Stalling- please help. Djoko's uncontrolled diabetes

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I know it is fine at this number but he drops so quickly. I am very nervous. I will give him some teaspoons. Will someone be around during the night?
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
That is still a safe number. Give a couple tsps of his low carb food. Can you test again in an hour or two?
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Yes. I am too nervous. I am not going to bed. I gave him three teaspoon of Fancy Feast. Is it ok?

Imagine if I was not there. That means I could never give him a shot if he is at 13.5 pre shot?
See the SS, he started today at almost 28, and dropped to 9.7 (or maybe lower). +8 he had dropped almost 20. That means I have to monitor him until 4-5 AM (here it is 11h18 PM) minimum, correct?
 
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If push comes to shove, you can rub syrup or honey on his gums.....the simple sugars are absorbed very quickly from the mucous membranes.

But don't borrow trouble.....2 teaspoons should help slow him down a little and he'd still have a long way to fall before he'd be in danger

Let's see where he is at +4
 
Marj said:
Don't you think that he dropped very quickly for the beginning of the cycle?
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With Lantus and after food the onset drop can start after 1,5 hours. At least by 2 hours after it's good if the bg goes down. It is that he made such a steep fast drop that is of course cause for alertness.
 
He's still fine....that's 121

Will he eat a little bit more for you? A lot of cats like parmesan cheese...might try sprinkling a little on top of his food if he's not interested
 
I do not have parmesan anymore. I gave him some temptations (9-10 pieces) and gave him m/d glucose management dry food (around 10 pieces). He does not want to eat more. I am under the impression that his nadir occurs later than +6.

He does not want to eat wet food. He does not seem that hungry. As mentioned previously, he ate a lot for dinner and gave him couple tsp at 2+ and 3+.

What will happen when we hit his nadir?
 
Marj said:
I do not have parmesan anymore. I gave him some temptations (9-10 pieces) and gave him m/d glucose management dry food (around 10 pieces). He does not want to eat more. I am under the impression that his nadir occurs later than 6.

He does not want to eat wet food. He does not seem that hungry. As mentioned previously, he ate a lot for dinner and gave him couple tsp at 2+ and 3+.

What will happen when we hit his nadir?
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Well done!

If you want to be ready for too low numbers, you can take 1,5 teaspoon sugar in a glass of water and stir it out so it is resolved. And if you have the plastic feeding syringes you draw up sugar water in it, to give him.
 
Sometimes Lantus can give a flat curve all day for up to 12 hours. Simba and I had problems with that in the beginning, sometimes getting stuck for 12 hours at so high as 19.

We've been through the hypos too. The m/d dry food is what worked for Simba too.
 
Ann & Scatcats said:
Sometimes Lantus can give a flat curve all day for up to 12 hours. Simba and I had problems with that in the beginning, sometimes getting stuck for 12 hours at so high as 19.

We've been through the hypos too. The m/d dry food is what worked for Simba too.
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When he is at 19, I am happy. He can be as high as 37. In one day, he passed from 34 to 9.7.

So he was able to eat more so I added 15 pieces of m/d to the rest. So he basically 10 temptations (this is not quality food but contains carbs) and 25 pieces of m/d dry food. I hope +5 won't be too low after all that.

You suggest putting the syrop in the water instead of rubbing it on the gums? May I ask why?

Will you be around at +5? It is in 20 minutes.
 
Marj said:
When he is at 19, I am happy. He can be as high as 37. In one day, he passed from 34 to 9.7.

So he was able to eat more so I added 15 pieces of m/d to the rest. So he basically 10 temptations (this is not quality food but contains carbs) and 25 pieces of m/d dry food. I hope +5 won't be too low after all that.

You suggest putting the syrop in the water instead of rubbing it on the gums? May I ask why?

Will you be around at +5? It is in 20 minutes.
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No, not syrup. Ordinary normal natural white sugar. :)

I'll be here.
 
Marj said:
Were you able to get a normal curve?
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It's an Endurance test. Simba was practically dying and we also used the Fructosamine test to manage. It was as high as 800 and that is close to dying. My first aim was to stop that and to first get down in bg numbers so we first got a Fructosamine test at 500. And from 500 to the normal range 350 for the Fructosamine. It took over 4 years. But the curves are never the same from day to day, there is always changes in one way or another.
 
He is at 6.9 and very angry to get his ears poked last that. Very easy going normally but he wants to kill me. So do I keep feeding him or I wait?
 
