Newly diagnosed: bought Novolin N, vet made me buy ProZinc

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charliewarlie

charliewarlie

Member Since 2020
Hi friends,

My cat Charlie has just been diagnosed on the 24th. He is about 10 years old and I adopted him this past August. I am a college student. When I first got him he was 15 lbs and over the course of the past few months he has been losing weight and now he is 9 lbs. Figured something was up so I took him to the vet and found out he is diabetic. My vet didn't tell me what insulin to buy or give me any instructions to take home with me when she diagnosed him, she wanted me to go in again 2 days later to have me practice injecting him but with saline under her supervision and only then tell me what his treatment would be.

So that night and the next day I did my research and found this website. On a Facebook group I am in for cats I asked about how other people were treating their diabetic cats. I found out about Novolin N and how it has worked for plenty of kitties so I went and bought it from Walmart for $25 along with U-100 syringes and lancets. My grandma is diabetic and she happened to have a spare glucometer for me, an Accu-Chek glucometer, so I gladly took her up on that offer.

I figured it would be just fine for Charlie and I cancelled the follow up appointment with her. So she calls and says how Novolin is dangerous for cats since it's a human insulin, that I should not give him it, that the Accu-Chek is wrong since it's for humans, that the syringes are wrong... Went in and got ProZinc and a box of syringes but paid an arm and a leg for it.

Long story short: should I just start with the ProZinc like she suggested? Does anyone else use an Accu-Chek? What are your experiences with it? For those of you who have had your cats on both ProZinc and Novolin N, do you notice any differences in how your cat responded? Is one "better" than the other? For those of you who have your cats on Novolin N, did your vet suggest that to you and approve it?

edit: Thought I should add also have just gotten a dry food "essence" brand with 86% fish protein and low carb, Charlie won't touch wet food so this is the next best thing I figured
 
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Hi

Can you copy this your post, and re-post it under the Main Forum Health so there will be more of us to answer you and help you?

We have not seen it thus missed helping you. And that's not right.
 
We've had lots of people here use the Accucheck meters, so that's fine. Ideally you have a meter that just needs a small drop of blood. Back in the day before pet meters were invented, everyone here (and a lot of vets) used human meters. Our dosing methods were written with human meters in mind. So you are all set to go there. :) That part your vet is not correct about.

Where your vet is right is the insulin. Humulin N doesn't last very long in cats. They have faster metabolisms that us. All that means is that cats spend a fair bit of time in high numbers because the insulin wears off so early. N can also cause the cat's number to drop fast. Prozinc is a much better choice. Of course, the other two insulins that work well with cats, Lantus and Levemir, are also made for humans. It's not whether the insulin is designed for animals, but rather how long it lasts after the shot.

The (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats suggests Prozinc, Lantus, or Levemir for cats. Novolin N is an option for dogs. It is cheaper, but we can help you find cheaper sources for things like insulin and syringes.
 
Hi and welcome to the FDMB message board. I asked one of the moderators to move your post to Feline Health, so more people could see it.

I know how stressful this can be for someone, to learn that their cat is diabetic. We'll help you all we can. Let me begin, by answering that last set of questions you had.
charliewarlie said:
Long story short: should I just start with the ProZinc like she suggested?
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Yes, start with the Prozinc. Did your vet suggest a starting dose? We usually recommend starting low and going slow with any dose increases.

Our protocol for Prozinc has 2 different starting doses, depending on the diet your cat is eating. You mentioned that your cat Charlie is on a dry food diet. So the starting dose is 1U (one unit).

What dose of the NPH insulin was Charlie on? For how many cycles, for how many days?

Yes, Prozinc is a much better insulin, as your vet suggested. It does cost more than the Novolin N, NPH insulin you purchased at Walmart. But Prozinc has a better duration (lasts longer for the 12 hour dosing cycle), has a later onset (around +2 for most cats), and is safer for cats than the NPH insulin. Yes, I highly recommend the Prozinc over the NPH insulin. The only advantage to the Novolin N insulin, is it's cheap cost. But the big downside to it is the danger it puts your cat in.

NPH insulin drops your cat's BG levels fast and hard. If you use that insulin, you need to feed your cat at LEAST 45 minutes to 60 minutes before you give the insulin injection. That is so the food has time to be digested, and get into the bloodstream and counteract the rapid onset of the NPH insulin.
Does anyone else use an Accu-Chek? What are your experiences with it?
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Human glucometers, or meters are fine for using with a cat. Which model of the Accu-Check meter did your grandma loan you?

What kind of insulin does your grandma use, if she uses insulin?

