both around 6kg, would like them to be more like 5. Think 1 is enough?
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Probably not. Unregulated diabetics are very hungry. Too much weight loss too fast can lead to ketones developing. A life threatening and very expensive condition called DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) can result. Multiple days in 24 hour vet care needed if that happens.

Somecatperson said:
So recently stocked up on Hill's MD wet food as per the vets recommendation (Did check the carbs, ordered from Zooplus and it lists carbohydrates 0.039 %, different to the food chart here).
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Carbs listed on that website are the min/max values, and do not take removing the water from the food into consideration. Food charts we use do and use the "As Fed" values, obtained at great effort from the food manufacturers. The Hill's M/d wet is around 12-14% carbs. Also notice on the Zooplus website how they break out "Starch" as a separate category percentage.

As far as how much to feed the non-diabetic cats, that is going to be a bit of trial and error and your part.
 
Deb & Wink said:
At least 2 meals a day. Splitting the food into mini-meals, with the bulk of the food with the pre-shot test time is better. Then split the rest of the food into small portions, and feed in the first half of the 12 hour insulin dosing cycle. Many people feed 4-6 meals a day.


Probably not. Unregulated diabetics are very hungry. Too much weight loss too fast can lead to ketones developing. A life threatening and very expensive condition called DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) can result. Multiple days in 24 hour vet care needed if that happens.


Carbs listed on that website are the min/max values, and do not take removing the water from the food into consideration. Food charts we use do and use the "As Fed" values, obtained at great effort from the food manufacturers. The Hill's M/d wet is around 12-14% carbs. Also notice on the Zooplus website how they break out "Starch" as a separate category percentage.

As far as how much to feed the non-diabetic cats, that is going to be a bit of trial and error and your part.
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Interesting re: the carbs. Did notice the difference with the food chart here. Basically, the Felix is probably a healthier choice for them?
 
Some cats can do ok on the Hill's M/d wet foods.
In fact in the French language facebook, they feed a lot of the M/d dry (croquettes) as well as the canned version. But they are also much more aggressive with the dosing, and a fair number of people monitor with the Freestyle Libre CGM (Continuous Glucose Monitor).
 
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