Ann & Scatcats said:
It's an Endurance test. Simba was practically dying and we also used the Fructosamine test to manage. It was as high as 800 and that is close to dying. My first aim was to stop that and to first get down in bg numbers so we first got a Fructosamine test at 500. And from 500 to the normal range 350 for the Fructosamine. It took over 4 years. But the curves are never the same from day to day, there is always changes in one way or another.
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Do you test him everyday still?
 
Marj said:
He is at 6.9 and very angry to get his ears poked last that. Very easy going normally but he wants to kill me. So do I keep feeding him or I wait?
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Yes give him something to eat. 6.7 and 6.9 for an hour is a good number. Both of you must be very tired now. So leave a small handful of m/d dry food out for him and both of you can try to get some sleep too.
 
Marj said:
It is a good question. I am not sure what to do. It will depend on next two results. Any suggestions?
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Yes. I would get the +6 hour and if it is in the blue range, then only the +8 hour.
Those two will show what the +7 was then. Few cats can stand to be tested every hour for 12 long hours.

Since I have to sleep myself. I live on the other side of the Atlantic in Sweden :cat:
 
Marje, Djoko is in completely safe numbers at the moment. There's is no need to worry. He has only dropped from 243 to 124 in 5 hours. And he has only dropped 3 points in the last hour. That is good. That is a lovely cycle.
The more he is in the lower numbers the less he will bounce.
 
Please go to sleep. Thank you very much for having stayed around. It is a lovely cycle but just because I gave him a lot of temptations...This is not a normal cycle.
because I have interfered with the results. This shows me that giving him 1.5U when he is at 13.5 is too low unless I stick around and feed him.
Anyway.
Good night and again thank you very much!
M
 
BTW you may not know temptations in Sweden but its a treat with high carbs for cat. I tricked the results in a way.
Hope Coronavirus does not hit too much there!
 
Marj said:
It is a lovely cycle but just because I gave him a lot of temptations...This is not a normal cycle.
because I have interfered with the results.
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You're going to need to learn to trust yourself and relax. Lantus works best when it's given at lower numbers. I know that you're thinking "he went from 20 to 10! If I give him the same dose when he's at 10, he'll drop to zero!!"

It doesn't work that way.

It may really help for you to take some time and read some other posts in the Lantus forum as well as looking at other's spreadsheets. (Feel free to look at China's....she was an excellent example of "shooting low to stay low")
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
You're going to need to learn to trust yourself and relax. Lantus works best when it's given at lower numbers. I know that you're thinking "he went from 20 to 10! If I give him the same dose when he's at 10, he'll drop to zero!!"

It doesn't work that way.

It may really help for you to take some time and read some other posts in the Lantus forum as well as looking at other's spreadsheets. (Feel free to look at China's....she was an excellent example of "shooting low to stay low")
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I know. Or trust the cat and his lower numbers. I just don't know what to do. Did I over feed him? The food I gave him is described in his SS.
I will definitively do more reading and look at other members' ss.
Did China experience very steep drop? What did you think of his drop at +3?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
You're going to need to learn to trust yourself and relax. Lantus works best when it's given at lower numbers. I know that you're thinking "he went from 20 to 10! If I give him the same dose when he's at 10, he'll drop to zero!!"

It doesn't work that way.

It may really help for you to take some time and read some other posts in the Lantus forum as well as looking at other's spreadsheets. (Feel free to look at China's....she was an excellent example of "shooting low to stay low")
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I have just looked at China' SS. You shoot low but she does not seem to experience high drops or high ups. Was it always like that?
 
Djoko surprises me again with a 9.8 PMPS! He was at 30.7 this morning for AMPS. I don't know if he went lower than that. He was starving around 5-6 PM but thought it was because the insulin was wearing off and he was hyper again. I gave him little snacks here and there. He did not show signs of hypo except being hungry. He is also hungry when hyper so cannot seem to understand what is his BGL based on simple observations.
I will go have dinner and test him again once I am back. Oh Djoko!
 
Marj you would have been safe to have given the insulin at PMPS with a BG of 9.8 (176).
That is a safe number to give insulin.
With a lower preshot like 9.8 (176) he is not going to drop as far or as fast as if you give the insulin with a preshot of 28 (504).
If you shoot at say 9.8 (176) the drop will be much less than if you shot a preshot of 28 (504). You would still need to keep testing.

What is happening at the moment is Djoko is having a preshot of around 504 (28) and he is dropping low quickly and then bouncing up high again.
What I would like to see you doing is when you get a high preshot number, is to give the insulin and then test every 2 hours and see how fast the BG is dropping. We need to slow the fast drop down so that he doesn't keep bouncing high then low then high etc.
You can help with this by giving some food during the first half of the cycle to slow down the drop. Do you understand what I mean?
 
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