What are your vet cost cause I feel like I'm getting pinched.

[Tidus]

Hello, just found out my cat has diabetes this week and have been back n' forth to the vet 3 times this week. One for the blood work, one to show me how to do the injection and today I have to bring him in for his first injection under observation cause they're not sure how he'll react to the insulin and suggested I let them do it there. Since I'll be at work and family will be in and out all day. So he'll be there for a few hours I guess.

Insulin PZI U40 10mL $138
Syringes U40 .5mL 29Gx0.6in 100ct $60

Blood work / glucose check / heart worm check / urine sample - $578

Prescription m/d food $50 for 24 cans (this one I know I got bamboozled)

No idea how much it's going to cost to keep him there all morning while they observe him during his first injection but my wallet took a beating this week and the little guy definitely had a rough week as well. Wondering if pet health insurance my help? Thanks for any replies.

(Edit: I live south of Los Angeles)

 

[SullivansDad]

Insulin: not sure; we started with Vetsulin which was around $55 for the vial, now on Lantus which was $340.

Syringes: that seems very high. We got 100 syringes for $9 (from our local grocery store pharmacy).

Testing: that's about twice what my current vet charges (and about 3 times higher than what our old vet charged). Heck, it didn't even cost that much for 4 nights of hospitalization with 24-hour supervision at our old vet.

Those are high prices, but the area and level of care do come into play. Our old vet was in a rural area and very cheap. New one is pricier (but closer and better).

 

[Diana&Tom]

Hi, welcome to FDMB, we're glad you're here as you'll get all the help and advice you need for treating every aspect of FD.

Vets are expensive and there's no short-cutting some things such as essential tests that can only be done there. But on an ongoing basis you should be able to source supplies at much better prices than a vet's. I'm not sure where you are in the world, sounds like the US or Canada? - there are people here that can point you in the direction of reputable websites where you'll be able to buy the necessary items without breaking the bank.

Not sure if you're asking if it would help to take out a pet insurance policy if you haven't already, or if you have an existing policy and are wondering if you could claim on that? The answer to the first is that it's almost certainly too late to take out a new policy and hope to claim on it, as most insurers will stipulate no pre-existing conditions. The answer to the second is that you'd have to check the policy and ring the insurers to ask what's covered... some policies will cover the initial diagnostic tests and ongoing supplies for a limited period of time, eg a year, other (more expensive) policies may give whole life cover.

Don't despair! Once you've got these preliminary tests etc done you should be able to manage at home... stick around here, read as much as you can, ask questions, and it should soon fall into place. Good luck!

 

[Tidus]

Those are high prices, but the area and level of care do come into play. Our old vet was in a rural area and very cheap. New one is pricier (but closer and better).

Yeah I guess that's true, I live south of LA. But even that feels a bit high. I would have liked to shop around for lower prices of course but feeling like this is an emergency situation I just said ok to literally everything they suggested.

 

[Tidus]

Don't despair! Once you've got these preliminary tests etc done you should be able to manage at home... stick around here, read as much as you can, ask questions, and it should soon fall into place. Good luck!

Thank you I figured this should be the worst of it... hopefully and things get easier from here. I didn't think about the pre-existing condition thing. Geez that's sad they also do that to animals too.

I live south of LA which everything is expensive here. Just feels even high for this area. I already did some reading around here and saw suggestions for setting up your own glucose readings so I'll look into that. This site has been very helpful.

 

[Juls and Billy]

Our initial costs were very similar to yours, but ongoing expenses have been much easier to handle. We gave the prescription food back to the vet. You should be able to get a refund for unopened cans if you decide to go with a different food choice. Since out initial visit, the only thing we've been back to the vet for is a fructosamine test. We do BGL testing and curves at home. Our vet wanted us to bring Billy in for an all day curve at first, but we said no. We knew it would be more accurate at home, since if he was at the vet, he would be stressed and wouldn't eat. There are many ways to cut costs safely while treating feline diabetes. Food choices, ordering insulin from Canada, using a human meter with cheaper test strips, getting supplies like syringes from a pharmacy instead of the vet's office, are some of the things you can do.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

You can easily refuse the "prescription" food. There are far better quality foods at less cost than what the vet is selling. Frankly, Fancy Feast Classics are what many people here feed their kitties. You can buy a gourmet cat food that is lower in carbohydrates and less expensive than M/D. Take a look at the information on this page on feline nutrition to learn more about food and this is a food chart you may find helpful. You want foods that are less than 10% carb. And, preferably, canned cat food. The dry stuff is generally very high in carbs.

