Remission Already?!

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frankheat

Member Since 2020
Hey sugar babies. Teddy was diagnosed with diabetes a couple months ago. He was on hills Z/D diet due to skin issues and I didn’t realize how bad the food is for cats. Very high carbs. My vet didn’t tell me that but wanted me to continue him on the z/d and take him to get a glucose curve every three weeks while managing with 2 units pro zinc. Also I think it was the steroid shot for skin issue that set the whole thing off. He has had three injections in his whole life when his skin got very ragged from over-grooming.

Like I said, I did research and found out how horrible Hills food is. I haven’t been able to consult with the vet because of Covid. But my gut told me to switch him to Koha Rabbit meat which is v low carb. I only started testing a couple of days ago but he’s been scoring very low(see ss). I’ve only dosed him with PZ once stupidly because I hadn’t read that you shouldn’t dose a cat under 150. After realizing I was throwing him into hypo I gave him some of the carby hills z/d I still had and some honey. He bounced back and I haven’t given him a shot since.

I haven’t tested him as much today because I wanted to give his poor ears a break. The first set of strips was faulty and I kept getting error messages. I thought it was user error until I opened another package so I messed his ears up pretty good trying to get a reading.

Since I’ve stopped giving him insulin he’s been his old energetic self—one I haven’t seen in months. I didn’t realized he had been hypo the last week+. He was absolutely ravenous for food so I considered him hyperglyc if anything before testing. Also, I think he’s gained a pound of pure muscle in the last 3-4 days. He’s also ceased any grooming issues because his new food doesn’t contain any thing like pumpkin or peas like the other “limited diet” cat foods that didn’t work for him.

I know you are supposed to ease cats off the insulin but he consistently tests in the 50s before meals. If anything, I’m going to switch him to something higher carb like kangaroo. I’m the meantime I’m going to quit insulin but wanted to get some feedback.

It was almost anticlimactic because I geared up with all the testing supplies and was prepared to fight the good fight along all you beautiful people for years possibly. I still plan on testing him intermittently but the whole situation is weird to me but I feel blessed nonetheless.

Let me know if you have any advice going forward to pass along to Teddy. If he continues remission I can’t wait to show my vet because he was telling me how low the odds of remission are. I suppose if you keep him on the Hills z/d diet and manage it with insulin the problem will never go away.

I hope maybe my experience might help some people. Vets, unfortunately, do not alway have yours or your cat’s best interest in mind. Hills Science is deeply in cahoots the Veterinary industry. Like I said, he didn’t even bring up changing food even when I asked him if it was bad for diabetics. I wanted to cry when I finally found out how many carbs there are in it. Also, I think the vet was happy for me to pay hundreds of dollars for glucose curves every 3 weeks but that’s neither here nor there.

Frank

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I think maybe if you are switching to a higher carb food you should keep testing. If a cat is in the 50's WITHOUT insulin thats perfect.
Please wait for more responses as I havent had a diabetic in many years.
BTW Thank you for being such a vigilant caregiver for Teddy. Hes a very lucky kitty!:bighug:
 
Frank, you also need to test Teddy about 3-4 hours after the pre-shot tests, or what used to be the pre-shot tests.
To see if the BG (blood glucose) levels are lower after the food. That is how you know the pancreas is working and producing insulin on it's own.

Would you also please update your signature to include other important information.
Editing your Signature, Profile, and Preferences

Let us know when you have fixed the permissions on your spreadsheet (SS), so we can view it.
Check through the steps in the SS setup instructions here, to make sure you did the steps correctly.
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

We understand you are angry and frustrated with your vet. But please remember that they have thousands of conditions that they have to know about, and they can't know everything. Neither can we. We all have limits on our experience and knowledge. For instance, I'm horrible at calculus.
 
Frank, you also need to test Teddy about 3-4 hours after the pre-shot tests, or what used to be the pre-shot tests.
To see if the BG (blood glucose) levels are lower after the food. That is how you know the pancreas is working and producing insulin on it's own.

