? Tiger's TID(3x a day) Vetsulin Ride

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Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man

Member Since 2014
Previous thread, please take a look see http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/tigers-wild-ride-on-insulin-train.227475/#post-2548835
Today is the first day we are doing the TID. His daily is 14u's(Vetsulin) which breaks down to 3.5u's every 8hrs. First Reading AMPS 213+11, of course he just had to drive me crazy and be lower than usual. GRRRR. I know he will go up and up. Should I wait to do the TID and not shoot this morning???? Or do another reading after he eats??? And go from there.
 
You made it through another day Jacque.
That sob story I told you the other day, this was why I did it.
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I'd really like to see you go back to ProZinc every 12 hours.....something has changed with Tiger and he may respond a lot better now.

79 is a little low when you're using Vetsulin. If you haven't already done it, I'd feed him a teaspoon or 2 of low carb food and test again soon
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I'd really like to see you go back to ProZinc every 12 hours.....something has changed with Tiger and he may respond a lot better now.

79 is a little low when you're using Vetsulin. If you haven't already done it, I'd feed him a teaspoon or 2 of low carb food and test again soon
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He nibbled on 5 friskie's treats and had about 10 Merricks dry. Yes, that's what I was thinking too. He threw a low number one other time back on the 15th and then went back up
 
Bouncing from that low yesterday.

That BG of 79 isn't as bad as you might think, but you definitely don't want it any lower than that. Around 90 or 100 for the nadir/low with Vetsulin would be better. That is what you are aiming for.

With the TID dosing of Vetsulin, I'd make sure you gave Tiger a little snack of 1 teaspoon of wet food at +1 and +2, to help keep his BG numbers up a bit higher.
 
Well, had to put him back on the Lasix, congestion came back. Also Doc said he has to take Pred 5mg too. I hate Pred it can damage organs if taken long term. And someone said in one of my threads that it may cause his glucose to go up.
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Well, had to put him back on the Lasix, congestion came back. Also Doc said he has to take Pred 5mg too. I hate Pred it can damage organs if taken long term. And someone said in one of my threads that it may cause his glucose to go up.
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Here's what I'm thinking. Maybe I should give him the Pred and the Lasix on the +4, because that is usually when he will start to go low..reckon thats when the insulin kicks in. @Deb & Wink whatcha think?
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
lso Doc said he has to take Pred 5mg too. I hate Pred it can damage organs if taken long term. And someone said in one of my threads that it may cause his glucose to go up.
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If he needs medications to help with other conditions, such as the Pred and the lasix, you adjust the insulin dose around those other very necessary medications.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Well, had to put him back on the Lasix, congestion came back.
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Then you have to give Tiger the lasix. Controlling the congestion is more important right now than the diabetes. His breathing needs "supersedes", "trumps", is more important than the blood sugar being higher.
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Maybe I should give him the Pred and the Lasix on the +4, because that is usually when he will start to go low..reckon thats when the insulin kicks in.
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The insulin probably kicks in around +2, but it takes until +4 to bring Tiger's BG's to their nadir, or close to the nadir. No idea when giving the lasix and the pred would be more helpful. Sorry.
 
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Deb & Wink said:
If he needs medications to help with other conditions, such as the Pred and the lasix, you adjust the insulin dose around those other very necessary medications.


Then you have to give Tiger the lasix. Controlling the congestion is more important right now than the diabetes. His breathing needs "supersends", "trumps", is more important than the blood sugar being higher.

The insulin probably kicks in around +2, but it takes until +4 to bring Tiger's BG's to their nadir, or close to the nadir. No idea when giving the lasix and the pred would be more helpful. Sorry.
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For sure..Maybe it's a good think we are doing the TID especially since I'm adding Pred
 
You've heard ECID before. And that seems it's also true for cats and how they respond to prednisolone. Some take longer than others before it impacts the blood sugar. Looks like it's experiment time with Tigger. I don't think it's immediate after giving though. Remind me again what the pred is for? My girl was only ever on budesonide and it didn't impact her blood sugar. Neither did Lasix.