We are very big fans of home testing. It saves you going to the vet for curves. More importantly, it is the best way possible to insure your cat is safe. It gives you a great deal of control over managing your kitty's diabetes. We have lots of resources to help you to lean how to home test. Let us know when you're ready.

Also, let us know if your have questions. We're here to help.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

All supplies you buy at the vet will be marked up in price. One of the cheapest and best places I’ve found for buying Prozinc is chewy.com where it’s $106. They also have syringes for cheaper, as does ADW online. Unfortunately the syringes you need for u40 pet insulins are more expensive than the u100 syringes for human insulins There is a conversion for using u100 syringes with your Prozinc, if you’d like to mess around with that.

The cost for all the tests does seem high, but that’s going to vary by location and specific vets. I live in a fairly cheap state, so the vet costs here tend to be lower

 

[Sam & Esse]

Hi

I'm in north LA county First thing I wanted to address are those syringes...

Syringes U40 .5mL 29Gx0.6in 100ct $60

Urgh. If they're .5mL, they're going to make dosing so much harder for you. You need U40 3/10cc needles with half unit markings for more accurate dosing. A shame you aren't a bit closer; I have two extra boxes from when Sam was first on Prozinc. If you know anyone near the AV, I'd be happy to hand them off no charge Otherwise, go to ADW to order new syringes. Mine are by Carepoint VET, but there are a couple of U40 options available there -- for a lot less money. They also have really good prices for sharps containers. When mine are full, I drop them off at the Kaiser drop box outside their medical buildings. I like free disposal lol!

Office visits at my vet are $45, and comprehensive labs are right at $200; prices went up this year Urinalysis can be tacked on to the labs for about $60 -- but I have no idea on current heartworm testing. A lot of people choose the Relion brand glucose meters available at Walmart because of their pocket-friendly price and ease of buying strips I couldn't go that route because all the local Walmarts are usually out of strips, whether their diabetic supplies are on the shelf, locked in a case, or behind the pharmacy counter I don't know if you'll have that problem where you're at. Hopefully not!

I'd say your vet did take a bit of advantage; the one that diagnosed Sam certainly did That's why I sent out questionnaires to most of the local vets, then chose the one that would best fit the way I treated Sam's diabetes. Now that there is a diabetes diagnoses, any pet insurance you manage to buy more than likely won't cover it. ...Or anything that they can remotely tie to diabetes.

Best of luck to you both! And best of luck with the vet visit today!

 

[Larry and Kitties]

The insulin price is about normal for ProZinc, which is U40 PZI insulin.
The syringe price is two high. You can get U40 syringes on the internet for less than 1/2 that price. I do not know if a script is required, it depends upon you state. You can also use human U100 syringes that costs a lot less. You need a conversion
The blood/urine tests are high but that depends upon where you live.
Prescription ius a good deal but you do nmot have to use prescription food. Chewy's charges $52
https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-pl...c_sr23ctMzqdeK9dxkOfQoI5T03M9AAoaAtB0EALw_wcB

 

[Tidus]

You can easily refuse the "prescription" food. There are far better quality foods at less cost than what the vet is selling. Frankly, Fancy Feast Classics are what many people here feed their kitties. You can buy a gourmet cat food that is lower in carbohydrates and less expensive than M/D. Take a look at the information on this page on feline nutrition to learn more about food and this is a food chart you may find helpful. You want foods that are less than 10% carb. And, preferably, canned cat food. The dry stuff is generally very high in carbs.

We are very big fans of home testing. It saves you going to the vet for curves. More importantly, it is the best way possible to insure your cat is safe. It gives you a great deal of control over managing your kitty's diabetes. We have lots of resources to help you to lean how to home test. Let us know when you're ready.

Also, let us know if your have questions. We're here to help.