Would you also please update your signature to include other important information.
Editing your Signature, Profile, and Preferences

Let us know when you have fixed the permissions on your spreadsheet (SS), so we can view it.
Check through the steps in the SS setup instructions here, to make sure you did the steps correctly.
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

We understand you are angry and frustrated with your vet. But please remember that they have thousands of conditions that they have to know about, and they can't know everything. Neither can we. We all have limits on our experience and knowledge. For instance, I'm horrible at calculus.

Thank you for the info, I’m working on updating my profile. When you say the +3-4 number should be lower do you mean he should be at a lower number than he was at feeding. So if he was 60 for PS/feeding, he should be under that 3 hours later?
 
When you say the +3-4 number should be lower do you mean he should be at a lower number than he was at feeding. So if he was 60 for PS/feeding, he should be under that 3 hours later?

Sorry, I did not give a good enough explanation. Try this.

So, no food for at least 2 hours before that PS test. So it is not food influenced.
Then feed.
Then test 3-4 hours later, and the number should still be in the green color coded ranges on the SS. <99 mg/dL (5.5 mmol/L)
If his body is not producing enough insulin, the food will cause the BG (blood glucose) levels to be higher, jumping into the blue colored coded ranges on the SS.

Holy smoke! No wonder you are trying an OTJ trial, with those neon green hypoglycemic zone BG numbers you got on 2.2U of the Prozinc on 3/27/20, both AM and PM cycles.

With that recent diet change for Teddy's diet, from a higher carb food to the lower carb, that may have done the trick. That may have "kick started" his pancreas, dropping so low.

Did he have hypo symptoms?

p.s.Link to the SS is working, although it's not our standardized spreadsheet, it will do. If you came from another diabetes group, then there may be a bug in the spreadsheet. It's workable for now.
 
Thank you so much—yeah he had hypo symptoms—very hungry and tired though at the time my inexperience led me to believe it was hyper until I started testing him and saw the crazy low number. I actually tested my own blood to make sure it wasn’t a faulty device.

After going off of insulin even for a couple of days everything changed. He gained muscle in his back and butt—he had turned waifish from the diabetes. He is solid again and when you pick him up you can feel the beef. He isn’t listless with play either—I thought he hated all of his toys but he is engaging in play again.

I apologize for the spreadsheet—I got the template and everything else from this community but I must have butchered it. I need to sit down and properly set everything up but I haven’t been able to put myself together and do it yet.

Thanks again for your support—I can honestly say that Teddy would be at the mercy of my idiot vet without you guys—just kidding but I really do believe that my vet is below average intelligence;) he always has food in his mouth when he’s talking to me—like he took a bite of a sandwich right before he walked in room. As well as permanent ketchup and mustard stains on his scrubs from all the hamburgers he eats.

I joke but people will unconsciously put profitability in front of patient needs all the time. It is human nature and is something that mental health clinicians have to stay in front of all the time. People have a survival instinct and want to earn a living. It’s not in the forefront of ethics teaching for medical doctors like in the psychology world which is very unfortunate. I was just trying to point out there is a healthy amount of cynicism to be had in the healthcare industry and I guess the animal healthcare industry too. Taking a diabetic cat off of high carb diet does not seem like a calculus problem to me. I just wanted to spread some awareness of that fact because they speak with such authority on issues they may have an amateur understanding.

I had already spent close to $1000 on this whole thing and was prepared to spend $1000s more on diabetic maintenance if I had kept him on the z/d diet and continued insulin and monthly glucose curves. Not to mention my cats actual health.

Also people, Hills Science is awful for you cat. They are like the du Pont of cat food. Don’t listen when your vet tries to push their food on you. There are great options out there if you cat has allergies and diabetes—you don’t have to sacrifice one for the others. There are fake “limited ingredient” foods that actually have a lot of filler. Stay away if it contains things like pumpkin or cranberries. I don’t know the last time a cat when into a pumpkin patch hunted a pumpkin. It’s filler, pure and simple.

