?AMPS 30.4 - DJOKO - after 6 cycles, back to 1.25U?

Marj & Djoko

Marj & Djoko

Member Since 2020
Hello,

I seems that Djoko needs more insulin now. I will wait the 3-day period as recommended but it seems like his needs in insulin have changed very quickly.
Is it because I gave him too many temptations the other day to increase his BGL when he was low (3.9) after +4?

I tested him randomly around nadir and his values vary between 17-19.

Thank you.

Marjorie
 
Hi Marjorie, Which dosing method are you following? TR or SLGS?

The higher numbers you're seeing now are most likely a bounce. Often kitties will do this after going terribly low - their livers are just responding as it perceived that low as a threat and is still unloading all of it's reserves of glycogen (sugars) into his blood stream....try to ride it out and not get too excited about the numbers you see at AM and PM pre-shots. Those are typically the worst of the day. Best to focus on the mid-cycle readings you're getting.

Please review the dosing methods and make a selection. It'll help us guide you on when to modify the dosage...

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
 
Sue and Luci said:
Hi Marjorie, Which dosing method are you following? TR or SLGS?

The higher numbers you're seeing now are most likely a bounce. Often kitties will do this after going terribly low - their livers are just responding as it perceived that low as a threat and is still unloading all of it's reserves of glycogen (sugars) into his blood stream....try to ride it out and not get too excited about the numbers you see at AM and PM pre-shots. Those are typically the worst of the day. Best to focus on the mid-cycle readings you're getting.

Please review the dosing methods and make a selection. It'll help us guide you on when to modify the dosage...
GS.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
Click to expand...
I made a mistake in my signature. It is supposed to be SLGS.
 
Sue and Luci said:
Hi Marjorie, Which dosing method are you following? TR or SLGS?

The higher numbers you're seeing now are most likely a bounce. Often kitties will do this after going terribly low - their livers are just responding as it perceived that low as a threat and is still unloading all of it's reserves of glycogen (sugars) into his blood stream....try to ride it out and not get too excited about the numbers you see at AM and PM pre-shots. Those are typically the worst of the day. Best to focus on the mid-cycle readings you're getting.

Please review the dosing methods and make a selection. It'll help us guide you on when to modify the dosage...

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
Click to expand...
Your cat seems very well regulated. I just had a look at her chart.
 
We've been at this for quite some time...I do my best to keep her under 200...but she always (mostly) tends to start and end her days above 200. She is truly dependent on her insulin to bring her numbers down.

The excessive hunger and thirst you mentioned in your SS is pretty typical of diabetic cats when they're unregulated. Their bodies are starving because they aren't able to absorb any nutrients from their foods. Let Djoko eat as much as he wants (unless he has a weight problem) so there might be some little bit that will be absorbed when his numbers are down....

It takes time for them to adjust to getting insulin and you're in the early days..and then there's the chronic pancreatitis on top of everything that's not helping either. So for now, just try to get some mid-cycle tests to keep an eye on him. Don't be tempted to jump the gun to increase based on the AM/PM pre-shot tests...it won't help and you may pass right by a good dose. Lantus is a depot drug and it takes time for it to build up to an effective level in their bodies...and when it does you'll see better numbers...and then there's that pancreas of his...it may fire out a few rounds of natural insulin...and then it'll flutter out of commission...because it's trying hard to do what it should...but in it's current state just doesn't have enough beta cells to keep this ship afloat all the time like a normal working pancreas would do...

Try to be patient and stick to your dosing method - count the cycles - last night's shot? Not listed on your SS - so you're working on getting up to 14 cycles before you can increase...

When you really doubt that your efforts make not be working, take a look at @Zelda & Walter - little Walter has come a long way!
 
I looked at the Chart in your signature and cannot find this FF. Is it considered classic, natural? I was hoping it was low carbs. Do you know about these cans in the pictures attached?
Thanks.
 