Really? I had a suspicion that it looks like typical cat food. The info on the can about crude fat, protein, carbs and everything wasn't really much different than his fancy feast classic cans. Maybe I'll do half and half of his favorite flavors and see how that goes. Thanks for that info.

Hi

I'd say your vet did take a bit of advantage; the one that diagnosed Sam certainly did That's why I sent out questionnaires to most of the local vets, then chose the one that would best fit the way I treated Sam's diabetes. Now that there is a diabetes diagnoses, any pet insurance you manage to buy more than likely won't cover it. ...Or anything that they can remotely tie to diabetes.

Best of luck to you both! And best of luck with the vet visit today!

Yeah it feels that way. I appreciate the offer on the syringes, they have him on 1.0 injects twice a day, I'll give these ones a try and if they're difficult to use I'll look into getting those. He reacted to insulin well, he's home finally. Got to do a lot of reading on this stuff I don't know much of anything about diabetes. Thanks for all the suggestions I was super nervous at first about hearing all this at the vet. Got dizzy actually at one point maybe a mild panic attack... my kitty is handling this better than I am

But the info on here really helps.

 

[Deb & Wink]

For your reading pleasure. Dear Mom/Dad (letter from your kitty)

 

[Tidus]

For your reading pleasure. Dear Mom/Dad (letter from your kitty)

The calming down is a must yes. I guess I'm lucky on the behavior part though my cat literally follows me around the entire house and sleeps on my chest every night so it should be easy to notice any problems since he's under my nose all the time. I did feel a little embarrassed about the panic attack, I don't think it was a stress induced one. I have aichmophobia so... yeah this is definitely a test to get over my fears. Just watching them get the injection made me sweat and go into tunnel vision. I've calmed down a bit after seeing him react well to the insulin he definitely stopped urinating as much, not drinking tons of water all day anymore and very affectionate today so that's all good signs he's feeling better already. I know it's helping him so I'm not freaking out about giving him his injection anymore.


I do have one question, they said draw the syringe back a little before pushing in the insulin to check to make sure you don't draw blood? If I pull back what am I pulling into the syringe if it isn't blood?

 

[zzyzzx]

I get my syringes in a box of 100 for $12.58 at Walmart. A vial of U100 insulin is $25 at Walmart too, and no prescription for either one. Specifically humilin N insulin. Been using it on my cat for 6 years now.

 

[Sam & Esse]

I do have one question, they said draw the syringe back a little before pushing in the insulin to check to make sure you don't draw blood? If I pull back what am I pulling into the syringe if it isn't blood?

I never bothered pulling back; there's really not much chance of striking a vein that might be a problem. Most people don't, because the added fussing and time (and maybe pain/pressure) tends to upset a cat much more than the quick shot. I trust Sam to let me know if I've poked the needle somewhere I shouldn't before I actually push the plunger down. --Plus, from one of the few people I read about that was pulling back, there were a few times they drew back capillary blood, which is pretty much meaningless No harm, no foul as I understand it.

Everyone here at FDMB is very home test oriented. And for good reason. My old vet wanted to start Sam on 2u BID, and I argued the dosage down to 1u. If you take a glance at Sam's spreadsheet for 2017 (link in my signature) you can see that the morning after his first dose, his blood glucose was 97 -- then after stalling, was 69. If I'd blindly injected Sam with another 1u, there's a good chance it would have killed him. There's a lot of members with similar stories, and some with very tragic outcomes. Please pick up a glucose monitor as soon as you can There's lots of tips and tricks here to help you get started testing.

Is Tidus your cat's name? I'm glad to hear that there's already been a positive response; we all know about gigantic pees

 

[Tidus]

I never bothered pulling back; there's really not much chance of striking a vein that might be a problem. Most people don't, because the added fussing and time (and maybe pain/pressure) tends to upset a cat much more than the quick shot. I trust Sam to let me know if I've poked the needle somewhere I shouldn't before I actually push the plunger down. --Plus, from one of the few people I read about that was pulling back, there were a few times they drew back capillary blood, which is pretty much meaningless No harm, no foul as I understand it.