As for TID dosing, did you get any tests in the third cycle last night? If you can only test two out of three cycles, TID might not be the answer.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You've heard ECID before. And that seems it's also true for cats and how they respond to prednisolone. Some take longer than others before it impacts the blood sugar. Looks like it's experiment time with Tigger. I don't think it's immediate after giving though. Remind me again what the pred is for? My girl was only ever on budesonide and it didn't impact her blood sugar. Neither did Lasix.

As for TID dosing, did you get any tests in the third cycle last night? If you can only test two out of three cycles, TID might not be the answer.
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The pred is to help with his breathing. He sometimes struggles because of the fluid. Xray showed he had a small amount of fluid buildup near his chest cavity. As far as a the third cycle, no I didn't get a reading. Didn't think it was necessary since his PMPS was so high 457.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You've heard ECID before. And that seems it's also true for cats and how they respond to prednisolone. Some take longer than others before it impacts the blood sugar. Looks like it's experiment time with Tigger. I don't think it's immediate after giving though. Remind me again what the pred is for? My girl was only ever on budesonide and it didn't impact her blood sugar. Neither did Lasix.

As for TID dosing, did you get any tests in the third cycle last night? If you can only test two out of three cycles, TID might not be the answer.
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And if he was on his original BID I would have for sure tested him.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Even more important when doing TID dosing, to test in each cycle.
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So what you are saying every 4 hrs forever?. When I was doing Bid I tested every 2hrs forever. I was told is MORE important when he was Bid and before..when we didn't know even the slightest what his nadir was.

Also told that when TID doesn't need to be tested as much since we know that her usually goes high at the +8-9. I'm donking myself in the head. Getting frustrated....I thought we have a nadir for Tiger..the glucose drops at +4 to +6 range.
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
So what you are saying every 4 hrs forever?. When I was doing Bid I tested every 2hrs forever. I was told is MORE important when he was Bid and before..when we didn't know even the slightest what his nadir was.

Also told that when TID doesn't need to be tested as much since we know that her usually goes high at the +8-9. I'm donking myself in the head. Getting frustrated....I thought we have a nadir for Tiger..the glucose drops at +4 to +6 range.
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I was also told that I test waaaaay too much since we have a somewhat nadir figured out.
 
You had a nadir for the BID dosing with Vetsulin.
Now you are giving insulin more frequently, and that nadir can change. It may stay the same, or it may not.
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
I follow other peoples posts and they don't get in trouble for not testing every 4 hrs. I don't understand why I'm in trouble.
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You are not in trouble. You need to figure out what is best for you and Tiger going forward.
We are trying really hard to help, and keep you sane, and Tiger safe.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
I guess what some of you are saying is that I can never sleep again as long as Tiger is alive?
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No, Jacque you have to sleep. But each dosing cycle does need a test, to be safe. At least according to "best practices."

It's why TID dosing is not recommended very often. It's hell on the caregiver. Even if it does help Tiger to have lower BG levels and feel better.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
I was also told that I test waaaaay too much since we have a somewhat nadir figured out.
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Who told you that you are testing "way too much"? Facebook someone? Your vet?

p.s. Wish you had kept the link to the old BID dosing SS in your signature. You can have 2 spreadsheets in the signature.

There was one day, that Tiger had a high pre-shot and he dropped to the greens. Can't remember which day that was. That is where the concern and worry are coming from, from us here.
 
Deb & Wink said:
You had a nadir for the BID dosing with Vetsulin.
Now you are giving insulin more frequently, and that nadir can change. It may stay the same, or it may not.

You are not in trouble. You need to figure out what is best for you and Tiger going forward.
We are trying really hard to help, and keep you sane, and Tiger safe.

No, Jacque you have to sleep. But each dosing cycle does need a test, to be safe. At least according to "best practices."

It's why TID dosing is not recommended very often. It's hell on the caregiver. Even if it does help Tiger to have lower BG levels and feel better.


Who told you that you are testing "way too much"? Facebook someone? Your vet?

p.s. Wish you had kept the link to the old BID dosing SS in your signature. You can have 2 spreadsheets in the signature.