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Sue and Luci said:
We've been at this for quite some time...I do my best to keep her under 200...but she always (mostly) tends to start and end her days above 200. She is truly dependent on her insulin to bring her numbers down.

The excessive hunger and thirst you mentioned in your SS is pretty typical of diabetic cats when they're unregulated. Their bodies are starving because they aren't able to absorb any nutrients from their foods. Let Djoko eat as much as he wants (unless he has a weight problem) so there might be some little bit that will be absorbed when his numbers are down....

It takes time for them to adjust to getting insulin and you're in the early days..and then there's the chronic pancreatitis on top of everything that's not helping either. So for now, just try to get some mid-cycle tests to keep an eye on him. Don't be tempted to jump the gun to increase based on the AM/PM pre-shot tests...it won't help and you may pass right by a good dose. Lantus is a depot drug and it takes time for it to build up to an effective level in their bodies...and when it does you'll see better numbers...and then there's that pancreas of his...it may fire out a few rounds of natural insulin...and then it'll flutter out of commission...because it's trying hard to do what it should...but in it's current state just doesn't have enough beta cells to keep this ship afloat all the time like a normal working pancreas would do...

Try to be patient and stick to your dosing method - count the cycles - last night's shot? Not listed on your SS - so you're working on getting up to 14 cycles before you can increase...

When you really doubt that your efforts make not be working, take a look at @Zelda & Walter - little Walter has come a long way!
Click to expand...
This makes sense and could explain fluctuations. He has not had any flares up since we started injecting B12. It really helped him. I think moving him from my mother's place may have triggered acute pancreatitis. The diagnostic was "potential pancreatitis" because it is difficult to assess.
 
Sue and Luci said:
No those aren't Naturals...but they are good low carb pate's. I have fed Luci's those on many occasions.

You can most likely find them easier here: https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
Click to expand...
Sue and Luci said:
No those aren't Naturals...but they are good low carb pate's. I have fed Luci's those on many occasions.

You can most likely find them easier here: https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
Click to expand...
Yes I saw this Chart but cannot find them here in Canada the natural or classic. They are high in fat however. I will try to find something after he is done with these patés.
 
Marj & Djoko said:
Yes I saw this Chart but cannot find them here in Canada the natural or classic. They are high in fat however. I will try to find something after he is done with these patés.
Click to expand...

I get them from Amazon. I couldn't get them in the stores here in SW Florida. Variety is somewhat limited here...not sure why. I have a bigger selection when I'm in Michigan in the Summer.
 
Sue and Luci said:
I get them from Amazon. I couldn't get them in the stores here in SW Florida. Variety is somewhat limited here...not sure why. I have a bigger selection when I'm in Michigan in the Summer.
Click to expand...
and you would search "natural" or "classic"? I will try on Amazon as well. Thanks for the tip.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
The Fancy Feast have a different label in Canada. The Pate ones in Canada are the same as the Classic in the US, so the food is fine.

Bounces really teach you patience. It took my girl over a year before she stopped bouncing to reds. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I was very encouraged by last week results. I hope I did not compromise his pancreas by giving him too many temptations. It has probably not helped...
I am not patient by nature but I am working on it :).

Why did I think that I needed to wait only 3 days as opposed to 7 days?
 
Marj & Djoko said:
Why did I think that I needed to wait only 3 days as opposed to 7 days?
Click to expand...
It's 7 days if following SLGS. With TR you wait until the bounce breaks (which can be three days or less) and see where the nadirs land.

Temptations should be out of his system in a day. This is just pure bounce.

I wasn't good with patience when I first started either.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It's 7 days if following SLGS. With TR you wait until the bounce breaks (which can be three days or less) and see where the nadirs land.

Temptations should be out of his system in a day. This is just pure bounce.

I wasn't good with patience when I first started either.
Click to expand...
what happened to your cat at the end?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It's 7 days if following SLGS. With TR you wait until the bounce breaks (which can be three days or less) and see where the nadirs land.