Everyone here at FDMB is very home test oriented. And for good reason. My old vet wanted to start Sam on 2u BID, and I argued the dosage down to 1u. If you take a glance at Sam's spreadsheet for 2017 (link in my signature) you can see that the morning after his first dose, his blood glucose was 97 -- then after stalling, was 69. If I'd blindly injected Sam with another 1u, there's a good chance it would have killed him. There's a lot of members with similar stories, and some with very tragic outcomes. Please pick up a glucose monitor as soon as you can There's lots of tips and tricks here to help you get started testing.

Is Tidus your cat's name? I'm glad to hear that there's already been a positive response; we all know about gigantic pees

Yeah his name is Tidus. Blindly injecting is what I'm worried about. The alphatrak is in the mail and should be here soon. Luckily the vet checked his level throughout the day and it went from 500 to 160 then up to 220 when I picked him up so they said the bouncing should be fine for tonight they doubt it will drop below 80. I'm not so sure about the morning though. I tried to talk my way into a single injection of 1.0 a day but no luck.

 

[Sam & Esse]

Yeah his name is Tidus.

Welcome to you and extra-sweet Tidus! (By any chance was he named from FFX?)

The alphatrak is in the mail and should be here soon. Luckily the vet checked his level throughout the day and it went from 500 to 160 then up to 220 when I picked him up so they said the bouncing should be fine for tonight they doubt it will drop below 80. I'm not so sure about the morning though. I tried to talk my way into a single injection of 1.0 a day but no luck.

I'm so glad to hear you're getting the AT2 soon! But wow! That was quite a response Tidus had to the 1u dose today! I can see why the vet thinks he'll bounce, but that can't always be counted on. I'm tempted to think the starting dose of 1u is too high. You might want to try a .5u dose BID. That's where the syringes with half unit markings come in handy Especially since dosing is usually increased and decreased by .25u. Insulin works best dosed twice a day in cats, because their metabolisms are so fast/high.

If you haven't been there already, there's lots of good information in the Prozinc/PZI ISG found here. To get you started there's a beginner's guide here and dosing guidelines here.

It's good that Tidus sleeps with you. Check tonight as you can that his ears and paws stay relatively warm, and that he doesn't become hard to rouse. If Tidus shows any signs of hypo, please post for help immediately! Hypo links, just in case. The first night after insulin is a tough one.

 

[Tidus]

Welcome to you and extra-sweet Tidus! (By any chance was he named from FFX?)

Yes he is no one gets that reference usually! We chose two names Cait was my suggestion if it was a girl and wife went with Tidus for boy. Not my favorite character from FF but it also means sun in Japanese so that fits lol.

But yeah I'm debating on giving him a half injection tonight since I can't read his blood yet. 1.0 twice a day wouldn't scare me so much if I had the alphatrak. But it's coming in the mail.

 

[Deb & Wink]

I get my syringes in a box of 100 for $12.58 at Walmart. A vial of U100 insulin is $25 at Walmart too, and no prescription for either one. Specifically humilin N insulin. Been using it on my cat for 6 years now.

@zzyzzx the NPH insulins are not recommended for cats. They do not last long enough, 6-8 hours, they drop the BG (blood glucose) levels like a rock, risk of hypoglycemia is much higher, very difficult to get a cat regulated with NPH insulins like the Humulin N you used for your cat, chances of getting a cat diet controlled are extremely low with the NPH insulins. The only thing they have going for them is the cheap cost.

Prozinc, Lantus, Levimir are the best insulins for cats. Vetsulin/Caninsulin is often prescribed by vets in Europe (and some vets in the US and Canada) and is much better than the NPH insulins for cats.

Maybe you can show us a spreadsheet for your cat, and we can see how well your cat is doing on the NPH insulin.

 

[Sam & Esse]

Yes he is no one gets that reference usually! We chose two names Cait was my suggestion if it was a girl and wife went with Tidus for boy. Not my favorite character from FF but it also means sun in Japanese so that fits lol.

Well over a decade ago I made a Yuna costume for my mom. She wore it to the Halloween Treat at California Adventure -- and she was adorable. Possibly the oldest Yuna cosplayer around, but she lit up when people kept wanting pictures with her.

But yeah I'm debating on giving him a half injection tonight since I can't read his blood yet. 1.0 twice a day wouldn't scare me so much if I had the alphatrak. But it's coming in the mail.