There was one day, that Tiger had a high pre-shot and he dropped to the greens. Can't remember which day that was. That is where the concern and worry are coming from, from us here.
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The link is still there in the signature for his old ss
 
My bad. I missed the first SS link. Sorry.

Jacque, you have to find a balance in caring for Tiger that is going to work for YOU.
You also have Jazz Man's diabetes to take care of plus 18 other cats.
You have a life and responsibilities that we know something about, but we would never know everything. Nor would you want us to.

If something we suggest does not work, push back, push back as hard and as often as you need to.
 
Deb & Wink said:
My bad. I missed the first SS link. Sorry.

Jacque, you have to find a balance in caring for Tiger that is going to work for YOU.
You also have Jazz Man's diabetes to take care of plus 18 other cats.
You have a life and responsibilities that we know something about, but we would never know everything. Nor would you want us to.

If something we suggest does not work, push back, push back as hard and as often as you need to.
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Thanks..I was just fixin to leave the message board. I want your help. I need your help. I'm trying as hard as I can. To do what is right for Tiger and me. But getting up every 2hrs when I was shooting 2x a day was wearing me down..physically and mentally. And now that I'm shooting 3x a day I still have to check him every 4hrs and more often if he is real low so he doesn't die. And when he is high I have to monitor so he doesn't drop too fast and go too low.
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
Thanks..I was just fixin to leave the message board. I want your help. I need your help.
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You got our help Jacque. You've also got some really quick fingers. With those fast responses, I couldn't keep up with them. Speedy replies is not so easy for me these days, with arthritis in my fingers.

Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
'm trying as hard as I can. To do what is right for Tiger and me.
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So how can we make this better and more workable for you Jacque?
What can we do so you are NOT so blasted exhausted and ready to throw in the towel.
I have a hoard of Dove chocolates I could share. A mix of milk and dark. Shall I send you my chocolate stash?
Or do you want to be paid in cases of cat food?

What would make this better?
 
Deb & Wink said:
You got our help Jacque. You've also got some really quick fingers. With those fast responses, I couldn't keep up with them. Speedy replies is not so easy for me these days, with arthritis in my fingers.


So how can we make this better and more workable for you Jacque?
What can we do so you are NOT so blasted exhausted and ready to throw in the towel.
I have a hoard of Dove chocolates I could share. A mix of milk and dark. Shall I send you my chocolate stash?
Or do you want to be paid in cases of cat food?

What would make this better?
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It's been almost 2 months of: poking, shooting, switched insulins, adjusting dosages, med's, subq, thermometer up his butt, several doc visits. Everytime he sees me I can see it in his eyes..like he is saying "No More". Me and Tiger are exhausted. We can't keep going on like this. We both want stability, our lives back to somewhat normal.
Tiger is taking so much of my time and energy. No, I will never ever give up on him.
I have 6 other sickly furbabies that need daily meds and constant monitoring.
In the last 6mos we've had 5 pass away and I haven't even had time to mourn them. Bitsy and One Eyed Jack almost took me out, my family had me on suicide watch..cried for days. Breaking my heart. 2 more we almost lost..I was able to revive them.
 
Deb & Wink said:
You got our help Jacque. You've also got some really quick fingers. With those fast responses, I couldn't keep up with them. Speedy replies is not so easy for me these days, with arthritis in my fingers.


So how can we make this better and more workable for you Jacque?
What can we do so you are NOT so blasted exhausted and ready to throw in the towel.
I have a hoard of Dove chocolates I could share. A mix of milk and dark. Shall I send you my chocolate stash?
Or do you want to be paid in cases of cat food?

What would make this better?
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So sorry that you have arthritis. I hope it isn't too painful. I have Osteoporosis in my lower back on the left. Did a scan last year thats how I found out. I get occasional pain and my right leg will get achy feeling.
 
One sick cat that needs such intensive care as Tiger does is emotionally exhausting. Having 6 other sickly furbabies that need you has stretched you past your limits. Plus, you have 13 other cats that look to you for food and love and care.

Is there a friend, neighbor, family that could help you take care of some of the feral outside cats? At least help you get food out for them. Is your husband able and willing to help you with some of the care for your cats?

