3/1 Cleo AMPS=452 We have labs & diagnosis

The Dx of acromegaly is a hard one to swallow, that's for sure. Freckles was Dx a few weeks ago along with IAA. She doesn't have any outward symptoms either except the BG numbers and voracious appetite. We have switched to Levemir from Lantus since Freckles was starting to get irritated by the injection. We won't be doing the radiation or surgery. I'm trying to find a vet who will prescribe cabergoline so at least I can get an idea of price and see if that is an option. My vet thought I needed to get an MRI before he would prescribe cabergoline - he's misinformed. Although Freckles' numbers are crazy high, we continue to increase her insulin as glucose is still showing up in her urine. We changed the food to a lower phosphorus and had a dental done (3 extractions).

I started with Alphatrak but switched to a human meter since most of the information on this site is based on using a human meter. Alphatrak strips were super expensive and not readily accessible. I didn't see any benefit in using the Alphatrak strips.

Finding a vet to script cabergoline was the hard part. We had consults with 4 vets. I did find out current one and she admitted she knew nothing about it but was willing to try it. Once she saw Ollie and examined her, she saw what I was talking about regarding the symptoms. she had no problem trying it, as it was her last option. I gave her copies of studies. She asked what goals I expected from it. My goals are to reduce symptoms which she had many, make her comfortable and hopefully reduce amount of insulin needed. I do not expect remission. I will give it a 1 yr trial then we can re-evaluate. We are in year 2 of it. I get the suspension from Wedgewood pharmacy, they raised their prices this year. I get a 33 day supply and it costs $125.50 plus $8 shipping.
 
I read cabergoline can mess up the GI tract. Cleo has what looks like IBD. She has spells when she eats a different food, she's messed up for a couple days, runny poops, lethargic and unhappy. I'd be afraid this stuff would mess her up. But I'd like to know more about it so I can discuss w/ Dr.
 
I read cabergoline can mess up the GI tract. Cleo has what looks like IBD. She has spells when she eats a different food, she's messed up for a couple days, runny poops, lethargic and unhappy. I'd be afraid this stuff would mess her up. But I'd like to know more about it so I can discuss w/ Dr.

The only reported side effect is GI upset for 3 days and it resolves on its own. Ollie did not have any. I don't know what it can do if IBD is in the picture. I don't remember any mentions in the studies. Maybe it would help it, who knows.
 
Hi Chris - just wanted to chime in and say hello from me and Rocket, a fellow acro kitty. Sorry to hear about the diagnosis, but it sounds like Cleo is in the best place she can be with you and your wife. :) We chose to have Rocket treated with SRT in August of last year (about six weeks after his diagnosis). The procedure wasn't hard on him, other than having five sessions of anesthesia of course. While not a cure, his insulin dose has decreased from around 13U at the time of treatment to approx. 3U this week (he just had what looks like a decent drop in insulin needs a few days ago which we're still adjusting to). Most importantly, he is a much happier kitty, almost completely back to his old self, and his neuropathy has improved so much!
 
Hi Chris, I've been away from the board for a few days and just read that the tests came back and that you now have Cleo's diagnosis. So sorry to hear your news, but I know how much help you will get from Wendy, Sandy, Paula, Judy, Kes, and others who have had to come to grips with acro and IAA. Thinking good thoughts for Cleo as you move ahead on this new path.
 
Thank you all! Right now, we're not going to pursue SRT. We just think all the anesthesia & stress + the risk of the radiation causing other issues, we don't think it's worth it. Money is NOT this issue here, although we think it's crazy to put that much money into a pet that's 10 y.o. and might still come down w/ other problems. Don't get me wrong, we love this little cat, but it seems like it might just continue to spiral after a treatment, and then she might need another treatment for something else, plus lots of other medications etc. We are meeting w/ the dr. next week and will echo these thoughts to her. Maybe she will try to sell us on what great results they get and that Cleo is a good candidate etc. And maybe we will cave and decide to do it--- I don't know. This is all so upsetting for all the obvious reasons. I don't want to see the animal suffer and we want her to have a good quality of life while she still can, but right now we're don't know what to expect. Letting her continue to deteriorate seems very callous also and then we'd have to put her down, which would just be a sad ending to good pet's life, but, from what we've heard from other friends when they dump a lot of medical treatment into their pet and they still have to be euthanized, it just sounds like prolonged agony.
So the common conservative treatment is Option 1- high doses of insulin to combat the growth hormone. But how long can that last and does it gives a cat a decent life and not feel bad? What if she continues w/ high BG#s? Do you just keep shooting more? Is there a way to possibly change to a more effective insulin?