Having to see my Teddy choose between over-groomed, hairless and raw hind legs or diabetes isn’t necessary but I had to do a ton of research on my own to find that out. Never once did the handful of vets ever point me in the right direction concerning that.

So I am blessed to find this community.

Frank
 
Frank, we are glad that we could help you learn more.

p.s. I'm starting to feel sick, slight fever, so may not be on the message board much the next while.
 
Hi Frank I can see yourSS now.
Teddy certainly doesn't need any insulins at the moment looking at those numbers.
I would keep testing a couple of times a day for 14 days just to see that he I see ok. This is called an off the juice trial (OTJ)
If you get a higher number, then test again a couple of hours after food.

What food are you feeding him now? Are you feeding him a few times a day as well as his main two meals?
He will always be a diabetic....now he will be a diet controlled diabetic so you will always need to keep him on a low carb wet diet.
 
Hi Frank I can see yourSS now.
Teddy certainly doesn't need any insulins at the moment looking at those numbers.
I would keep testing a couple of times a day for 14 days just to see that he I see ok. This is called an off the juice trial (OTJ)
If you get a higher number, then test again a couple of hours after food.

What food are you feeding him now? Are you feeding him a few times a day as well as his main two meals?
He will always be a diabetic....now he will be a diet controlled diabetic so you will always need to keep him on a low carb wet diet.
Frank, we are glad that we could help you learn more.

p.s. I'm starting to feel sick, slight fever, so may not be on the message board much the next while.
Please take care of yourself and get better!
 
Hi Frank I can see yourSS now.
Teddy certainly doesn't need any insulins at the moment looking at those numbers.
I would keep testing a couple of times a day for 14 days just to see that he I see ok. This is called an off the juice trial (OTJ)
If you get a higher number, then test again a couple of hours after food.

What food are you feeding him now? Are you feeding him a few times a day as well as his main two meals?
He will always be a diabetic....now he will be a diet controlled diabetic so you will always need to keep him on a low carb wet diet.

Hey thank you for the advice. I’m feeding him Koha Rabbit currently but thinking about gong raw. In the meantime I’m slowly reintroducing other ingredients and adding raw meal toppers. The Rabbit is high phosphorus so I’m hoping to switch to a turkey.

Now that he’s OTJ I’m breaking his meals up—two main meals but a little portion here and there to keep him even.

He test at a 60 pre meal today and his +3 was 63. I am happy with that for now and I will he giving his little ears a break.

I will definitely be monitoring him for the next few weeks then every now and then for the rest of his little life.
 
Hey thank you for the advice. I’m feeding him Koha Rabbit currently but thinking about gong raw. In the meantime I’m slowly reintroducing other ingredients and adding raw meal toppers. The Rabbit is high phosphorus so I’m hoping to switch to a turkey.

Now that he’s OTJ I’m breaking his meals up—two main meals but a little portion here and there to keep him even.

He test at a 60 pre meal today and his +3 was 63. I am happy with that for now and I will he giving his little ears a break.

I will definitely be monitoring him for the next few weeks then every now and then for the rest of his little life.
Great.
Highly recommend feeding a raw diet. I feed my cats only a raw diet. You need to make sure it is balanced nutritionally though
 
Oh definitely, I’ve been down the rabbit hole of raw diet prep and recipes but it’s a little more than I can handle in my tiny NY studio apt(tiny kitchen). Also, I’m not sure if Teddy can eat fowl—will have to see how he responds to Turkey.

But I definitely have aspirations for a raw diet in the future:)
 
14 days of normal non-diabetic cat BG readings at AM and PM and it's official that your Teddy is OTJ, aka off-the-juice, insulin being the juice. Remission. Diet controlled.

Keep safe there in NY.
 
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