I hope Tidus had a nice, quiet night I agree that the 1u will be a lot easier to shoot once you have the AT2 for peace of mind. I don't know if you plan on using the forum for advice; if you are, I can post a link on how to set up a spread sheet. If not, that's okay, too Although the spread sheet is a great tool for personal use as well.

 

[Tidus]

Well over a decade ago I made a Yuna costume for my mom. She wore it to the Halloween Treat at California Adventure -- and she was adorable. Possibly the oldest Yuna cosplayer around, but she lit up when people kept wanting pictures with her.

I hope Tidus had a nice, quiet night I agree that the 1u will be a lot easier to shoot once you have the AT2 for peace of mind. I don't know if you plan on using the forum for advice; if you are, I can post a link on how to set up a spread sheet. If not, that's okay, too Although the spread sheet is a great tool for personal use as well.

That's awesome! I went as Geralt once but that was it. It's a tough hobby. Fun but lot of work, used green Gatorade for his potions.

He seemed to have a pretty okay night. Hungry in the morning, not acting out of the ordinary so he's handling things well. The first injection was nerve wrecking. To the point I looked up alternatives... I heard they're developing a pill that could get rid of injections someday, coated with a microneedle or something that releases the insulin in the stomach wall where there's no pain nerves so won't feel a thing. If that ends up working and they make that, I'll be holding out hope for a pet version. Would make life so much easier for everyone.

 

[zzyzzx]

@zzyzzx the NPH insulins are not recommended for cats. They do not last long enough, 6-8 hours

My personal experience suggests otherwise. How much experience do you have giving a cat NPH insulin?

 

[Deb & Wink]

3 different cats, different periods of time.

Not simply my personal experience saying NPH insulins don't usually last long in a diabetic CAT.
(2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats recommends against using NPH in cats.
See Table 1 page 5
See page 6 paragraph 4:

4.NPH(U-100 human recombinant; Neutral ProtamineHagedorn, Humulin N, Lilly or Novulin N, Novo Nordisk)is an intermediate-acting insulin that is used in dogs. The TaskForce does not recommend use of this insulin in cats due to its short duration of action. The duration of action of NPH indogs is often,12 hr. Some dogs can have postprandial hyper-glycemia when treated with this insulin.15A combination formof NPH plus regular insulin (70 NPH/30 Regular) is availablethat may be suitable if the dog has an appropriate duration ofaction (8–12 hr) with an early nadir or postprandial BG spike.Some clinicians use this product in dogs who develop post-prandial hyperglycemia when being treated with NPH.

"2015 ISFM Concensus Guidelines on the Practical Management of Diabetes Mellitus in Cats" never even mentions NPH insulins.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1098612x15571880

If the NPH insulins are working in your cat that's great! Not many cats obtain 12 hour control of the BG levels when on an NPH insulin. The NPH insulins are cheap. But there are much better insulins for most cats. And those are the ones we recommend to new members.

 

[Deb & Wink]

@zzyzzx Maybe you could set up a spreadsheet, so we can see the BG readings and control your cat got while on the NPH insulin.

We'd love to see the 6 years worth of spreadsheet data you have for your cat.

How many times has your cat been in remission?

 

[Juls and Billy]

My personal experience suggests otherwise. How much experience do you have giving a cat NPH insulin?

It's not only Deb's experience. There has been a lot of research done on what types of insulins work best for feline diabetes. Here's a link to one such article that states NPH is not recommended for cats because of it not being long lasting enough. There's quite a bit of research that suggests cats have a higher chance of remission on longer lasting insulins such as Lantus and Prozinc.

 

[toomanycats]

Insulin (Lantus) for 1 Lantus pen = $70ish
Syringes u100, 100 count = these were not too expensive, but I can't remember how much -- Walgreens brand

Blood & Urine work + vet check + 24 cans of DM food that we moved off of + an antibiotic = well, the initial visit was $567. Then, urine-recheck & repeat fructosamine test = $144.... then a urine culture for $188, then an antibiotic even though the culture grew NOTHING for $57, and I should've turned that down honestly now that I've read more about overprescription of antibiotics for urinary inflammation.