Is there a cat shelter near you, that has a volunteer willing to help with the outside feral cats, feeding them at least?

Jacque, you are emotionally and physically exhausting yourself. You need to take care of YOU first. If you are overwhelmed, if you don't take care of YOU first, then you won't have the emotional energy to take care of your furbabies, or yourself. You're burning yourself out. I picture you sitting in a corner of a room, hands holding your head, sobbing and sobbing, because you have stretched yourself way beyond your physical and emotional limits.

What do you do for fun? What do you do for relaxation? What do you do for you? What do you do in your "downtime?" (If there even is such a thing in your life right now.) Please, please, please, go do something for yourself for at least 5 minutes. Get out of your home. Clear your mind of everything else. Concentrate on you in the moment. Block out all other thoughts. Look at one object and think of only that one object.

Sounds like you are clinging onto a cliff by your fingertips. Sounds like those fingertips are slipping, the drop is steep and you need to find a way off that cliff right now.

Please, reach out for help. Reach out to 1-800-273-8255. You are not alone. You are not the only one that has needed to call this hotline.
 
Fun??? What's that? Yes, you have described me to a "T". I'm was lucky that I had and still have a support system. Family and my Doc. Med's help to take the edge off, but as you know I can't be on anything that will knock me out. My Doc called everyday when I was close to the edge. Had a bed available at our local nut house if I needed it. My son is a Zen Buddhist and he has taught me so much on mindfullness, breathing etc. When talk everyday. I'm ok for now, take everything day by day.
My down time is around 2am, that's when I'm finally done with all the furbabies. Sleep around 3, if I'm lucky enough to shut my brain off. The hubby has been helping somewhat, but not much he can do. I tried teaching him how to medicate, give subq..he's too nervous and the cats know that. He has been stepping up on the love givin to them, and breaking up cat disagreements. The outside ferals don't take much work and some of my neighbors have started feeding too. Now, my inside semi-ferals(Rescues from Streator, IL) are the ones that need more attention. Still trying to gain there trust.
Thank you so much for your understanding @Deb & Wink and being here for me.
 
Can't turn my brain off at night a lot of times myself. Need meds to help me fall asleep. Doesn't keep me asleep, but it's better than laying there for 2 hours, trying to calm my mind without much success.

Guided meditation does not always work for me, but I do use it sometimes.

Pull on your support network. Pull hard. Lean on them. We all need to reach out for help.
 
That's a nice rising number.
Ok, shoot and monitor him during this middle cycle.
Don't think you've shot that low of a pre-shot with the TID.
He may drop really low, and you'll have to feed him small amounts of food to keep the BG numbers up.

p.s. Stack the 2 pre-shot tests in the same cell and manually color code the cell.
 
Deb & Wink said:
That's a nice rising number.
Ok, shoot and monitor him during this middle cycle.
Don't think you've shot that low of a pre-shot with the TID.
He may drop really low, and you'll have to feed him small amounts of food to keep the BG numbers up.

p.s. Stack the 2 pre-shot tests in the same cell and manually color code the cell.
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Your are correct, first time pre-shot this low with TID. And yeppers I'm on it. lol
 
Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man said:
I think it's time to put him back on the Prozinc. @Chris & China (GA) mentioned that maybe he's ready for it now. So, when and how would I switch him back?
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You can do it in the morning if you want. Also, you don't need to test as much as every 2 hours forever. You actually don't have to test every 2 hours except for once a week for 12 hours (or every 3 hours for 18 hours)

If you switch to ProZinc, you could test at both Pre-shots (of course) and then scatter tests at different points in the AM cycle....maybe 1 day do a +3 and +7, another day do a +4 and +8....of course there may be cycles where you NEED to test more if he's dropping too fast or dropping too low

On the PM cycle, you need to at least get a "before bed" test (usually at least +2 or +3)….depending on what that result is will tell you if you need to plan on testing more later in the cycle or not.

If you get tests "scattered around" on his spreadsheet, that will help you learn more about how Tiger is responding and you'll learn when it's most important to test (for him...ECID) If your "spidey sense" goes off, grab a test....pretty quickly you'll learn when those "spidey senses" really need to be listened to.
 
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