Temptations should be out of his system in a day. This is just pure bounce.

I wasn't good with patience when I first started either.
Click to expand...
what if he does not bounce back? Will this make him sicker?
 
Sue and Luci said:
We've been at this for quite some time...I do my best to keep her under 200...but she always (mostly) tends to start and end her days above 200. She is truly dependent on her insulin to bring her numbers down.

The excessive hunger and thirst you mentioned in your SS is pretty typical of diabetic cats when they're unregulated. Their bodies are starving because they aren't able to absorb any nutrients from their foods. Let Djoko eat as much as he wants (unless he has a weight problem) so there might be some little bit that will be absorbed when his numbers are down....

It takes time for them to adjust to getting insulin and you're in the early days..and then there's the chronic pancreatitis on top of everything that's not helping either. So for now, just try to get some mid-cycle tests to keep an eye on him. Don't be tempted to jump the gun to increase based on the AM/PM pre-shot tests...it won't help and you may pass right by a good dose. Lantus is a depot drug and it takes time for it to build up to an effective level in their bodies...and when it does you'll see better numbers...and then there's that pancreas of his...it may fire out a few rounds of natural insulin...and then it'll flutter out of commission...because it's trying hard to do what it should...but in it's current state just doesn't have enough beta cells to keep this ship afloat all the time like a normal working pancreas would do...

Try to be patient and stick to your dosing method - count the cycles - last night's shot? Not listed on your SS - so you're working on getting up to 14 cycles before you can increase...

When you really doubt that your efforts make not be working, take a look at @Zelda & Walter - little Walter has come a long way!
Click to expand...
Should I try the tight protocal then? It is difficult to see him like that. I can't imagine he will spend an entire week in that condition.
 
Be patient, sometimes cats go high just before they break the bounce and come down. It won't take him a week to get over the bounce. He should get over it tonight or tomorrow.

The choice of TR or SLGS is personal preference. TR requires feeding all low carb wet or raw food, as well as getting tests before each shot and one other in each cycle. The reduction point is also lower, so you have to be comfortable seeing lower numbers.
Marj & Djoko said:
what happened to your cat at the end?
Click to expand...
Neko was diabetic due to a secondary endocrine condition call acromegaly. It is caused by a benign pituitary tumour that sends out excess growth hormone. She survived that condition for over 5 years, but in the end she had a lot going on - heart disease, kidney disease, small cell lymphoma, all probably caused by the acromegaly.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Be patient, sometimes cats go high just before they break the bounce and come down. It won't take him a week to get over the bounce. He should get over it tonight or tomorrow.

The choice of TR or SLGS is personal preference. TR requires feeding all low carb wet or raw food, as well as getting tests before each shot and one other in each cycle. The reduction point is also lower, so you have to be comfortable seeing lower numbers.

Neko was diabetic due to a secondary endocrine condition call acromegaly. It is caused by a benign pituitary tumour that sends out excess growth hormone. She survived that condition for over 5 years, but in the end she had a lot going on - heart disease, kidney disease, small cell lymphoma, all probably caused by the acromegaly.
Click to expand...
I am sorry.
 
That is the frustration of a bouncy cat. You have to take a long view of the situation-- these day-long (or even two-, or three-day-long) bounces are just distractions.

He really will come down from this, I promise.
 
Try to get a before bed test in tonight. He is due to get over the bounce. Some cats like to go really high before diving low.

And get a ketone test if you can.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Try to get a before bed test in tonight. He is due to get over the bounce. Some cats like to go really high before diving low.

And get a ketone test if you can.
Click to expand...
Ok I will. He drinks a lot of water tonight. He was hungrier this afternoon (ate half of a can around 4h30) and ate a bit before shot (8PM). I hope his numbers will go lower so that he can find his appetite back.

Is it possible that he became insulin resistant for couple of days? Today was so flat. I don't feel like the shot did anything.
Thank you for helping Djoko.
 
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