Still have some things to consider. Help us out here. :(
 
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from what we've heard from other friends when they dump a lot of medical treatment into their pet and they still have to be euthanized, it just sounds like prolonged agony.
So the common conservative treatment is Option 1- high doses of insulin to combat the growth hormone. But how long can that last and does it gives a cat a decent life and not feel bad? What if she continues w/ high BG#s? Do you just keep shooting more? Is there a way to possibly change to a more effective insulin?
SRT tends to give them much better quality of life for a period of time. That time really varies. When I went to CSU, they said the average length of time for cats after SRT was two years, but that also included quite a few that passed from other things. Of the 3 other cats that had SRT around the time I did, two got cancer, the other kidney disease - which was probably a bi-product of acromegaly, but delayed a few years. Neko had 4 + years. Only the last half year did things go south.

How much insulin an acrocat needs also varies all over the place. I have seen a dose of almost 100 units, though that it uncommon. The majority are less than 30 units, some single digits. It depends on the growth hormone output - which is why something like cabergoline, which limits growth hormone output, can help, and in the case of three lucky cats here, went off insulin. I know you said you aren't factoring in cost, but that's a lot of insulin. Those high doses also mean a really high output of growth hormone and the damaging side effects from that. The tumour can pulse up and down, and insulin needs can climb and drop.

As for how long with just giving insulin as needed, again hard to say. We just had one cat here who was up to 55 units go off of insulin last month, and several years after diagnosis. That is rare. Lily was very well regulated and did not suffer from time above renal threshold, which is damaging to kidneys. I think what I am saying is that it's hard to predict. We have also seen diabetic cats go into remission, then come back and be tested as acromegalic yeara later. Were they acro the first time as diabetics? Who knows, they weren't tested then. It's though the diabetes is a later stage of acromegaly, which Cleo has likely had for a while.

I too have known people who have put a lot of money into pets for very short term reward. The thing about acromegaly, it's a slower disease than most cancers. The tumour itself is not often the cause of death, but rather the side effects of excess growth hormone.

Levemir is a better insulin at higher doses - seems to have a bit better duration. But it won't be night and day better than Lantus for Cleo's numbers. Some people add a second or bolus insulin on top of the Levemir or Lantus.
 
My basic (not the diagnosing vet) vet said she'd like to see her stay around 250 at best knowing going back to normal is unlikely. She told us that back in Sept. '19. I've never hit below 300 since starting testing in Dec. But the whole time we were ramping up by 2U per day, about every 4 weeks or so, nothing improved. It seemed like a slow rise in dosage while no improvement in #'s. Now we're up to 7U 2xday. I think we should ramp up faster- like every week we don't improve much, add another unit am & pm. Is that too fast of a ramp up? It seems we are going at this oh so slowly while the cat deteriorates. She cries for food almost every 2 hrs or so, and seems to be an habitual eater. She's always been a big eater tho. Is that because she's not getting the energy from her food? The hind leg neuropathy isn't bad, but she walks a little wobbly and her muscles don't seem full and toned. The urination has gone way down since we changed to canned food so that's good. I haven't tested for urine glucose tho. Here I am, playing dr again! I guess I should just chill until our appt on Thursday.
 
Is that too fast of a ramp up?
For you, yes, unless you can change the frequency with which you test. If you can test before each shot and one other each cycle, for a total of four a day, we can help you increase more often. And by the way, the way Lantus works she won’t stay at 250, but likely spend only some time there before going up again. My goal with Neko was almost all of her time below 250, but 8 tested more and could so so safely. I wanted her below renal threshold as much as possible. Acromegaly is hard enough on kidneys. Many vets want cats higher because they aren’t used to clients who home test.

The hunger is probably causes by two reasons. One is the growth hormones, think appetite of growing teenager boys. I had to lock down any food in my kitchen. Second, her numbers are so high she isn’t getting nutrition into her cells.
 
Thank you all! Right now, we're not going to pursue SRT. We just think all the anesthesia & stress + the risk of the radiation causing other issues, we don't think it's worth it. Money is NOT this issue here, although we think it's crazy to put that much money into a pet that's 10 y.o. and might still come down w/ other problems...

Still have some things to consider. Help us out here. :(

I realize this is a very personal decision -- we agonized over it for a good long while. I'm only answering from personal experience (and since you asked for help :) ) - one of the reasons we did decide to go with SRT is because Rocket was 10 at the time of diagnosis. My husband and I had both had cats previously who lived to be over 19 years old, so for us, to have Rocket diagnosed at "only" 10 was heartbreakingly sad. Rocket, before his diabetes diagnosis, was the happiest, most mischievous, playful little guy I had known, and I just felt that he deserved more time. Budget-wise... we are definitely not rich, but we don't have kids or much debt, and we got a little help from family too, so while it wasn't cheap, it was doable.

All that said, Rocket has been a little bumpy on the road down - he's even asking for a dose decrease as we speak. So he does require a decent amount of testing to ensure we always have his insulin dose in the right range. But, every cat is different, and you can always go a little conservative with dosing if necessary.

Oh! As for side effects, etc. -- I should add that we were fortunate to have an excellent radiation oncologist (Dr. Bommarito in southern CA) - our regular vet said he was the best in the country.

Anyway I know it's a tough decision. Best of luck with your meeting w/ the doctor. Give Cleo a hug for me!! :bighug:
 
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