And now I need to call again bc he's losing hair on his ears, shaking his head/scratching them... also he's supposed to have another urine re-check next Monday, but I'm honestly thinking of cancelling it.

 

[zzyzzx]

It's not only Deb's experience. There has been a lot of research done on what types of insulins work best for feline diabetes. Here's a link to one such article that states NPH is not recommended for cats because of it not being long lasting enough. There's quite a bit of research that suggests cats have a higher chance of remission on longer lasting insulins such as Lantus and Prozinc.

OK, so you have ZERO personal experience with NPH insulin. Why don't you answer my question. I can say from personal experience when my cat gets too much insulin, it's only a problem AFTER that 6-8 hours that you say it lasts. You are only quoting things from the internet written by people with a financial interest in you paying way too much for meds. I have been using NPH insulin for more than 6 years now, and it actually works way better than Prozinc at small fraction of the price. I also know a human that uses it as well with outstanding results as well.

One big difference between NPH and Prozinc, besides $25/bottle for NPH vs $130/ bottle for Prozinc is that the Prozinc bottle effectiveness drops off after a month of using it. You either have use more of it, or get a new bottle. With the NPH insulin, I can use the same bottle for several months (more than 6 months) and it still works great.

Also in my family you either have diabetes, or will, so I have at least some personal experience with it going back to 1980.

If you want to waste your money on overpriced stuff, that's your business. But the OP was asking advise on doing things on an more economical way, and I was actually answering their question and giving them an option.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Be kind and courteous to each other, please.

@zzyzzx Some cats can get a longer duration from the NPH type insulins. Perhaps your cat is one of them. A good way to show that to other members, is to create a spreadsheet for your cat. We'd love to see a spreadsheet for a cat on NPH insulin and doing well on that insulin.

There are people here that have personal experience with using NPH insulin in cats.
Or have human family members that have used the NPH insulins.
It's not only me. There are others.

Cost of insulin should not be the only factor in making a choice of insulin for a cat.
It's also how well a cat can do when they are on a particular insulin.
No one insulin works for every cat, no one insulin works for every set of circumstances. We realize that and suggest other options.

ECID Every Cat is Different. ECID Every Caregiver is Different.

I actually wish a recent member had gone and purchased some NPH insulin, when her other insulin ran out. Then her cat might not have ended up in DKA.

One big difference between NPH and Prozinc, besides $25/bottle for NPH vs $130/ bottle for Prozinc is that the Prozinc bottle effectiveness drops off after a month of using it.

Not true, the effectiveness of Prozinc is due more to proper handling and storage procedures than anything else. Including how well it is mixed each time before withdrawal with the insulin syringe, properly protecting it from light, keeping it refrigerated, etc.

And we know that Chewy.com has Prozinc for less. $106.29 one time purchase, $100.98 with autoship. I'm sure there are probably other places to purchase Prozinc at lower costs than your vet. The internet is a wonderful shopping opportunity to find that type of information.

Even NPH insulins are not good forever. In fact they are supposed to be thrown away after 42 days, 6 weeks.

"Keep vials away from direct heat or light. Throw away an opened vial after 6 weeks (42 days) of use, even if there is insulin left in the vial. Unopened vials can be used until the expiration date on the Novolin N label, if the medicine has been stored in a refrigerator." https://www.drugs.com/pro/novolin-n.html

Yes, your cat may be still getting some lower blood glucose readings long after that normal 6-8 hour duration point. That is great if that is happening. Again, we have no way of seeing that until you create a spreadsheet and share it with us.

We'd love to see that data. Won't you share that with us? Please?

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

I have not read every post but in general;
Some large veterinarian clinics have a business manager that sets prices your friendly vet may not be aware of.
The two I use are paying ever increasing rents and one is being squeezed out of business because a big condo corp. wants the land.
You have the right to ask what every test is for, is it absolutely needed and can it be put off temporarily.
Never fall for vague terms like a "Wellness test" which could mean almost anything.
Unlike any other business guilt can play a big part in caring for a pet. Money and love are not the same thing.
I've learned some of these lessons the hard way. We were pressured into getting a spinal tap and an MRI and afterwards no one had a clue what was wrong.