For those of you who have had your cats on both ProZinc and Novolin N, do you notice any differences in how your cat responded? Is one "better" than the other? For those of you who have your cats on Novolin N, did your vet suggest that to you and approve it?
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Yes, some vets do suggest Novolin N insulin for their clients. One of the main reasons they do that, is because the better insulins for cats, like Prozinc are more expensive.

NPH insulin rarely works more than 6-8 hours in most cats. So you would need to do that test, feed, wait, test, shoot cycle at least every 8 hours. Don't know if your schedule as a student would allow that.

But you have to weigh that low cost of the NPH insulin against your ability to test frequently and manage more intensely when using the NPH type insulins. Plus, there is less risk of a hypoglycemic episode with the Prozinc, since it's onset is later, and the nadir or low is later.

Keep those U100 syringes you purchased to use with the Novolin N insulin. You could use them later with the Prozinc. For now, lets not get too confusing for you, and have you keep using the U40 syringes with the U40 concentration insulin.

My cat Wink went from using NPH insulin to using lantus. He did much better on the longer duration lantus insulin. The prozinc insulin would also have been a good choice. But my cat was a foster cat from my local animal shelter, and they picked the insulins.

A big thanks to Wendy&Neko, the moderator I asked to move this thread to Feline Health.
 
Sorry I didn't see this til later and wasn't able to repost it myself... Thank you so much for moving it to the main forum! Charlie and I thank you @Wendy&Neko :cat:

@Deb & Wink I will go ahead and use the ProZinc then and follow up with my vet. I just bought the Novolin N and had only given him 1 unit last night. Tonight, since I have the ProZinc, I was able to give him that and I gave him 1 unit. With a U-40 syringe. Have not yet tested his BGL but will tomorrow. My vet told me to start with that and then in a few days bump it up to 2. I will start a spread-sheet so I can keep track of his progress! That's good I can use the Accu-Chek, I had just bought strips for it. The model is an Accu-Chek Guide and my grandma isn't on insulin atm but she does take pills that somehow control her blood sugar.

I was on the phone with the vet today and she told me he is also anemic... Not feeling great right now I really really hope it's nothing major and that he doesn't have leukemia or FIV. I really don't want to think about it right now, but I will have to go back into the vet with him to investigate. His old owner's family (she passed) said he apparently tested negative for FIV and leukemia but they don't have record of when it was that he was tested.
 
Just a FYI, we are big fans of increasing slowly here. Cats are sensitive to the smallest changes. A typical increase is by 0.25 units. And yes, it's best to have syringes with half unit markings and you eyeball that. And we increase or decrease based on the BG tests, so good to hear you are going to start that tomorrow.
 
Novolin is not a good choice for cats because their metabolism is much quicker than people. Novolin only lasts about 6-8 hours in cats. ProZinc lasts 10-14 usually. Definitly stick with the ProZinc.
 
charliewarlie said:
Thought I should add also have just gotten a dry food "essence" brand with 86% fish protein and low carb, Charlie won't touch wet food so this is the next best thing I figured
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I do not think that that food is that low in carb
https://essencepetfoods.com/recipes/cce-original/dry/ocean-freshwater/
Thats/essene guaranteed analysis only specifies a min 40% protein. I know the Wysong Epigen 90 has min of 63% protein and De Elsey's Clean Protein has min 59% protein. Those two and Young Again Zero are dry that have less than 10% of calories from carbs.
 
What is your first name? We know your extra sweet diabetic cats name is Charlie, but you have never told us your first name. Would you be willing to share your name with us?

Yes, we do increase the dose in much smaller increments than the vets like to use. We use 0.25U increments for increases. 1U is a nice low starting dose of the Prozinc insulin. I would not increase just yet. Insulin takes some time to see an effect.

Would you please put some information in your User Id Profile for us? It will take about 60 seconds.

Here are some directions for you.
Signature instructions.



Sure would love you to take 60 seconds and put some helpful information in your User Id profile, including the "Signature" portion.

Go to the top right corner of the screen, click on your user name, a drop down list will appear, select "Signature" from that list. Start typing in the text box that appears and be sure to click on the "Save Changes" button at the end of the text box.

Information like your first name, your cat's name age and sex, DX: (diagnosis date), insulin used, meter used (when you get one), food fed, and then the SS (spreadsheet) link when you get that setup are so, so helpful to those of us responding to members. That signature information will be "magically" attached at the end of all your posts. Signature and other user profile information can be updated as needed.

While you are there, editing your user profile, if you could update your profile to include your location, that is helpful also.
 
I didn't forget the link. But most people ignore the links, so I've been putting the instructions directly in the post.
 
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